Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. S5 |OT| Six Seasons and a Seventh

ZeoVGM said:

I don't understand what you're confused about here.

Seriously, some of you guys are overthinking it.

The flashbacks were what happened in the timeline when the team was not brought into the future. And now when they go back to the past, they will need to prevent that bad timeline from happening completely.

That's it.

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The flashbacks are of the timeline they're currently in. They are Robin's memories of what has happened in between the timeskip. I had explained earlier that they can't be in the future of an original timeline in which they never jumped through time because otherwise Fitz couldn't have caught up with them by waiting it out in a cryochamber.
So currently there is a time loop paradox going on. Obviously this will be changed because AoS can't just fuck up the MCU's future.

Here's the chain of events in chronological order:

- Diner scene
- SHIELD jumps forward in time. The 2017 versions of the characters disappear from the timeline for ~70 years
- Fitz gets left behind, wants to rejoin them
- Fitz gets Enoch to help him, gets put in cryosleep in space. He leaves behind a note on a postcard: "Working on it"
- While Fitz is in space napping, the Earth breaks apart. SHIELD is apparently at ground zero. The Zephyr records footage of Daisy leaving a Quinjet shortly before that. Daisy jumped through time though and should be gone so unless this is an impostor, clone or LMD, this has to be Daisy who returned from 2091.
- Post apocalypse, people take shelter in the Lighthouse as well as the Zephyr. Kree appear and take over etc
- at some point the footage of Daisy is discovered on the Zephyr's harddrives
- May raises Robin. May should also be gone because of the time jump yet here she is. Again, unless LMD or otherwise, this is May who has returned from 2091
- Fitz working on the time machine on the Zephyr. This is a second Fitz, the one from 2017 is still sleeping in space.
- fast forward to 2091, the time machine has been activated to trigger the monolith in 2017. Timejumping SHIELD from 2017 finally reappears in the Lighthouse.
- they find Fitz' note
- Fitz himself finally gets woken up
- shit from recent episodes happens
- Voss shows Daisy the footage of herself and tries to kill her to prevent her from going back and being the alleged cause of the apocalypse
- Robin dies and tells May she raised Robin as well as how to get back

-> so now they're eventually going back in time and unless something changes, they would just repeat what has already happened and prove Fitz' theory that time is fixed. Obviously something will change and the question now is what that is and how the team will figure that out.

So while it's probably going to end up with alternate/split or overwritten timelines or whatever, everything we have seen so far is from one and the same timeline. If there was an original "no timejump" timeline, we haven't seen that.

Imo. :P

StudioTan said:

Yeah basically although not remembering their past lives is incorrect because even though it's in the past it's the characters future. Don't forget that they all disappeared/were sent to the future before Quake (supposedly) broke the world so she has to go back in time in order to do that. That's why they were trying to kill her thinking if she didn't go back she couldn't break the world. I guess they were thinking it would basically reset the future? It depends on how they are dealing with time paradoxes.

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When Fitz is working on the time machine he gets frustrated and says that time travel is impossible. Why would he get so frustrated and be unsure of himself if he already knew that not only time travel is possible, they had all already been through it twice. The flashbacks are definitely original timeline flashbacks.

It's possible the flashbacks aren't all from the same timeline.

Claude Augario said:

It's possible the flashbacks aren't all from the same timeline.

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Particle Physicist said:

When Fitz is working on the time machine he gets frustrated and says that time travel is impossible. Why would he get so frustrated and be unsure of himself if he already knew that not only time travel is possible, they had all already been through it twice. The flashbacks are definitely original timeline flashbacks.

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He doesn't say time travel is impossible, he says that changing time is impossible. He mentions them having tried and failed. He also mentions Voss, the guy who tried changing things by killing Daisy in the future and Daisy herself having seen the aftermath and still destroying the world.
Just the mention of Voss is a major clue that this Fitz has been to the future.

The Fitz and Jemma that are together now are only happy because they are from parallel universes. The true FitzSimmons can never be happy together.

I am fully on board the multiple universe train before it even starts.

StudioTan said:

No that's not it at all, you're seeing them in THEIR future after they've gone back to the past.

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I don't think there's enough evidence to call it either way.

