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djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,456
It's not really all on the PM. his staff and the RCMP have to be on top of these things. He can't manage his entire scheduling, especially if this came to be because of a backbencher.
 

Deleted member 12950

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,151
Canada
It would be nice to know who screwed up and how it happened, it should take more than a backbench MP requesting Atwal be added to some guest lists and for him to be able to stick on it given Atwal's past. Was it the High Commision to India, the RCMP, Foreign Affairs, or the PMO?

Paul Wells with a pretty critical piece on the trip overall, not just the Atwal invitations or the clothes:
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,426
The scandal here should be that Brown thinks it's ok with how much he's paying toward servicing debts because it's in line with what other Ontarians play, while neglecting the obvious fact that it's incredibly problematic how in debt Canadians are in general in contrast with other developed countries.
 

Pedrito

Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,368
Watch the Hindu-Canadian vote go Conservative.

On a similar topic, what's the deal with the chinese community* protesting alongside La Meute and Storm Alliance?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/la-meute-storm-alliance-protest-parliament-hill-1.4541519

Strange bedfellows. Also why do some chinese care that much about the "hijab hoax"? So some person somewhere said the fake attacker was "asian" and you feel personnaly targeted? Enough to organize protests? That's weird and it sounds like manufactured outrage.

*well, like a dozen people...
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
Urban White Liberals wear rose colored glasses when it comes to denying conservatism among some ethnic minority groups.
They don't believe it exists and think that all minorities are in the bag.

Iggnatief learned that the hard way when Jason Kenney courted various communities with "Your values are Conservative values"
 

Pedrito

Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,368
There's no problem with minorities (or anyone) being conservatives, but this particular situation is so weird to me. How anyone could think it's "protest-worthy"? Was is organized by Ezra?
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,456
On a similar topic, what's the deal with the chinese community* protesting alongside La Meute and Storm Alliance?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/la-meute-storm-alliance-protest-parliament-hill-1.4541519

Strange bedfellows. Also why do some chinese care that much about the "hijab hoax"? So some person somewhere said the fake attacker was "asian" and you feel personnaly targeted? Enough to organize protests? That's weird and it sounds like manufactured outrage.

*well, like a dozen people...

As someone who is part of the community i have no idea. I know from some asian friends that they vote conservative purely for the tax policy. But why these people would stand with La Meute makes no sense. I don't know much about the alt right groups in Canada so i don't know how they're resonating with the asian community.
 

Vamphuntr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,301
On a similar topic, what's the deal with the chinese community* protesting alongside La Meute and Storm Alliance?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/la-meute-storm-alliance-protest-parliament-hill-1.4541519

Strange bedfellows. Also why do some chinese care that much about the "hijab hoax"? So some person somewhere said the fake attacker was "asian" and you feel personnaly targeted? Enough to organize protests? That's weird and it sounds like manufactured outrage.

*well, like a dozen people...

It's the Chinese Canadian Alliance. Chinese can be racists too. It's another alt-right group but for Chinese Canadian. I don't know what's so mysterious about this.
 

Pedrito

Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,368
It's the Chinese Canadian Alliance. Chinese can be racists too. It's another alt-right group but for Chinese Canadian. I don't know what's so mysterious about this.

Thanks, never heard of them before. What is mysterious to me is why they would choose "hijab hoax" as an excuse to burst into the scene. Surely they have more pressing concerns? But if, like you said, it's an alt-right group for Chinese, maybe not.
 
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djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,456
I feel like there's more to this than what the article presents... Considering this is a relatively new group with little known prior history that is cozy with Rebel chants... I would almost classify this group as foreign born immigrants that may harbour a simplistic view of race relations in western countries and are being exploited for political gain? I know my mother from time to time would attribute the plight in the middle east to muslims there, but not towards canadian muslims.

Still, there's something unsettling about this demonstration.

Most Asians (first generations and beyond) know to fight racism at all cost like myself. As the country could quickly turn on any one group of people due to global events.
 

Vamphuntr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,301
Thanks, never heard of them before. What is mysterious to me is why they would choose "hijab hoax" as an excuse to burst into the scene. Surely they have more pressing concerns? But if, like you said, it's an alt-right group for Chinese, maybe not.

