Censorship you actually approve of in games?

jph139 · Jan 20, 2018

Man God said:
Every change made in Tokyo Mirage Sessions is better besides the wedding dress, which just makes it look unflattering.

I don't have a problem with the TMS costume changes in a vacuum - like, the goofy "street" outfits generally look better than the bikinis - but I really disliked the rewrites for the mission they were a part of. It was SUPER obvious that the content had been edited and the story was massaged around it.

And yeah the wedding dress was ugly as sin.

I don't mind content changes as long as the effect on the overall package is minor. And that the new stuff is at least as high quality as the original. TMS didn't quite succeed with the latter, but since it was a relatively small part of the game, I can't really complain.

Foldedpencil · Jan 20, 2018

I'm a prude, and I appreciate the changes. I don't personally understand the "censorship" angle. If you want the original Japanese release, that is not illegal to import. If you want a localized version, I don't see a problem with that localisation extending to character designs. I think the only localization that really bugged me was final fantasy IV, when a bunch of features were removed so Americans wouldn't be confused.

Richietto · Jan 20, 2018

Fucking thigh windows are so fucking stupid. Thanks Bamco and Sakurai for covering up that dumb shit for Corrin.

Kewlmyc · Jan 20, 2018

Cosmetic localization changes are whatever to me. Don't really care all that much, as long as it's consistent. I usually don't like major localization changes when they impact the story. The change to a certain death in Berseria has later scenes, which recreate the original scene using different characters, lose that impact in the localization.

The one time I can recall that I actually preferred a story change was the Corrin X Soleil support being changed from him drugging her using a drink/potion to make her feel differently about being around guys, to something more natural.

Man God said:
Every change made in Tokyo Mirage Sessions is better besides the wedding dress, which just makes it look unflattering.

Same with all of the changes in Bravely Second and Bravely Default.

Haven't played it, but isn't the meaning of the first dungeon in TMS completely changed? Like from an idol/model becoming more comfortable having gravure pictures taken of her, to her being more comfortable having general pictures taken of her? That's a pretty big change, and doesn't really make sense that a model wouldn't be okay with pictures being taken of them.

lvl 99 Pixel · Jan 20, 2018

If true, the localization for fainting in Pokemon is a whole lot less abusive sounding

Lone Cactus Motel · Jan 20, 2018

Call it whatever you want, censorship, localization, whatever, but I prefer the original product to be available. Lock it behind (free) DLC or something, as long as people are not forcing changes on me like that. I want to decide myself whether something offends me or not.

Deleted member 8001 · Jan 20, 2018

Leafhopper said:
You don't know what the word censorship means.

Oh I do, in my case I'm referring to moral censorship.

NoblesseOblige · Jan 20, 2018

I approve of any because it's not my product to decide things about.

The whole 'artist vision' thing flies out the window for me when it's at the behest of a corporation driven by profit.

Soul Unison · Jan 20, 2018

Man God said:
Every change made in Tokyo Mirage Sessions is better besides the wedding dress, which just makes it look unflattering.

Same with all of the changes in Bravely Second and Bravely Default.

Buffum said:
I found the censorship on Xenoblade Chronicles X to be appropriate. Would've liked a more localized option for Xenoblade Chronicles 2 to be honest.

100% agreed.
I probably wouldn't have ever bought Xenoblade X if the incredibly creepy outfits from the JP version had been left untouched.

I don't get the people who react so violently to anything that even approaches "censorship."
Was a pubescent girl wandering around in a space-stripper outfit deeply important to the game's narrative for you?
A lot of these types can nitpick and deflect all they want, but they only seem to show up when the "censorship" is "We're not going to sexualize the underaged."

mas8705 · Jan 20, 2018

Honestly, it is case by case for me. If it is something that can be taken the wrong way or is so painfully obvious that it wouldn't fly overseas, then I can get that. Best example I can think of is (some...) of the Yugioh edits. It might be hard to explain to Little Jimmy why Harpie Lady is only wearing blue stripes, whereas a purple top while still allowing her appeal to come through doesn't really ruin her image.

