Swedish PM does not rule out use of army to end gang violence

signal · Jan 22, 2018

STOCKHOLM (Reuters) - Sweden will do whatever it takes, including sending in the army, to end a wave of gang violence that has seen a string of deadly shootings, Prime Minister Stefan Lofven said in Wednesday.

Sweden's murder rate is relatively low in international terms, but gang violence has surged in recent years and Swedes are worried that the police are unable to cope. In 2016, the latest year for which official statistics are available, 106 people were murdered in Sweden, a country of 10 million. But Swedish TV reported there were over 300 shootings, mostly in turf battles between gangs over drugs, protection rackets and prostitution.

Four people were shot dead in the first week of this year. One man died after picking up a hand grenade outside a subway station in a suburb of Stockholm.

Law and order is likely to be a major issue in a parliamentary election scheduled for September with the populist, opposition Sweden Democrats linking public concern about the rising crime rate to a large increase in the numbers of immigrants.

"It would not be my first option to bring in the military, but I am prepared to do whatever is necessary to make sure that serious, organized crime is stamped out," Lofven told news agency TT.

The government has promised police an extra 7.1 billion crowns ($880 million) through 2020, toughened laws on gun crimes and made it easier for the police to monitor private phone calls and emails, among other measures.

But a report by the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention shows increasing numbers of Swedes worried about crime with confidence falling in the police and the judicial system. "People are shot to death in pizza restaurants, people are killed by hand grenades they find on the street," Sweden Democrat leader Jimmie Akesson said in parliament on Wednesday.

"This is the new Sweden; the new, exciting dynamic, multicultural paradise that so many here in this assembly ... have fought to create for so many years," he said sarcastically.

Four people shot dead in week one of 2018 and people finding grenades in the street, bringing in the army to stop gang violence? What the hell.

Mr Swine · Jan 22, 2018

signal said:
Reuters

Four people shot dead in week one of 2018 and people finding grenades in the street, bringing in the army to stop gang violence? What the hell.

Well there aren't enough police or they get payed well enough so Sweden is in a weird spot so I don't know what our government can do to stop this violence atm

rstzkpf · Jan 22, 2018

I feel like the far right is going to become a permanent fixture of European politics because of immigration. Clearly, there's an issue.

Bento · Jan 22, 2018

It's worth noting that he has walked back/clarified this statement since. So no, there won't be any military patrolling the streets :P
I don't live in Malmö or Stockholm so I can't really speak for the developments there but would be neat if a local maybe could give their take on all this?

BowieZ · Jan 22, 2018

What are the statistics for the make-up of these gangs and the prevalence of the crime?

It's impossible to have any reasoned discussion about it if we only have anecdotal evidence and Twitter hearsay.

signal · Jan 22, 2018

Bento said:
It's worth noting that he has walked back/clarified this statement since. So no, there won't be any military patrolling the streets :P
I don't live in Malmö or Stockholm so I can't really speak for the developments there but would be neat if a local maybe could give their take on all this?

Oh, didn't notice. Anything I can link in the OP?

Bento · Jan 22, 2018

signal said:
Oh, didn't notice. Anything I can link in the OP?

Unfortunately only in swedish :(

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/lofven-vill-inte-satta-in-militar

Deleted member 19218 · Jan 22, 2018

signal said:
Reuters
Four people shot dead in week one of 2018 and people finding grenades in the street, bringing in the army to stop gang violence? What the hell.

Where I am from that is quite a shocking statistic. Where are you from OP?

signal · Jan 22, 2018

Kuma Bear said:
Where I am from that is quite a shocking statistic. Where are you from OP?

Is or is not shocking? Anyway Canada and live in Japan now, so shocking either way. Or rather shocking in the context of what I assumed Sweden's rate would be.

Tideas · Jan 22, 2018

So do we know who's making up there gangs?

Is it white swedes? Or immigrants? And if so, which groups?

firehawk12 · Jan 22, 2018

"This is the new Sweden; the new, exciting dynamic, multicultural paradise that so many here in this assembly ... have fought to create for so many years," he said sarcastically.

