I remember going off on a massive rant when that image first did the rounds. I don't think it did my social standing any favours, lols.
It was a massive improvement, I'm kind of nervous they might regress in MK11, lol.To be fair MK9 was absolutely disastrous in terms of female sexualization. I never played MX10 so I don't know if it got better.
Kinda sad to see how SNK is treating this game considering how they had some of the most elegant and respectful designs for women characters in the 90s:
Kinda sad to see how SNK is treating this game considering how they had some of the most elegant and respectful designs for women characters in the 90s:
Of course, there were things like their clothes being ripped off when they lost in the early KOF games but let's focus on the fact that they are not wearing bikinis and have bodies with normal proportions.
The cultural dissonance on display is pretty amazing.we want to push the cute aspect of things, the elegant-ness of the women
To be fair MK9 was absolutely disastrous in terms of female sexualization. I never played MX10 so I don't know if it got better.
What's worse about it is that most do not even consider it an issue. Women being treated like sex dolls in media is just the "natural state" of things. (The argument of, "that's just how it is" comes up with disturbing frequency.)1) It is kinda scary how they don't think those costumes are objectifying
2) It is SO EASY for the CREATORS excuse to be "because I wrote that way"
He doesn't understand the damn problem is that they're in these costumes against their will. That's the crux of the issue, for me. MAI fucking SHIRANUI should not be blushing like a schoolgirl in a BIKINI.
Japanese devs who want their pure waifus but also want to sexualize them are, pardon my French, idiots. Like, can't justify Leona choosing to be in an alt costume and NEED a story reason? THEN DON'T GIVE HER THAT ALT COSTUME. It's not rocket science.
And given that this is a sequel to SNK Gals, in which fairy godmother Iori kidnapped the girls to make them fight with thew winner getting a wish.... the "story reason" is probably that Iori forced them into these costumes against their will. So "ruining images of characters"? Well Iori is a sexual harasser now, good job SNK.
There's room in the industry for fanservice games. I have no issue with games like Oneechanbara or protagonists like Bayonetta. There's no room for justifying women feeling uncomfortable with their own bodies and choice of attire for the sexual joy of the audience.
Still not over the spiritual successor for a game aimed at girls turning into this. It's amazing how the initial trailer excited me but everything since has turned me more and more off.
Like it'd just be so easy to not even have the costumes matter from a story perspective but still matter in gameplay, if the latter is what they're going for. But no, let's have Mai hate being in a bikini. Spare me.
That is what really gets me sometimes. Just say you want to see women in bikinis and such. Do not try and hide it with some "Oh there is a good reason blah blah" comment that usually ends of falling flat.It'd be even better if they weren't sexualized, sure, but if they're going to... Own up to it.
I don't think that this is entirely fair. It has gotten better for AAA games, and I'm seeing a lot of indie developers try to do a better job. The issues are being acknowledged now, and even games journalists are starting to cover this kind of thing. The big problem spot is Japan; and there it really has gotten worse.What's worse about it is that most do not even consider it an issue. Women being treated like sex dolls in media is just the "natural state" of things. (The argument of, "that's just how it is" comes up with disturbing frequency.)
Frustrates the hell out of me how much certain aspects of game media have regressed in the past ten or twenty years. And so far it looks like it's getting worse, not better.
My opinion:
There in nothing wrong with sexualisation in media. Lust is created by imagination and for that reason it is the strongest impetus for media in general. To adore the anatomy of the human body is natural an nothing wrong. Some of the greates books and films wouldn't have been made without this impetus. Think of it.
My opinion:
There in nothing wrong with sexualisation in media. Lust is created by imagination and for that reason it is the strongest impetus for media in general. To adore the anatomy of the human body is natural an nothing wrong. Some of the greatest books and films wouldn't have been made without this impetus. Think of it.
Methinks you haven't read the OP. No one in here is saying exploring sexuality or sexualization is inherently bad. It's the objectification and over-rampant representation of women in sexualized designs that's the issue.My opinion:
There in nothing wrong with sexualisation in media. Lust is created by imagination and for that reason it is the strongest impetus for media in general. To adore the anatomy of the human body is natural an nothing wrong. Some of the greatest books and films wouldn't have been made without this impetus. Think of it.
Sexualization =/= Sexualized and Objectification. One can admire the human body without turning it into a pile of meat to masturbate too.