I think a big theme of the second half of the season will be the open question of whether those flashbacks were "erased" by their time traveling or will still happen. Fitz is very insistent that you can't change time, Robin/May were certain you could, and they very specifically left that unanswered.

LionPride said:

Man this show don't take place in the MCU

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Yeah, this has been quite clear for a while, and quite honestly I think the show is much better for it.

StarCreator said:

I don't think there's enough evidence to call it either way.

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Then who built the time travel portal on the Zephyr? We see Fitz working on it in 2022.

Toth said:

I still have a problem with the show wanting to exist in the Marvel universe but then disregarding the fact there are people like Dr. Strange, Tony Stark, and even the Inhumans who would likely stop the world from being cracked.

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If it is Graviton, well if heroes are unaware/unprepared he's a solar system killer depending on the version. Traditionally he has a range of 5 miles,but this version seems stronger, and his power set could literally cause the world to break apart under its own momentum. And he's near impossible to kill at full power.

Particle Physicist said:

When Fitz is working on the time machine he gets frustrated and says that time travel is impossible. Why would he get so frustrated and be unsure of himself if he already knew that not only time travel is possible, they had all already been through it twice. The flashbacks are definitely original timeline flashbacks.

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Unless it's a different Fitz. Also, did he say it was impossible? Or that changing events via time travel was impossible?

This show is very much in the Lost "Whatever Happened, Happened" camp, so if they change anything that breaks their own rules... so it must be time+universe hopping

The weird thing is that Fitz didn't time travel. He went into hibernation. So if they are able to fix everything, then would that erase the timeline that Fitz came from and also erase him? If he goes back in time with them, then what happens to the Fitz that didn't travel with them, the Fitz that was left at the diner?

Keyser S said:

This show is very much in the Lost "Whatever Happened, Happened" camp, so if they change anything that breaks their own rules... so it must be time+universe hopping

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I don't remember AoS actually confirming this one way or the other. Just Fitz proclaiming it.

For me it goes like this :
Present >> "Quake breaks the earth" >> May & Robin + Fitz working on a time machine >> Time travel becomes possible >> Enoch goes back and send the team in the future >> Stays to freeze Fitz

If they go back to save the world, they need to arrive after the date they were sent in the future. But Fitz has to stay in space, there's already a Fitz back. Depending on when they arrive, they can rescue Fitz in the army prison, or find him hanging with Enoch, or defreeze him... Gemma must leave the Fitz who slept 70 years and rescued her.
If they prevent the Quake incident, no need to build a time machine... And no more Flint, they have to bring him back in time too if he stays in the show.

H.Cornerstone said:

Yeah, this has been quite clear for a while, and quite honestly I think the show is much better for it.

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I mean, it does. And odds are pretty good that Infinity War will have a big impact on the show if we get a sixth season.

It would be nice if the movies reflected the TV shows but that doesn't change this from taking place in the MCU.

The problem with "but this huge problem in (insert solo hero here)'s world would never happen because (insert hero here) exists" is a common problem with comic books in general. Just need to turn off that part of your mind for a bit and enjoy the ride.

ZeoVGM said:

The problem with "but this huge problem in (insert solo hero here)'s world would never happen because (insert hero here) exists" is a common problem with comic books in general. Just need to turn off that part of your mind for a bit and enjoy the ride.

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I am bolding this because I keep trying to explain it to people but they just don't listen.

TheOMan said:

Unless it's a different Fitz. Also, did he say it was impossible? Or that changing events via time travel was impossible?

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He said changing events via time travel is impossible and they may be in a loop where they've done this 1000 times and it never changes.

I still believe the earth-shattering event is Thanos #itsallconnected #stilldreaming

For those not really understanding the flashforward concept/theory, maybe this visual would help:



So with this theory, there is one timeline instead of an alternate where the "flashbacks" happened. The theory is that orange line would continue right up until the future point where the time machine is activated and brings the Agents forward. So there's a loop that's happening that will probably be broken somehow and finally create a new timeline.

okdakor said:

Enoch goes back and send the team in the future

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Enoch explicitly stated in the past he was operating on only the information Robin was able to give him. He wasn't able to answer Fitz on where the monolith took the others or how to make the monolith activate because this was not part of the information he was given.

