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Pablo Mesa

Banned
Nov 23, 2017
6,878
how she feels that because she is 30 she is now too old for romance
im sure this is part a Trope and part a cultural thing in Japan around being single on the 30s.
More specifically to the series she quits cause she got bored out of the routine, not love related tho.


That will sure counter our point about how anime seems to be going more and more attracted towards characters looking younger!
I mean, most of the consumer base does cap at around 30s. so I see why anime stuff will target those on those ages and below tho. but once again it shift from Genre to Genre, if you are looking for Shonen Show with Mature women as MC, that is a hard bet
 

Oddish1

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,821
Remember when women were allowed to be over the age of...22 is the cutting point for old these days in anime, right?

Also, ANOTHER annoyance about XBC2, Blades are simultaneously both hundreds of years old AND younger than the driver by a point of years because how they work. Because they form out fully formed with all the skills of their predecessor but with no memory or emotional growth, they can be as old or as young as the waifu needs arise. Which again, goes back against the main point of the game being all about how objectification is wrong. Like, how do you have one point then spend the entire point sprinting in the opposite direction?
I don't understand how that's an example of objectification? Generally don't blades keep their emotional maturity? Dromarch acts as one of the oldest members of the party even though he has to have been activated sometime after Nia was born going by how it works. Blades lose their memories but this is deconstructed somewhat in the story with many blades dreading or trying to avoid it.
 

The Artisan

"Angels are singing in monasteries..."
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
8,132
starting up Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth 2 reminded me of how much I despised the female characters' designs.

Why does the detective dress like such a slut? What is the purpose?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,784
??? In the Shounen genre? You sure you don't mean the Seinen genre? And even then, I'd find more out of the Josei genre than the former two.

And yes, let's talk about an anime whose entire premise is about a successful career women in her 30's quitting her job to become a NEET because of how she feels that because she is 30 she is now too old for romance. That will sure counter our point about how anime seems to be going more and more attracted towards characters looking younger!

Romance isn't even mentioned in regards to why she quit. We don't know why she quit beyond being disallusioned with the real world, but it's implied there's some greater trauma at play there, but the novels are on hiatus so we haven't gotten there yet.
 

Choppasmith

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,415
Beaumont, CA
??? In the Shounen genre? You sure you don't mean the Seinen genre? And even then, I'd find more out of the Josei genre than the former two.

And yes, let's talk about an anime whose entire premise is about a successful career women in her 30's quitting her job to become a NEET because of how she feels that because she is 30 she is now too old for romance. That will sure counter our point about how anime seems to be going more and more attracted towards characters looking younger!

I agree with you that MMO Junkie is about as far from Shonen as you can get and doesn't solve the age problem of female characters on anime, but I'd say it was more about a woman who felt crippling social anxiety than romance issues. That's what I got from it anyway.
 

Twig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,486
??? In the Shounen genre? You sure you don't mean the Seinen genre? And even then, I'd find more out of the Josei genre than the former two.

And yes, let's talk about an anime whose entire premise is about a successful career women in her 30's quitting her job to become a NEET because of how she feels that because she is 30 she is now too old for romance. That will sure counter our point about how anime seems to be going more and more attracted towards characters looking younger!
I think that's an unfair interpretation of what's going through her mind. I feel like it's more about social anxiety than feeling too old for romance. It's just that the former often leads to the latter. Sure does for me :P

Granted... I haven't seen it. So I could be full of shit! But I've got a few friends I trust pretty strongly about this sort of thing and they confirm my impressions time and again as they keep taking about it, haha.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Romance isn't even mentioned in regards to why she quit. We don't know why she quit beyond being disallusioned with the real world, but it's implied there's some greater trauma at play there, but the novels are on hiatus so we haven't gotten there yet.
I think that's an unfair interpretation of what's going through her mind. I feel like it's more about social anxiety than feeling too old for romance. It's just that the former often leads to the latter. Sure does for me :P