This is pure objectification and there is northing wrong with it.
This is pure objectification and there is northing wrong with it.
Bruh, why are acting so damn aggressive. Chill out, if hes wrong correct him on where he misspoke, but dont act like a prick to people.You have absolutely zero fucking clue what "sexualization" means in this context.
Also lol at condescending comments like "think of it" from someone who's cripplingly unequipped to discuss the topic, let alone look down on people who've doing it for months.
I dunno, this thread has debunked a lot of this shit over and over and over and over and over and over and over and it's even in the OP. At this point the thread is a community of people ready to move on to deeper discussion but there are still these drivebys ignoring the OP and then repeating the same talking points people are flat out exhausted from 'debating'. I think people have a right to get annoyed at this point.Bruh, why are acting so damn aggressive. Chill out, if hes wrong correct him on where he misspoke, but dont act like a prick to people.
I understand that, but that is still no reason to be acting like that. Correct where he is wrong and move on, there's no reason to belittle the person, that's just bad netiquette.I dunno, this thread has debunked a lot of this shit over and over and over and over and over and over and over and it's even in the OP. At this point the thread is a community of people ready to move on to deeper discussion but there are still these drivebys ignoring the OP and then repeating the same talking points people are flat out exhausted from 'debating'. I think people have a right to get annoyed at this point.
Yet notice how his posture is set up. Notice that he isn't thrusting his pelvis in front of the camera. I mean, look at statues of women from that same period now compare that to the cheesecake found in video game women designs. It's all about angles and focus. This objectification is admiring the entire body, not just the penis. Women need to contort their body so their breasts and ass need to be shown in modern games. Like, this is one of the most famous greek statues of women:
Notice how, despite being naked, she isn't as objectified as some more modern forms as female costume design. This is what we are talking about.
My opinion:
There in nothing wrong with sexualisation in media. Lust is created by imagination and for that reason it is the strongest impetus for media in general. To adore the anatomy of the human body is natural an nothing wrong. Some of the greatest books and films wouldn't have been made without this impetus. Think of it.
Not gonna lie, I laughed.This is pure objectification and there is northing wrong with it.
I'm pretty sure many of us have just reached a point where our collective tolerance for stupid has dropped considerably.I understand that, but that is still no reason to be acting like that. Correct where he is wrong and move on, there's no reason to belittle the person, that's just bad netiquette.
If video games could approach these matters with maturity and nuance, that'd be great. Unfortunately, video games are less L'Age d'Or and more Zombie Strippers...
I dosent matter This isnt your day job, take a break if you must, but the way Weltall Zero has been acting in this thread is just unacceptable. Every one of his comments just tends to reek of smugness and condescension . That kind of tone just makes people want to argue and disagree with you because you're being such nause.I'm pretty sure many of us have just reached a point where our collective tolerance for stupid has dropped considerably.
It's not the videogames it's the consumers. The industry is just an assistant to bring imagination to life. Now tell me to give everyone injections to lower their desires like it was done with gay people not too long ago.
Well two things."Bad netiquette" is coming into a thread without reading any of it and acting like you know more than everyone else who's already posting in it.
Vitriol deserved.
I saw you in the earliar thread having ago at another person for being in a thread cus they weren't going to buy the game, and you weren't exactly that nice in doing it. In fact a lot of your comments in that thread could be considered quite hostile in tone. Do you think that harms your position?I dosent matter This isnt your day job, take a break if you must, but the way Weltall Zero has been acting in this thread is just unacceptable. Every one of his comments just tends to reek of smugness and condescension . That kind of tone just makes people want to argue and disagree with you because you're being such nause.
Im definitely guilty of doing that earlier in the thread and I hate that. I dont like how I handled myself a couple of months ago, and I try to not write in a sarcastic or smug tone constantly. But Weltall Zero has consistently done this, and it hurts his position greatly.
And what does rats liking sex have ANYTHING to do with why a lot of people would like to have women characters who don't exist to be sexual objects?esserius
You know there were experiments with rats in the 1950s by James Olds. Even while suffering hunger these rats prefered to have sexual stimulation leading to death. Just accept there is a natural reward system thousand times more powerful than any lootbox system.
Yeah I also felt that was shitty to keep pressing him for not buying the game. Im gonna try to apologize to him for acting rude.I saw you in the earliar thread having ago at another person for being in a thread cus they weren't going to buy the game, and you weren't exactly that nice in doing it. In fact a lot of your comments in that thread could be considered quite hostile in tone. Do you think that harms your position?