They were chanting about Rebel Media I don't think there is much doubt about them being alt-right or at the very least paid by Rebel Media. I would think they just wanted an excuse to do a demonstration for their first time as an official group. I mean on they even thanked La Meute for showing up. There isn't any doubt in my mind.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,161
I thought the choices for Federal government were bad, but being an Ontarian really is a fucking shit show when it comes to what we get to pick from.
 

Deleted member 643

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,365
Also why do some chinese care that much about the "hijab hoax"? So some person somewhere said the fake attacker was "asian" and you feel personnaly targeted? Enough to organize protests? That's weird and it sounds like manufactured outrage.
You really don't understand why some people from a minority group might be upset that she implicated their race in a made-up attack when they already suffer from discrimination? Really?

Now I'm not saying they should be out there protesting with alt-right people, but you don't understand the sentiment as a whole at all?
 

Simon Belmont

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,037
What financial institution would give someone two million dollars in credit if they're going to have to pay 75% or their income servicing it? Like for real, I work for a bank and I have no idea how this scenario comes to pass.
 

SRG01

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,014
Thanks, never heard of them before. What is mysterious to me is why they would choose "hijab hoax" as an excuse to burst into the scene. Surely they have more pressing concerns? But if, like you said, it's an alt-right group for Chinese, maybe not.

There is a disturbing amount of alt-right Chinese out there. I've seen it first hand in my communities -- primarily in lower-class blue collar immigrants or in self-segregated communities.

Like, what the fuck. I understand that alt-right sentiments foster in low-information systems, but still.
 

simplayer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
137
Yeah I mean "revenue neutral" is a hand wavey sort of term. You're right that since the tax cuts are applied to everyone, but the extra CO2 costs are not paid by everyone, CO2 users are paying more. I've always assumed that the intention of the revenue neutrality concept was that typical public end users don't see much change (ie. they're fully compensated for the extra gas costs) and the extra CO2 revenue is coming from big industry emitters. I don't know if I'm confused about how the implementation of revenue neutrality works someone please correct me.
Depends on the CO2 mix in the economy. I know the In the US, transportation overtook electricity production, so the hit would be more on the transportation side. I imagine for Ontario would be even more heavy on transportation since electricity generation is hydro or nuclear. Don't know how it looks in practice though.
 
Oct 25, 2017
319
Ottawa, Canada
What financial institution would give someone two million dollars in credit if they're going to have to pay 75% or their income servicing it? Like for real, I work for a bank and I have no idea how this scenario comes to pass.

Like Randomly Generated said, there's something really fishy about Brown. He's been an elected official for 12 years, meaning he's had a six-figure salary for that long, in addition to a housing allowance. But according to the affidavit he released yesterday (which, itself, was all kinds of weird), his parents gave him $375k for his down payment, on the exact same day that an apparent "business deal" between him and a PC candidate fell through that happened to be for the exact same amount.

Plus there are all those donations and memberships that went into the party that don't match up, if what Fedeli said is true. And, of course, Hillier's complaint reinforced a lot of that, AND it came out today that the Integrity Commissioner was already investigating him. So...maybe it's all a series of misunderstandings, but it feels like there's way too much smoke for their to be no fire.

There is a disturbing amount of alt-right Chinese out there. I've seen it first hand in my communities -- primarily in lower-class blue collar immigrants or in self-segregated communities.

Like, what the fuck. I understand that alt-right sentiments foster in low-information systems, but still.

I remember reading years ago that, post-Tiananmen Square, as left-wing groups started reaching out to their counterparts in China/Chinese dissidents started fleeing more to the West, there was a lot of surprise at how comfortable the Chinese generally were with authoritarianism, even if they held other beliefs that were radically left-wing (even though, obviously, neither the right nor the left has a monopoly on authoritarians). If that's still true, then I could see how there'd be inroads for the alt-right into ethnic Chinese communities.
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,026
I remember reading years ago that, post-Tiananmen Square, as left-wing groups started reaching out to their counterparts in China/Chinese dissidents started fleeing more to the West, there was a lot of surprise at how comfortable the Chinese generally were with authoritarianism, even if they held other beliefs that were radically left-wing (even though, obviously, neither the right nor the left has a monopoly on authoritarians). If that's still true, then I could see how there'd be inroads for the alt-right into ethnic Chinese communities.

