Of course it was
The patches went a long way and I think the weird dead eyes and funky facial animations ruined a lot of the appeal
In the end, my Sarah Ryder looked fine
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Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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Of course it was
The patches went a long way and I think the weird dead eyes and funky facial animations ruined a lot of the appeal
In the end, my Sarah Ryder looked fine
Yeah - it got me thinking. We've talked about it more here with regards to comics though, as there's more history there.
Still - hard to say if it was worse there, since there were simply fewer females overall (which is its own problem), and while females have become more prominent in video games, they are still typically there to be objectified.
That said, I'm not actually sure video games have a non-objectified female that people would consider iconic? I want to say Princess Peach, but that shit is still bad (and while outside her story her design isn't objectified, in story she is exclusively an object to be rescued).
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Samus if you only count metroid (and not the bikini scene) otherwise nope, i got nothing that would be Iconic.
Hmm, Aya from Parasite Eve 1? Aya is probably among Square's best female characters. Well, until they ruined her in the next couple games ;_;
Plus she has one of the best partners to grace gaming.
Yeah, I mean in Parasite Eve 1 I guess she wasn't too bad... but that game still had a lot of pandering and boy did it get worse in sequels.
Kinda? I feel like that's a stretch since she isn't even the protagonist though.
Like... jeez it's weird discussing this. Like every single one has some caveat attached to it.
I mean that depends on how we are defining iconic
gorden freeman is considered pretty iconic and he doesnt have a word of dialogue and only box art
like to be honest i cant think of any without a "Well shit happens later that makes said character objectified"... hell i was thinking the main girl from Sakura wars/Taisen but that game is sorta a dating sim so thats and SEGA went full ham on merchandise because of how fucking huge it was in Japan.
design for example.
I mean I think it's more how we are defining objectified. Because even most slightly popular female characters seem to be objectified at some point or another.
I consider Samus to be iconic but she's also objectified quite a bit in her own franchise (the spandex space suit was not a step in the right direction either).
Sailor Moon had some video games - I'm not sure if that counts since she isn't really originally a character from video games.
I'd say this is definitely iconic in Japan, but not worldwide.like to be honest i cant think of any without a "Well shit happens later that makes said character objectified"... hell i was thinking the main girl from Sakura wars/Taisen but that game is sorta a dating sim so thats and SEGA went full ham on merchandise because of how fucking huge it was in Japan.
design for example.
lol - I feel like I want to take it.
is this cheating?
Okami is awesome.
Gonna need to stretch the 'iconic' label a bit to include a couple characters, like Heather from SH3, Clem from the Walking Dead, and Chell from Portal, even if they did pretty her up for the sequel.
I dunno, im iffy on the rules here. Does it have to be across all games with zero objectification? Do they have to be human? Does it have to be from older games?
The only one I can think of and is probably going to get more attention and be on par with male iconic characters is Ellie from TLoU.
Clem's cool - even badass in the sequels.
But yeah... not sure I'd call them iconic.
I guess if we're going for iconic - can anyone think of a character on the scale of Mario or Sonic?
There is only one female that is that iconic... and she is objectified all right. Lara Croft.
Fio and eri from metal slug maybe? I mean metal slug 3 and the ps2 collection were top sellers on ps4 and switch buuuut...yeah i guess they arent really 'iconic' outside of the snk fanbase :x
FFVI's Terra? Other than that, yeah, can't think of anyone.
The rules for iconic are never terribly clear.
That said, I'd like them to be human, yeah. And I'd prefer they're not objectified by their creators - i.e. they at least respect their characters and consistently treat them as such in their designs. It doesn't need to be from older games if you feel the character's made a lot of waves and has staying power.
Yeah, this is the only one I can think of too. I mean, they've tried with some of the newer games, but there's a lot of downright creepy stuff in them too, particularly the torture porn stuff.
Definitely iconic among jRPGs and generally respected as a character.
I'd like to see her character grow a bit more but I think there's definitely some potential there.
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I would like to say Commander Shepard from Mass Effect, but sadly not many people played femshep and maleshep is the recognizable one.
Sure, at least in her design, but she's also damseled in pretty much every game (also not really prominent in most of the games - always a supporting role).
