Cream

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,316
That doesn't make this a hate crime or racially motivated.

Like, no one is arguing privilege doesn't exist.
I'm arguing against all the deflective bullshit in this thread. There's a lot of people very sure that nothing shows it's racially motivated, when the simply act of violently beating a black woman within an inch of her life in america, is already plenty of evidence that it could be racially motivated, and people need to understand that.

But that specific person I was replying to actually WAS arguing that such a privilege doesn't exist.
 

Doom_Bringer

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,181
A man shouldn't be hitting a woman in this day and age. It is just completely wrong. Also he is the manager, what the heck kind of example is he setting?
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,210
Guess I'm dumb too. What a horrible written news article to jump to the conclusion of racism. I'm not watching video cuz I don't need to see someone beat down. Unless he's saying something racist you don't get to assume it's a race issue as much as everyone wants it to be.
The truth is that black people are more quickly responded to with violence than others. If you want to ignore that unless you have somebody dropping n-bombs, then you're just choosing to ignore this reality.
 

ishan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,192
gonna agree with some of the posters saying there isnt a clear racist element. So I guess per op im dumb. But I am also going to agree with posters saying this guy needs to get checked out he went from 1 to 100 in no time and kept blaming her. As some said might have some abuse history. Seems to have rage issues.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,249
I'm arguing against all the deflective bullshit in this thread. There's a lot of people very sure that nothing shows it's racially motivated, when the simply act of violently beating a black woman within an inch of her life in america, is already plenty of evidence that it could be racially motivated, and people need to understand that.

But that specific person I was replying to actually WAS arguing that such a privilege doesn't exist.
It can easily be argued his repetitive, "I said please" is more anger / snapping than racism.

Just because a mintority is beaten doesn't mean it's motivated by a degree of hate.

Like, you can't say, "he wouldn't have done this if she was white" because that didn't happen.

The article, to me, seems more focused on creating a discussion outside of her attack.
 

Cream

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,316
It can easily be argued his repetitive, "I said please" is more anger / snapping than racism.

Just because a mintority is beaten doesn't mean it's motivated by a degree of hate.

Like, you can't say, "he wouldn't have done this if she was white" because that didn't happen.

The article, to me, seems more focused on creating a discussion outside of her attack.
Just like I have no problem saying when the police beat or kill an innocent black person, I have no problem saying it here. This was probably at least somewhat racially motivated.
 

CannonballB

Member
Oct 27, 2017
364
Pahonix
A man shouldn't be hitting a woman in this day and age. It is just completely wrong. Also he is the manager, what the heck kind of example is he setting?

A person shouldn't be hitting a person in this day and age, period.

Also agree that I didn't see anything racially motivating. In fact, I have nothing to agree with that it had any motivation other than "lady won't leave my store" strictly based on the video. I agree there could be a lot more going on here that I/we don't see beforehand.

One question I have is, what's the race of the manager? He appeared to be middle-eastern to me, based on voice. If that's the case, could it be both racially and gender motivated?
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,437
New York
It can easily be argued his repetitive, "I said please" is more anger / snapping than racism.

Just because a mintority is beaten doesn't mean it's motivated by a degree of hate.

Like, you can't say, "he wouldn't have done this if she was white" because that didn't happen.

The article, to me, seems more focused on creating a discussion outside of her attack.

Yea, the discussion is about how some motherfuckers tend to think it's acceptable to put their hands on black people, women particularly. Can't ignore that angle or say it's wrong to have the discussion because such racial violence has been going on for centuries.

You're asking folks to view this as an isolated incident. It kinda isn't. There's centuries of social conditioning that says "Blacks are less than dirt. They are scum. And it's ok to treat them harshly because they deserve it." Which leads to some, not all, folks going 0-100 real quick on a black person.

Holy shit racism and racial bias really is quantum locked.

One question I have is, what's the race of the manager? He appeared to be middle-eastern to me, based on voice. If that's the case, could it be both racially and gender motivated?

Plenty of non-White minorities have nothing but contempt and hostility towards Black people.
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,797
I'm arguing against all the deflective bullshit in this thread. There's a lot of people very sure that nothing shows it's racially motivated, when the simply act of violently beating a black woman within an inch of her life in america, is already plenty of evidence that it could be racially motivated, and people need to understand that.

But that specific person I was replying to actually WAS arguing that such a privilege doesn't exist.

The evidence you provided to me was two articles surrounding domestic violence.

No one is disputing issues like that. That isn't even the conversation we're having here.

What I was disputing was the assertion that the victim was attacked as she was because of her race, and merely being white would have acted as a deterrent to a deranged fucker like the arsehole in the story.