Granted... I haven't seen it. So I could be full of shit! But I've got a few friends I trust pretty strongly about this sort of thing and they confirm my impressions time and again as they keep taking about it, haha.
I agree with you that MMO Junkie is about as far from Shonen as you can get and doesn't solve the age problem of female characters on anime, but I'd say it was more about a woman who felt crippling social anxiety than romance issues. That's what I got from it anyway.
Ok the whole point about me being sarcastic about that anime was because the person was coming into conversation with a "buuuuuuuut" then leaving us with one example when this wasn't the case when we were dicussing the growing normalizing trend. I don't care if this one anime is the exception to the rule and what I've seen of it, it looks decent, sure, but what's happening now is that we're talking about an anime I don't care about and ignoring the original point altogether, which was the annoyance of the fact that even in the general agelessness of anime faces, women are still getting progressively younger looking regardless of age.
 

Choppasmith

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,415
Beaumont, CA
Ok the whole point about me being sarcastic about that anime was because the person was coming into conversation with a "buuuuuuuut" then leaving us with one example when this wasn't the case when we were dicussing the growing normalizing trend. I don't care if this one anime is the exception to the rule and what I've seen of it, it looks decent, sure, but what's happening now is that we're talking about an anime I don't care about and ignoring the original point altogether, which was the annoyance of the fact that even in the general agelessness of anime faces, women are still getting progressively younger looking regardless of age.

Didn't intend to ignore your point just to nitpick and correct. Sorry.
 

Dmax3901

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,907
Pablo Mesa got banned for a week for posting a gamer gate comic in the fat representation thread. This may seem petty, I just think it's important to keep that in mind when he inevitably returns to this thread.

Back on-topic, I've been playing Gravity Rush 2 lately. How do people feel about Kat's design? Have she already been discussed?
latest
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,399
My hatred for high heels is well known at this point, but Kat can literally fly soooo I am not too fussed, for once. The costume is more "cute" than "sexy". I don't mind it. Kat is never sexualized in the game either though I dislike all those alt-costumes (they look stupid, not cool). Raven's costume is a bit more obnoxious, but it manages to remain tasteful enough at least.
 

Twig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,486
Ok the whole point about me being sarcastic about that anime was because the person was coming into conversation with a "buuuuuuuut" then leaving us with one example when this wasn't the case when we were dicussing the growing normalizing trend. I don't care if this one anime is the exception to the rule and what I've seen of it, it looks decent, sure, but what's happening now is that we're talking about an anime I don't care about and ignoring the original point altogether, which was the annoyance of the fact that even in the general agelessness of anime faces, women are still getting progressively younger looking regardless of age.
Well all right, that's fair. I just thought it was worth clarifying!
 

Valkyr1983

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,523
NH, United States
Pablo Mesa got banned for a week for posting a gamer gate comic in the fat representation thread. This may seem petty, I just think it's important to keep that in mind when he inevitably returns to this thread.

Back on-topic, I've been playing Gravity Rush 2 lately. How do people feel about Kat's design? Have she already been discussed?
latest

I loved Kat (haven't played 2 yet)

Although I find the maid and army costumes more fun to look at than the default, which is still great
 

Shingi_70

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,782
Something i don't get is why can't certain player's admit that just because they like something doesn't mean it's not problematic. I'm kind of interested in that SNk fighter and the new Soul Caliber game. Despite liking a few of the designs, i can fully admit they're problematic. I do sometimes feel like a hypocrite hating on shit like DOA when i buy sexy costumes for Street Fighter.
 

Dmax3901

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,907
My hatred for high heels is well known at this point, but Kat can literally fly soooo I am not too fussed, for once. The costume is more "cute" than "sexy". I don't mind it. Kat is never sexualized in the game either though I dislike all those alt-costumes (they look stupid, not cool). Raven's costume is a bit more obnoxious, but it manages to remain tasteful enough at least.
Cool!

I feel the same, the camera never treats her poorly and yeah her costume isn't ridiculous at all. She does a lot of kicking after all so having freedom of movement in the legs makes sense.

