Is it okay to support developers with ideologies you don’t support?
- Thread starter Fart Master
- Start date
- Status
User has been warned: inflammatory comment.
congrats, you're both supporting an open nazi
feel free to not give me the benefit of the doubt in any matter supporting nazis going forward, and that's with the warning i was given here - none of that changes anything.
respect to the community & attempts at civility, but if you can't draw the line at nazis, you don't stand for anything. i said what i said.
Last edited:
Yeah but if you became aware that the product you are supporting will use funds to proliferate right wing ideologies, would that not make you think twice? Say the tastiest beer in the supermarket brazenly had a Nazi flag on it, you would stay clear right. Kingdom come deliverance is the same for me.
exactly this - the "if you can't boycott everything, you shouldn't boycott anything" bit is the laziest fallacy out there, but it still crops up. coupling that with the "i've better things to worry about" is top tier privilege right there
Correct, I would not buy that beer. I do understand your point.
every market on earth, especially if you live in a first world country, aims to exploit and continually ensure that a certain number of the populace continues to be entrenched in deep poverty
its a pretty difficult answer to come up with and the more knowledge you have on something the more reason it gives you pause
but operating on some logic you can probably offset the funds you used to indirectly fund some bad behavior through your own personal activism and donations to good causes
i understand that MOST of my goods are made in sweatshops but i also understand that i can do more to ensure or better the lives of those that work in those conditions
unless you're directly funding something the answer gets increasingly complex and varies from person to person
That's a strech.
Unless the whole Warhorse is full of alt-right people.
I will never boycott a product if it's made by many developers only because one of them has shitty worldview.
My friends, if I would stop supporting devs, let's go even further, companies that have ideologies I don't support...I wouldn't be buying much anymore.
Also, understand, in this case, a lot of devs from kingdom come do NOT support his views, they get punished too when you're not buying the game out of ideological reasons.
Also, understand, in this case, a lot of devs from kingdom come do NOT support his views, they get punished too when you're not buying the game out of ideological reasons.
Let me get this straight, just to make it obvious to anyone else that might read this.
By purchasing Kingdom Come: Deliverance, I am supporting nazis?
I don't understand folks saying that the argument of "well, you have a phone too, and that phone is made through sweatshops, so why are you still buying it?" has no merit if it's used as a response in discussions such as these. Of course it has merit, because that means you are only willing to stand on your principle if it's something that's not inconveniencing you in any way; when that principle is measured against your convenience, then lo and behold, convenience always wins. And yes, that does make you a hypocrite, as far as I am concerned, especially if you are shouting your stance over a bullhorn to others.
I don't really care if you refuse to buy certain things out of principles, more power to you!, that means you have noble intentions and are striving to become a better individual, and that is certainly commendable. But just stop pointing your fingers at other people buying stuff saying that they're corrupt or irredeemable or anything like that, because like it or not you also participated in the same practice in different ways although perhaps you just don't want to admit it. We're all hypocrites in here, although some of us are much more ashamed to admitting it than others.
Last edited:
...yes? SilentRob's receipts are right there in the OP.
no, i don't know everyone on the staff or their views - but this dude's the one on the tin, and he is unequivocally clear about his deep white supremacist views.
you, of course, are free to say your desire to play this (my opinion, mediocre looking) game is more important than any latent desire to not support a nazi & thereby continue giving him a platform/normalizing dude's views, but that's still what you'd be doing here, yes
tons of sites gave gg's a pass because of similarly faulty logic, or the simple desire to not make waves & miss clicks. we saw them all but normalizes & transition to alt-right, and some of y'all still wanna ask what's the harm
Sometimes I can separate the artist from the art. Other times, as in this particular case with a scumbag like Vavra, I can't.
Not a chance that I'm going anywhere near Kingdom Come. Fuck Vavra, and fuck all of you spineless people who know exactly what he is and still support his work.
I'll happily take a ban for this stance.
Not a chance that I'm going anywhere near Kingdom Come. Fuck Vavra, and fuck all of you spineless people who know exactly what he is and still support his work.
I'll happily take a ban for this stance.
Cognitive dissonance: The Thread.
To me:
It depends on the severity of the ideology and whether or not the product conveys a disagreeable message.
Ultimately, the product is more important than the creator. You may be lining his/her pockets, but they're still the ones producing -- perhaps cynically -- a palatable enough message via a team effort to market on a large scale. The message is what carries on -- not the personal views of one member of authorship.
But, this is just a hard and fast rule. It has exceptions. Like, I can't watch the Cosby Show anymore. I loved that shit.
I'll probably pick up Kingdom Come if it gets good reviews. Vavra strikes me a nerdy white man from a country without diversity who may or may not be a different person having grown up in the United States. I think his views are benign to the United States, and to a larger degree, the game will be as well. I don't condone his attitude or hostility, but in technical terms, I don't see what's truly wrong with his stance on the game itself. It seems like people halfway around the world are bullying him to conform to an American perspective of diversity and he smugly believes himself to be in the right, backed up by a local historian, although it's more likely that the thought never occurred to him to include black people at all. Gamergators would rather double down with sarcasm and chaos than admit they were wrong, which is churlish and stupid, but not damningly indicative of what message the game will send.
It depends on the severity of the ideology and whether or not the product conveys a disagreeable message.
Ultimately, the product is more important than the creator. You may be lining his/her pockets, but they're still the ones producing -- perhaps cynically -- a palatable enough message via a team effort to market on a large scale. The message is what carries on -- not the personal views of one member of authorship.
