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What tendency/ideology do you best align with?

  • Anarchism

    Votes: 125 12.0%
  • Marxism

    Votes: 86 8.2%
  • Marxism-Leninism

    Votes: 79 7.6%
  • Left Communism

    Votes: 19 1.8%
  • Democratic Socialism

    Votes: 423 40.6%
  • Social Democracy

    Votes: 238 22.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 73 7.0%

  • Total voters
    1,043

Deleted member 721

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ex-president of Brazil (2002-2010) Lula (labor party) sentenced to prison 12 years. Probably arrested nex month, maybe house arrest due to age.
 

Deleted member 721

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10,416
its fucked up

1964 Jango leftist president - coup, dictatorship
lula first lpresident from the left since the end of dictatorship - prison
Dilma second president from left - impeachment

its criminalization of the left, with support of the law and media.
 

House_Of_Lightning

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Sounds like the Left is politically neutered.

Burn it down and start it over with people who are willing to fight like their adversaries.
 

Deleted member 721

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10,416
It's fucked up that Brazil IS considered a democracy, If Its a right Wing government that is selling the country for the first world everything IS Fine. Give a fake Sense that the law IS respected And then democracy Exists.

Liberal burgeoise democracy Is a piece of shit.

I'm not a lula man, but the right Wing and the system is disgusting and hypocrite.
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,978
Sounds like the Left is politically neutered.

Burn it down and start it over with people who are willing to fight like their adversaries.
I'll continue to disagree with this, depending on what you mean by "fight like their adversaries". The idea that the ways in which we engage and fight are cleanly extricable from the politics we want to practice is, well, incorrect. When we pursue power by fighting ruthlessly and brutally then we normalize ruthless brutality in pursuit of goals. Its not trivial to just "turn that knob down" when it then comes time to figure out how to distribute food or organize labor
 

House_Of_Lightning

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The "ruthless" and "brutal" outcome of Social Democracy is Stalinism so yeah, you're right.

In the US we have a similar problem where Democrats are always wanting to reach across the aisle while Republicans steadily maintain and build networks to rig the system in their favor.
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
There are better, deeper, and more constructive ways of unpacking these issues than going "lol white feminism".
My statement wasn't "lol white feminism" though. It was a statement about the same old tired behaviour.

There's nothing shallow about calling out White privilege and white feminism. These issues (including the Chelsea Manning one) are rooted in, and empowered by white privilege and white feminism.

Both WP and WF must absolutely addressed in the left (as well as society in general) because of the harm and marginalisation that it's doing (and has done) to P.O.C, LGBTQ and other minorities communities.
 

syndicalist

Member
Oct 25, 2017
467
Did you folks read the article Jack Smith wrote about the Chelsea Affair?
https://mic.com/articles/187585/thi...manning-partied-with-the-far-right#.TKS0kCBhF

Taking all testimony in good faith, it would confirm a few things. Fairbanks remains a Chelsea fangirl and acted as the latter's access to each of these event, indicating at the very least that Chelsea didn't give any financial support for these awful people. All interactions and photo-ops were out of civility rather than sympathy or, necessarily, familiarity. This was an attempt at "reconnaissance", as she initially claimed.. possibly even during photo of her playing Cards Against Humanity with Wintrich. Yuck.

I'm not going to take the hysterical liberal side and call her a sleeper agent, nor will I say she's put on an anti-fascist facade this past year, but I do think her judgment in this matter is undeniably questionable and that she acted with extreme naivete. Obviously, reconnaissance of this sort is best done through infiltration and certainly not with celebrity. But these people do not need to be watched closely. They reveal their inanity and menace quite well on their own. I feel bad for her, possibly losing the vindication shelf felt by the ardently support of most leftists after living through 7 years of torture. But I do not at all blame the reaction this has received. I think her candidacy is a lost cause, if it ever had legs to begin with. Hopefully she can find her place again on the left, supporting the movement rather than remaining in the spotlight as some sort of icon.
 

Suicide King

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,018
its fucked up

1964 Jango leftist president - coup, dictatorship
lula first lpresident from the left since the end of dictatorship - prison
Dilma second president from left - impeachment

its criminalization of the left, with support of the law and media.
In Lula's case, it's more because was corrupt, and PT is just barely left leaning. The worst part of this is that he'll probably the only one, since there are worse politicians that won't ever be judged. Still, I can't bring myself to cry for a white rich guy getting into trouble for stealing.
 

