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Pheneatis

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,827
Ottawa (ON)
So there's a school principle somewhere who dressed up a his idol: Bob Marley, complete in his usual outfit... and a fucking blackface. The guy put on some actual make-up to make his skin black, not knowing that it's extremely offense to do so. Of course there are articles about it, and I shit you not, I'm seeing the same intellectually dishonest argument that "the right" uses to defend the practice, whereby "blackface used to steal black jobs and mock blacks is an American practice, so that argument doesn't work here".

Like, what the fuck do you answer to that except with a "you are a fucking moron"? I can't believe this shit.

I don't want to excuse his behaviour, because he should have known better, especially in Montréal. However, I feel the need to say that most people in Québec hadn't even heard of blackface a decade ago. We never had those offensive shows running there. I actually had to ask my husband a few years ago to explain to me why it was SO bad because I had never been in contact with this problem.

Is it racist? Of course it is. It is as ingrained in our culture as it is for anglophones? No. So... yeah. It's just an issue that is a lot less known over there. I'm glad the new generation seems to know better (yay, Internet!) than the last. Hopefully that soon won't be an issue.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
Quebecers who understand English and consume American media know what BlackFace is. i understand how Francophones who never consume English language media may not know about BlackFace

but this is a Vice-Principal that is attended by allot of Haitian-Canadian students. A little conversation with the kids in his own school could have helped educate the VP.
 
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AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,011
What I'm talking about is a 20-something guy who knows what blackface is, and says "it is racist in America, but not here, because our history is different from that of the US". It's a shit argument that doesn't hold water. It's racist there and it's racist here. Geography doesn't change shit.
 

Pheneatis

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,827
Ottawa (ON)
What I'm talking about is a 20-something guy who knows what blackface is, and says "it is racist in America, but not here, because our history is different from that of the US". It's a shit argument that doesn't hold water. It's racist there and it's racist here. Geography doesn't change shit.

Oh of course. It is indeed unacceptable if you know about it. I was just trying to explain some of the context.
 

Razorskin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,431
Municipal elections in Quebec this weekend, I haven't landed on a candidate yet, leaning towards Project MTL but their platform seems like a lot of stuff that isn't ever happening.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
Municipal elections in Quebec this weekend, I haven't landed on a candidate yet, leaning towards Project MTL but their platform seems like a lot of stuff that isn't ever happening.
same here, I'm more voting against Coderre more then actually voting for Plante.

he does deserve to lose because of the Formula-E flop and own it. The two-week closure of Rene-Levesque Blvd pissed me off to no end during the summer and I got caught a couple of times in a loop of closed off streets in-between Griffontown, Old Montreal and Down-Town where it was impossible to go East bound.

Infoman went to an Electric Car dealership and asked him how many Electric Cars he could buy for 25 millions dollars (what the ctiy spent on the Formula-E), LOL.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,158
I guess there's controversy because Payette said people should believe climate change is real.

Seriously, just make the GG elected already or just have a computer occupy the role to make yes or no decisions on political conflicts. This "pseudo-leader" ceremonial thing is getting more and more anachronistic as time goes by.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,158
she's not wrong though, LOL
Butbutbut the Crown is supposed to be neutral! We're a constitutional monarchy after all! :p

At this point they might as well just make the last PM be the current GG. Why even get anyone potentially inspiring in that position if they're not supposed to do or say anything inspiring?
 

Deleted member 12950

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,151
Canada
Payette's tone might have been a bit too chiding but I didn't see much wrong with the speech. Besides, all the major parties in our parliament believe in climate change, they just all have very different policies to completely miss our Paris Agreement targets.

Government ministers publicly praising the speech and the opposition calling on the prime minister to condemn it on the other hand is not good. Governor generals make speeches on political topics all the time but they're not partisan and partisan parties shouldn't be openly cheering their actions.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,158
Payette's tone might have been a bit too chiding but I didn't see much wrong with the speech. Besides, all the major parties in our parliament believe in climate change, they just all have very different policies to completely miss our Paris Agreement targets.

Government ministers publicly praising the speech and the opposition calling on the prime minister to condemn it on the other hand is not good. Governor generals make speeches on political topics all the time but they're not partisan and partisan parties shouldn't be openly cheering their actions.
Sheer attacked the PM for defending Payette (why does Trudeau hate Muslims?!?!?!?), but not Payette directly. lol
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,158
What? How the hell is this controversial?
I might as well link the column. lol
http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/governor-general-speech-julie-payette-climate-change-1.4384481
The role of the Governor General is apolitical by design; as a representative of the Crown, she is expected to use her executive powers in the interest of Canada, and not a single party, or group or administration. The integrity of the role falls apart if the governor general is perceived to be of one camp or another.

