For the theater sake I believe they probably didn't want to make it too long which makes sense.
That's I why I sincerely hope they release an extended edition.
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Black Panther |OT| Wakanda Forever (Unmarked Spoilers)
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For the theater sake I believe they probably didn't want to make it too long which makes sense.
That's I why I sincerely hope they release an extended edition.
Agree, I felt that Killmonger had some pretty valid critiques of the isolationist philosophy that Wakanda ran with for centuries.
To me, it felt like the movie tried to do too much, too quickly in its third act. T'Challa got beaten down, 'killed', found, restored and somehow became stronger than Killmonger in the span of what, two days in-universe? It felt a bit rushed, like it could've been longer.
That's literally my only complaint about this entire movie. T'Challa doesn't have a plan when he goes up against Killmonger a second time: He just hopes people will follow him, Killmonger will accept his challenge and that he'll somehow be able to best the guy that mortally wounded him only a few days earlier. Killmonger's defeat doesn't feel earned. T'Challa got lucky. He didn't beat Killmonger with his words and intellect, because he was stronger than him or because he understood Wakanda and the plight of being Black Panther better: He just got fortunate Killmonger's suit hadn't completely closed on that one particular spot on his body.
So yeah, I sorta get the pacing comments. For a movie that does so much right, the final confrontation felt a bit rushed. Wouldn't say that's a matter of being bored: Quite the opposite really. Would've liked to see Killmonger struggle some more while T'Challa rebuilds his strength.
A fascist state where he'd kill anyone that feels loyalty or sympathy for T'Challa?
As soon as his plan was revealed all I was thinking about was how easily this could backfire with the relatively small number of weapons being sent out and the possibility of the wielders getting killed and the weapons confiscated and used by the people they opposed. The shawl shield seems to only work when it is put up, nothing is stopping a bullet from hitting someone wielding one of those spears.
Just got back from seeing it with the gf. We both liked it, but thought it was one of the weaker marvel movies.
I enjoyed the characters and the overall plot, but felt the pacing was off. My gf actually fell asleep at one point and we both thought the movie was close to 3 hours because honestly that's what it felt like. I really empathized with killmonger and thought he was a good antagonist. Shame they killed him off, but his final words really stuck with me.
I enjoyed the characters and the overall plot, but felt the pacing was off. My gf actually fell asleep at one point and we both thought the movie was close to 3 hours because honestly that's what it felt like. I really empathized with killmonger and thought he was a good antagonist. Shame they killed him off, but his final words really stuck with me.
Oh I was wrong, it's this one, Khotso. Went back because I thought the designs on the blanket I pictured differed from the one Martin Freeman wore.
Damn, thanks for this piece of research tidbit. I remember thinking to myself that those capes/quilts looked comfortable as fuck.
And when they incorporated a force field like quality to it, that put them over the top. lol
Now I need to go purchase one.
Despite my comments about the film's execution failing on multiple levels to force it into a decent end product, the one thing they fucking knocked out of the stratosphere is the production quality of the set, wardrobe and certain cinematic shots of the naturally wonderous beauty of Africa. I mean, nobody expected Deakins-tier film capture, but some of the shots in the film were wonderful to experience on a theatre screen.
I disagree, you look at films like Hacksaw Ridge or any movie made by Ridley Scott in the last 10 years and there is evident pacing issues.
That being said someone criticizing BP for pacing issues seems mendacious at best.
What connection does tchalla have with Zuri? You're literally missing the what's happening in that moment. Kilmonger killed his uncle who HE had known his whole life, because he felt the cause the wakandans were fighting to keep isolated was mistaken.
Like holy shit, did you watch this movie?
It's literally spelt out "is this your king?" as he beats him to a pulp.
No, none of the tribe leaders have royal bloodline.
That was Nakia who sneaked in, not Shuri.
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I think I figured out your quote block.
From the first black panther, the council of the five tribes, those are the first royalty. It's assumed that modern day are royal bloodline.
Just got out of my IMAX showing and I loved everything about the movie.
I plan to watch it again sometime this weekend (probably Monday).
I plan to watch it again sometime this weekend (probably Monday).
This was one of the best Marvel movies. Story, characters, soundtrack, cinematography, all very good. I didn't want it to end and honestly I would have liked another half hour of that bad guy ruling over Wakanda while T'Challa was preparing to return.
He was always stronger than him, in their first fight he was not focused, he was conflicted about the truth of what his father did.
Yo just got back, Wow what a movie. I was expecting atrocious CGI, the shit CGI wasn't anywhere worse than the shit CGI in other Marvel or DC movies. Chadwick's stoicness whoa I can't believe we got the real BP on the big screen. Everyone saying MBJ took the spotlight, I don't see it, sure he had the better lines, but Chadwick's demeanor was on point, he was the T'Challa I always pictured.