Deleted member 721

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10,416
In Lula's case, it's more because was corrupt, and PT is just barely left leaning. The worst part of this is that he'll probably the only one, since there are worse politicians that won't ever be judged. Still, I can't bring myself to cry for a white rich guy getting into trouble for stealing.
Lula was not arrested for stealing, he was arrested because he's from the left
 

Deleted member 721

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10,416
Well, you're just misinforming people.

But hey, you do you
It's in front of everyone that lula was arrested now so he cant be president.

- acceleration of the process line by the judges
- problematic testimony
- weak evidences
- inquisitory partial judge
- media coverage


You are invalidating any critic of this judgement with misinformation, when it's valid critic.

And If you are saying this you must probably be not from the left and wants to troll.
 

House_Of_Lightning

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Oct 29, 2017
5,048
My statement wasn't "lol white feminism" though. It was a statement about the same old tired behaviour.

There's nothing shallow about calling out White privilege and white feminism. These issues (including the Chelsea Manning one) are rooted in, and empowered by white privilege and white feminism.

Both WP and WF must absolutely addressed in the left (as well as society in general) because of the harm and marginalisation that it's doing (and has done) to P.O.C, LGBTQ and other minorities communities.


sloganeering.txt
 

PlayDat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
193
My statement wasn't "lol white feminism" though. It was a statement about the same old tired behaviour.

There's nothing shallow about calling out White privilege and white feminism. These issues (including the Chelsea Manning one) are rooted in, and empowered by white privilege and white feminism.

Both WP and WF must absolutely addressed in the left (as well as society in general) because of the harm and marginalisation that it's doing (and has done) to P.O.C, LGBTQ and other minorities communities.

White feminism is absolutely worthy of critique, but it's not relevant to the Manning story. I've literally never seen her refer to herself as a feminist even once. If you have any evidence please share it! Every woman with a public persona get activist labels slapped on them whether they asked for it or not then gets shit for not living up to their presumed ideals. It's not fair.

Did you folks read the article Jack Smith wrote about the Chelsea Affair?
https://mic.com/articles/187585/thi...manning-partied-with-the-far-right#.TKS0kCBhF

Taking all testimony in good faith, it would confirm a few things. Fairbanks remains a Chelsea fangirl and acted as the latter's access to each of these event, indicating at the very least that Chelsea didn't give any financial support for these awful people. All interactions and photo-ops were out of civility rather than sympathy or, necessarily, familiarity. This was an attempt at "reconnaissance", as she initially claimed.. possibly even during photo of her playing Cards Against Humanity with Wintrich. Yuck.

I'm not going to take the hysterical liberal side and call her a sleeper agent, nor will I say she's put on an anti-fascist facade this past year, but I do think her judgment in this matter is undeniably questionable and that she acted with extreme naivete. Obviously, reconnaissance of this sort is best done through infiltration and certainly not with celebrity. But these people do not need to be watched closely. They reveal their inanity and menace quite well on their own. I feel bad for her, possibly losing the vindication shelf felt by the ardently support of most leftists after living through 7 years of torture. But I do not at all blame the reaction this has received. I think her candidacy is a lost cause, if it ever had legs to begin with. Hopefully she can find her place again on the left, supporting the movement rather than remaining in the spotlight as some sort of icon.

"I should have been more careful about these situations and done more to prevent this chaos," Cassandra Fairbanks, the right-wing social media personality who brought Manning to the party, told Mic. "I should have been a better friend."

After this story was published, Manning called Mic to insist that Fairbanks was never a "trusted confidante."

"'Trusted confidante' implies I'm providing them information, which I'm not," Manning told Mic. "They barely got anything from me. I didn't trust them with anything."

Instead, she said of the right wingers she's met that she "viewed them as sources, but nothing more." But what about Fairbanks and others' assertion that the two of them had a friendship? Would she consider Fairbanks a friend?

"Hell no."


Hahaha!
7U8i2Qm.gif



After leaving, Manning tweeted that she had "crashed the fascist/white supremacist hate brigade party," and that she "learned in prison that the best way to confront your enemies is face-to-face in their space."

This is disingenuous as fuck because what she did in the escape room and later on at the Night for Freedom party was not confrontation.

"We kept the entire thing very surface level," Posobiec told Mic. "We talked about the escape room, and joked about that. Everyone made it a point not to bring up politics that night."