There's kinda this vibe that her character suits her clothes and that she's comfortable in them.
 

4Tran

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,531
Cool!

I feel the same, the camera never treats her poorly and yeah her costume isn't ridiculous at all. She does a lot of kicking after all so having freedom of movement in the legs makes sense.

There's kinda this vibe that her character suits her clothes and that she's comfortable in them.
And that's really the key. If a design effectively communicates what the character is supposed to be, then it's probably going to be a good design. In Kat's case, the high heels are a bit much, but other than that, she's pretty cool.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
With Kat, what are the strips/bands on her legs supposed to be? Are they like a metal thigh-bracelet thing (which seems a bit restrictive considering how much kicking and jumping she does) or are they just cool detail on her tights?
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
So I'll be the first to admit that fan service usually doesn't bother me. But there are times when I see something so silly even I have to laugh at it.

I just started Fate/Grand Order and I know it's a kinda a waifu series but still. It's interesting to see there interpretations of myth and legends. And then you get stuff like this.


Presenting Sir Francis Drake!
latest
 

Deleted member 35077

Self-requested ban
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
3,999
Those slutty outfits aren't the reason I bought the game. Bandai Nampo really did not have faith in the game selling without sexualizing the females?

Yes, after Frontier bombed the series was in a bad place for a couple years with each follow up bringing lower ratings, got so bad only one percent of the country was watching " Young Hunters". The only sucess came with the Re: Digitize game, a game with an adult audience in mind.

With kids gone they decided to target adults using nostalgic with the "Tri" movies and fanservice for everything else not Adventures related.

Good thing about all that is that it brought people attention to series and a new anime was made with kids in mind, even got mild sucess with five percent retention rate of viewers.
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,908
JP
Something i don't get is why can't certain player's admit that just because they like something doesn't mean it's not problematic. I'm kind of interested in that SNk fighter and the new Soul Caliber game. Despite liking a few of the designs, i can fully admit they're problematic. I do sometimes feel like a hypocrite hating on shit like DOA when i buy sexy costumes for Street Fighter.
I've learned that this is asking way too much from people. Gamers are rather simple minded - I like this game, it's literally perfect. And this person who made this game I like is a genius and a 神様 (translator note: 神様 means based god).
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
Something i don't get is why can't certain player's admit that just because they like something doesn't mean it's not problematic. I'm kind of interested in that SNk fighter and the new Soul Caliber game. Despite liking a few of the designs, i can fully admit they're problematic. I do sometimes feel like a hypocrite hating on shit like DOA when i buy sexy costumes for Street Fighter.

As someone who likes some questionable designs I think I know one reason. People don't want to admit that something they like has issues because they feel like it means there bad. It's how I used to feel anyway.

Same reason people act hostile if someone insults those designs or call them offensive. People who like those designs will sometimes feel like that's a personal attack on there personal character.

I obviously can't speak for everyone but that's how I used to feel seeing these conversations and I wouldn't be surprised if that's why others act hostile in these types of conversations.
 

Kapus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
744
Under your bed
Kat's outfit isn't egregiously sexualized or impractical. Looks fine to me. I'm indifferent to the heels.

I think it's a pretty good design actually. It's simplistic enough in a charming way and the colors come together very nicely. It's neat.
 

Shingi_70

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,782
As someone who likes some questionable designs I think I know one reason. People don't want to admit that something they like has issues because they feel like it means there bad. It's how I used to feel anyway.

Same reason people act hostile if someone insults those designs or call them offensive. People who like those designs will sometimes feel like that's a personal attack on there personal character.

I obviously can't speak for everyone but that's how I used to feel seeing these conversations and I wouldn't be surprised if that's why others act hostile in these types of conversations.

I do wonder how many of these fans have female gamer friends, or friends who bring it up pretty often. Especially alot of gamers who spend alot of time on the internet and get the whole SJW hates my games echo chamber.
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
I haven't played Gravity Rush so I don't know how the game treats her, but to me Kat just looks like yet another generically cute/sexy female character. Her outfit is revealing in a more tasteful way than usual (which says a lot), but it's still revealing. I'm not a fan.
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
106,011
Pablo Mesa got banned for a week for posting a gamer gate comic in the fat representation thread. This may seem petty, I just think it's important to keep that in mind when he inevitably returns to this thread.