Just like Evans is Cap, RDJ is Tony, I can't see anyone else play T'Challa better than Chadwick did.
Just like Evans is Cap, RDJ is Tony, I can't see anyone else play T'Challa better than Chadwick did.
Watched it yesterday, good movie, but I don`t quite think it`s a masterpiece or anything. The mostly all-black cast was awesome and I loved the soundtrack and that one car chase sequence. But for my tastes it`s still to "marvel-y" at many times. For example the part where T`challas sister runs that dude over and it`s played as a joke? I found that to be a bit weird considering the tone of the movie. I also find T`challa to be a bit uninteresting as a character.
Edit: Oh yeah, the design of the costumes and the set-design and everything is just marvelous.
Edit: Oh yeah, the design of the costumes and the set-design and everything is just marvelous.
Just also have to say that as a Bay Area native, seeing Oakland and a Tim Hardaway reference in this film warmed my heart immediately.
After just having seen it, I really, really enjoyed it. There's a lot of layers to it that can be easily overlooked if folks are just wanting to go into this movie to "turn their brains off" at the comic book popcorn movie.
It's the best one I've seen since Guardians 1, and probably the best one out of them all. I thought the movie was very powerful at times, and it's something I'd love to see again.
It's the best one I've seen since Guardians 1, and probably the best one out of them all. I thought the movie was very powerful at times, and it's something I'd love to see again.
It's a henchmen who dies. big whoop? They just killed like 87 people in the casino.
Oh. So I want to understand this right. The four tribe chieftains of today are of royal blood because of their connection to the five original tribes, and not because they are of T'Challa's family bloodline right?
I know, it`s just a nitpick, but the movie felt so nicely "pro-human" up until that point. Just felt it was a little bit weird.
yes?
That's how monarchies work?
I guess yeah, from her point of view it was messed up in that sense.
This movie is filled with so many great moments that thinking about one immediately gets me going about another 2 or 3. Can't wait to catch this again tomorrow.
And I really loved the score, been listening to it on Spotify. The moment in the Ancestral Plane where T'Chaka asks T'Challa to stand up as king...jesus. The music there is fucking TREMENDOUS. And I love how that same melody is carried through both T'Challa and Kilmonger's respective themes. In Kilmonger's, it's just a whisper playing around the sick beat, hinting at his royal roots.
What a film.
And I really loved the score, been listening to it on Spotify. The moment in the Ancestral Plane where T'Chaka asks T'Challa to stand up as king...jesus. The music there is fucking TREMENDOUS. And I love how that same melody is carried through both T'Challa and Kilmonger's respective themes. In Kilmonger's, it's just a whisper playing around the sick beat, hinting at his royal roots.
What a film.
the title card font was beautiful. wish it was on a poster like that
Ding ding ding.
Totally. It was a classic 'thematic fight' of what the whole movie was being set up from.
"Who are you/Who am I?"
"Its hard for a good man to be a good king"
The first fight was born of T'Challa wanting to cover up Killmonger's heritage (which was why it was important for him to have someone ask who he was). T'Challa is forced into it because he wanted to protect the kingdom (be a good king) over his anger at his father and uncle's deceit and wanting the truth (be a good man). In this scene, he is neither - failing both kingdom and his heart (Hey, look at that - in the next scene he literally loses the heart shaped herb).
The fight is constructed from a place where T'Challa is split between two ideals (man/king, heart/head, truth/lie and so on) whereas Killmonger is coming from a pure place, 100% focused. He is the better man (in the sense of winning the fight, and having a sense of vindication over T'Challa still lying) - BUT, and this is vital - unlike T'Challa in his first ceremonial fight (where he repeatedly demands M'Baku to yield as not to stain his own soul and start his reign in blood, even if it's within his right), he is not a better king. It is there, in that moment of Killmonger losing his 'better man' high ground through being cruel, that T'Challa's death and following rebirth (he literally freezes - again, another crucial acceptance of his own ego, unlike earlier in the movie "I never freeze" - and in his spirit quest rejects the notion from his father that set them on that path) he becomes both good man and king, and better than Killmonger at both.
In pure physicality, it was important that Eric is better (they make a point of him being taller and more impressive) but that was never the crux of either fight.
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It looked slick. Btw, I didn't take this photo, I found it on Twitter.