Yeah, but it's nowhere near as bad as... well, a lot of characters in Square's repertoire (always a caveat -_-).Terra is iconic to me, though maybe still a bit sexualized especially in newer designs.
she was sexualized/objectified later, heck there is a kinda infamous scene in the newest game.
Im just going to spitball here.
Ellie in TLoU? Sheik in OoT (I think that might be cheating)? The Boss in MGS3? Lightning in FFXIII? Aerith in FFVII?
Ellie I already discussed. Sheik's not really prominent and I wouldn't say iconic - certainly not a franchise character at least. The Boss is overtly sexualized (and Kojima also wanted her to originally have an exposed breast, and wanted her breasts to jiggle, among other things). Lightning is borderline in the original game and straight up sexualized in her costumes in Lightning Returns. Aerith is both damseled and sacrificed for Cloud.
I like Femshep too. :) But again, mostly iconic to fans of Mass Effect.
I actually like the protag in DA:I but again, I don't really think of her as iconic.
See, the problem there is that iconic, by definition is objectification. You are literally removing their personhood to reduce them to an icon.
You are also confusing sexy for objectification. In feminist theory, objectification is the reduction of a woman to a non-person. There are seven attributes to this: instrumentality, denial of autonomy, inertness, fungibility, violibility, ownership, and denial of subjectivity. Long story short, it means that their experiences, personality, intelligence, uniqueness, etc is ignored, downplayed, or outright suppressed to reduce them to an object. You'll notice that none of those things specifically target sexuality. It is just that sexuality is where women are more often objectified (but not exclusively).
Basically, if there is an actual character there, they are not being objectified. Take Lara Croft. As a character, she has autonomy, agency, uniqueness, and makes her own decision. She's also sexy. However, being sexy doesn't, alone, remove any of these things. The same could be said for the cast of Senran Kagura. They are all fully realized characters (honestly, more realized than most video game characters). They are also sexy, but being sexy doesn't downplay or remove their hopes, dreams, goals. or gifts. The same is true of Pyra, and honestly, the majority of characters complained about in this thread. If they have a realized character, they are not being objectified.
The one thing you have to be careful of is that they are, by nature of being the creations of artists and writers, already objects. They are not real people and thus can not have hopes and dreams that their creators do not imbue them with. We engage in an act of personification - we give personas to objects in order to make them appear to be human or human-like... but they aren't real. As such, EVERY discussion of objectification, with regard to creative works, will ultimately lead back to the idea that the creators are responsible for treating these characters as objects. But tha'ts backwards. Objectification is removal. Personification is addition. It is the giving of personhood, not the taking of it. Creators give the. illusion of life to objects. They can not take away what was never there to begin with.
Now, if you want to argue that the creators need to be more respectful or considerate - sure, that's fine. Probably true too. But youcan't claim it is objectification because that is a fundamental misreading of the feminist literature. So, to answer your question, there are lots of iconic non-objectified female characters in gaming because by nature of giving them character, we are de-objectifying them. If you want to ask about non-sexy characters, that's fine too, but please don't confuse sexy for objectification. There is some overlap, but they are still separate things. And, of course, discussion of objectification with regards to creative works is absurd, because creative works can not have autonomy (so how can objectification remove it?)
The whole Sheik reveal is pretty iconic in gaming in itself so I dunno, the boss really isnt sexualized in the game unless you are counting the ending where she shows her scar (I really wouldnt count it just cause its not meant to oogle as it is actual character and story development). I dont know if kojima wanted more (wouldnt surprise me), but you might be thinking about eva.
By your reading of the definitions, all characters at all times are being objectified, which renders any argument or discussion pointless.
Additionally, Lara Croft cannot have agency or autonomy because the player controls them and the creator presents their uniqueness, by your reading.
I mean, it's great that you're trying to distract from actual discussion by arguing that all discourse about objectification in video games is pointless though. Additionally, your understanding of the terminology and their use is reductive, as well as misapplied. It's unclear to me personally if you even understand the terms being used by feminist theory, given the first thing you do is attempt to change their meaning.
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Alis Landale maybe? The lead character/heroine in the original Phantasy Star (1987).
(...She's iconic to me, dammit)
Miranda character design was a little over the top for sure but Jack's was quite in line with her juvenile "I don't give a fuck" in-your-face attitude IMO and it led well to her ME3 looks/persona.
Samara was, yeah, a little stupid given her profile and experience.
