• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,153
I absolutely loved the colour elevator but working out that solution was a little weird for me and I imagine anyone with certain types of colour-blindness will just be screwed there, in the same way certain puzzles are locked out to deaf or hard-of-hearing people.
They would be, but it comes down to the notion that you don't NEED to do those things to finish the game, and as much as it sucks for people that can't interact with those puzzles, the game would be worse off if it didn't explore those ideas. There's simply no way to make things like sound and color work for those that aren't capable of discerning them.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
An astute kotaku writer put it best: "a metroidvania where the thing that powers up is your brain."
Rain World is similiar to this, in that it's a metroidvania where the means to progress is gaining knowledge of how the ecosystem and species work and getting better at platforming. You dont actually unlock anything

Also Toki Tori 2 in how you progress through its interconnected world by understanding the mechanics and then applying that knowledge
 
Last edited:

chrominance

Sky Van Gogh
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,655
They would be, but it comes down to the notion that you don't NEED to do those things to finish the game, and as much as it sucks for people that can't interact with those puzzles, the game would be worse off if it didn't explore those ideas. There's simply no way to make things like sound and color work for those that aren't capable of discerning them.

Oh, yes, I think Blow said as much in that hour-long sit-down he had with Jeff and Brad from Giant Bomb: that he didn't want to just drop those puzzle concepts because of accessibility but also didn't want them to block people's progress because of something those people couldn't control. I don't know that he completely achieved that, since

you still need to finish everything for the true ending

but yeah, I think for the most part he did the right thing here.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
Across two systems, I never did figure out to do those puzzles in the desert temple near the start of the game. Playing on PS4, I stood in the right spot and it finally clicked. Cant believe I never noticed that before
 

Adryuu

Master of the Wind
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,607
Oh, it's OK.

I got 6 lasers up without help/cheating. I think can confidently say I'm "not bad".

But yeah, these Tetris puzzles... they're something else.

Edit: And for some reason I'm absolutely dreading going back to the flower greenhouse because of that damn elevator. Something tells me the solution to it it's going to be a little too clever bordering on pure evil.

The elevator really is no big deal. I liked it because it made you think outside the panels, or beyond. Like some others. The game is so good because it doesn't rely only on the panels and their mechanics, most of the things that are represented there have a meaning, even if it's only meant to inspire and may not say anything to you (like all the statues etc). But for the actual puzzles, it's not always ONLY panels and that's awesome.

Edit: I'm actually NOT talking about the monoliths. I'll say it again: fuck the monoliths. It's cool they are there and I enjoyed solving many of their parts, but to me it's crazy thinking of solving EVERY one of them or even most.

On the other hand, having to think about the solution for the elevator made my brain hurt a little. And I think it's the easiest out of some similar instances (if I remember right the solution for some shit in the town and/out swamp).

A clue for the elevator, that may be too obvious and not really a clue but open at your own discretion:
see that each floor has a different color. That's the obvious part. Now find the way to interact with the panel so you pick the right floor.

Although I don't remember everything about that puzzle, I think I remember quite well something I had to do, as well as in other situations, and that's very cool. Also probably each player goes through a particular way and order and workflow until finding the solutions and the fact that it still works for everyone who perseveres at it is amazing, too, regardless of way of thinking or the order of learning the game.

It's also interesting to learn about what results easier for some while harder for others. :)
 

Emmz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
404
I don't believe I have ever played anything that was more thoughtful than The Witness. Not a single pixel in that game seems superfluous. Designed by insane people. I wish I could discover it all anew.

Yep. It's very rare for me to have that feeling about a game. I wish I could forget it all and play it over again. Maybe some day in many years I can achieve something like it.
 
Jan 11, 2018
9,654
This was one of my favorite games in a long time, easily a top 3 puzzle game of all time. One day I spent 14 hours playing it. I dreamt of lines that night needless to say.
 