I don't agree with that because you see daily stories about horrific acts of violence carried out against all women.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,249
Just like I have no problem saying when the police beat or kill an innocent black person, I have no problem saying it here. This was probably at least somewhat racially motivated.
Then what discussion are you looking to have? All actions and words are filtered through a social net, so every action with a person will have a degree of hate or negative perception. Should the idea be to claim racially motivated for all acts, then? Where is the cut off or is there even one?
 

Doom_Bringer

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,181
A person shouldn't be hitting a person in this day and age, period.

Also agree that I didn't see anything racially motivating. In fact, I have nothing to agree with that it had any motivation other than "lady won't leave my store" strictly based on the video. I agree there could be a lot more going on here that I/we don't see beforehand.

One question I have is, what's the race of the manager? He appeared to be middle-eastern to me, based on voice. If that's the case, could it be both racially and gender motivated?

Men and boys getting into stupid fights is understandable due to testosterone, developing brains etc etc. But taking your anger out on a woman or girl is just completely wrong.
 

Cream

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,316
The evidence you provided to me was two articles surrounding domestic violence.

No one is disputing issues like that. That isn't even the conversation we're having here.

What I was disputing was the assertion that the victim was attacked as she was because of her race, and merely being white would have acted as a deterrent to a deranged fucker like the arsehole in the story.

I don't agree with that because you see daily stories about horrific acts of violence carried out against all women.
The argument is that it would be MUCH MORE of a deterrent if she was a white woman, which is true. Not that it would be a COMPLETE deterrent.
 

Cream

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,316
Then what discussion are you looking to have? All actions and words are filtered through a social net, so every action with a person will have a degree of hate or negative perception. Should the idea be to claim racially motivated for all acts, then? Where is the cut off or is there even one?
Okay well maybe now you're starting to understand the mental dilemma almost all black people are going through every single day. Do you think we want to think every bad thing someone does to us is racial motivated? Of course we don't, but we usually think it is, because it so OFTEN is. We don't really have a choice. We still respond case by case like all people do it, but when 99% of the cases usually go a certain way, it starts to color your judgement, and you become jaded. That's just reality.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,249
Okay well maybe now you're starting to understand the mental dilemma almost all black people are going through every single day. Do you think we want to think every bad thing someone does to us is racial motivated? Of course we don't, but we usually think it is, because it so OFTEN is. We don't really have a choice. We still respond case by case like all people do it, but when 99% of the cases usually go a certain way, it starts to color your judgement, and you become jaded. That's just reality.
That's not an answer to my question.
 

Deleted member 8001

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,440
Doesn't have to be racism per se, just racial bias. Fact is

Notice how folks keep saying "We don't know what lead to this"? Protip: It's irrelevant. Unless of course you think he's justified based on what happened prior to filming?

She could have shit on the floor and called his mother rude names nothing justifies slamming an unarmed woman's head on the fucking floor like that.



And fuckers will come out of the woodworks to defend this shit. That's what gets me.
No, I don't think he's justified in violence obviously. What I do think is that there can be reasons outside of race judging by what we know in the video of why he would've attacked her.

-He's asking her to leave the store he's managing and she is refusing.
-She might be drunk and alcoholics tend to get under the skin of others.
-She proceeds to advance into the store despite his constant pleas and that is the literal moment where his actions change.

Because his actions before hand were merely telling her to leave and he didn't instantly go straight into violence, I think it's very reasonable to assume he snapped and has an anger problem. I mean he slammed her head in front of his own customers, inside the business with someone recording. Why would he do that, he's not a police officer, he has everything to lose by doing that. The reason that appears to be is that he snapped.
 

foggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,972
My immediate read is that he has serious anger issues and totally snapped. Wouldn't be shocked at all if he was racist but I would probably want to see coded language or see whatever motivated this to begin with to get to that point.

Only thing I can say in his defense is it didn't escalate until she came after the person recording, but it certainly didn't justify the headbutt and slamming. Dude needs serious court-mandated help.
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,437
New York
No, I don't think he's justified in violence obviously. What I do think is that there can be reasons outside of race judging by what we know in the video of why he would've attacked her.

-He's asking her to leave the store he's managing and she is refusing.
-She might be drunk and alcoholics tend to get under the skin of others.
-She proceeds to advance into the store despite his constant pleas and that is the literal moment where his actions change.

Because his actions before hand were merely telling her to leave and he didn't instantly go straight into violence, I think it's very reasonable to assume he snapped and has an anger problem. I mean he slammed her head in front of his own customers, inside the business with someone recording. Why would he do that, he's not a police officer, he has everything to lose by doing that. The reason that appears to be is that he snapped.

Of course there "can" be reasons beyond race. But let's not pretend there isn't a centuries old precedent in the US that outright condones violence against Black people when they get "uppity". How many studies gotta be done to show that Black people get harsher sentences in jail, harsher charges from cops, quicker to be suspended/expelled in fucking elementary school. Then we get eyerolls and sighs when we mention that MAYBE the woman being black might just have something to do with why dude was so quick to engage in violence?