Yea I saw that, suspect af

Back on-topic, I've been playing Gravity Rush 2 lately. How do people feel about Kat's design? Have she already been discussed?
latest

Agree with Morrigan on the heels. You quickly get over it, but it does seem particularly egregious since she controls gravity, which includes sliding on the ground, so you'd think that she of all people would definitely want to forgo the heels. But oh well. And yea, the game treats her very well, no unnecessary sexualization and such, an upgrade from the first game that had a totally unwarranted scene involving her and a towel. Her additional outfits all have proper context behind them, whether you get them in preparation to do a sidequest, or through the story itself. The ones you get in-game are very tasteful overall, so thank goodness for that.

That said, the DLC ones are less so. One of them is 2B's outfit. The divisiveness over 2B's outfit aside, I think it speaks for itself as to how it undeniably becomes even more awkward when worn by a girl that can shift gravity. Makes it insanely easy to get an accidental upskirt shot. And it's not like they don't know how to sidestep that issue, she has a red dress outfit she can wear that at first glance would also seem to give you unnecessary peeks when she's shifting gravity. Yet when you're actually start flying around, you can't see anything. And then you have the most egregious outfit, from a collaboration with Phantasy Star Online 2, and it's just a gaudy, oversexualized mess, so that was pretty disheartening. On the bright side, it's optional DLC, so you aren't forced to interact with it at all at least.

As for her standard outfit, the heels aside, I'm a fan of it. Looks very unique and fitting for her.

There's a 4 koma or something on that.
Here it is:
gravity-rush-2-01-12-17-1-871x1024.jpg

Lol, there's even a GIF version of it:

XHKzx7y.gif


Legit looks like she's wearing a trash bag at the beginning lol
 

Deleted member 35077

Self-requested ban
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
3,999
Agree with Morrigan on the heels. You quickly get over it, but it does seem particularly egregious since she controls gravity, which includes sliding on the ground, so you'd think that she of all people would definitely want to forgo the heels.

I think the reason no one bats an eye whenever a character wears heels in Japan is that it has become normalized. You see it everywhere in anime from Shonen action shows to Magical girl shows aimed at little girls. l don't really see it ever loosing relevance unless a big cultural movement happens.
 

SieteBlanco

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,878
From Sailor Moon to Precure, most characters from shows aimed at little girls wear heels. At least if they have a magical transformation of sorts.

The 3 most recent Precure seasons:
latest

precure.jpg

HUG_precure_01.jpg
 
Dec 24, 2017
131
Michigan
I'm super intolerant of problematic content and design. Not in a casting judgement on people kind of way. More in a "your money spent is your vote towards what's acceptable and you shouldn't be lax about that if you truly desire change like you say you do" sort of manner. I've passed on so many games by following this ideal. Makes me pretty useless in goty discussions, but it does make the games I'm comfortable with enough to buy feel really special.
 

The Artisan

"Angels are singing in monasteries..."
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
8,132
Yes, after Frontier bombed the series was in a bad place for a couple years with each follow up bringing lower ratings, got so bad only one percent of the country was watching " Young Hunters". The only sucess came with the Re: Digitize game, a game with an adult audience in mind.

With kids gone they decided to target adults using nostalgic with the "Tri" movies and fanservice for everything else not Adventures related.

Good thing about all that is that it brought people attention to series and a new anime was made with kids in mind, even got mild sucess with five percent retention rate of viewers.
What is Frontier?

Also, these games are moderately successful I am assuming. I have no way of proving it, but I do not believe for a second that the reason people bought them is because of the outrageous outfits seen on the girls. They are just fun games.
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,419
The English Wilderness
From Sailor Moon to Precure, most characters from shows aimed at little girls wear heels. At least if they have a magical transformation of sorts.