But alt-right Chinese have nothing to do with authoritarianism. Growing up as an overseas Chinese, my parents routinely called brown people in places like Malayasia "natives" and Chinese people are always referred to as 'our people' as opposed to those other people who aren't us. This was endemic in the language used by all the little pockets of overseas Chinese. And we're supposed to be the 'democrats' and westernized Chinese.

The language is still loaded with racist overtones. Culturally Chinese are very very ethnocentric and not PC.
 
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Prax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,755
Conspiracy theorists and racism runs the whole gamut of populations. I fear my parents are listening to a bunch of alt-right-ish fox news version of Vietnamese programming but I don't understand vietnamese well enough to dissect it so.. >___> welp.
 

mo60

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,198
Edmonton, Alberta
I thought the choices for Federal government were bad, but being an Ontarian really is a fucking shit show when it comes to what we get to pick from.
Horwarth and the Ontario NDP seems okay, but I do wish her party was a bit more bold and visible. They also need to develop a decent platform in the next few months or so. The other two main Ontario parties are just awful. They are scandal prone, filled with corruption and a lot of their policy choices are questionable. A part of me does not want to see the Ontario PC's to see how groups like Ontario Proud react to the PC's losing.
 
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Terrell

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,624
Canada
I remember reading that a couple years ago. Really is sad to read about.

Still, maybe there are lessons to be learned from how they do it that could apply to us here in Canada.

First rule, don't privatize it.
Their public transportation program was a huge and expensive upfront investment that the government paid for, continued to sink more money into it to constantly improve reliability, speed and performance, which brought more ridership. It now funds itself in ticket/pass purchases and actually makes the Japanese government money, one of the only (if not the only) major metro public transport systems to operate at a profit, even after paying to re-invest in the infrastructure. Which is why they can afford to operate a train line for a single person in a remote region of Hokkaido.
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,456
Conspiracy theorists and racism runs the whole gamut of populations. I fear my parents are listening to a bunch of alt-right-ish fox news version of Vietnamese programming but I don't understand vietnamese well enough to dissect it so.. >___> welp.

It's funny, I have my suspicions with my mother, but i can't understand what her youtube videos are saying when I do visit her at home. Occasionally Trump's name is brought up but only briefly.
 

Prax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,755
It's funny, I have my suspicions with my mother, but i can't understand what her youtube videos are saying when I do visit her at home. Occasionally Trump's name is brought up but only briefly.
I know one of my parent's radio shows is garbage because it plays this trash propaganda song with lyrics that go like

"I support Trump
who will make America greaaaaat!!
God support Trump and the USAAAAAAAA"
and something about fighting the biased media. like holy crap, how do they escape from communist rule and get sucked back into this level of stupid.
 

Deleted member 12950

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
1,151
Canada
I know Caz posted about it the other day but holy crap, that Rebel investment fund sounds like a worse investment than lending money to a Kevin O'Leary political campaign:

 
OP
OP
Caz

Caz

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,055
Canada
Speaking of The Rebel: Ezra Levant's Rebel fund with a cause: What could go wrong?
If you're concerned that the far right isn't generating enough xenophobic content, then Ezra Levant has a deal for you: Invest your savings in the Rebel Freedom Fund and watch the anger flow.

The pitch: You get a stable source of income and he gets some much-needed funding to keep the lights on at The Rebel, his floundering online hub for Islamophobes and climate-change deniers.

And hey, it's also eligible for registered retirement savings plans. But be warned: Even acolytes of the far right may find the fund has less substance than Mr. Levant's famously shrill videos.
 

Mr.Mike

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,677
I'm a bit baffled that the Rebel fund would be able to get regulatory approval. I did searching and found this about unit trusts.

This is a trust for which the interest of each beneficiary can be described at any time by referring to units of the trust. A unit trust must also meet one of the three conditions described in subsection 108(2) of the Act.

The Act being referred to is the Income Tax Act. The third of the conditions mentioned in the quote above is about trusts predating 1993, which I feel safe in assuming isn't relevant here.