For that reason, some will argue that the Governor General should never weigh in on topics that are even remotely political. They argue that while some people have decided that, for example, the science is settled on climate change, the very fact that debate still exists on the topic should preclude the Governor General from inserting herself in the conversation, lest she appear to be of a certain allegiance.

...

But she didn't do that. Instead, Payette essentially mocked people for believing in horoscopes, alternative medicine, divine intervention and for not believing in climate change, incredulous that some Canadians would hold those views "still today in learned society."

Perhaps you believe those people deserve to be mocked. That's fine. But there are more than 36 million Canadians whose job titles are not expressly to be impartial who can take on that responsibility. What's more, Canada has health, science and environment ministries that challenge climate change deniers and pseudoscientific medicine every single day. Our prime minister talks about the environment all the time. Payette's voice is not only damaging to her own credibility as an apolitical figure, but it's also largely unnecessary.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,305
Hmph. Idiotic pearl-clutching from that columnist. Payette is 100% in the right.
the columnist said:
There is a difference between advocating for science and marvelling at the apparent dolts who still believe in horoscopes — or in God, for that matter. In what universe is it appropriate for Canada's Governor General to do that?
If the GG's role is to represent Canada and help with progress in Canada, I'd say it's really damn appropriate. Thanks Julie!
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,158
Hmph. Idiotic pearl-clutching from that columnist. Payatte is 100% in the right.

If the GG's role is to represent Canada and help with progress in Canada, I'd say it's really damn appropriate. Thanks Julie!

I guess the idea is that she's supposed to represent the idiots as well. lol

He will almost certainly be shuffled at the next opportunity to a quieter position. I don't see him running for office again either. I think his political career is done.
There's at least 5 MPs caught up in this, so I don't know how the Liberals sweep this under the rug. The Conservatives won't attack them on it because they have the same issues, but I hope the NDP can afford to do the op research and get some attacks going.
 

Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,728
Any doctrine that requires a political figurehead to be neutral when it comes to civilization-destroying level extinction events is bad doctrine.
 

Deleted member 12950

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,151
Canada
There's at least 5 MPs caught up in this, so I don't know how the Liberals sweep this under the rug. The Conservatives won't attack them on it because they have the same issues, but I hope to god the NDP can afford to do the op research and get some attacks going.

The Conservatives have been doing nothing but attack Morneau in question period for his ethical breech. It's been pretty much their singular focus since it came out that Morneau used the CCPC loophole to avoid having to divest or move his shares to a blind trust (though a blind trust wouldn't be effective since he'd know he'd have his Morneau-Shepell shares in there).

I don't see how Morneau can survive this - the appearance of a conflict of interest is about as bad as a conflict itself and bringing through Bill C-27 while still holding his shares is a definite conflict. But I thought Trudeau's Christmas vacation was an ethical breach as well so maybe I'm completely out to lunch and my ethics don't meet what is required of a government minister.

Any doctrine that requires a political figurehead to be neutral when it comes to civilization-destroying level extinction events is bad doctrine.
I haven't seen much, if any, criticism of the climate change part of her speech but I'm sure there are some Rebel loons out there playing that part up.
 

Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,728
The Conservatives have been doing nothing but attack Morneau in question period for his ethical breech. It's been pretty much their singular focus since it came out that Morneau used the CCPC loophole to avoid having to divest or move his shares to a blind trust (though a blind trust wouldn't be effective since he'd know he'd have his Morneau-Shepell shares in there).

I don't see how Morneau can survive this - the appearance of a conflict of interest is about as bad as a conflict itself and bringing through Bill C-27 while still holding his shares is a definite conflict. But I thought Trudeau's Christmas vacation was an ethical breach as well so maybe I'm completely out to lunch and my ethics don't meet what is required of a government minister.


I haven't seen much, if any, criticism of the climate change part of her speech but I'm sure there are some Rebel loons out there playing that part up.
Certainly hope it stays that way!
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,158
The Conservatives have been doing nothing but attack Morneau in question period for his ethical breech. It's been pretty much their singular focus since it came out that Morneau used the CCPC loophole to avoid having to divest or move his shares to a blind trust (though a blind trust wouldn't be effective since he'd know he'd have his Morneau-Shepell shares in there).

