Mike Harris casts a long shadow of common sense over that party. They simultaneously want to embrace his terrible policies while also running completely away from them because we realized afterwards just how bad a 'revolution' it was
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Canada PoliERA |OT| Two Years of Sunny Days? That’s Scheer Madness!
- Thread starter Caz
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Alabama elected a Democrat last year...does that mean Ontario will elect Horwath with a majority government?
Brown's chances of re-winning the leadership are the same as the Habs' chances of winning the Cup this season.
zilch..
Ford is the wildcard.
zilch..
Ford is the wildcard.
Did you all see the news that CTV said there was at least one other woman who had allegations against Brown, but they didn't peruse them because she had publicly supported the Liberal party? That seems... kind of messed up, no? I get being wary of political hit jobs, but not even looking into it due to party support is weird as hell, especially in the context of multiple women coming forward.
There would have been a way bigger target against the CTV if they mentioned the third accuser by some people that support Brown. I also think they did not want to report the accusation because of the person's connection to the OLP. I do think they should have reported on it anyway.
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Enh, I think every province has some pretty messed up politics if you think about it. Newfoundland is on the verge of bankruptcy, and may become the first province ever to request a bailout from the federal government. Manitoba's premier flees to Costa Rica for at least six weeks every winter, and the person with the best chance to replace him has some seriously sketchy stuff in his past. Saskatchewan just blurred the line in a really bad way between politics and the bureaucracy when the Saskatchewan Party allowed the province's most senior civil servant to run for leadership. Quebec effectively only has one federalist party, despite separatism being pretty dead at the moment.
Admittedly, the OPC leadership race is...unique, but I don't think there are any provincial situations that could be described as totally normal.
Well the current Prime Minister is hardly a working class man of the people and he did ok (insert picture of 1960s Mercedes Benz roadster here).
What's the actual concern here? That Singh is going to lose working class, rural Ontario ridings? The NDP lost the entirety of the GTA in the last election, which is a crazy and untenable situation. If a dapper, cycling enthusiast candidate helps in the GTA but hurts in working class rural areas, it's likely a beneficial tradeoff.
Going beyond the fact that Singh is a clothing nerd, from Singh's personal story of having to become the breadwinner of his family, he has a much closer connection to the real issues of working class people than any of the other candidates.
For the other parties, criticizing Singh on his looks and wealth is fraught with peril. Trudeau obviously is a trust fund kid and his party has been criticized for siding with multi-millionaires over middle class Canadians on tax issues. It's would be a pot calling the kettle black situation. The line of attack would make more sense for the Conservatives, but if anything they're going to want to pump Singh's tires to try to split the left.
Well it's hard to say that you're a voice for the labour force when many of your constituents can't afford one. It's all optics. Not to mention his BMW he rolls around.
don't tell me you're for the middle class rolling around in a jacket many can't afford. What does he knows of the troubles of others?
don't tell me you're for the middle class rolling around in a jacket many can't afford. What does he knows of the troubles of others?
He did do pro bono and legal aid type work in Toronto for a while, so I assume he knows something about it. Albeit not from lived experience.
I remember watching an interview with Tom Ford where he said he would never dress a president or first lady because he felt it wouldn't send the right message and something along the lines of representatives dressing modestly.
It's hard to draw hard lines on these things because ultimately I think it's pretty arbitrary and how much individuals value aesthetics and *which* businesses they are supporting (i.e. if the money goes back to Canadian businesses anyways, does it matter?) in representations of our countries, but if it's taxpayer money I agree that there should be some modesty involved since it's ultimately just a look.
But Singh buying the coat he wants with his own money? Go for it. Rather that than get into a whirlpool of Hannity-esque controversy about what politicians look like or choose to do with their own money.
It's hard to draw hard lines on these things because ultimately I think it's pretty arbitrary and how much individuals value aesthetics and *which* businesses they are supporting (i.e. if the money goes back to Canadian businesses anyways, does it matter?) in representations of our countries, but if it's taxpayer money I agree that there should be some modesty involved since it's ultimately just a look.
But Singh buying the coat he wants with his own money? Go for it. Rather that than get into a whirlpool of Hannity-esque controversy about what politicians look like or choose to do with their own money.
They are going with a ranked ballot as well which kills most chance for Brown along with tossing out a ton of questionable memberships he brought it. Christine will probably win on being the second choice of Caroline or Ford's teams. I don't see where Brown gets the support. The So Con wing has Granic Allen, Ford has the reactionary populist wing and Caroline and Christine have the centrist establishment and the caucus behind them,
We are under a federal leader that is defined by his wealth, style and family heritage. Singh has to play that game or he will be dismissed comparatively. If we were under a much less glamorous leader then sure it might be brought up but he and his people would be more concerned with being seen as not cool enough these days.