The worst offenders were Ashley in ME3 (her breast size doubled from ME1, WTF?) and Edi (even though she got first "stuck" into this body, she would definitely want to change/alter it because, OMG).
Your post immediately led me to remember Alena from Dragon Quest(warrior) 4Alis Landale maybe? The lead character/heroine in the original Phantasy Star (1987).
(...She's iconic to me, dammit)
is this cheating?
Too bad bad her sidekick is ridiculously misogynistic...
Issun is like the first video game I truly, fully despised, and he NEVER... SHUTS... UP
God I played this so long ago... I should give it another go.Alis Landale maybe? The lead character/heroine in the original Phantasy Star (1987).
(...She's iconic to me, dammit)
Not that she is completely free of objectification (her tights are, well, tight) but tracer is pretty well received and popular within the LGBT community and she's pretty much the face of of Overwatch. She's literally the icon of the Overwatch league.
Yeah - not sure she's been around long enough but Blizzard in general is pretty good at creating iconic characters. I'd say she resonates pretty strongly. Will be interesting to see what happens if they create a sequel or expand the franchise.
The question of iconography with newer characters always relates to staying power. Like, Pikachu is iconic pretty much everywhere and it's because of how strongly it resonated with audiences, young and old.
Nintendo probably has the most characters of any company that actually retain that iconic status. Strong silhouettes, unique imagery, symmetry, and a continual push for Disney-like status.
Who cares about a she-wolf when you have this beauty
like to be honest i cant think of any without a "Well shit happens later that makes said character objectified"... hell i was thinking the main girl from Sakura wars/Taisen but that game is sorta a dating sim so thats and SEGA went full ham on merchandise because of how fucking huge it was in Japan.
design for example.
Even in the first game you could gaze at the ladie's boobs and they'd get angry. Except Iris who was underage but you could form a relationship with her too
Lucina, from FE Awakening? Her fandom is absolute trash and they only care about fucking her, but she isn't sexualized in-game. Though maybe she's too recent/niche to really be considered iconic.
EDIT: unrelated, but something I've been thinking about for a long time and need to get off my chest: can I just say that it's really fucking funny that people complain about feminists taking things away from people who want titty games, when I can't even find a single JRPG to play nowadays that hasn't been overrun by otaku filth. Who's taking what away from who now?
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Fingers crossed for Dragon Quest? At least the next time someone says 'it hasn't changed since the 80s!' we can say 'looking at the current state of character design, I'm ok with that!' :D
Honestly I'm kinda thinking of looking into DQ even though I heavily dislike the art style and I've never been into the series, that's how desperate I am :(
I also have my fingers crossed for Octopath Traveller. The demo was super promising, and I really enjoyed Primrose's story despite initially being suspicious of how they'd deal with her character. I don't really trust Square Enix ever since Bravely Default, but I'm optimistic for this one.
Yeah, I liked the demo enough to play through both parts. Primrose is great, I like the way her approach to problem-solving isn't just about 'hit it myself', I was wondering whether it was heading into cheap voyeurism at the start but it was a refreshing take on the scenario and how she deals with it. I suppose key positive points include both the context of why she is dressed the way she is, and also the agency or lack of it assigned to her being a key part of her introduction and something reflected on throughout the chapter. It'll be interesting to see how the whole cast and game world work together in context, but I liked the way she isn't just another happy-go-lucky sexy dancer signing up to skip through some dungeons in her favourite skimpy dress with no further comment on where she fits into the scenario.
I also liked the retired knight, where his conversations with the villagers revolve around training them to protect themselves. A bit like Steiner in FFIX, I like having some characters that aren't young people that need the whole planet explained to them. Music is good too, and the way they listened to player feedback on various aspects (running speed, making it clearer what is scenery and what is a viable path) is encouraging. Fascinated to see how the core 'Octopath' idea works, whether you choose a main character and only see their intro, or whether you play the intros of them all as chapter prologues in one single campaign.
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Started that Digimon game everyone raves about over the weekend. "They designed it for adults, not kids!" they say...Riiiiiight.
People have mentioned the detective's design before (again: whhhyyy?), but even the incidental characters are awful. Every woman is wearing skin-tight clothes?!
People have mentioned the detective's design before (again: whhhyyy?), but even the incidental characters are awful. Every woman is wearing skin-tight clothes?!
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