I don't see how Morneau can survive this - the appearance of a conflict of interest is about as bad as a conflict itself and bringing through Bill C-27 while still holding his shares is a definite conflict. But I thought Trudeau's Christmas vacation was an ethical breach as well so maybe I'm completely out to lunch and my ethics don't meet what is required of a government minister.
I don't think the Conservatives really want someone to audit their past behaviour in any meaningful way, because those skeletons are sure to be as damaging as the ones impacting the Liberals now. It's fine to attack Morneau and they probably want to keep it down to him because he's the most prominent figure in all of this.

If both parties really turn to attacking the ethics commissioner and try to fire her for incompetence instead, then we're definitely going into the deep end of the crazy pool.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,158
Next thing you know the GG will be telling us we can't circumcise our daughters and insisting that the Earth is round!
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/scheer-trudeau-payette-divine-intervention-1.4385895
"It is extremely disappointing that the prime minister will not support Indigenous peoples, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Christians and other faith groups who believe there is truth in their religion," Scheer said in a statement posted to Facebook.
CPC is ready to go. lol
 

Mr.Mike

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,677
Is the Governor-General supposed to be apolitical or non-partisan? Obviously the office is inextricably political, and the only people really trying to make out the comments as being partisan are the CPC.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,158
Is the Governor-General supposed to be apolitical or non-partisan? Obviously the office is inextricably political, and the only people really trying to make out the comments as being partisan are the CPC.
Theoretically, yes, since policy is supposed to be in the domain of the elected politicians. It's why we can pretend to still have a Queen even though she technically has no power.
 

Deleted member 12950

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,151
Canada
Is the Governor-General supposed to be apolitical or non-partisan? Obviously the office is inextricably political, and the only people really trying to make out the comments as being partisan are the CPC.

Apolitical, no. Governor Generals in the past have spoken about refugees, the seal hunt, the need for reconciliation with First Nations in the past. More than one has wrongly said they are Canada's Head of State in public.

Non-partisan? Absolutely. I don't think the problem with Payette's speech is the content itself - maybe the faith thing is too controversial but Governor Generals have openly spoken about their faith recently too so no big deal in my books. The ministers openly praising the speech and the opposition using it to bludgeon the government are the problem. They're the ones making it partisan and that's not healthy for our institutions.

The Viceregal with its reserve powers are like a neutral release valve on our politics. I can't imagine a partisan one having to act in a situation like BC's post-election maneuvering would lead to anything good.
 
OP
OP
Caz

Caz

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,055
Canada
Is the Governor-General supposed to be apolitical or non-partisan? Obviously the office is inextricably political, and the only people really trying to make out the comments as being partisan are the CPC.

Her words are no less partisan than, say, McLachlin calling residential schools genocide, which is to say it's simple fact that somehow became the latest target in the Reform Party 2.0's crosshair, as if they give a damn about indigenous people when Harper changed the conditions for Status-Indian/Metis so the government would pay out less in benefits over time (the exact bill eludes me but i'm willing to bet good money Scheer voted in favor of it).
 

Deleted member 12950

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,151
Canada
I know we're small potatoes but Manitoba's early carbon framework looks shockingly okay considering the government's mediocre and Pallister's a terrible premier. It is a bit short on the details so far.

$25/tonne by 2022 which is below the federal government's floor but in light of Ontario and Quebec's price is projected to be $22/tonne in 2022 that seems pretty reasonable. Ontario and Quebec with their cap-and-trade ties to California's credit-rich market has always been the soft underbelly of the federal price floor even though Brad Wall and Pallister's whining has gotten the most attention.

Seems like the primary use of the revenue will be an Alberta-style low/middle-income rebate which is good policy. Exempting subsidized farm fuels from it is of course not good policy but dumb governments are going to be dumb.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
Environment Minister Catherine McKenna confronted a reporter for The Rebel on Friday, demanding he make a commitment that the far-right website stop calling her "climate Barbie."

 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,158
Yeah saw that yesterday. Can't the government just not accredit them for anything?
Also why is Rebel Media still a thing. lol
 
Oct 25, 2017
319
Ottawa, Canada
Municipal elections in Quebec this weekend, I haven't landed on a candidate yet, leaning towards Project MTL but their platform seems like a lot of stuff that isn't ever happening.

I was shocked to learn yesterday that Quebec has elections on a Sunday. Does anyone know how that came to be? I'm so used to weekday elections at all levels of government in Ontario.

Man the concern trolling is through the roof.

She's a former National Post columnist, and prone to knee-jerk conservatism. If she didn't concern troll, she'd have nothing to say.