Manning's friend claims the following.

"This was part of a larger campaign that she undertook to get close to the alt-right for the purposes of undermining them and learning about them," Manning's friend told Mic. "She wanted to do something about what's going on in this country with fascists and Nazis having cocktail parties in Manhattan."

but

Those on the right, on the other hand, were quick to brag about how civil they'd been to Manning

Had she gotten into detailed policy discussion or even broader talks about their conflicting views, I doubt they'd have been so polite to her. The left keeps trying to take to moral high ground and gets fucked over time and time again. The media has dramatically overplayed the political power of the alt-right/alt-light and I fear Manning may have fallen for it.

If you're going to share air them you need to be spending the majority of your time challenging their beliefs. Anything else is worthless "reaching across the aisle" onanism.


This leaves me somewhat hopeful. She knows this was a massive fuck up. I don't think is the end for her campaign. Donald Trump was a joke candidate not too long ago.
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
How am sloganeering ?

And why are you always so dismissive when i bring this topic up ?
White feminism is absolutely worthy of critique, but it's not relevant to the Manning story. I've literally never seen her refer to herself as a feminist even once. If you have any evidence please share it! Every woman with a public persona get activist labels slapped on them whether they asked for it or not then gets shit for not living up to their presumed ideals. It's not fair.
Please don't misunderstand, i'm not saying it just because she's a woman in the public eye. (i'm not some horrible MRA/Red pill person)

The reason i referred to her specifically was because of this tweet. Which smacks to me of WP and WF, because of her response. She meets with Nazis then says we're all in this together. Nah you can't have it both ways. (referring to her, not you)


I sincerely hope i haven't given the wrong impression of myself to you by bringing this up.

If so, then i apologise for any misunderstanding caused on my part.
 

PlayDat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
193
Please don't misunderstand, i'm not saying it just because she's a woman in the public eye. (i'm not some horrible MRA/Red pill person)

The reason i referred to her specifically was because of this tweet. Which smacks to me of WP and WF, because of her response. She meets with Nazis then says we're all in this together. Nah you can't have it both ways. (referring to her, not you)


I sincerely hope i haven't given the wrong impression of myself to you by bringing this up.

If so, then i apologise for any misunderstanding caused on my part.


It's all good! You're okay in my book.
 
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
Organized Labor's Growing Class Divide
Why have high-profile organizing campaigns succeeded for white-collar workers and failed for blue-collar workers?

...

Labor advocates are declaring the wins for white-collar workers a new front for organizing, and indeed, labor has been making some progress in expanding its reach among educated workers. The number of people employed in professional and technical occupations who are members of unions grew by almost 90,000 last year, according to numbers released last week by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The fields of law, arts, design, entertainment, sports, and media all saw substantial gains in the share of workers who are in unions, ticking up from around 4 percent in 2010 to around 7 in 2017.

But these gains for unions are in stark contrast to the many high-profile failed efforts to organize less-educated workers in other parts of the country, usually outside cities. In 2017, after years of organizing, the United Auto Workers lost a bid to form a union at a Nissan plant in Mississippi. They failed to organize a Chinese-owned auto-glass plant in Ohio in November. The UAW similarly lost a bid to organize a Volkswagen plant in Tennessee in 2014. On January 19, for example, the NLRB announced that media employees at the Los Angeles Times and professional employees at a Pennsylvania charter school each voted to join a union. That same day the NLRB announced that drivers at a bakery in New Jersey, drivers at a freight company in New York, and drivers for the Hy-Vee grocery chain in Iowa all voted against joining a union, according to NLRB data.

...

The contrast, between the growing numbers of educated workers joining unions and the shrinking pool of blue-collar workers doing so, is yet another dynamic of an increasingly bifurcated American economy. As jobs for educated workers continue to proliferate in this economy, educated workers feel secure, sure that they'll be able to find more work if they lose their jobs. In some cases, that security may mean they feel they can advocate for a union, or stand up to employer threats to shut the workplace down if a union forms. Blue-collar workers, by contrast, are competing for a smaller and smaller share of jobs in the economy, and thus may feel less willing to commit to labor drives...

...