Toth said:

I still have a problem with the show wanting to exist in the Marvel universe but then disregarding the fact there are people like Dr. Strange, Tony Stark, and even the Inhumans who would likely stop the world from being cracked.

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They failed to stop it

Still wondering what Coulson's deal with Ghost Rider was and when we'll find out. Is it related to this, or another story arc later in the season. Coulson said he'd tell his team when the time was right, maybe he knew they were going to be sent to the future only to come back and save the world all along?

vivftp said:

Still wondering what Coulson's deal with Ghost Rider was and when we'll find out. Is it related to this, or another story arc later in the season. Coulson said he'd tell his team when the time was right, maybe he knew they were going to be sent to the future only to come back and save the world all along?

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I still feel like it has something to do with Infinity War. My assumption is that they want to do something with the character as they wrap up the Avengers movies, but they want him dead again before then so general audiences are less confused.

How dark would it be if they never break the time loop and this is how the series finale ends?

Htown said:

I still feel like it has something to do with Infinity War. My assumption is that they want to do something with the character as they wrap up the Avengers movies, but they want him dead again before then so general audiences are less confused.

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A life earned, a life spent.

This is way too confusing. Is Spider-Gwen here yet?

sketch_turntable said:

This is way too confusing. Is Spider-Gwen here yet?

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Dove Cameron is actually going to be a young Madam Webb who has Precognition across ALL. POSSIBLE. UNIVERSES!!

I KILL PXLS said:

For those not really understanding the flashforward concept/theory, maybe this visual would help:

So with this theory, there is one timeline instead of an alternate where the "flashbacks" happened. The theory is that orange line would continue right up until the future point where the time machine is activated and brings the Agents forward. So there's a loop that's happening that will probably be broken somehow and finally create a new timeline.

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Yo-yo does mention being annoyed that Robin keeps mentioning Flint, seemingly knowing that he will be born in 50 years but the thing I don't get with this is that it means that the crew work with the Kree despite knowing their end game with "helping" humanity.

KarmaCow said:

Yo-yo does mention being annoyed that Robin keeps mentioning Flint, seemingly knowing that he will be born in 50 years but the thing I don't get with this is that it means that the crew work with the Kree despite knowing their end game with "helping" humanity.

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May already says tho in the flashforward that they literally have no other choice. That is why Yo Yo splits off from the team.

vivftp said:

Still wondering what Coulson's deal with Ghost Rider was and when we'll find out. Is it related to this, or another story arc later in the season. Coulson said he'd tell his team when the time was right, maybe he knew they were going to be sent to the future only to come back and save the world all along?

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It's one of the first things they asked Coulson when they arrived in the future, he said this had nothing to do with the deal. So we'll find out later I guess.

Edit:

Preview for next episode

Please use spoilers to talk about the preview

Finally caught up, what's the general consensus on the season? Imo it started badly, but after Fitz's arrival it is good to awesome, although I hate the dirty grey corridors aesthetic and I'm not big on time-travel shenanigans in general

Also in last episode, literally a handful of aliens terrorizing the whole station, what the hell

adrem007 said:

Finally caught up, what's the general consensus on the season? Imo it started badly, but after Fitz's arrival it is good to awesome, although I hate the dirty grey corridors aesthetic and I'm not big on time-travel shenanigans in general

Also in last episode, literally a handful of aliens terrorizing the whole station, what the hell

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I think it's working out well. It is definitely paced differently than last Season. 8 episodes into S4, and they had already introduced and said goodbye Ghost Rider and made LMD seem a big threat. This season took it slower, but we were introduced to great characters like Sinara and Enoch. Regardless of where they go, I think Ep9 or 10 needs a "ah-ah" moment to keep the pace solid as right now the show could fall into the trap a lot of 22 episode shows do of keeping the status quo for too long - and possibly getting boring. I have faith that won't happen, as they learned a lot last season of how to avoid that pitfall.

Even though things have been moving relatively slow, I can't help but feel like crap will hit the fan soon...

Whenever there is time travel involved, I always defer to BTTF to see if it would make sense and I am not sure I can see how the events are even able to play out in SHIELD right now, especially after last weeks episode....