CHC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,247
Across two systems, I never did figure out to do those puzzles in the desert temple near the start of the game. Playing on PS4, I stood in the right spot and it finally clicked. Cant believe I never noticed that before

It's funny, when I first played the game I noticed the "detail" on the panels almost immediately, but I couldn't imagine that they were related to the solution. I was like, "oh what a cool detail, but the solution has to do with their relative positions or shadows or angles or something else!" It's so cool the way the game literally draws on everything in environment for its solutions, but never becomes too esoteric. It's simultaneously never as complicated OR as simple as you think it's going to be. Such a great game.
 

Bamboo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
891
That's it. That's the "inconsistency".
Haha, glad someone already pointed it out. The game is super consistent. Whenever I was stuck, I always blamed me first and as it turned out, I was always at fault.
Wait wait, are there three endings?

I think I've done the normal ending:
Out in the water where the flying pod just takes you around and back to the starting hallway then fades into black.
And the "60 second secret ending":
Use the sun on the first gate to unlock the hotel and walk until you see the video of the guy.
But now I'm seeing people in this thread talking about "the true ending", "the challenge", and
something about doing that first gate differently (something with a manuscript and triangles)?
No, there are the two ending-like sequences that you've described in your spoilers 1 + 2. The challenge
is just an achivement that gives you access/the code to one of the videos in the video room under the village.
Concerning your third spoiler:
The triangle/manuscript thing you described is the code to close the gate in the starting area again, so you get access to the hotel, without needing to restart the game and losing all progress. I forgot where I found the "code", but it defenitely wasn't from the "challenge"
 

Adryuu

Master of the Wind
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,607
Concerning your third spoiler:
The triangle/manuscript thing you described is the code to close the gate in the starting area again, so you get access to the hotel, without needing to restart the game and losing all progress. I forgot where I found the "code", but it defenitely wasn't from the "challenge"

Nope and I was disappointed by the reward for doing that, other than it being the trophy I needed for the platinum (and that was little before I ultimately put the game down).

(all in this spoiler is iirc). In a tunnel in the area that connects to the challenge cave and to the videos chamber. One door is locked from the other side but you can see it as soon as you discover the videos chamber but can only wonder where the hell it would lead to.

Also, it's designed like that so you arrive at the final zone, with all lasers, discover the bonus area, and now that you're full of knowledge and presumably have discovered the monoliths and shit, you recognize the pattern in the first door, enter the new found code, and it closing again is already a clue for you to do something with it, so you can discover the so called hotel (to me it's the credits area). The game calls itself over and you can do the challenge if you desire.

I think that's neat design.
 
OP
OP
NO!R

NO!R

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,742
I got that soon. Tetris blocks have WAY more annoying gimmicks than that.

Just
all the Tetris symbols have to be enclosed in the"selected" area you make, then they can be in whatever order, be it flipped or not depending on some other thing you may not know yet. But for now it's just the area you draw has to be equivalent to an area the sum of all symbols that are INSIDE of it. And you can't leave symbols outside an area (I assume you've learned already there's a difference between drawn areas and left outside areas, if that naming makes sense, of course).

But that's EASY, believe me. Just wait until you get more combined things outside the Tetris symbols. Or just the other Tetris symbols... mwahaha!

Tetris symbols may be both my favourite and my most hated or the ones that cost me the most. There are some of them that drove me mad though and I think some even that I didn't fully understand until way later after having completed it, by seeing new things afterwards.

I made it to the second drained stairwell/aquarium place in the swamp.

The part dealing with the hollow blue squares.

Pretty neat.

I've worked out some solutions just by adding and subtracting the total number of squares in Tetris pieces out of the number of squares in a panel.

For some of the bigger panels with more than 3 or 4 Tetris pieces it's been curious partially finding an arrangement for the pieces, then partly drawing the line on the fly and realizing that you've already excluded the number of squares left from subtracting and boom - it was right. Leaving me now to retroactively figure out the rest of that arrangement and why it worked.

