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The "You can only complain about the moderation to the moderation" rule is bad. There's a solution.

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PogiJones

PogiJones

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Oct 27, 2017
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(I wanted more nuance in the title, but it wouldn't fit.)

"You can only complain about your teacher to your teacher. You can't talk to other students about it."
"You can only complain about the police to the police. You can't talk to other people about it."
"You can only complain about your parents to your parents. You can't talk to other people about it."

I'm sure all three of those sound terrible to most of us, yet that is the rule in place here on this forum.

This place said it would have transparency in moderation activities, which it does. Warnings and bans are clearly displayed. Yet, transparency without accountability is impotent.

However, the rule makes some sense: You don't want every thread derailed with complaints about moderation.

So what's the solution, where the community can voice discontent (and resolve each others' concerns) without derailing threads? An Etcetera Hangouts thread dedicated to moderation complaints and/or site issues.

This would keep threads from being derailed, and would not be prominently viewed on any of the main pages. It would allow this transparency so advocated by the site to have the desired effect of keeping the authorities' behavior somewhat in check with community feedback. It would allow disgruntled posters to say their peace and move on, even if no changes are made. Sometimes people just need to say, "That was dumb," and not allow it to fester into resentment.

I really think it would make the site a better place for everyone, including mods, because they'll get a better finger on the pulse of the community.
 
Alucrid

Alucrid

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have you ever tried contacting a moderator or administrator with questions or concerns regarding the site's policies?
 
Book One

Book One

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All three of those examples kind of feel like they'd be approached the same way in the real world
 

Tideas

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
553
Alucrid said:
have you ever tried contacting a moderator or administrator with questions or concerns regarding the site's policies?
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I've tried 4 times. Gotten 0 response each time. I also find the moderation in terms of warnings and bans are very..inconsistent. i'm getting a lot of deja vu with how it was back at gaf...
 
Squarehard

Squarehard

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Oct 27, 2017
26,258
Why do we need a thread when you can just message a mod?
Tideas said:
I've tried 4 times. Gotten 0 response each time. I also find the moderation in terms of warnings and bans are very..inconsistent. i'm getting a lot of deja vu with how it was back at gaf...
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I've contacted a lot of mods recently, and never had an issue getting a response.

Maybe it depends on which mods?

I'm not sure how active they all are all the time, but the ones I've messaged have been great.
 
OP
OP
PogiJones

PogiJones

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Oct 27, 2017
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Alucrid said:
did it not go the way you wanted and thus why you're creating this thread? just curious as to the impetus of it
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No, I've never run into moderation trouble personally. The impetus is I've thought it was a bad policy ever since it was implemented. I'm a very policy-oriented person, and that's a bad one.
Squarehard said:
Why do we need a thread when you can just message a mod?
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You don't see the irony in that?
 
Border

Border

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Oct 25, 2017
14,859
What has been the response when you have contacted moderators?

The problem with the previous forum was that if you complained on the forum you were chastised and told to privately contact moderators, and if you sent an email to the moderation staff you were completely ignored.
 
Mezoly

Mezoly

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Oct 25, 2017
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I agree with op. This is a new forum and there are a lot of undefined lines and inconsistencies. A hangout thread would clear the air much better than PMs.
 
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Dmax3901

Dmax3901

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Oct 25, 2017
8,060
PogiJones said:
It would allow disgruntled posters to say their peace and move on, even if no changes are made. Sometimes people just need to say, "That was dumb," and not allow it to fester into resentment.
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To these people I would say: grow up?

Nothing about the suggested solution can't be done by pm'ing a mod, why does their need to be an audience?
 
DreamMakers

DreamMakers

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Jan 11, 2018
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Yep, i think its a workable idea, but it wont work in the long run. Asking a mod to look at another mods work is a bad idea, they are all friends afterall
 
Oligarchenemy

Oligarchenemy

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Oct 25, 2017
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xxracerxx said:
That thread would be a terrible idea as it would just become a place to talk shit about moderators.
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That's pretty much what these threads turn in to. And people like to lump the moderation in to one hive mind, which simply isn't the case. Contact an admin or a different moderator.

DreamMakers said:
Yep, i think its a workable idea, but it wont work in the long run. Asking a mod to look at another mods work is a bad idea, they are all friends afterall
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Case and point
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
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It's an internet forum. Getting warned and banned is just some banter with the mates.

A perm is a different matter. That is a declaration of War.
 
OP
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PogiJones

PogiJones

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Oct 27, 2017
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Ferrio said:
Because there's a higher authority to go to, who are you going to beyond the mods/admin?
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So you'd be okay with not being able to complain about Congress except to Congress? That would fit your criteria.

Sometimes the "higher authority" is the community, and it benefits everyone--including those trying to shape the community--to allow the community to express its concerns openly.
 
DreamMakers

DreamMakers

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Dmax3901 said:
Got any examples?
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Aziz, look at the first thread and look at the second one about the Babe article. People where warned for victim blaming, but when those same comments where made in the second thread there where no bans or warnings, and to be fair the discussion flowed allot better in the second thread without the fear of being warned
 
Ferrio

Ferrio

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PogiJones said:
Sometimes the "higher authority" is the community, and it benefits everyone--including those trying to shape the community--to allow the community to express its concerns openly.
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So far doesn't sound like the community thinks your idea is a good one. Sounds like a channel just to air grievances that would just lead to distrust and scorn.

If there's some big injustice taking place then make the thread about that, and not about a channel of general bitching?
 
subpar spatula

subpar spatula

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Oct 26, 2017
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I was accused of liking 15-year-olds because I made a joke about gtaphic Ts. It stemmed from the guy disliking me for criticizing MCU. Reported it. Nothing. Reported it again. Nothing. I am sure the mods are fine, but eh. Just gotta accept they have the say and move on.
 
Moff

Moff

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Oct 26, 2017
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I agree with the OP. When it was decided that this was supposed to be a fresh start with transparency I hoped moderation would be handled better than GAFs "if you have have questions about moderation, message a mod" policy, which was notoriously ignored and basically just a convenient way to shut down any kind of public disagreement with moderation. ERA is still new and can choose a better way to handle this.
 
julia crawford

julia crawford

Took the red AND the blue pills
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Oct 27, 2017
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It's not impotent, it's a clear delineation of values that we are supposed to share in participating in this forum.
 

Deleted member 3968

Account closed at user request
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I don't think we need a dedicated thread for complaints. Most bans are quite self evident. As for consistency, mods just need to actually enforce the rules and stop giving ppl slaps on the wrist instead of actual times outs. Which to be fair seems to be finally happening.
 
makonero

makonero

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Oct 27, 2017
9,764
yes lets have a "bitch about the moderation team" thread

that doesn't sound like a trap at all
 
HStallion

HStallion

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Oct 25, 2017
63,154
Maybe we should open a thread for the Alt Right to complain openly about the moderation and community as well if we're going there.
 
SteveWinwood

SteveWinwood

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Oct 25, 2017
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USA USA USA
PogiJones said:
Feel free to say why they're not analogous, or provide better ones.
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If the teacher made a decision that I disagreed with I would certainly be able to complain about it to her personally or my friends out of class. You're welcome to complain all you want about it on any other platform of your choice. But raising my hand and addressing it with everyone in the middle of class would not have been accepted.

The same in a business meeting.

Or a town hall meeting.
 
Saganator

Saganator

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Oct 26, 2017
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I think an anonymous suggestion box system would be better. Mods could post some of the suggestions with an official response to it as well. This is what my old employer did and it seemed to work for the most part, but using it for a message board might not be too great since it'll just get abused.
 
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