Man, thinking on it some more since people were criticising it for being too poorly lit, I realise how much the opening fight scene of the movie works as a microcosm of the film. Because for a few minutes you have an idealised Black Panther; the hunter in the jungle, a superhero for Africans both in terms of representation and in terms of people he saves. This is what he could be... and then as the film reveals, what he and his forebears have expressly chosen not to be, only coming out because one of their own was involved, and needed for an entirely unrelated matter. Had Nakia not been in there, those girls - and the one lad - would have been abandoned to their fate, just as so many others have been by Wakanda's isolationism. Yeah Nakia has her commentary on the matter, but I'm just realising how the construction of the whole thing serves the point so well.
There's just so much you can unpack with this movie.
There's just so much you can unpack with this movie.
...ok, um, pretty sure good dialogue doesn't require you to be articulate. Doesn't even require you to even play around with language. And why would anyone who defy what they're against speak or "play" on their terms? To anyone's for that matter. That even the truth has to be danced around with to satisfy someone's "need" to be entertained?
I wonder who else has been in every Coogler film.
Heh. I suppose none of that will matter once the Infinity Gauntlet is assembled.
In this world of Tr*mp; in the history of the world: what oppresses populations with a much dark complexion doesn't deserve an ounce of nuance.
It never did.
Nor it should ever.
I actually noticed that right away after the fight was done. Like, his ascension seemed more important what Nakia's undercover operation. Like, was stuff like this routine for them? That the operation can still be commenced after disrupting their plans? Was saving those outside of Wakanda some occasional passive hobby that can be cast off to the wind whenever something they prioritize pops up?
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The movie was amazing. Really beautiful movie. Best realized villain of MCU in my book too.
This also can't be quoted enough. I actually read your post to my girlfriend who wanted to add this in reference to the bolded: "That is just holding people of color to a higher standard than everyone else. Klaue was talking like a god damn pirate and no one is saying shit but a black person speaks in african-american vernacular and everyone loses their god damn minds."
I read her what you were replying to and she is still going off about it haha
This also can't be quoted enough. I actually read your post to my girlfriend who wanted to add this in reference to the bolded: "That is just holding people of color to a higher standard than everyone else. Klaue was talking like a god damn pirate and no one is saying shit but a black person speaks in african-american vernacular and everyone loses their god damn minds."
I read her what you were replying to and she is still going off about it haha
Probably not formally, but now I kinda want to see her use one anyway in the sequel.
I'm just assuming she can use it. Since T'Challa wasn't on the throne when he first used it. So Nakia wouldn't need to be on the throne either. I guess they just need to be part of the throne's house which she would be by being with T'Challa.
As a black woman, I felt like Wakanda wouldn't accept me for who I am because of their holier-than-thou philosophy behind their motives and culture. Its funny who all my friends including me walked out of the theatre and started criticizing Wakanda for making us African Americans sound like blood-thirsty ignorants who wouldn't know how to utilize Vibranium without resorting to violence. Its still upsetting to me personally that I, an African American Woman, was depicted this way. There's alot of issues with the movie in its depiction of races and their philosophies.
I liked it overall. It was more of an action movie for most of the middle parts, and only comic towards the end.
It was a little different, I thought, but maybe I'm just not remembering some of the earlier ones like CA2:WS.
It was a little different, I thought, but maybe I'm just not remembering some of the earlier ones like CA2:WS.
As amazing as Wakanda and it's culture is, it's no utopia.
The very fact that it's head political leader is determined by a trial by combat system means that it's using a idealogical framework rooted in "Might makes right", something any reasonable person can agree is bad.
That very framework allows a foreign madman to simply walk in, muscle his way to the throne, and subsequently demand that Wakanda start a world war with no justification beyond his own personal grudge while destroying it's cultural touchstones with no one seemingly being able to do anything to stop it.
Really, when I think about it, it's amazing they managed to stay hidden for so long. All it'd take is one idiot who happens to be skilled enough fighter to win the throne and then make some wide impact decision.
The complaints are actually quite valid, I thought it was a real slog to get through for the middle part of the film
Anyone else (pleasantly) surprised that Klaue got killed so early? I went in pretty blind and while I knew there was MBJ's other-Panther as an antagonist, I didn't really know he'd take over. So when the Henchman turns out to actually be the threat, that was cool.
I also had a moment when I wondered why Klaue's hired help would bother the risky move if busting him out (other than plot convenience) but turns out there was a good reason.
I also had a moment when I wondered why Klaue's hired help would bother the risky move if busting him out (other than plot convenience) but turns out there was a good reason.
I actually thought the movie was really well paced. It didn't feel as long as it was to me.
This movie was incredible. I had butterflies in my stomach when they were doing the king ascension ritual the first time. I need to go see it again asap. Holy shit, what a movie!
I know we are talking about comics but I just feel the need to point out that Odin never did that shit in norse mythos and its a complete bastardization.