So, it's like, scientific method for most and, as the late Bob Ross used to say, "happy accidents" for others.
 

Adryuu

Master of the Wind
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,607
Agreed on the happy accidents. The problem is when you can't really figure out why it worked, which indeed happened to me in some instance of the puzzles you're doing right now, or probably in some related but more complicated later. Then I did some other that I was very sure why it worked and then went back and forth... lol.
 

jts

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,018
Without having read to much of the thread to not get spoiled, is this game good on iOS? Or better to get in another platform?
 

Easy_G

Member
Dec 11, 2017
1,671
California
I just started up this game again after beating it two years ago. It's so amazing. The puzzles are fantastic, but I really fell for the atmosphere and "story." I imagine it could feel pretentious, but it doesn't come across that way to me, and it actually makes me think. It's nice to have a game with messages about science, religion, being, meditation, etc., without there being a forced conclusion. The game is just trying to force you to think, whether it be puzzles or existentialism.

Also, it's absolutely beautiful. I really need to take some of my screenshots off of my PS4 and same then in the screenshot thread.
 

Ashler

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,156
Without having read to much of the thread to not get spoiled, is this game good on iOS? Or better to get in another platform?

Graphics and gameplay suffer a bit on iOS. If you have the possibility of playing it on either on a console (PS4 & Xbox One) or a similarly spec'ed PC, I'd strongly recommend it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,293
Edit: I'm actually NOT talking about the monoliths. I'll say it again: fuck the monoliths. It's cool they are there and I enjoyed solving many of their parts, but to me it's crazy thinking of solving EVERY one of them or even most.

Major spoiler about the monoliths:
They actually show you the direction of every environmental puzzle in the game. Its not a wild goose-chase at all and some of them are actually the best puzzles in the game. I solved all of them though I did cheat my way through maybe two or three in total. I regret doing that :P
 

Adryuu

Master of the Wind
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,607
Major spoiler about the monoliths:
They actually show you the direction of every environmental puzzle in the game. Its not a wild goose-chase at all and some of them are actually the best puzzles in the game. I solved all of them though I did cheat my way through maybe two or three in total. I regret doing that :P

I may be too silly for those then. I know about
them having the shape of the actual solution and then it lits when you complete it, if that's what you mean by the "direction", or maybe you mean that the side of the monolith that contains the shape points into its general direction (which if true I hadn't noticed I guess),
but even then I couldn't solve many. I did some which requiered more special things though like one that
had you travelling by boat while you drew the line, and had to hang on to the line drawing itself while sailing to complete the pattern :)
, and it was fine while it lasted. There are probably some more smart ones and even smarter than what I solved, but I didn't feel any urge to find AND solve them. Maybe I will if/when I replay this (which would be, ideally, when I've got access to a nice VR version of it, no hurry).
 

Bamboo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
891
I may be too silly for those then. I know about
them having the shape of the actual solution and then it lits when you complete it, if that's what you mean by the "direction", or maybe you mean that the side of the monolith that contains the shape points into its general direction (which if true I hadn't noticed I guess),
but even then I couldn't solve many. I did some which requiered more special things though like one that
had you travelling by boat while you drew the line, and had to hang on to the line drawing itself while sailing to complete the pattern :)
, and it was fine while it lasted. There are probably some more smart ones and even smarter than what I solved, but I didn't feel any urge to find AND solve them. Maybe I will if/when I replay this (which would be, ideally, when I've got access to a nice VR version of it, no hurry).
It's both the shape of the solutions and you can find the pattern in the general direction of the side on which it appears on the monolith. Some of them are really cleverly hidden. Often you find parts of a pattern, but you have to achieve very specific circumstances to complete it. That was fun for the most part, but some of them were just too finicky. I'd still encourage you to look out for some more than what you've solved so far. At some point you get rather good at spotting those patterns, just like you learn all the other mechanics of the game bit by bit.
 