For broader context pretty much every major leader federally or provincially and in pretty much any other Western democracy and beyond has come from wealth throughout history. It is a feature of our political systems not a bug. Politics is much more inside baseball and an arena of the wealthy than many people realize. The presence of their wealth as a positive or negative feature is defined more by the moment than their politics.
I mean. What is he supposed to do, wear a tattered jacket to pretend he's poorer than he is?
Canada Goose winter jackets are common, ubiquitous here even. They are not a particular symbol of wealth at all. He's not strutting around wearing bling-bling and extravagant fur coats or whatever. I'm sorry, but this really seems like a grasping at straws to attack the guy, and I'm not even a big Jagmeet fan.
Hey i'm all for dressing sharply. But don't come as a white knight trying to fight the elites in parliament rolling in your BMW and clothing worth more than what most people take in annually. The median income in canada for individuals is around $27k, and the political leaders should be sensitive to that.
edit: everyone in this thread owns a canada goose $1000 jacket but me. God i'm poor.
edit: everyone in this thread owns a canada goose $1000 jacket but me. God i'm poor.
I don't own a Canada Goose jacket. :P My current winter coat was bought for $130 during a clearance literally 10 years ago. But yes, I see them every day in the subway, at the grocery store, etc. And honestly more often from immigrants, lol.
I see the point you're making, I just don't think this particular brand is a really significant symbol/status of wealth. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I see the point you're making, I just don't think this particular brand is a really significant symbol/status of wealth. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My winter coat was $100 even on a sears clearance. But if you're rocking a $1000 jacket, than your financial priorities are clearly on a different level than mine.
So i don't see how someone with that kind of disposable income could begin to understand my needs or that of my mother who is on disability. Which is why i cringe whenever he talks about social equity.
So i don't see how someone with that kind of disposable income could begin to understand my needs or that of my mother who is on disability. Which is why i cringe whenever he talks about social equity.
I don't really care about the jacket, but the idea of a national party leader taking a photo like that just seems incredibly odd.
Has the NDP not been the party of the champagne socialism for the upper-middle class for a while now? That's how I've viewed them with the Leap Manifesto and Free University Tuition policies that have been popular at their last two conventions.
Edit: but then with the Liberal's "middle"-class tax cut and the CPC's love of boutique tax credits they're all about the upper-middle/lower-upper class too.
I don't think Trudeau can attack Singh on Singh's lifestyle given he's in similar position and it's an especially hard line of attack with Trudeau's unethical vacation.
Edit: but then with the Liberal's "middle"-class tax cut and the CPC's love of boutique tax credits they're all about the upper-middle/lower-upper class too.
I don't think Trudeau can attack Singh on Singh's lifestyle given he's in similar position and it's an especially hard line of attack with Trudeau's unethical vacation.
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It's obvious that Singh is wealthy and hasn't personally experienced the struggles of low income Canadians, though neither have any of the other candidates for prime minister.
In his speeches he often raises his experience in helping his family get through his fathers illness as giving him a short glimpse of what many low income Canadians struggle with every day.
From this article:
His more direct life experience which is shared with many Canadians but not the other leaders, is that he's been racially profiled often.
It's pretty clear that Jagmeet is a clothes nerd. I recall seeing some typical NDP campaign photo with him and a bunch of union construction worker dudes, and instead of Jagmeet wearing some generic workwear that you'd find at Marks Work Warehouse, he was wearing a chorecoat from a heritage, Made in USA™, brand. It was still actual workwear and a normally priced a piece of clothing, but only a clothes nerd would go out of their way to track that brand down instead of just wearing Dickies or something.
I don't think trudeau or the liberal machine has ever used social status as an avenue of attack of political leaders. but it's always rich when it's directed his way. Pot meet kettle.
Are we forgetting the ordeal a few months ago where the Liberals tried to close small business loopholes and it was very unpopular?
Uhhh. no.
The conservatives did a good job controlling the narrative as their leaked deck hinted at. But no one ever asked me if I thought the current tax regime was a fair apparatus. Not all policy will be a popular one, doesn't mean it shouldn't be pursued or have the discussion opened up.
Seriously, or when Rona Ambrose tweets out the Agha Khan <sp?> issue on the yacht of her boyfriend. Or Scheer owning numbered companies. From Singh toTrudeau to Scheer, they all live upper class lives. It's rich to call Liberals elites when NDP and Conservatives enjoy the same wealthy lifestyle.