BUILD THE WALL. #MSGA.

Cantaim · Jan 22, 2018

Well that sounds like a terrible idea.

TyrantGuardian · Jan 22, 2018

Tideas said:
So do we know who's making up there gangs?

Is it white swedes? Or immigrants? And if so, which groups?

Define "white Swedes" please.

Typhon · Jan 22, 2018

Grenades? Geeze, I thought gang violence in the US was bad. Where the hell do you get grenades?

MistakenMobius · Jan 22, 2018

Typhon said:
Grenades? Geeze, I thought gang violence in the US was bad.

For all the thing about gang violence in the US, I don't get the feeling that the US has a single passports zone that goes all the way to real military war zone.
For how bad the situation in Mexico, it's still mainly para military violence not 2 full blown state or Porto state fighting with RPG and so on.

Tideas · Jan 22, 2018

TyrantGuardian said:
Define "white Swedes" please.

People with white skin of Nordic blood that has Swedish nationality?

Rahvar · Jan 22, 2018

As stated earlier, he did amend the statement earlier. Not to mention his iwn minister, responsible for this part of the government has ruled it out.

As for race and crime statistics? When it comes to these time of crimes it's usually second-generation immigrants. But obviously this is mostly a case of failed immigration politics rather than "all the colored people are criminals". People who grow up around crimes usually end up with it a part of their lives. Stockholm and Malmö both have very segregated parts were most of the population are immigrants and gangs have been active there for 20+ years.

I have co-workers who talk about how cool and gangster these people are. There were a group of 3 people who were driven out of Stockholm because they were deemed to extreme for their gang. They moved to Malmö and returned 3 years later, brutally assaulting and pissing on one of the guys responsible.

It's been going on for a long time but most of the time it's criminals hurting/killing eachother. It's been far more public recently though.

You Are Viewtiful · Jan 22, 2018

Sounds excessive. Is Sweden's murder rate actually going up?

TyrantGuardian · Jan 22, 2018

Tideas said:
People with white skin of Nordic blood that has Swedish nationality?

Lol what the hell. "Nordic blood"? What am I even reading.

Deleted member 14192 · Jan 22, 2018

Typhon said:
Grenades? Geeze, I thought gang violence in the US was bad. Where the hell do you get grenades?

The Balkans mostly.

Tideas · Jan 22, 2018

TyrantGuardian said:
Lol what the hell. "Nordic blood"? What am I even reading.

Nordic people is an actual ethnicity. You know that right?

signal · Jan 22, 2018

Rahvar said:
I have co-workers who talk about how cool and gangster these people are. There were a group of 3 people who were driven out of Stockholm because they were deemed to extreme for their gang. They moved to Malmö and returned 3 years later, brutally assaulting and pissing on one of the guys responsible.

Is malmo as bad as the internet makes it out to be? I've never been but some years ago I stayed in Lund for a short trip which is pretty close iirc and thought it was great.

luca · Jan 22, 2018

Here in Denmark we have similar issues with gangs and gang war. I think the police have occasionally set up zones where they can check out and body scan suspicious people. There's a hell of a lot of gangs here now.

Deleted member 10428 · Jan 22, 2018

You Are Viewtiful said:
Sounds excessive. Is Sweden's murder rate actually going up?

I actually don't think so, can't find the article right now to back that up though.

And people should note that an army intervention never was an option. We have a law that forbids the use of the army against Swedish citizens, it has been in effect since 1931 when 4 protestors was shot dead by military.

hjort · Jan 22, 2018

You Are Viewtiful said:
Sounds excessive. Is Sweden's murder rate actually going up?

The statistics for murders and other violent crimes with a lethal outcome are declining, and have been for some time. These instances of more serious acts of violence, like with grenades and what not, didn't use to happen like this, though, and they're definitely getting a lot of media coverage.

EDIT: Info from Brottsförebyggande rådet (The Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention).

EDIT 2: There's a dissonance in Sweden at the moment, where the public perception of crime and the reality of the matter tends to be quite different, and the far right assholes are capitalizing on it.