Of course, if it is the idea of trying to remove stuff while making the edits look stupid, then obviously, you not only destroy what you're trying to do, but you also make it seem disrespectful to the original source. I.E. what happened with Tokyo Mirage Sessions and how apparently the changes there made it look like our lead were missing bones in her body.

Valkyr1983 · Jan 20, 2018

None

I like sexualized and objectified character designs and I feel it's the artist / studios right to produce anything as long as it's legal and my right to consume

I hate even minor changes

R Mika's ass slap change in sfv still pisses me off

Deleted member 11413 · Jan 20, 2018

Kewlmyc said:
Cosmetic localization changes are whatever to me. Don't really care all that much, as long as it's consistent. I usually don't like major localization changes when they impact the story. The change to a certain death in Berseria has later scenes, which recreate the original scene using different characters, lose that impact in the localization.

The one time I can recall that I actually preferred a story change was the Corrin X Soleil support being changed from him drugging her using a drink/potion to make her feel differently about being around guys, to something more natural.

Haven't played it, but isn't the meaning of the first dungeon in TMS completely changed? Like from an idol/model becoming more comfortable having gravure pictures taken of her, to her being more comfortable having general pictures taken of her? That's a pretty big change, and doesn't really make sense that a model wouldn't be okay with pictures being taken of them.

Sure, but then we need to ask ourselves, do we really need a plotline that normalized taking racy photos of a high school girl? Probably not.

Brotherhood93 · Jan 20, 2018

Does changing the design for a different game count as censorship? Same for localisation changes, it's not there to suppress the original content but to make it better and/or more interesting for different audiences that have different cultures. I class censorship as a governing body making the developers change/remove parts of a game, in which case I don't think there is a good example of it.

Tracygill · Jan 20, 2018

I think games that promote molesting children should be censored and it's crazy that they are even able to publish their games without being arrested in their own countries.

It's 2018, not 1518 or 1018. When people try to defend an outdated culture of child abuse this is the reaction

Aters · Jan 20, 2018

Acquiescence said:
Japan's refusal to show 100% of the titty in a video game is absurd quite frankly. They're really letting themselves down in this respect.

Like, you can have the whole tits out, but just not nipples. Nipples are out.

cosmicblizzard · Jan 20, 2018

None. Understanding why it happens doesn't mean I support it and it has led to shit shows like TMS and FE Fates.

Castform · Jan 20, 2018

a) Localization is not censorship. It's the maker of the game changing it. Not someone else imposing their will, but the actual creator of the game.

b) Localization is oftentimes needed to preserve artistic intent. Take the Xenoblade 2 example, where I believe that one of the characters (a preteen) had her age changed to be older due to her wearing a bikini-like outfit. In Japan, maybe this wouldn't give off the skeevy undertones it does in America, but here it does. Was the artistic intent to have skeevy undertones? Nope. By changing the age, the artistic vision is able to be preserved despite changing some minute details.

c) Video companies want to actually sell their video games for currency. They don't just want to make video games for the hell of it. They want those dollar dollar bills. So those saying "Don't like it, well don't buy it" are missing that game companies don't want people to not buy their games. I really hope this doesn't come as a surprise, but Nintendo actually likes to sell software and hardware to people.

Coi · Jan 20, 2018

Censorship is bad in every possible way. I can't understand why some people is ok with that. Why I would approve that someone decides what I watch and play? If you don't like the game or you're not comfortable with the characters/story/whatever don't buy the game and play something else, but censor something just because you don't like it? Nah

Ferrs · Jan 20, 2018

Two of the bigger lies in this hobby, calling localization censorship and assuming sexualized characters always comes from artistic freedom.

Black_Stride · Jan 20, 2018

PaypayTR said:
No fuck no. Let the artist do whatever they feel , imagine and create.

