this in my opinion better describes what Bluepoint is trying to do
Something is wrong with Wander's face in the SotC remake for PS4
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The thing is, it's pretty well known those Mona Lisa spinoffs are being shipped as parodies.
Nowhere in the marketing has this remaster made the claim it was a parody. It's trying to bill itself as the genuine thing. That's deceitful and attempts to betray the hearts the original game won over.
I disagree. It's a pretty valid comparison. In the original scene, you couldn't tell what Darth Vader was thinking but you could analyze the context and think about what was said 5 minutes prior, and pretty much get a very good guess at what was going on in Vader's mind. The new version throws that away and makes it clear "this is what vader is thinking about".
In SotC, Wander's expression on the left is pretty devoid of emotion. He's thinking something, but you're not sure what. You might guess. The remake turns him into a borderline wuss that makes it clear "J-just look at me! You know what im thinking!".
I agree with an above poster that attaching an actual remaster of SOTC to this game would have been the ideal course of action to address these complaints, instead of just asking those people to shut up and go away
Nowhere in the marketing has this remaster made the claim it was a parody. It's trying to bill itself as the genuine thing. That's deceitful and attempts to betray the hearts the original game won over.
I disagree. It's a pretty valid comparison. In the original scene, you couldn't tell what Darth Vader was thinking but you could analyze the context and think about what was said 5 minutes prior, and pretty much get a very good guess at what was going on in Vader's mind. The new version throws that away and makes it clear "this is what vader is thinking about".
In SotC, Wander's expression on the left is pretty devoid of emotion. He's thinking something, but you're not sure what. You might guess. The remake turns him into a borderline wuss that makes it clear "J-just look at me! You know what im thinking!".
I agree with an above poster that attaching an actual remaster of SOTC to this game would have been the ideal course of action to address these complaints, instead of just asking those people to shut up and go away
This might be one of the most hyperbolic and entitled things I've ever read on era. Jeez.
the altered color scheme is still the critique that puzzle me the most, when you go from a ps2 engine to a modern physically based one, with the entire post process pipeline, gometry, textures etc completely redone from the ground up, matching the exact color scheme in every scene is borderline impossible, even the most praised remake of all time, deemed by most the definitive version of the game, the Resident Evil remake, had pretty drastic color scheme and atmosphere changes(among other things):
Serious. It's as if the game is trash just because of one small thing, that isn't even that bad.
Let's just enjoy the game for what it is: great
Everything about Wander's body language in that scene indicate a somber mood. He moves slowly, he slightly hesistates to remove the cloak, him staring at the body and his face also reflecting his mood makes sense. Like someone else said, the original relied more on textures than animation to convey what he's feeling. This is prevalent is ALL of Ueda's work, his work has always been about characters conveying genuine emotion. That's always been his mo. Wander's animation was never about him being a stoic alpha male badass who displays no emotion.
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Yeah this is pretty silly. All because of Wander's face changes and cutscene animation they've betrayed us all? I'm of the opinion that I'm not crazy about either face, but they both work just fine. Maybe try looking at the game as a complete package than a small series of parts and it'll be easier to swallow the design changes.
You...genuinely think that Bluepoint is trying to be deceitful, in an attempt to betray the hearts of fans?
...really?
Just.....holy shit.
Rose tinted glasses taken to the natural extreme.
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Ok, this thread is starting to 'jump the shark' me thinks.
I didn't say they are trying to. I'm saying they are. Unintentional or not, they changed the context of the original game and deserve whiplash for doing that.
At the moment, people are buying this game right now on their PS4 who genuinely believe its the same game as the original. It's not. It's bluepoint headcanon, and i've argued that from the start.
Fair. It's a good result, this is a pretty good remaster all things considered, but on principle, i'm going to argue against third party companies doing "revisions" of a game like this, and shipping it as the genuine thing. I simply won't accept that. This is fairly uncharted territory in videogames, but it happens all the time in movies.
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Hahahahahahahahahaha, okay. To each their own.
I think they just remade a game they loved, and did their best, but whatever conspiracy you want to cook up is fine, too.
How am I wrong? Saying im shitposting. Try actually responding. You even clearly ignore the rest of my post where I say it's definitely not a deal breaker but there's nothing wrong with pointing out flaws.
Haha made me laugh out loud. Yeah, it's jumped the shark for sure.
The thing is, it's pretty well known those Mona Lisa spinoffs are being shipped as parodies.
Nowhere in the marketing has this remaster made the claim it was a parody. It's trying to bill itself as the genuine thing. That's deceitful and attempts to betray the hearts the original game won over.