Dec 6, 2017
11,001
US
I've been wanting to check this game out but firmly believe it'll plunge me into some existential drama and self-loathing fits only rivaled by a Wagner opera.
 

Elodes

Looks to the Moon
Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,234
The Netherlands
Rain World is similiar to this, in that it's a metroidvania where the means to progress is gaining knowledge of how the ecosystem and species work and getting better at platforming. You dont actually unlock anythjng

Also Toki Tori 2 is how you progress through its interconnected world by understanding the mechanics and then applying that knowledge

Yessss. Amazing design. Do you know more games that work this way?
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,293
I may be too silly for those then. I know about
them having the shape of the actual solution and then it lits when you complete it, if that's what you mean by the "direction", or maybe you mean that the side of the monolith that contains the shape points into its general direction (which if true I hadn't noticed I guess),
but even then I couldn't solve many. I did some which requiered more special things though like one that
had you travelling by boat while you drew the line, and had to hang on to the line drawing itself while sailing to complete the pattern :)
, and it was fine while it lasted. There are probably some more smart ones and even smarter than what I solved, but I didn't feel any urge to find AND solve them. Maybe I will if/when I replay this (which would be, ideally, when I've got access to a nice VR version of it, no hurry).

They point in the direction as well as the height/depth of the puzzle's location. If you've solved one at, say, sea-level and it has one below that one drawn on the monolith, you know its going to be underground. Of course it doesn't give away the solution or anything but it definitely makes it feel less like randomly running around hoping to stumble upon some random thing, something I've seen plenty of reviewers and the like criticizing the game for. I mean it pretty much has a built-in walkthrough for pretty much everything. I love it.
 

Hecht

Blue light comes around
Administrator
Oct 24, 2017
9,736
I really enjoyed the puzzles, but the tetris ones still fuck with my head. I still feel like there's a rule there that I'm not comprehending.

(all lasers are up, just need to finish the last area)
 

LebGuns

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,127
Fuck the Tetris puzzles, and fuck the swamp. Made me almost quit the game. Decided to give it another shot and cheated my way through this section. Fuck that noise.
 

Easy_G

Member
Dec 11, 2017
1,671
California
Fuck the Tetris puzzles, and fuck the swamp. Made me almost quit the game. Decided to give it another shot and cheated my way through this section. Fuck that noise.
Eventually it'll click. At least for your sake I hope it will as all the puzzle types need to be used in the end game.

I've actually started to really like the Tetris puzzles on my second playthrough. Mainly because I fully understand the rules now.
 

Deleted member 33887

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 20, 2017
2,109
I got really dizzy playing it and then got stuck because I couldn't figure out where to go and the only available puzzles gave me 0 clue of how I was supposed to solve them. I figure I missed a few puzzles that were supposed to teach me some crucial point.
 
OP
OP
NO!R

NO!R

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,742
Oh, hey, nice to see this thread back.

Time for a tiny update I guess.

Girlfriend and I got through the Marsh. Then went down the environment puzzle rabbit hole for a while until we couldn't find anymore and ditched the boat at the treehouse entrance. These made my head spin, but we managed between the two of us. More environmental puzzles. Then she finished the Tetris half of the quarry while I was busy sending an email! Anyway... I've got the Greenhouse and the village left. (Also, that second panel at the top of the Keep. WTF)
 

Ge0force

Self-requested ban.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,265
Belgium
The Witness is cheaper than ever now on Steam, only €9.99 in my country. I'm still not sure if I should buy it or not. I like puzzle games, but not for days in a row. It seems like the witness is hard to resume after a break?
 

dkeane

Member
Oct 27, 2017
871
Only puzzles I wanted to smash things were the most difficult sounds puzzles. But I got through them eventually.
Probably one of my all-time favorite games
 

opticalmace

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,030
The Witness is cheaper than ever now on Steam, only €9.99 in my country. I'm still not sure if I should buy it or not. I like puzzle games, but not for days in a row. It seems like the witness is hard to resume after a break?
One of my favourite games of all time. I say buy it. :P

Not sure what you mean about days in a row... you don't have to play it everyday. It's not *that* complex. It's more like if you don't play for a year you'll probably forget a bunch of the rules.
 