This difference in who is joining unions could create further bifurcation in the economy, as workers who are already relatively stable become even more protected by unions, while workers who feel themselves in a tenuous position have fewer places to turn for problems like wage and hour violations, sexual-harassment claims, or unfair termination. Union employees are also better positioned to negotiate wage increases than non-union employees—non-union employees make 80 percent of what union employees do,according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

...

Part of the divergence between white- and blue-collar workers may also have to do with where union drives are taking place. Many white-collar workers live in big cities like New York and Los Angeles, where workers are likely to be more liberal and supportive of unions than in other places, and where owners (with obviousexceptions) may be less likely to embark on anti-union campaigns because of public pressure. But increasingly, manufacturing and production jobs are located in the South, where anti-union attitudes are most persistent....

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2018/01/union-organizing-media-white-collar/551453/

More at the link
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,978
Organized Labor's Growing Class Divide
Why have high-profile organizing campaigns succeeded for white-collar workers and failed for blue-collar workers?



https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2018/01/union-organizing-media-white-collar/551453/

More at the link
This seems like an incredibly important microcosm of larger divisions within (deliberate and spontaneous) movements to organize labor. I'm not entirely sure I buy the article's premise that "job security" explains the success of white collar unions either, particularly among the media fields (ask anyone making content for a media website how secure they feel that their industry will have a job for them, they'll laugh in your face)

White-collar workers may also have an easier time doing the work to organize a union. Many Gothamist workers were young and didn't have children, so were able to go to meetings after work, Scott Heins, 29, who worked full-time as a photographer and reporter for Gothamist for two years and was on the Gothamistorganizing committee, told me. Blue-collar workers are often older, and have families to support. And, since white-collar employees don't work on the factory floor all day, they are less physically exhausted at the end of the day. Additionally, the access to information technology that white-collar workers have can make it easier to communicate with other employees throughout the company.
This, to me, is a more plausible hypothesis

Also this is one way in which UBI may actually be a major driver for change: if the article is correct and fear of losing their job is a primary reason why blue-collar jobs, even at lower wage levels, don't unionize, than removing the fear of "if I lose this job I literally can't pay for my kids to eat" should significantly help people feel comfortable organizing
 
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House_Of_Lightning

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I get the impression that their exposure to white collar workers is relevant only to white collar workers in major metropolitan areas like NYC, and even more so, cultural and vanity intelligentsia positions. The source cited here is a photographer and reporter, fairly far removed from white collar jobs associated with the energy industry, oil fields, agriculture, etc etc etc.

There are plenty of anti union white collar workers in the rest of the country.

Additionally, the access to information technology that white-collar workers have can make it easier to communicate with other employees throughout the company.

This is a stupid assessment. The heyday and pinnacle of union power was before "information technology" even existed.
 
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House_Of_Lightning

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5,048
How am sloganeering ?

And why are you always so dismissive when i bring this topic up ?

You know what, I'm being unfair. You're right. Manning is your typical garbage white liberal "woke" Leftist who comes from a bourgeoisie mindset. She is the poster child of awful the white people bourgie leftism that is the modern American Left and her ideas are endemic of the white "left" and a whole and are completely created from it.



No Tankies plzkthx.
 

Lafiel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
311
Melbourne, Australia
Angela Davis is probably better as a thinker and writer than as a activist as her track record as a party activist in history was being part of the communist party of the USA which was part of the comintern when she was a member, which these-days is a reformist outfit that just tells people to vote for the democrats.

I saw her speak a few years ago in Australia and thought the political line she was giving was pretty good though and made these great point about how refugee rights movements around the world is the "civil rights" movement in the 21st century.
 

Deleted member 721

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Most commies and thinkers of the time are stalinists, only after a good time they Lost strenght and trots from traitor commies to be accepted and become the dominant group, but i dont think that If Someone was a tankie in the past she should be vilanized, and even If she still supports this, there's some good articles, etc that they make that we should Read and are interesting worth of praise even.

For example another stalinist is Frida Kahlo
 
Jan 7, 2018
840
For example another stalinist is Frida Kahlo
Are you sure? She was a personal friend of Trotsky and even had an affair with him. I mean, it's not like I've searched, but this is the first time I've heard of her being an stalinist, and this would be quite strange considering how close she was to Trotsky.
 
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House_Of_Lightning

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She disavowed him completely and practically deified Stalin.

But really, Trotskyism and Stalinism are different sides of the same coin.
 