If i dont feel that inappropriate or stupid i will simply ignore product. This is not middle age which we censor, erase things we dont like.

FUCK THAT.

Abriael said:
None whatsoever, under no conditions.
.

Coi said:
Censorship is bad in every possible way. I can't understand why some people is ok with that. Why I would approve that someone decides what I watch and play? If you don't like the game or you're not comfortable with the characters/story/whatever don't buy the game and play something else, but censor something just because you don't like it? Nah

You guys are weird.

What if the whole game is brilliant but it has one or more sexualized underage girls?
You still think any sort of censorship would fuck it up....even if its just making a child have some proper appropriate clothes.

P.S I had no idea there was a "No censorship defense force".

DR2K · Jan 20, 2018

Abything that removes pedo or child porn. Even the she's 18 but looks 12 bullshit.

iRAWRasaurus · Jan 20, 2018

Syril said:
Changing sexualized outfits on underaged characters.

.

Gold Arsene · Jan 20, 2018

Lord of Ostia said:
Sure, but then we need to ask ourselves, do we really need a plotline that normalized taking racy photos of a high school girl? Probably not.

I don't think we need to worry about a niche spinoff of two niche series normalizing anything.

She's a model. It's literally her job.

Foldedpencil said:
I'm a prude, and I appreciate the changes. I don't personally understand the "censorship" angle. If you want the original Japanese release, that is not illegal to import. If you want a localized version, I don't see a problem with that localisation extending to character designs. I think the only localization that really bugged me was final fantasy IV, when a bunch of features were removed so Americans wouldn't be confused.

By this same token couldn't you simply play a different game that better aligns with your taste?

Zipzo · Jan 20, 2018

Leafhopper said:
You don't know what the word censorship means.

You're the second person in the thread to say this, and yet also the 2nd person to continue to not explain what it is if it's such a higher knowledge that we apparently don't understand.

For the record, on topic, I don't agree with censorship of any kind. For better or for worse.

julia crawford · Jan 20, 2018

MisterBear said:
Wat. Why would you ever be in support of censorship, you are on some weird plane of existence if you have convinced yourself that it is a good thing.

Do you think hate speech should be freely published? Condemnations of lgbtq on religious or pseudo-scientific grounds? What about information about suicide methods? Bomb design? Manuals about how to create drugs and use them on unsuspecting victims? What about something more on the legalese side of things, like defamation? False accusations of crime? These too are instances of censorship. We can't have this perception that prohibition of anything is an inherent misuse or abuse of power, because that's not applicable to the world we already live in and which permits our continued safety and privilege.

L Thammy · Jan 20, 2018

If a company is going to make changes to their product in order to adapt to the culture of the territory it's released in, as far as I'm concerned, that's just marketing. I'll judge it on how savvy the marketing is.

MisterBear · Jan 20, 2018

Kokonoe said:
Try reading the OP to see why I support it in certain cases.

Yea, I did. You worded it all kind of weird and sort of click-baity.

If it was "Localization Changes you prefer" or something, I'd more see your point.

Deleted member 8001 · Jan 20, 2018

nintendocatspls said:
a) Localization is not censorship. It's the maker of the game changing it. Not someone else imposing their will, but the actual creator of the game.

b) Localization is oftentimes needed to preserve artistic intent. Take the Xenoblade 2 example, where I believe that one of the characters (a preteen) had her age changed to be older due to her wearing a bikini-like outfit. In Japan, maybe this wouldn't give off the skeevy undertones it does in America, but here it does. Was the artistic intent to have skeevy undertones? Nope. By changing the age, the artistic vision is able to be preserved despite changing some minute details.

c) Video companies want to actually sell their video games for currency. They don't just want to make video games for the hell of it. They want those dollar dollar bills. So those saying "Don't like it, well don't buy it" are missing that game companies don't want people to not buy their games. I really hope this doesn't come as a surprise, but Nintendo actually likes to sell software and hardware to people.