MistakenMobius · Jan 22, 2018

Danneee said:
I actually don't think so, can't find the article right now to back that up though.

And people should note that an army intervention never was an option. We have a law that forbids the use of the army against Swedish citizens, it has been in effect since 1931 when 4 protestors was shot dead by military.

Well you can always create a near military organisation like Gendarmerie in France or if the gouvernement becomes crazy worse like the GAL in Spain

FrequentFlyer · Jan 22, 2018

I couldn't believe that there is actually a wikipedia article on the grenade attacks because they're so frequent lol:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Sweden

cameron · Jan 22, 2018

You Are Viewtiful said:
Sounds excessive. Is Sweden's murder rate actually going up?

Came across this bit from The Local:

Last year, 43 people were shot and killed in Sweden and over 300 shooting incidents were recorded. The vast majority of cases are linked to ongoing gang conflicts. At the same time that gang-related killings are increasing, other violence cases actually fell by roughly three percent in 2017.

As The Local has previously reported, official figures have shown that deadly violence has decreased in Sweden compared to the 1990s, but the number of gun deaths appears to be on the rise.

Paganmoon · Jan 22, 2018

TyrantGuardian said:
Lol what the hell. "Nordic blood"? What am I even reading.

I was going to post "diet racism" but man, that shit isn't even diet...

And as someone else posted, they will NOT use the military for this, I'm pretty sure the government isn't allowed to deploy the military in that capacity.
And Jimmie Åkesson can fuck right off as well with his comment.

Deleted member 10428 · Jan 22, 2018

MistakenMobius said:
Well you can always create a near military organisation like Gendarmerie in France or if the gouvernement becomes crazy worse like the GAL in Spain

I don't think it will go that far. It's more likely that the police and social services will be given more tools and such to combat gang recruitment. That said I don't totally rule out the option of a light militarization of the police (though that haven't really worked anywhere else?).

FrequentFlyer · Jan 22, 2018

TyrantGuardian said:
Define "white Swedes" please.

I'd assume he means the 88% ethnic swedes or ethnic swedes + "white" minorities such as the Sweden-Finns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_Europe(chart under 6.)

MistakenMobius · Jan 22, 2018

Danneee said:
I don't think it will go that far. It's more likely that the police and social services will be given more tools and such to combat gang recruitment. That said I don't totally rule out the option of a light militarization of the police (though that haven't really worked anywhere else?).

Colombia?

Deleted member 10428 · Jan 22, 2018

MistakenMobius said:
Colombia?

Did that actually work though?

Rahvar · Jan 22, 2018

signal said:
Is malmo as bad as the internet makes it out to be? I've never been but some years ago I stayed in Lund for a short trip which is pretty close iirc and thought it was great.

As I mentioned, there are parts that are worse than others, but it's not like you will be shot or robbed in broad daylight. At night you might come into an argument with groups of younger men if you "don't belong" in the area. But mostly the gangs target eachother or businesses in those areas.

FrequentFlyer · Jan 22, 2018

Rahvar said:
As I mentioned, there are parts that are worse than others, but it's not like you will be shot or robbed in broad daylight. At night you might come into an argument with groups of younger men if you "don't belong" in the area. But mostly the gangs target eachother or businesses in those areas.

Just because I've seen you mention this multiple times now: you realize "Nah they're mostly just killing each other" doesn't make it better, right?

Deleted member 197 · Jan 22, 2018

MistakenMobius said:
Colombia?

Colombia is a totally different beast.

Sweden sounds bad, but not take the miliary out.

ThorHammerstein · Jan 22, 2018

FrequentFlyer said:
I'd assume he means the 88% ethnic swedes or ethnic swedes + "white" minorities such as the Sweden-Finns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_Europe(chart under 6.)

Yeah but if you say white in Sweden, you know what you're implying even if you can't quantify it.
Lots and lots still don't accept people who are born and raised there regardless if they're 1st or 2nd gen immigrants.

witchedwiz · Jan 22, 2018

TyrantGuardian said:
Define "white Swedes" please.