Dude needs serious court-mandated help.

Dude needs the same felony assault charge and time in jail he'd get if he were a black man beating the fucking shit out of a white woman like that.


It is, which is why it was immediately ignored. 2018. People honestly don't give much of a shit.

Assume the best and we're called naive, assume the worst and we're called paranoid

I assumed the best once, I got my nigga-wake-up-call though.
 

Deleted member 19844

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,500
United States
Okay well maybe now you're starting to understand the mental dilemma almost all black people are going through every single day. Do you think we want to think every bad thing someone does to us is racial motivated? Of course we don't, but we usually think it is, because it so OFTEN is. We don't really have a choice. We still respond case by case like all people do it, but when 99% of the cases usually go a certain way, it starts to color your judgement, and you become jaded. That's just reality.
This is spot on.
 

Deleted member 8001

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,440
Of course there "can" be reasons beyond race. But let's not pretend there isn't a centuries old precedent in the US that outright condones violence against Black people when they get "uppity". How many studies gotta be done to show that Black people get harsher sentences in jail, harsher charges from cops, quicker to be suspended/expelled in fucking elementary school. Then we get eyerolls and sighs when we mention that MAYBE the woman being black might just have something to do with why dude was so quick to engage in violence?
I'm not pretending, I'm fully aware of all the racism and bigotry black people deal with and how white people get away with it with clever wording and deception. That said, I think in this very scenario it seems incredibly unlikely this was fueled by her race.

He beat her cause she was wouldn't leave and he has severe issues, that's what I honestly believe here.
 

Cream

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,316
That said, I think in this very scenario it seems incredibly unlikely this was fueled by her race.

HOW. HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU POSSIBLY BELIEVE THIS?

"incredibly unlikely"?! Are you fucking kidding me? How the FUCK can you pretend to be aware of what we go through every day and still say this ignorant garbage?
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,437
New York
Prison rehabilitation is part of the implication.

Not in reality. Maybe if you can go to a nice Affluenza treatment center but not at Rikers.

I'm not pretending, I'm fully aware of all the racism and bigotry black people deal with and how white people get away with it with clever wording and deception. That said, I think in this very scenario it seems incredibly unlikely this was fueled by her race.

He beat her cause she was wouldn't leave and he has severe issues, that's what I honestly believe here.

Oh for sure that's what precipitated the assault: Her refusal to leave. What I'm saying is it's not without merit to ask openly would dude have been so quick to engage in violence if she didn't have the skin color she did or wasn't a woman. That's all.

I don't really agree with the "has severe issues" shit. I bet you money his "severe issues" wouldn't have resulted in him putting hands on a large black man in the same exact situation. I've witnessed too many times when the dynamic changes to a physically imposing person how dudes like that magically find their inside voice and take a few steps back. His "severe issues" would have magically been controlled. Funny how that works.

I could ask you the same thing for your perception on this matter.

"No, U!"
 

Cream

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,316
User has been banned for one month for repeatedly attacking other users and previous warnings and bans for same offense.
I could ask you the same thing for your perception on this matter.
Now I know you are full of such absolutely bullshit.

It has already been explained NUMEROUS TIMES on even THIS FUCKING PAGE.

WHY THE FUCK do you THINK a black person might think something like this is likely racial motivated?! Yeah, you COULD ask me that. Just like OTHER people already have, and has been ANSWERED. MANY TIMES.

You CLAIM to understand what black people go through every day, so you asking me that would be INCREDIBLY IGNORANT AND DISINGENUOUS.

So now, that it has been COMPLETELY answered where my belief comes from, could you PLEASE explain to me why you think it's "incredibly unlikely" this is racially motivated?
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,797
HOW. HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU POSSIBLY BELIEVE THIS?

"incredibly unlikely"?! Are you fucking kidding me? How the FUCK can you pretend to be aware of what we go through every day and still say this ignorant garbage?

Violence against minorities is a real problem, and I don't think anyone in this thread is disputing that.

What people are disputing is the assertions in this thread that it was racially motivated, despite there being no evidence to support said claim.

That is NOT diluting the abhorrent nature of this attack. I personally disagree with anyone questioning the wider context of what may have caused it (its irrelevant if we're dealing with the facts of what happened). As stated, I do take issue with the claims that it was a) racially motivated and b) a white woman would be subject to lesser violence from an unhinged and abusive male attacker in this context.
 

Cream

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,316
If it is difficult then why the certainty here?
Who said I was certain? I'm just pretty sure. And I've already explained it numerous times. When 99% of situations are at least somewhat racially motivated, it makes you jaded, and you tend to be able to guess how these things come about. We have 400+ years of evidence to back us up. But it's still difficult because no one wants to think everything bad that ever happens to a black person is because of racism. This guy just being crazy and angry, and he would have done this same thing to any woman of any color would be "better", as horrible as that sounds.
 