I disagree with this, I think merely stating "localization" is a rather blanket term that can be used for all types of edits that aren't necessarily based on morals. I find that if you are editing something to remove a skimpy outfit, or tone down a certain aspect of a game that is morally questionable, that would be moral censorship at the company's request because in its raw original form it doesn't have these things imposed onto it.

That said, as stated in the OP, I think there are cases where it truly does benefit characters and when that occurs I fully support it.

jon bones · Jan 20, 2018

Coi said:
Why I would approve that someone decides what I watch and play?

You do this literally every time you consume any piece of media.

gforguava · Jan 20, 2018

The vast majority of people in this thread have never played a censored game in their life.

Deleted member 11413 · Jan 20, 2018

Ferrs said:
Two of the bigger lies in this hobby, calling localization censorship and assuming sexualized characters always comes from artistic freedom.

Artistic freedom really has no bearing on this argument anyway, as these changes are always made due to differing attitudes between Japan and the West. The artist already expressed themselves freely, the publisher who owns the product then gets to decide how to best sell it in other markets.

L Thammy · Jan 20, 2018

John Kowalski said:
Do you think hate speech should be freely published? Condemnations of lgbtq on religious or pseudo-scientific grounds? What about information about suicide methods? Bomb design? Manuals about how to create drugs and use them on unsuspecting victims? What about something more on the legalese side of things, like defamation? False accusations of crime? These too are instances of censorship. We can't have this perception that prohibition of anything is an inherent misuse or abuse of power, because that's not applicable to the world we already live in and which permits our continued safety and privilege.

Or, more simply, child porn. As even the countries that seem to be most proud of their freedom of speech tend to draw a line there.

Ferrs · Jan 20, 2018

Lord of Ostia said:
Artistic freedom really has no bearing on this argument anyway, as these changes are always made due to differing attitudes between Japan and the West. The artist already expressed themselves freely, the publisher who owns the product then gets to decide how to best sell it in other markets.

I was talking more about the source, not the localisation decisions.

Deleted member 8593 · Jan 20, 2018

John Kowalski said:
Do you think hate speech should be freely published? Condemnations of lgbtq on religious or pseudo-scientific grounds? What about information about suicide methods? Bomb design? Manuals about how to create drugs and use them on unsuspecting victims? What about something more on the legalese side of things, like defamation? False accusations of crime? These too are instances of censorship. We can't have this perception that prohibition of anything is an inherent misuse or abuse of power, because that's not applicable to the world we already live in and which permits our continued safety and privilege.

There's gonna be someone that defends any of these because 12y/os tiddies > *

CrackPebbles · Jan 20, 2018

Syril said:
Changing sexualized outfits on underaged characters.

I find it hard to argue in favor of localization changes alot of the time but this right here i'm totally ok with, I applaud it. Shouldn't even be a thing in the first place.

Deleted member 11413 · Jan 20, 2018

Crazy Izanagi said:
I don't think we need to worry about a niche spinoff of two niche series normalizing anything.

She's a model. It's literally her job.

By this same token couldn't you simply play a different game that better aligns with your taste?

If you don't think anime, manga, and Japanese video games have any role in normalizing the sexualization of minors then I don't know what to tell you. It's basically the biggest problem with those media.

cosmicblizzard · Jan 20, 2018

nintendocatspls said:
a) Localization is not censorship. It's the maker of the game changing it. Not someone else imposing their will, but the actual creator of the game.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-censorship

John Konstantin · Jan 20, 2018

jon bones said:
First of all, it's not censorship. If the government stepped in and tried to do some stuff, I'd be as upset as any anime-avatar twitter person.

Second of all, calm down PaypayTR

Third of all, I appreciate when they localize stuff for America like removing dumb shit like thigh-windows.