The second is, I think (the legalese is really dense), about trusts whose units are traded on public exchanges. In any case of the requirements there is this:

(v) throughout the relevant periods, not more than 10% of its property consisted of bonds, securities or shares in the capital stock of any one corporation or debtor other than Her Majesty in right of Canada or a province or a Canadian municipality, and

It seems clear the Rebel fund isn't meeting this requirement. So it would have to qualify under the first of the 3 conditions:

(2) For the purposes of this Act, a trust is a unit trust at any particular time if, at that time, it was an inter vivos trust the interest of each beneficiary under which was described by reference to units of the trust, and

  • (a) the issued units of the trust included
    • (i) units having conditions attached thereto that included conditions requiring the trust to accept, at the demand of the holder thereof and at prices determined and payable in accordance with the conditions, the surrender of the units, or fractions or parts thereof, that are fully paid, or

    • (ii) units qualified in accordance with prescribed conditions relating to the redemption of the units by the trust,
    and the fair market value of such of the units as had conditions attached thereto that included such conditions or as were so qualified, as the case may be, was not less than 95% of the fair market value of all of the issued units of the trust (such fair market values being determined without regard to any voting rights attaching to units of the trust);

So is the Rebel fund legal? I don't know (in an ideal world laws would be easier to grok), but it really shouldn't be. I'm guessing Levant can't get business loans from banks, so he's going to his audience for funding. But instead of doing an IPO or whatever else a business would normally do to get investment he's creating an investment fund that mostly only invests in his business.
 
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Mr.Mike

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,677
Also "Her Majesty" seems like poor wording to be using in our laws. Are we gonna have to change all of them if we get a king? Why not just "the Monarch"?
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,161
Horwarth and the Ontario NDP seems okay, but I do wish her party was a bit more bold and visible. They also need to develop a decent platform in the next few months or so. The other two main Ontario parties are just awful. They are scandal prone, filled with corruption and a lot of their policy choices are questionable. A part of me does not want to see the Ontario PC's to see how groups like Ontario Proud react to the PC's losing.
I mean it's academic because if I vote for a candidate and not "none of the above", it'd be NDP by default anyway. But it's not like it matters. lol Yay FPTP!
Can't be worse than Québec...
I would be perfectly happy voting QS in Quebec at least. :p
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,161
Also "Her Majesty" seems like poor wording to be using in our laws. Are we gonna have to change all of them if we get a king? Why not just "the Monarch"?
I assume it's like the the British Anthem, where they just change the word based on the gender.

The real question is, is the constitution equipped to handle non-binary/gender-queer monarchs?
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
all Quebec parties all suck. Here are my rankings
not voting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PLQ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>CAQ>QS>PQ

PLQ are a boring party with no ideas, there are just an establishment party of governance and doing an average to shit job at it. Federalist is a +. Them being highly interventionist is a -.

CAQ are a Natioanlist identy party and economical Center Right with a penchant of cutting services.
They have no idea what they stand for, their ideas change every year, they are not grounded, they are whatever.
They are also interventionist.

QS are Communists. I usually respect Left wing parties who fight for every-man but I have no respect for parties who are just a mouth piece for Union firsts then non-unionized workers 2nd. They are separatist commies.

PQ are interventionist authoritarian separatist and nationalist. They pretend to be Left but have been lead by Right Wing Premiers who engaged and massive gutting of public services. They are antagonistic and annoying.

I would respect a real Federalist Left Wing Party that fights for NON-unionized people. QS is just shit mouthpiece for the already powerful Quebec unions.
 
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firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,161
Honestly "not voting" would win everywhere in Canada. In fact, the low turnout numbers kind of prove that the not voting party has been gaining ground.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
Amir Khadir is my MNA. Having a QS MNA is better than a PQ MNA but he is still a separatist scumbag and a conspiracy theorist.
The alternative was worse, before him, my MNA used to be a PQ constitutionalist and shit disturber; Daniel Turp.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,314
I guess we live in the same riding, gutter_trash? Khadir is also in my riding and wins every time so w/e. I guess QS, much as I find them distasteful, are at least OK as "opposition". I would never want them to govern though.
 
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