Yeah saw that yesterday. Can't the government just not accredit them for anything?
Also why is Rebel Media still a thing. lol

US conservatives love funding conservatives in other parts of the world, and for whatever reason Canada's right is always ready to open their wallet to support their parties/media, no matter how insane/crazy/terrible they may be or how much they waste the money. A few years ago the CPC revealed they blew at least $7 million (and possibly up to $9 million) on a voter ID system that got scrapped. Their donors responded by...continuing to give them a crapload of money. So if they're willing to forgive that, I have no problem that some Canadian Conservatives with deep pockets and no donation limits are willing to bankroll Ezra's YouTube channel.

There's at least 5 MPs caught up in this, so I don't know how the Liberals sweep this under the rug. The Conservatives won't attack them on it because they have the same issues, but I hope the NDP can afford to do the op research and get some attacks going.

Actually, via Kady O'Malley...

DNt-uSGVQAEr-Mn.jpg

No idea why Dawson originally said up to 5 (not "at least"!) when the question originally came up, but it's still just Morneau.

Turfing a finance minister is much, much more serious than quietly shuffling out, say, the Minister of La Francophonie or Minister of Sport, and it impacts the markets and the dollar. On top of that, the budget process is always well underway, so getting rid of the Minister in the middle of that would pose challenges. I'm not sure what happens with Morneau, but there's no way he's going to be abruptly replaced any time soon.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,158
US conservatives love funding conservatives in other parts of the world, and for whatever reason Canada's right is always ready to open their wallet to support their parties/media, no matter how insane/crazy/terrible they may be or how much they waste the money. A few years ago the CPC revealed they blew at least $7 million (and possibly up to $9 million) on a voter ID system that got scrapped. Their donors responded by...continuing to give them a crapload of money. So if they're willing to forgive that, I have no problem that some Canadian Conservatives with deep pockets and no donation limits are willing to bankroll Ezra's YouTube channel.
But after the silly blow up of the channel after the nazi rally, I thought they would have went back into a hole somewhere. The fact that the alt-right hate him because he's Jewish is hilarious too, and I figured would have contributed to its downfall.

No idea why Dawson originally said up to 5 (not "at least"!) when the question originally came up, but it's still just Morneau.

Turfing a finance minister is much, much more serious than quietly shuffling out, say, the Minister of La Francophonie or Minister of Sport, and it impacts the markets and the dollar. On top of that, the budget process is always well underway, so getting rid of the Minister in the middle of that would pose challenges. I'm not sure what happens with Morneau, but there's no way he's going to be abruptly replaced any time soon.
Yeah I saw that clarification after. What a big difference. lol
I expect he'll be gone sometime next year, just in time to disappear when election season starts in earnest.
 
Oct 25, 2017
319
Ottawa, Canada
Four by-elections December 11th! Like I said in the Discord chat, pretty much all the attention will be on South Surrey-White Rock -- it's been a safe CPC region for awhile, but they only barely won in 2015, and the Liberals will be going after it pretty hard. If Scheer loses another seat (after Lac St Jean), CPCers aren't going to be happy with him.

Only Municipal Elections are carryied out on Sundays, Provincial are on Mondays.

voter turnouts are usually low low

Do you know how that came to be, though? Voting on Sundays just seems so strange, because it doesn't seem to promote turnout at all.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
Do you know how that came to be, though? Voting on Sundays just seems so strange, because it doesn't seem to promote turnout at all.

I disagree, I preffer voting on weekends. I usually vote Early on Provincial and Federal elections to enjoy week-end voting.

Municipal elections historically have lower voter turnout. They would be even lower if they were on Mondays
 
Oct 25, 2017
319
Ottawa, Canada
I disagree, I preffer voting on weekends. I usually vote Early on Provincial and Federal elections to enjoy week-end voting.

Municipal elections historically have lower voter turnout. They would be even lower if they were on Mondays

After looking around a little, I'm getting the feeling that it doesn't make much difference when municipal elections are held -- some cities have high turnout, some cities have low turnout, and it's hard to see any correlation between the day of the week and the turnout. Like, Montreal votes on a Sunday and Ottawa votes on a Monday, but both had turnout around 40%. Halifax votes on a Saturday and Edmonton votes on Monday, and they both had 30%. Quebec City, Toronto and Calgary all had nearly 60% in their last elections, but they voted on Sunday, Monday, and Monday, respectively.

So...people will vote if they want to vote, I guess, and the actual day of the week doesn't make much difference.
 

AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,011
I've been searching the archives of the Assemblée nationale sessions for the past hour maybe, trying to find the reason why municipal elections are on a Sunday. I haven't found a direct answer, but I found this, in regards to the current Loi sur les élections et les référendums dans les municipalités:

Assemblée
Fascicule n°101, 30 avril 1987, pages 6998-7010


Projet de loi 100 Adoption du principe

La Vice-Présidente: À l'article 13 du feuilleton, le ministre des Affaires municipales propose l'adoption du principe du projet de loi 100, Loi sur les élections et les référendums dans les municipalités. M. le ministre des Affaires municipales.

M. André Bourbeau

M. Bourbeau: Merci, Mme la Présidente. À l'heure où notre société a choisi d'harmoniser les relations qu'entretiennent ensemble les nombreuses institutions qui la composent, j'ai le plaisir de vous présenter le premier chapitre de ce que sera le Code des municipalités du Québec. Cet ambitieux projet qui occupe sans relâche le ministère des Affaires municipales, depuis quelques années déjà, arrive aujourd'hui à maturité. La phase I se concrétise par le projet de loi sur les élections et les référendums dans les municipalités. Il nous est présenté aujourd'hui dans sa version réimprimée. En effet, de nombreuses représentations ont été faites en commission parlementaire l'automne dernier. À la suite des suggestions du milieu, plusieurs modifications ont été apportées au projet original. Dans ces circonstances, il devenait plus simple de réimprimer en entier le projet pour le soumettre dans une version plus limpide.

Cette loi, connue comme étant le projet de loi 100, vise essentiellement à uniformiser le processus électoral pour l'ensemble des municipalités du Québec. Inspirée pour une large part des lois existantes dont la loi électorale provinciale, cette pièce fondamentale du "puzzle" législatif municipal contient, entre autres, des dispositions destinées à reproduire les traits distinctifs et originaux de la démocratie municipale.

En bref, on peut dire que le projet de loi témoigne d'un immense effort de modernisation et d'unification des institutions électorales du monde municipal québécois lequel a travaillé, de concert avec nous, afin d'en faire une loi aussi parfaite qu'il soit possible de le faire.

So from what I can gather, before the adoption of the law on June 23rd 1987, it seems that the municipalities themselves had more control over municipal elections, up to, possibly, deciding the date at which it would occur. I presume a lot of these municipal bylaws had probably been in effect for a very long time by 1987 (I'm talking pre 20th century, when cars and proper roads didn't exist). If that were the case, my hypothesis would be that municipalities (or most of them) in Québec decided on the election date to be a Sunday because that is the day on which Québécois would attend Church, and that would be the best moment (and place) to vote. In many villages to this day (including where my parents live), the place where you go vote is still the local church. Even for provincial elections.

Considering the above, whereby M. André Bourbeau said the law's objective was to harmonise and uniformise all the municipal electoral institutions, it would make sense for the new provincial law to keep the election date on a Sunday, to avoid disrupting a convention that had been decided generations ago by hundreds (if not thousands) of municipalities.
 
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gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
Breaking.
TVA calls it:

Valérie Plante is now Montreal's mayor. Bye bye Kid Kodak Denis Coderre, your Formula-E flop did you in, LOL.

I'm happy that my vote counted. This one is for you AuthenticM
 
Oct 25, 2017
319
Ottawa, Canada
Congrats to her -- Montreal's first woman mayor!

I've been searching the archives of the Assemblée nationale sessions for the past hour maybe, trying to find the reason why municipal elections are on a Sunday. I haven't found a direct answer, but I found this, in regards to the current Loi sur les élections et les référendums dans les municipalités:

So from what I can gather, before the adoption of the law on June 23rd 1987, it seems that the municipalities themselves had more control over municipal elections, up to, possibly, deciding the date at which it would occur. I presume a lot of these municipal bylaws had probably been in effect for a very long time by 1987 (I'm talking pre 20th century, when cars and proper roads didn't exist). If that were the case, my hypothesis would be that municipalities (or most of them) in Québec decided on the election date to be a Sunday because that is the day on which Québécois would attend Church, and that would be the best moment (and place) to vote. In many villages to this day (including where my parents live), the place where you go vote is still the local church. Even for provincial elections.

Considering the above, whereby M. André Bourbeau said the law's objective was to harmonise and uniformise all the municipal electoral institutions, it would make sense for the new provincial law to keep the election date on a Sunday, to avoid disrupting a convention that had been decided generations ago by hundreds (if not thousands) of municipalities.

Interesting -- it sounds plausible.

Now I'm just left wondering how Nova Scotia came to have Saturday elections...
 
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