So, during the episode we keep seeing flashbacks to the team with Robin at some point in the future, most likely when the world breaks apart and then when they are living on the lighthouse, but how is that even possible if Enoch sends them to the future to prevent those very flashbacks from happening? The minute he snatches them from the diner and they travel through time to the future, then the timeline with them crashing the Zephyr and living on the lighthouse ceases to exist, right? Its like the whole 1985 vs 1985A timeline in BTTF2....

Maybe I am wrong, or maybe I am misinterpreting their idea of time travel, but those flashback scenes really irked me because there would be no way that those happened once the team was taken from the diner....

Parisi said:

Whenever there is time travel involved, I always defer to BTTF to see if it would make sense and I am not sure I can see how the events are even able to play out in SHIELD right now, especially after last weeks episode....

So, during the episode we keep seeing flashbacks to the team with Robin at some point in the future, most likely when the world breaks apart and then when they are living on the lighthouse, but how is that even possible if Enoch sends them to the future to prevent those very flashbacks from happening? The minute he snatches them from the diner and they travel through time to the future, then the timeline with them crashing the Zephyr and living on the lighthouse ceases to exist, right? Its like the whole 1985 vs 1985A timeline in BTTF2....

Maybe I am wrong, or maybe I am misinterpreting their idea of time travel, but those flashback scenes really irked me because there would be no way that those happened once the team was taken from the diner....

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That's because they are likely in the timeline where they weren't taken. Things diverged the moment they used the monolith. Robin has a memory of multiple timelines. Their return creates 1985b, but they are currently in 1985a

Parisi said:

Whenever there is time travel involved, I always defer to BTTF to see if it would make sense and I am not sure I can see how the events are even able to play out in SHIELD right now, especially after last weeks episode....

So, during the episode we keep seeing flashbacks to the team with Robin at some point in the future, most likely when the world breaks apart and then when they are living on the lighthouse, but how is that even possible if Enoch sends them to the future to prevent those very flashbacks from happening? The minute he snatches them from the diner and they travel through time to the future, then the timeline with them crashing the Zephyr and living on the lighthouse ceases to exist, right? Its like the whole 1985 vs 1985A timeline in BTTF2....

Maybe I am wrong, or maybe I am misinterpreting their idea of time travel, but those flashback scenes really irked me because there would be no way that those happened once the team was taken from the diner....

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I believe the flashbacks were from an alternate timeline as if they were never taken to the future.

Mandos said:

That's because they are likely in the timeline where they weren't taken. Things diverged the moment they used the monolith. Robin has a memory of multiple timelines. Their return creates 1985b, but they are currently in 1985a

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I explained this earlier but they are not in a different timeline. Fitz couldn't have joined with them via cryosleep otherwise, same with Enoch. This is one and the same timeline.

It's a flash forward to after they make their way back in time, but a flashback for Robin. Simple as that

Tetsujin said:

I explained this earlier but they are not in a different timeline. Fitz couldn't have joined with them via cryosleep otherwise. This is the one and the same timeline.

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Now my brain is scrambled. How could they be the same timeline? Fitz could have joined them because that's the timeline in which they were taken. In the flashbacks (my theory is that it's an alternate timeline) he wouldn't have needed to go to sleep because everyone was still there.

You're Protecteded said:

Now my brain is scrambled. How could they be the same timeline? Fitz could have joined them because that's the timeline in which they were taken. In the flashbacks (my theory is that it's an alternate timeline) he wouldn't have needed to go to sleep because everyone was still there.

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Here's my explanation: https://www.resetera.com/posts/3647038/

tl;dr the flashbacks are after they return from the future
It's Robin's past but the team's future.

Sigh, I hate time travel. However, pretty sure they will stop this future somehow. And we'll be on a new plot line on the second half back in the present, perhaps spurred by what they did to stop the future. They also need to rebuild shield

So, I wonder if Flint is going to be the actual destroyer of Worlds or if its a swerve and its still Daisy somehow...

Mandos said:

They also need to rebuild shield

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Let the past die.

fallengorn said:

Let the past die.

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Kill it if you have to.

fallengorn said:

Let the past die.

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Mariolee said:

Kill it if you have to.

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13 mins