In my defense, I made my post before he started going off on some other shit, that was my bad.HypedBeast I want to agree with you but Kriegshand is clearly not arguing in good faith. The man's bringing up ancient studies about rats in talking about fucking representation in video games.
I think it is easy to be a bit harsh, specially in a thread where the same point gets brought up again and again, when it's already been explained before. I think the reason that people have become more snarky in this thread is there have been far too many people coming in to bring these points up disingenuously, it's hard to take them at face value anymore. I know recently in forums (not this forum), I've regretted being polite in explaining an issue cus people they turn around and act very aggressive, and make me seem like I'm the one being crazy and unreasonable. I've started just not saying anything at all, rather than explaining my position cus it's very tiring. It's why I understand the sarcastic tone going on in this thread. Though I do think it's good on you for apologising for being aggressive, most people would not do that.Yeah I also felt that was shitty to keep pressing him for not buying the game. Im gonna try to apologize to him for acting rude.
The thread isn't about sexualisation in media in general and desire for it as part of the human condition. It's about the way that female characters and designs/costumes in particular are sexualised in games in a way that men aren't. The ludicrous anatomy proportions, the infantilisation of women, the way the costumes of adventurers can run closer to lingerie than armour even when a male and female character wear the same item.My opinion:
There in nothing wrong with sexualisation in media. Lust is created by imagination and for that reason it is the strongest impetus for media in general. To adore the anatomy of the human body is natural an nothing wrong. Some of the greatest books and films wouldn't have been made without this impetus. Think of it.
esserius
You know there were experiments with rats in the 1950s by James Olds. Even while suffering hunger these rats prefered to have sexual stimulation leading to death. Just accept there is a natural reward system thousand times more powerful than any lootbox system.
Why does it always come down to "you want better representation for women in video games ergo you're a prude who hates T&A"?
esserius
You know there were experiments with rats in the 1950s by James Olds. Even while suffering hunger these rats prefered to have sexual stimulation leading to death. Just accept there is a natural reward system thousand times more powerful than any lootbox system.
I often don't quote people because it's a button I have to press and I'm too lazy to scroll back up and find it after reaching the bottom of the page.Well two things.
1. Why does no one just quote my post instead of posting in the thread? I wont get your notification if you do that.
2.Yeah, that was dumb. Dont immediately go on the attack like that! I mean the thread dosent really get going till like page 30, so I can understand if someone just skims the OP and makes what they feel will be a strong argument. I you feel they are wrong, correct them on some things and see if you can come to a similar conclusion, but dont respond to people with that kind of shitty, smug tone (not you, Weltall Zero), it does no one any favors.
Ah... Welp.You guys realize HypedBeast is a concern troll whose only contribution to this thread has ever been constant tone policing, right? Just put him on ignore, report him if you want, and move on; stop feeding him.
On a side note, it's never not creepy to click that "show ignored content" button to see what everyone is replying to and realize he's still obsessed with me. :S
esserius
You know there were experiments with rats in the 1950s by James Olds. Even while suffering hunger these rats prefered to have sexual stimulation leading to death. Just accept there is a natural reward system thousand times more powerful than any lootbox system.
Labels are fun.But like I said, your toxic attitude is really damaging. Also this is the only other time Ive mentioned you, I just see you showing your ass so much I thought I would bring it up.You guys realize HypedBeast is a concern troll whose only contribution to this thread has ever been constant tone policing, right? Just put him on ignore, report him if you want, and move on; stop feeding him.
On a side note, it's never not creepy to click that "show ignored content" button to see what everyone is replying to and realize he's still obsessed with me. :S
Let's cool it with the tone policing. If you have a problem with a user, provide an actionable report - but don't keep harping on it in the thread and derailing.I dosent matter This isnt your day job, take a break if you must, but the way Weltall Zero has been acting in this thread is just unacceptable. Every one of his comments just tends to reek of smugness and condescension . That kind of tone just makes people want to argue and disagree with you because you're being such nause.
Im definitely guilty of doing that earlier in the thread and I hate that. I dont like how I handled myself a couple of months ago, and I try to not write in a sarcastic or smug tone constantly. But Weltall Zero has consistently done this, and it hurts his position greatly.