Good article by Andrew Leach from Maclean's opining on the conundrum between Alberta and BC and what the PM has to deal with.
http://www.macleans.ca/economy/econ...e-fight-could-undo-our-national-climate-plan/
More at the link including graphs!
Horgan may be the best thing to happen for the conservative movement. By blocking a pipeline plan it puts in doubt a national climate plan and everything may come crumbling down. Thanks Obama!
http://www.macleans.ca/economy/econ...e-fight-could-undo-our-national-climate-plan/
More at the link including graphs!
Horgan may be the best thing to happen for the conservative movement. By blocking a pipeline plan it puts in doubt a national climate plan and everything may come crumbling down. Thanks Obama!
I think Trudeau put his own national climate change plan at risk from day one when he developed it seemingly wholly around Alberta's interests, and not those of BC (or potentially any other province for that matter).
From the cited National Observer article.
BC didn't need a helping hand from the federal government when it implemented its carbon tax in 2008. I don't see why Alberta needs so much help in order to start contributing to meeting Canada's climate targets now. If Alberta does indeed need such significant incentives to implement policies to mitigate climate change, then why are these incentives only for Alberta and not for BC? If the squeakiest wheel (Alberta) is getting the grease then I can't help but agree with Horgan's strategy here. If BC is obligated to take part in a deal and take on so much new risk in order for "Canada" (read: Alberta) to meet its climate change goals then this deal should include BC.
BC is not risking Canada's climate change goals. Let's be clear at this point the Federal government and the rest of the provinces have done shit all on this issue up to this point.
Edit: Trudeau here seems like he thinks that the fact that the rest of Canada is getting a carbon tax and is finally going to work to tackle climate change problems is the big win for BC. It's not. That's near irrelevant.
From the cited National Observer article.
BC didn't need a helping hand from the federal government when it implemented its carbon tax in 2008. I don't see why Alberta needs so much help in order to start contributing to meeting Canada's climate targets now. If Alberta does indeed need such significant incentives to implement policies to mitigate climate change, then why are these incentives only for Alberta and not for BC? If the squeakiest wheel (Alberta) is getting the grease then I can't help but agree with Horgan's strategy here. If BC is obligated to take part in a deal and take on so much new risk in order for "Canada" (read: Alberta) to meet its climate change goals then this deal should include BC.
BC is not risking Canada's climate change goals. Let's be clear at this point the Federal government and the rest of the provinces have done shit all on this issue up to this point.
Edit: Trudeau here seems like he thinks that the fact that the rest of Canada is getting a carbon tax and is finally going to work to tackle climate change problems is the big win for BC. It's not. That's near irrelevant.
Well I was more speaking to the leadership of creating a carbon tax first. But yeah Ontario's phase out of coal plants was always going to cause a big impact. BC in contrast doesn't have any similar "big wins." Similarly you're not going to see the needle move in PEI where 90% of the energy is already wind power.
American here, why does Trudeau need Alberta on board to implement his climate change program to begin with? He doesn't have any sort of constituency there, so is this part of the federalized structure of Canadian governance?
Great question. Why doesn't Trudeau just implement a national carbon tax price, burn the political capital, and tell everyone who whines to stop being an obstacle to helping mitigate climate change?
The TransMountain pipeline issue is totally independent of Canada meeting its climate targets with a national carbon tax.
The TransMountain pipeline issue is totally independent of Canada meeting its climate targets with a national carbon tax.
it's a social license as they keep talking about. If alberta is on board, the province that produces the oil, than the right can't argue about carbon pricing. It's the moderate (yes, centrist approach). Imagine if texas agreed to a carbon tax, but on condition that they could market their oil. If texas was in, it is a lot easier to persuade the other states to join in pricing their carbon footprint. (only Nixon could go to china so to speak) Currently Alberta is governed by a far left government (think Bernie Sanders left), so their hold on power is tenuous. They WANT to implement a carbon price but they also need to market their resource. It's a bit of a conundrum. there's a back and forth between the provinces and the federal government. Ultimately the feds have final say. It's a bit of a soap opera.
Center-left party in power currently in Alberta has implemented policies that attempt to reduce Alberta's carbon emissions. The provincial carbon tax is one of the policies implemented. They implemented the carbon tax before trudeau's government came up with the carbon tax. The current Alberta government is also using their carbon emission reduction policies as leverage to get the federal government to build an upgrade to an existing pipeline. A center right/right wing party that is currently the opposition in Alberta who is lead by a former federal politican is way more pro-oil and are not as open as the governing party in dealing with climate change. They also have climate change deniers in their party. Also the Alberta NDP is not far left.