I disagree. It's a pretty valid comparison. In the original scene, you couldn't tell what Darth Vader was thinking but you could analyze the context and think about what was said 5 minutes prior, and pretty much get a very good guess at what was going on in Vader's mind. The new version throws that away and makes it clear "this is what vader is thinking about".
In SotC, Wander's expression on the left is pretty devoid of emotion. He's thinking something, but you're not sure what. You might guess. The remake turns him into a borderline wuss that makes it clear "J-just look at me! You know what im thinking!".
I agree with an above poster that attaching an actual remaster of SOTC to this game would have been the ideal course of action to address these complaints, instead of just asking those people to shut up and go away
Good lord this post has to be a joke because it's way too dumb to take seriously.
Itt: People generally having a hard time coming to grips with the fact that people have different opinions. Personally, I think the remake looks fantastic, but it doesn't quite strike the same feelings, the atmosphere isn't exactly ruined, but it's *different*.
And Wander's face is terrible lol, it's so weird and round, it reminds me of those old ATI TruForm demos where they'd just add more polys just to smoothen out edges without any regard for shape or form. But if you don't have an issue with it, that's fine too.
And Wander's face is terrible lol, it's so weird and round, it reminds me of those old ATI TruForm demos where they'd just add more polys just to smoothen out edges without any regard for shape or form. But if you don't have an issue with it, that's fine too.
Yeah, if Cole McGrath's voice and face in inFamous 2 warmed up to me, this face ain't gonna stop me.
I have no idea how you came to that conclusion, Playstation and bluepoint have been absolutely clear from the very start that this is a remake from a different developer, going as far as to publish multiple behind the scenes videos talking about how they approached the project and how it differs from the original, nobody is trying to hide anything.
Remakes by the very definition of the word are different from the originals, that just how this shit works and people should know that, if someone thinks that a remake of any sort can be the same thing as the original then they are already wrong from the beginning, there are going to be differences no matter how good the effort of the people behind the project, art is made of unique, singular, immutable entities and cannot be replicated or improved in an exact way, you always end up with a different result no matter what you do, that doesn't mean that the effort of those who try should be discouraged, because what they produce still has a value on its own.
the improved framerate ironically created issues with the gripping mechanic that caused some colossi to be more difficult than before
Ah thanks.
It was always one of those games that was much more impressive on the original hardware anyway, given how it squeezed so much out of the relatively weak PS2. No way things of such scale should have been possible on that box.
well I would argue that such things weren't in fact possible on that hardware, the game run at single digit fps sometimes lol.
Thread whining is still thread whining even if you're trying to hide behind the blood & sweat of developers.
Let's have some respect for them and stop using them as a shield against criticism, shall we ? They're real people, not your tools to display whenever you see fit.
My goodness, whilst I agree the face looks off in a few of the examples posted and I'd prefer it to be fixed, there's been a steady increase in the lunacy of some people as this thread has progressed.
fucking god, why are people complaining about those who have a problem with the remake? this is a thread about a criticism of the game, coming here and complaining about those who find something wrong with the game, calling them entitled or whatever is so fucking weird. if you think the remake is perfect and god's gift to humanity good for you but why not go to the OT and celebrate the dev's achievements instead of coming here and belittling people who find something wrong with it? honestly it makes zero sense
I think there is a very distinct difference between having an issue with something in the game and claiming the devs behind it are being deceitful. There is a way to speak on complaints without being absurd about it.
that's completely your opinion and i respect it, but what if people are being absurd about it? they're just voicing their opinion too. to me it seems like the dramatic side of the argument is the one who's constantly trying to shut down a (in my opinion, valid) criticism of a remake, that most of you guys haven't played yet by the way, but have just decided that it's a masterpiece above criticism, as if you're losing sleep if someone is finding a flaw with it. it's all contained in this thread any way. again, it's SUPER BIZZARE what some of you guys are doing, specially those who call people names simply because they find something wrong with the game.
i myself am a huge fan of team ico, think sotc is one of the best games ever, but i find a lot of things about this remake that annoy me which means i won't get it, maybe in a few years when i can find it cheap used but for now i'm skipping it. it's an opinion that i have about the remake, just like you have yours. i'm not saying yours is invalid, but people here just won't let it go that someone may have the same opinion as me, or even if someone is going to buy the game but doesn't think it's 100% perfect.
I would appreciate if you didn't lump me into this with "you guys". I don't think portraying it as a one-sided thing (which is what you're doing) is any better.