Deleted member 11157

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,880
Oh for sure that's what precipitated the assault: Her refusal to leave. What I'm saying is it's not without merit to ask openly would dude have been so quick to engage in violence if she didn't have the skin color she did or wasn't a woman. That's all.

I don't really agree with the "has severe issues" shit. I bet you money his "severe issues" wouldn't have resulted in him putting hands on a large black man in the same exact situation. I've witnessed too many times when the dynamic changes to a physically imposing person how dudes like that magically find their inside voice and take a few steps back.

"No, U!"
While I don't believe from just the video that race is the primary factor, though I'm leaning it to be a factor, you make a really good point with the bolded. I started thinking of all the racist white women videos that have cropped up in the past two(?) years. None of those racists have been body slammed for it, though they sure as heck deserve it.
 

Futureman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,473
I live in Pittsburgh and have never been to this place. Always looked like a shitty hole in the wall place anyways.

Hopefully this guy goes to jail and if he's the owner the place should be shut down.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,481

I don't appreciate being called dumb


You can label me dumb as well then.

So I guess per op im dumb.

My ignore list thanks you all for self-identifying. I haven't the time or energy so I genuinely appreciate you all letting me know not to bother engaging you in later topics.
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,437
New York
As stated, I do take issue with the claims that it was a) racially motivated and b) a white woman would be subject to lesser violence from an unhinged and abusive male attacker in this context.

Except this is a fact. There are studies. Feel free to go look em up. White women are less likely to be subject to violence in nearly all contexts in America. That's just a fact. An inconvenient one for sure, but one nonetheless. So given that reality it's definitely a given that due to our history we (black people and those that "get" it) gonna look at situations like this with a bit of side-eye and skepticism. And as always some of our "allies" will say "No, unless you're being called a nigger no racism has occurred." and nothing changes.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,249
Who said I was certain? I'm just pretty sure. And I've already explained it numerous times. When 99% of situations are at least somewhat racially motivated, it makes you jaded, and you tend to be able to guess how these things come about. We have 400+ years of evidence to back us up. But it's still difficult because no one wants to think everything bad that ever happens to a black person is because of racism. This guy just being crazy and angry, and he would have done this same thing to any woman of any color would be "better", as horrible as that sounds.

You did write this to another person who said it was unlikely it was racially motivated.

HOW. HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU POSSIBLY BELIEVE THIS?

"incredibly unlikely"?! Are you fucking kidding me? How the FUCK can you pretend to be aware of what we go through every day and still say this ignorant garbage?
 

Aldi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,637
United Kingdom
I have been in many situation when working with the public far worse than this and it didn't even cross my mind to attack anyone. Guy is crazy and needs locking up. He's a danger to himself and everyone around him.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,956
Saying race matters here is completely different to saying that race was a motivator behind the attack. Nobody here knows why this man attacked her and there's just not enough evidence to make any sort of conclusion. Whether you think it would've been more or less likely is up to you, but there's absolutely no reason at this point to say he did this *because* she was either black or a woman, which is what the link in the OP is claiming.

http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...gth_speed_pain_tolerance_and_the_magical.html

We actually have reasonable cause to believe that white people would do worse to black people physically than other white people

You did write this to another person who said it was unlikely it was racially motivated.

Cream responded to a post that seemed to be certain that it wasn't racially motivated.
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,437
New York
this is fucking ridiculous. you hit a man expect to be hit back. no such thing as no retaliation. MAD.

There is a concept of proportionality. On average the physical disparity in strength is going to be pretty large between a man and a woman. So while it might suck to get slapped or shoved it'd be disproportionate to beat the ever living shit out of someone over that. And I mean I've been punched in my back on a crowded subway by a young woman who was upset she couldn't physically walk through me and my response wasn't to slam her head into the fucking ground just cause "retaliation". To be fair the concept of disproportionate response gets applied regardless of gender. I can't kick a guy in the head just cause he slapped me.

Now if someone's coming with a lethal weapon then yea, do what you have to in order to survive. Regardless of who's wielding the weapon.

Regardless of the debate on race everyone in this thread seems to agree that dudes actions were entirely unjustified and he should be held legally responsible.
 

Cream

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,316
There's a lot of data demonstrating people's willingness to do more harm to black people than white people because they believe black people can take it, so there is absolutely more likely that this is racially motivated than it is not.
The person you are quoting has already said that they understand the realities of racism for black people in America, so it's very odd that they would make this statement, and that you would have to respond with this to educate them about this reality that they claim to understand. And even then, I also already said exactly what you just said to them before they made that statement.

Hence my frustration. Meanwhile Subpar Spatula isn't even reading the things I say correctly.