The 3 most recent Precure seasons:
latest

precure.jpg

HUG_precure_01.jpg

They just look so horribly over-designed (and five years younger than I imagine they're supposed to be)...

So I'll be the first to admit that fan service usually doesn't bother me. But there are times when I see something so silly even I have to laugh at it.

I just started Fate/Grand Order and I know it's a kinda a waifu series but still. It's interesting to see there interpretations of myth and legends. And then you get stuff like this.

Presenting Sir Francis Drake!
latest

I mean, this has to be satire, right? It's got to be! Like the idea of Donald Tru-oh.
 

Deleted member 35077

Self-requested ban
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
3,999
What is Frontier?

Also, these games are moderately successful I am assuming. I have no way of proving it, but I do not believe for a second that the reason people bought them is because of the outrageous outfits seen on the girls. They are just fun games.

The one with the kids transforming into the Digimon.

They just look so horribly over-designed (and five years younger than I imagine they're supposed to be)...

Except for a few exception, all Precure girls are 13 to 14 years old.
 

Snormy

I'll think about it
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,131
Morizora's Forest
I agree with Morrigan that Kat is more "cute" than "sexualised". I think Raven has the worse offender. To the point where a costume swap with A2 in this artwork actually makes Raven look better to me.
latest


Kat is never sexualized in the game

Maybe I am over thinking it but I remember rolling my eyes and being a little disappointed at mandatory towel scenes or lazing about naked in the comic strips. Mostly the first game I think. It is mostly mild but it is just there like a mark of annoyance at the back of my mind when I think about it, especially when considering how young she is.
Probably NSFW?
 

Twig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,486
So I'll be the first to admit that fan service usually doesn't bother me. But there are times when I see something so silly even I have to laugh at it.

I just started Fate/Grand Order and I know it's a kinda a waifu series but still. It's interesting to see there interpretations of myth and legends. And then you get stuff like this.


Presenting Sir Francis Drake!
latest
Nah you can tell those boobs are just part of the costume/disguise. Compare the skin color of the cleavage to the face and hands, it's not the same. (???????????????????)
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,296
Nah you can tell those boobs are just part of the costume/disguise. Compare the skin color of the cleavage to the face and hands, it's not the same. (???????????????????)
Not to mention that her breasts are also glistening? From uh... glitter? These are the weirdest post-processing effects I've seen in a while... and so creepily specific too.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
Like I knew this game had some really fanservicy designs, I expected that. But then I pull that with the name "Francis Drake" and I just bust out laughing.

For comparison sake I also pulled Oda Nobunaga.
latest
 

Deleted member 32561

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 11, 2017
3,831
Honestly I don't feel like Drake would be any bad if she wore a shirt and said shirt wasn't skintight. Maybe that's just me though.
Edit: Not meaning to dismiss any criticism of the design. I'm just saying I think it's an easy fix, from my perspective, compared to some of the other FGO designs like, oh, say, Scheherazade.
Edit 2: No idea if this is NSFW but I'd still not click on it unless you're not in a work setting, personally.
x
Yes. That's Schehrazade. Mad isn't it? How does it even stay on? :( Poor thing.
 
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Al3x1s

Banned
Nov 13, 2017
2,824
Greece
I read the OP and don't see what was left for discussion. But I guess I missed something given this is over 200 pages long.

Just, agreed, it's lame when it makes the setting inconsistent.
 

Deleted member 18021

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,000
Like, I love the original Saber design, but outside of that, where the designs have gone in Fate since then have only pushed me away from trying to get into it.
 

Deleted member 32561

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 11, 2017
3,831
Like, I love the original Saber design, but outside of that, where the designs have gone in Fate since then have only pushed me away from trying to get into it.
FWIW it's mostly FateGO that's the issue. No better way to get gacha money than shoving titties or (far far worse, imo) underage looking girls in skimpy outfits in there for the otaku to buy up. The other Fate series are less fanservicey, afaik.
 
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