This is just trying to spice things a bit too much, man..
It's clear that, in his misguided words, he must have meant something like natives weeds of white ancestry....
And this is indeed a legit question.. are the gangs in swe joined by new generation Swedes youth or they are composed only by the "white youth" that makes claim of Sweden ancestry?

hjort · Jan 22, 2018

Paganmoon said:
I was going to post "diet racism" but man, that shit isn't even diet...

And as someone else posted, they will NOT use the military for this, I'm pretty sure the government isn't allowed to deploy the military in that capacity.
And Jimmie Åkesson can fuck right off as well with his comment.

Jimmie Åkesson can fuck right off in general. He and everyone who votes for him.

Paradox House · Jan 22, 2018

Better than militarising the Police.

Fanatic · Jan 22, 2018

The gang violence in all of Scandinavia is predominantly perpetrated by immigrants and descendents thereof.

MistakenMobius · Jan 22, 2018

Paradox House said:
Better than militarising the Police.

Really?
You prefer to have the army against their own citizens as a war zone than giving police that already have the proper training the equipment needed?

Deleted member 9237 · Jan 22, 2018

signal said:
Is malmo as bad as the internet makes it out to be? I've never been but some years ago I stayed in Lund for a short trip which is pretty close iirc and thought it was great.

Lund and Malmö are quite different, Lund is mostly uni students and academics.
Nothing is as bad as the internet makes it out to be, but I wouldn't want to live there. I mean, the other year they had an issue with drug dealers outside of a kindergarten threatening parents who come to pick up their kids.

TyrantGuardian · Jan 22, 2018

We all know what he's actually trying to ask. Come on. Please teach me how I'm not a white Swede even though I'm white and a Swedish citizen. Talking about "blood" is straight up nazi shit and I'm not having it.

Paradox House · Jan 22, 2018

MistakenMobius said:
Really?
You prefer to have the army against their own citizens as a war zone than giving police that already have the proper training the equipment needed?

The army providing support to the Police if the Police lack man power is not that bizarre. If its about equipment then i'd rather military equipment remain in the hands of the military.

However i dont know enough of the situation to know if this is really required.

baron doggystyle von woof · Jan 22, 2018

The only way to end this is education and jobs for people who are sensitive to join these gangs.

Also making gangs look stupid as possible. There is nothing cool about crime.

hjort · Jan 22, 2018

TyrantGuardian said:
We all know what he's actually trying to ask. Come on. Please teach me how I'm not a white Swede even though I'm white and a Swedish citizen. Talking about "blood" is straight up nazi shit and I'm not having it.

Yeah, it's the old Blut und Boden, isn't it. Gotta say though, I almost wish we'd hear more of that shit than the new wave of racist bullshit, 'cause it's easier to tear down.

FrequentFlyer · Jan 22, 2018

baron doggystyle von woof said:
The only way to end this is education and jobs for people who are sensitive to join these gangs.

Also making gangs look stupid as possible. There is nothing cool about crime.

I think that is a tad simplistic. It's not like schools don't exist or someone with a university degree is going to say: "Welp, didn't get that job, time to join a gang and throw some grenades".

I'd imagine that being born in certain areas or into a certain milieu already sort of pre-defines many young peoples further journey. But how do you effectively counter that? What do you do if someone simply won't goto school and/or gets kicked off?

Haxxor2000 · Jan 22, 2018

Fanatic said:
The gang violence in all of Scandinavia is predominantly perpetrated by immigrants and descendents thereof.

It is? You don't happen to have any hard data when it comes to this?

Stealth edit: And is this slowly turning into: and thats why we should stop immigration rants?

lazygecko · Jan 22, 2018

I can "get" why there's internal violence between the gangs, but I am really struggling to understand the logic behind the recent attacks on police stations and the bizarre incident with the grenade left out in the open that killed a hapless innocent citizen. What is the goal behind these actions? What kind of result are they expecting from provoking police and society directly? If I were a crime boss I would probably aspire to keep a low enough profile to not attract too much unwanted attention.

I sincerely doubt they think they can scare the authorities into submission like in Mexico.

Swedish PM does not rule out use of army to end gang violence

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