A CTV analyst had this to say about Patrick Brown's entrance into the Ontario PC leadership race.
Vancouver has reaped a lot of benefits to being a port city, and the only major port city on Canada's West coast, much like Alberta's reaped a lot of benefits from oil and gas None of them would be anywhere near as prosperous and large today if it weren't for those geographical advantages. But part of being a port city in a federation is you have to handle everybody's trade based on the national interest, not just what you want. You can't just accept enough oil & gas for flights out of Vancouver airports or local gasoline for your cars and arbitrarily block all shipments overseas.
And I'd hardly say Trudeau's done nothing for B.C. on this matter. He arbitrarily blocked the Northern Gateway (a move that seems to have earned him absolutely no political capital on this file) and there's the $1.5 billion ocean protection plan. Landlocked provinces like Alberta and Saskatchewan don't benefit directly from the ocean protection plan or the coast guard but the government doesn't raise taxes or get naval and coast guard ships built with Ship Money either.
And I'd hardly say Trudeau's done nothing for B.C. on this matter. He arbitrarily blocked the Northern Gateway (a move that seems to have earned him absolutely no political capital on this file) and there's the $1.5 billion ocean protection plan. Landlocked provinces like Alberta and Saskatchewan don't benefit directly from the ocean protection plan or the coast guard but the government doesn't raise taxes or get naval and coast guard ships built with Ship Money either.
That is a vast misrepresentation as to where the Alberta NDP stand politically.
That's because that announcement coincided with his approval over two other pipelines.
I honestly am generally in favour of the TransMountain pipeline, because I totally buy into the logic of what Trudeau is doing with Alberta, in leveraging the pipeline in order to grow support for broader climate change goals.
My problem is with the notion that while it's apparently ok to participate in political deal making to get Alberta on board with climate change action, this isn't the case for BC where the project is "in the national interest" and there's seemingly no room for negotiation at all. That's bullshit. Either deal making is allowed for all parties affected, or it's not allowed at all.
I'd support the TransMountain pipeline if I felt that BC was receiving benefits that in any way are close to equivalent to the risks that coastal communities are being asked to take on, but at the moment I don't think that is the case at all. "Billion dollar spill response" *waves hands vaguely* feels like a pretty worthless gesture to me when you have ecology experts confirming that the concerns the BC government has about the unknown variables around dilbit cleanup are indeed warranted and more research is required.
What I'd like to see here is an acknowledgement from the federal government that more "social license" is needed to sell this project to affected communities in BC, and some real movement in their position.
My problem is with the notion that while it's apparently ok to participate in political deal making to get Alberta on board with climate change action, this isn't the case for BC where the project is "in the national interest" and there's seemingly no room for negotiation at all. That's bullshit. Either deal making is allowed for all parties affected, or it's not allowed at all.
I'd support the TransMountain pipeline if I felt that BC was receiving benefits that in any way are close to equivalent to the risks that coastal communities are being asked to take on, but at the moment I don't think that is the case at all. "Billion dollar spill response" *waves hands vaguely* feels like a pretty worthless gesture to me when you have ecology experts confirming that the concerns the BC government has about the unknown variables around dilbit cleanup are indeed warranted and more research is required.
What I'd like to see here is an acknowledgement from the federal government that more "social license" is needed to sell this project to affected communities in BC, and some real movement in their position.
Regardless of where you'd place the NDP on the political spectrum it should be noted that both BC and Alberta have NDP governments. The NDP is unique in Canada in that it is actually one party federally and provincially.
Comparing the top posts of the last month on the BC and Alberta subreddits is a fun exercise.
https://www.reddit.com/r/britishcolumbia/top/?sort=top&t=month
https://www.reddit.com/r/alberta/top/?sort=top&t=month
Comparing the top posts of the last month on the BC and Alberta subreddits is a fun exercise.
https://www.reddit.com/r/britishcolumbia/top/?sort=top&t=month
https://www.reddit.com/r/alberta/top/?sort=top&t=month
Also the logic that Trans Mountain should be ok because Northern Gateway was canned is based on the assumption that opposition to these pipelines is centred solely around concerns of CO2 emission growth. That is true that that is a concern, but an additional strong concern is the impact of dilbit spills on coastal communities, ecologies and economies. From this point of view while it is good that Northern Gateway was canned, this fact means nothing to communities and ecologies in another area which would be impacted by Trans Mountain.
Tomorrow and possibly Wednesday will definitely be interesting.
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