There's a thing called self-censorship and IMO is more insidious than the old school censorship. But the thing is that publishers don't treat videogames as artworks, they treat them as products. So sometimes they change the games to get better sales in certain markets. And this is not only a thing for sexual related content, it affects a lot of different parts of a videogame such as gameplay mechanics, difficulty, design, squeezing online mode and so on.

We have to accept than videogames are far from being what they creators want them to be. It's clear that marketting has an important input on how a videogame is created. Their main objective is selling as much as possible to the designated target of the game. Some indie games might be an exception but that's the rule for better or for worse.

julia crawford · Jan 20, 2018

NoblesseOblige said:
I approve of any because it's not my product to decide things about.

The whole 'artist vision' thing flies out the window for me when it's at the behest of a corporation driven by profit.

I mean, fuck the man, i agree, but it's not profit we're talking about, everyone is driven by profit, especially artists whose revenue consistently redefines what kind of art they're able to create and publish.

Kudo · Jan 20, 2018

None, really. Usually skip games with censorship.

Deleted member 1839 · Jan 20, 2018

Syril said:
Changing sexualized outfits on underaged characters.

Yep. I can understand if you don't like localization changing the original quality of a script or plot, I don't like that as well. However, I can't imagine something like the above post will have any affect on plot/storyline so there shouldn't even been arguement over the fact.

PaypayTR · Jan 20, 2018

Black_Stride said:
You guys are weird.

What if the whole game is brilliant but it has one or more sexualized underage girls?
You still think any sort of censorship would fuck it up....even if its just making a child have some proper appropriate clothes.

P.S I had no idea there was a "No censorship defense force".

Game is fucking digital art nothing more then some pixel . So stop identifying them like they are actual girls. We.dont thats why we wrote these.

Also stop with defence force bullshit

Deleted member 11093 · Jan 20, 2018

Dardan Sandiego said:
There's gonna be someone that defends any of these because 12y/os tiddies > *

something something she's actually a zillion years old dragon queen who's from the future who's also an alien something something

Vicious17 · Jan 20, 2018

I'm ok with censorship that's done tastefully. Like new articles of clothing and the like.

On the other hand, you have stuff like Xenoblade X which... literally put black boxes over... things.

PlanetSmasher · Jan 20, 2018

Erase all sexualization of minors from games. Ideally, developers just wouldn't put it in there at all, but if Japan has to be creeps then the least the localization companies/teams can do is cut that shit out of the Western releases.

Deleted member 35156 · Jan 20, 2018

I guess this one isn't censorship but it's the only thing that comes to mind when I think of a difference in region that I liked. I prefer the Cube we got from Jet Set Radio:

Over the original Japanese look:

Aside from that I tend to prefer my games with no censorship even if it's something I rather that the game didn't have. Now of it's localization differences, especially when it comes to names, I do tend to prefer those more.

PaypayTR · Jan 20, 2018

Ferrs said:
Two of the bigger lies in this hobby, calling localization censorship and assuming sexualized characters always comes from artistic freedom.

Yes it does and it isnt lie. You are gonna have to explain if you are spouting bs like these without explaining if

Deleted member 11413 · Jan 20, 2018

PaypayTR said:
Game is fucking digital art nothing more then some pixel . So stop identifying them like they are actual girls. We.dont thats why we wrote these.

Also stop with defence force bullshit

Just because it doesn't involve the actual exploitation of children doesn't mean it isn't problematic and harmful.

PaypayTR · Jan 20, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
Erase all sexualization of minors from games. Ideally, developers just wouldn't put it in there at all, but if Japan has to be creeps then the least the localization companies/teams can do is cut that shit out of the Western releases.

Why not cover all japaneese characters in hijab then . Would you guys be happy ?

justiceiro · Jan 20, 2018

Does changing a joke because it makes no sense in another culture counts? because that i approve.

Mostly, i just want the quality to remain. In fatal frame, they get rid of the lingiere costumes, but put out some other exclusives costumes as replacement. Just don't throw a black bar like they did on TMS

Censorship you actually approve of in games?

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