Adryuu

Master of the Wind
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,607
The Witness is cheaper than ever now on Steam, only €9.99 in my country. I'm still not sure if I should buy it or not. I like puzzle games, but not for days in a row. It seems like the witness is hard to resume after a break?

Ge0force

That's a very good price. And also I didn't play everyday, you can (and sometimes maybe will need to) stay away from the game for a couple weeks and you may get back to it with a fresher mind and it would be useful indeed. Just don't forget your progress on the island and the mechanics of any puzzle type for too long. It's hard to get lost in the island anyway once you get to know it and you can always go back and re do any puzzle group to refresh the solutions and mechanics.

If you really like it anyway you'll want to play often.
 

Ge0force

Self-requested ban.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,265
Belgium
One of my favourite games of all time. I say buy it. :P

Not sure what you mean about days in a row... you don't have to play it everyday. It's not *that* complex. It's more like if you don't play for a year you'll probably forget a bunch of the rules.

Ge0force

That's a very good price. And also I didn't play everyday, you can (and sometimes maybe will need to) stay away from the game for a couple weeks and you may get back to it with a fresher mind and it would be useful indeed. Just don't forget your progress on the island and the mechanics of any puzzle type for too long. It's hard to get lost in the island anyway once you get to know it and you can always go back and re do any puzzle group to refresh the solutions and mechanics.

If you really like it anyway you'll want to play often.

Okay guys, you've convinced me. Thanks for taking my last doubts away!
 
OP
OP
NO!R

NO!R

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,742
Bump! I beat it.

Updated the OP.

Edit:

Here it is, for convenience's sake:

I "beat" it. I got the Endgame trophy.

So... Having been playing it for a while this type of ending didn't come as a shock or surprise, but I'm still trying to understand it, or make sense of it.

Right off the bat, this game lures you in with its beautiful art direction, it follows with some very simple puzzles, and then let's your own curiosity do the rest.

As you progress, you find snippets of philosophy pertaining to language, existentialism, theology, learning about the world, understanding the nature of the universe, all via very different and diverse approaches (the arts, the sciences, the natural human intellect, the fundamental laws of Western physics, Zen...), which definitely helps to understand the game (and its analogy, I suppose) if you have already some degree of knowledge about them.

I'm really not as well versed in physics or theology or Zen/Buddhism as I'd wish to properly understand all of what the game threw at me; and I'm certainly not as brainy, or as readily receptive, of deep philosophical thought as I was when I dabbled in it in college and high school.

But, I did manage to put two and two together from the videos and audio quotes.

It's hard to establish a through line, thematically, for this game, to get a better understanding of what it's trying to say. The only thing apparent to me based on my findings (audiotapes, vídeos, the puzzles themselves, the nature of the island, etc...) is that it's aware that it is a game, and what that entails. It knows it's an amalgam of art and science, and that games are inherently very effective learning tools; visually, logically, linguistically, games have an intrinsic power to teach the player something.

And so does the world and universe we live in. There's a nice little parallel to be drawn between humanity's quest for knowledge and the player's own little scientific endeavours of deciphering the island's riddles. I, as the visiting player in this virtual garden of Eden, have about as many chances of inductively inferring more about my hosts through the challenges and questions they prepared for me as we do (as a species) about the true nature of the universe simply from the questions and answers we find as we discover more of it.

The game is very careful about skirting the topic of creationism or intelligent design by not throwing down the question of "why I am here?" (playing the game, etc). It's all posited as a simple desire to learn more. The innate curiosity of the human mind, and the dilemmas that arise once that intellect develops enough that the tools available by which to gain knowledge are insufficient, or the answers themselves are insufficient. It's about being unafraid to come out empty handed, and about not having any preconceived notions of the answers you're gonna get, if any, at the end of your experiments.