But, this is just a hard and fast rule. It has exceptions. Like, I can't watch the Cosby Show anymore. I loved that shit.
I'll probably pick up Kingdom Come if it gets good reviews. Vavra strikes me a nerdy white man from a country without diversity who may or may not be a different person having grown up in the United States. I think his views are benign to the United States, and to a larger degree, the game will be as well. I don't condone his attitude or hostility, but in technical terms, I don't see what's truly wrong with his stance on the game itself. It seems like people halfway around the world are bullying him to conform to an American perspective of diversity and he smugly believes himself to be in the right, backed up by a local historian, although it's more likely that the thought never occurred to him to include black people at all. Gamergators would rather double down with sarcasm and chaos than admit they were wrong, which is churlish and stupid, but not damningly indicative of what message the game will send.
Last edited:
yes, standards so low that simply denying such blatant bigotry my dollar in a competitive market must truly be something to see, hopefully all that pearl clutching doesn't hurt your hands
i don't think you're alone there m'man
if this post was any less vapid it would've come from a Kingdom Come NPC
Last edited:
Well, we can establish two things, first, Daniel Vavra is not the world's greatest human being, second, a lot of people around here have no fucking clue about Central/Eastern European history and/or values. Vavra's fixation on black people is astonishing and dumb, yes there weren't many african slaves in Eastern Europe and Russia because there were plenty of local peasants who were treated not much better than black slaves in America but you don't have to be an ass to point it out. I'm also not surprised by his views, for some reason right-wing views are really popular among folks who were part of the Eastern Bloc, despite official communist ideology that always promoted internationalism.
As for the question, I'll buy the game, as others have pointed out it's important to distinguish between creator and the product. I'll show my support not to Vavra, but to other devs who might wanna try their hand in creating an RPG in a realistic historical setting without fantasy elements. It's a shame that the game will be more remembered for Vavra's alt-right stance rather than bringing something new to the table.
As for the question, I'll buy the game, as others have pointed out it's important to distinguish between creator and the product. I'll show my support not to Vavra, but to other devs who might wanna try their hand in creating an RPG in a realistic historical setting without fantasy elements. It's a shame that the game will be more remembered for Vavra's alt-right stance rather than bringing something new to the table.
Yep thanks for that, i hope the game will have a huge success, because yes, i don't care about politics, i don't care about other people opinions and i just play videogames without pushing some agendas or side by one party or another. The funny this is: We all bought things made by Nazi people, but that's fine and we are ok as long as we don't know, but this attitude is bullshit, Disney was founded by and antisemite but a lot of people won't care and they keep watching movies and buying Disney's merchandise, it's the exact same thing with KCD. We are all guilty on supporting those people.
User warned: Personal attacks
At least you're willing to admit it.
Some of these posts in this thread.
Yikes. Didn't know stuff like this was allowed on this site.
and exactly how much of dude's alt-right stance fits that bill here?
this is straight gamergate 101 points here - "i don't care about politics but i hope this nazi-made game does great!", prattle on about how nice your life is not be affected by injustice, and sign it with "evil people made other things!"
as if a dude proudly thumping his chest about his abhorrent views shouldn't be treated differently than the possibility of such
*chef's kiss* this post had it all
yeah, some of us didn't think white supremacist defense force was cool either - you live and learn
User was warned: Hostility towards other members.
Grow a fucking backbone, or continue wallowing in the shit. Your choice.
That was more about people who keep talking about PoC in the game (and we all know that by the PoC they don't mean ottomans and tatars). But as I said earlier, Eastern Europe at large is full of people who, for some reason, sympathize with the alt-right ideology. My guess it has something to do with the growth of ethnic identity after the fall of communist regimes.
I see it like this.
I don't react to these people, they are totally indifferent to me. I don't shout and scream on the internet, because it really doesn't help, a good discussion is always good.
But barking at every tree leads no where, well because there's a fucking shitload of trees, so I bark where It matters, The voting booth and by voting on citizen initiatives.
I am a generally politically active person, and in this day and age it's hard to avoid politics even if you want to. But video games are my hobby, and I try not to politize them, unless the developer or publisher themselves start doing it. But in the end rooting people out of society isn't the answer, because the problem is more deeply rooted in the attitudes. You need to start changing people's attitudes from a child, shouting at a grown man solves nothing. These people will eventually fade out, It's just taking a little bit longer than anyone would like.
I don't react to these people, they are totally indifferent to me. I don't shout and scream on the internet, because it really doesn't help, a good discussion is always good.
But barking at every tree leads no where, well because there's a fucking shitload of trees, so I bark where It matters, The voting booth and by voting on citizen initiatives.
I am a generally politically active person, and in this day and age it's hard to avoid politics even if you want to. But video games are my hobby, and I try not to politize them, unless the developer or publisher themselves start doing it. But in the end rooting people out of society isn't the answer, because the problem is more deeply rooted in the attitudes. You need to start changing people's attitudes from a child, shouting at a grown man solves nothing. These people will eventually fade out, It's just taking a little bit longer than anyone would like.
Nearly all art produced before early modernism is considered right-wing as it was all paid for by patrons, either of the church or monarchy/aristocracy, and it all presented right-wing religious and political beliefs. Even Neo-classical was painted under strict instruction in academies and presented imperial ideologies of the time. Honestly only 20th century art, and a minority of 19th century, is a free expression of the artist and not a representation of ideological beliefs of the person who paid the artist.
That's why the "Hitler was a good artist" is so stupid, art was nearly all propaganda during his lifetime, and the artists that weren't were hated by Hitler and banned during his reign.
As for the OP, judge the work not the individual.
- Status