I'll let this be my last response on the matter.
i'm sorry, my reply wasn't specifically towards you, but more towards those who are making it seem like people who don't like an aspect of this remake are crazy or something.
Why is the post warned when there was an infinitely worse shit post above him about the Mona Lisa.
People are thrusting their own preconceived notions and "headcanon" at the original, claiming Wander clearly feels this way, or that way, etc.
He's an inexperienced guy who stole a sword and harbors a deep sorrow for the fact that Mono is dead. That's most all we know. Wander looks strange in this new iteration only because of things like facial structure, skin tone, features, etc. The emotion he's conveying in his face seems fairly accurate to me, and those claiming otherwise are probably projecting their own stuff onto what was largely a blank slate due to hardware limitations.
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Agreed. I made this thread because I felt that Wander's actual facial model and facial animation were distractingly bad in the remake. This tangent about his emotional state in one three-second cutscene has taken the thread in a weird direction, and I say that as someone who has poured over every minute detail in the original game.
Wander's face is busted from a technical and artistic standpoint. Can't most of us at least agree on that?
Imo it's only busted during running animations, I have no problem with its new artistic depiction especially during cutscenes, it's a different face and different body proportions but it's not objectively worse in my opinion, after looking at it for quite a while the new design grew on me, kinda of like Sully's new design from uncharted 1/2/3 to uncharted 4.
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It's funny you say that, the version of the Mona Lisa on the right is actually a copy of the original, and is said to better reflect what the original had looked like in its early days color wise. Aside from a very slight difference in perspective, it's definitely not a parody (it's just been preserved better) and is actually what the original was intended to look like.
Nonetheless, I'm on the side who agrees that the remake doesn't exactly carry the same feeling that the original game did. Call it limitations or whatever you want, but Wander's expression in the original looks a lot more grim, and the excessive bloom and low draw distance gave the game a very majestic, celestial look. Bluepoint did very fine work, but I would definitely agree that some things were lost in the translation. I say this as someone who thought the Zelda 3DS remakes lost a lot of their atmosphere in the more shadowy dungeons though, so take that as you will.
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some people would even argue that the ps3 version looks worse than the ps2 version because the ps2 assets weren't designed for hd resolutions, there is simply no perfect way to capture 100% of the feel of any original piece of art, the best you can do is do something similar that has its own strengths and that is able to evoke strong, slightly different yes, but still appropriate emotions.
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Who in the world would say that the PS3 remaster looks worse than the PS2 original? That's lunacy. It's exactly the same but with way better image quality and performance.
I've seen people argue that the added visual clarity made flaws in things like textures and geometry look too apparent and distracting, things like the very angular nature of the low poly models for example, and to a degree they're not wrong, assets build for low resolutions can look rather rough and fake at higher resolutions.
How about we stop claiming that people who see authorial intent in the original cutscene are "projecting?"
Hardware limitations didn't prevent the original creators from making Wander's face express pain, fear, exhaustion or anger.
Team Ico portrayed Wander as gentle and caring when they felt it was appropriate for the character. His introduction and most notable close-up didn't animate itself by accident.
SOTC is a powerful game, the game left a mark on some people for very good reasons. I believe the one who think the OG PS2 version is the best for them and yes I also agree the bluriness of the OG version helped a lot the game to look more... dreamy ? I don't know the exact word in english, it made the game look like a vague dream you can barely remember but left a vivid mark in your mind.
The framerate of the OG game was more like a bad hangover though.
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eh, I would say it's debatable, what team Ico animators were really good at was expressing emotion through body language, if you watch carefully every cutscene and ingame facial animation of wander you will notice that his face doesn't really change all that much at all, those running animation for example so obviously express exhaustion not because he has his mouth slightly open or because of complex facial animations but because his body is bouncing around, his arm are flailing all over the place etc, one important part of this whole equation is also wander's resting face:How about we stop claiming that people who see authorial intent in the original cutscene are "projecting?"
Hardware limitations didn't prevent the original creators from making Wander's face express pain, fear, exhaustion or anger.
Team Ico portrayed Wander as gentle and caring when they felt it was appropriate for the character. His introduction and most notable close-up didn't animate itself by accident.
this is the expression that wander makes 99% of the time, both in gameplay and cutscenes:
it's so simple but it turns out it's also extremely versatile, it works in cutscene for displaying emotions appropriate for the context of the game, it works when wander is doing nothing and it works when wander is running and fighting(with a little help from a slightly open mouth), it's that singular facial expression coupled with the expressiveness of the body animation that made a one trick pony such a memorable looking character.
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