Deleted member 721

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Are you sure? She was a personal friend of Trotsky and even had an affair with him. I mean, it's not like I've searched, but this is the first time I've heard of her being an stalinist, and this would be quite strange considering how close she was to Trotsky.
There's also this self portrait
1000085.jpg


She disavowed him completely and practically deified Stalin.

But really, Trotskyism and Stalinism are different sides of the same coin.

House you are anarchist?
 

Lime

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Oct 25, 2017
1,266
Mark Graham wrote a nice article on the planetary labor market that's well worth a read: http://tech.newstatesman.com/guest-opinion/planetary-labour-market

But the situation described above is only one example of how capital, labour, computers, and a globe-spanning communication network can be interlinked. Just because a labour market can be everywhere does not mean it is nowhere, and this is why we continue to have institutions to govern and regulate it. It is those institutions – governments, trade unions, civil society, and international organisations – that must rise to the challenge of not just thinking globally, but also acting globally if we want a planetary labour market that is anything but a race to the bottom.
 

House_Of_Lightning

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http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/167878


Among the Maoist organizations to arise out of the political tumult of the 1960s was a group known as the Ad Hoc Committee for a Marxist-Leninist Party (initially called the Ad Hoc Committee for a Scientific Socialist Line). The entity, begun in 1962, was said to be a secret faction within the US Communist Party working against the "revisionism" of Nikita Khrushchev and US party leader Gus Hall. That the entire operation was an FBI construct
 

Mr.Mike

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,677
It occurs to me that I've been part of a union for a while as a teaching assistant without really being terribly aware of it.

Congrats!
 

PlayDat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
193
Would it be bad praxis to invest in the stock market? I've never done it, but it'd be nice to have a source of income that wasn't my job. Are there ways to become financially independent without doing so?
 

Mr.Mike

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,677
Would it be bad praxis to invest in the stock market? I've never done it, but it'd be nice to have a source of income that wasn't my job. Are there ways to become financially independent without doing so?

In any case I'd recommend checking out the Retirment-Era OP as a really good source of knowledge on this (the how to invest part at least).

The other route to go with financial investments is bonds, and maybe specifically government bonds if you don't want to profit from corporations. This would involve much less risk as well, but also lower returns than investing in stocks.

Not that it's a binary choice between the two. If you just followed the standard advice without other moral considerations you'd be buying both stocks and bonds with the proportion of each depending on a bunch of stuff more appropriately discussed in Retirment-Era.
 
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OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
We all need money for retirement and pensions aren't really a thing anymore. Just try to avoid putting your money into any company that you think is really particularly, egregiously bad.

It's really no different than buying stuff from a store. You're keeping capitalism afloat but realistically you have to.
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,978
Honestly I chucked a couple hundred bucks in Bitcoin a few months back just in case. If I can suddenly pay off my sister's college tuition with a windfall, I'm going to take it

We should all strive to minimize harm, and I turn out my lights when I leave a room, but individual actions also have very little effect on systemic problems. On the scale of the stock market even organizing a thousand people to "boycott" it would do basically nothing. Focus your energy where it does the most work, whether that's organizing to leverage the power of existing political institutions or organizing to tear them down.

A reminder: https://www.theguardian.com/environ...-made-global-warming-emissions-climate-change
 

Mr.Mike

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,677
The way you should probably invest in the stock market if you do is through a fund that holds a large number of different stocks. There are a lot of good reasons for this from a financial point of view but it does mean that there will be bad companies in there. But also each company would make up a very small part of your overall investment.
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,978
The way you should probably invest in the stock market if you do is through a fund that holds a large number of different stocks. There are a lot of good reasons for this from a financial point of view but it does mean that there will be bad companies in there. But also each company would make up a very small part of your overall investment.
I will say that I'm currently keeping my money even out of mutual funds just because I honestly don't trust the entire stock market not to tank in the next 2-6 years to a degree that would harm even mutual funds. I just feel like something bad is brewing
 

Mr.Mike

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,677
I might also make the point that even if you do have a pension it's probably investing in stocks and such. The Canada Pension Plan is basically one of the largest investment funds in the world.

I will say that I'm currently keeping my money even out of mutual funds just because I honestly don't trust the entire stock market not to tank in the next 2-6 years to a degree that would harm even mutual funds. I just feel like something bad is brewing


I'd advise against this sort of market timing. Ultimately what matters is consistent saving and time in the market to get that sweet compound interest.

At the very least consider a good bond fund.