Really, really neat game. I'm certainly not done with it, much less thinking about it.

Holy hell...
 
Last edited:

Ge0force

Self-requested ban.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,265
Belgium
Across two systems, I never did figure out to do those puzzles in the desert temple near the start of the game. Playing on PS4, I stood in the right spot and it finally clicked. Cant believe I never noticed that before

Haha, same here! After almost 2 hours of trying the most ridiculous things, I gave up and watched the solution of the 1st puzzle on youtube. That was all I needed to finish the other puzzles in that area. I wonder how many hours I would have needed to find this myself if there wasn't a walkthrough available...
 

Easy_G

Member
Dec 11, 2017
1,671
California

Adryuu

Master of the Wind
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,607
Big Boss, if you haven't yet you should really start up a new game. The opening area takes on a whole new feel once you've completed the game and really understood all the puzzle rules.

Or just make sure to load his last save and find out if he has every single laser activated and puzzle done including that particular area. And every video, etc. That will naturally lead to all.
 
OP
OP
NO!R

NO!R

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,742
That's a fantastic description of the game. I think you nailed what it was going for. The game is a game, and it knows that and tries to teach using that.

Now, did you complete the Challenge?

That all is very nice indeed, but I think you really want to see the other ending.

Big Boss, if you haven't yet you should really start up a new game. The opening area takes on a whole new feel once you've completed the game and really understood all the puzzle rules.

Or just make sure to load his last save and find out if he has every single laser activated and puzzle done including that particular area. And every video, etc. That will naturally lead to all.

I'm not done with the challenge, yet.

Although some audio logs are sort of, but not really, breaking the fourth wall.

I'm getting a Talos vibe from the two women and the interview.

Also, I did start a new game. The game pretty much forced me to. I found the "exit".
 

Adryuu

Master of the Wind
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,607
Yeah the exit (I suppose you watched the credits) and the fourth wall kinda breaking. That's what I'm talking about. All the thoughts you got out of the story are cool but that's not the whole story. :)
 

CaVaYeRo

Member
Oct 31, 2017
341
Perhaps this is the best thread for this. I interviewed Jonathan Blow the other day in Barcelona, here's the full thing in video (video is in English):

https://www.gamereactor.es/articulos/512593/Jonathan+Blow+y+la+epifania+The+Witness/

First third is about his JAI programming language, but then we talk a look back at The Witness most of the time. We talk about "the thing", about designing things to be discovered, about The Witness best as a shared experience and so on.

Besides, it's looking like The Witness for Nintendo Switch will take some time (not planning new versions for now, though it's probably happening) and there's also some comments on Thekla's new game project.
 

Easy_G

Member
Dec 11, 2017
1,671
California
Perhaps this is the best thread for this. I interviewed Jonathan Blow the other day in Barcelona, here's the full thing in video (video is in English):

https://www.gamereactor.es/articulos/512593/Jonathan+Blow+y+la+epifania+The+Witness/

First third is about his JAI programming language, but then we talk a look back at The Witness most of the time. We talk about "the thing", about designing things to be discovered, about The Witness best as a shared experience and so on.

Besides, it's looking like The Witness for Nintendo Switch will take some time (not planning new versions for now, though it's probably happening) and there's also some comments on Thekla's new game project.

Any chance you have a transcribed version of the interview? It sounds really interesting.
 

Paulogy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
227
This game is phenomenal (if you like exceptionally clever, but fair puzzle games and like figuring things out for yourself). Quite possibly my favorite game of all time. I recommend everyone try it at least a little bit. After unlocking one laser tower you'll probably know if it has its hooks in you or not :-)

And even after you "beat" the game, there's more to do. And it's worth trying to "complete" the game as well, as some of the most fun I had was in that second half.