Now this kind of shit we can use. Convince Leavers Brexit would make us a mini USA (which is maybe likely tbh) and suddenly Brexit ain't so peachy.
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BREXIT |OT| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Thread starter theaface
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Now this kind of shit we can use. Convince Leavers Brexit would make us a mini USA (which is maybe likely tbh) and suddenly Brexit ain't so peachy.
I don't understand the vitriol that brexiters have for Scotland considering the idea of a referendum to undo the harm brexit will do to that country. They voted to remain. Their vote effectively didn't count. They want to be part of Europe.
The hypocrisy in being angry at a country voting to leave a geopolitical institution is pretty weird.
The hypocrisy in being angry at a country voting to leave a geopolitical institution is pretty weird.
We've seen the mental gymnastics people have gone through to justify their vote. They'll welcome it with open arms if they think it will upset the 48%.
Get ready for Cadbury creme eggs filled with nothing but the purest form of high-fructose corn syrup.
But what happened with the Empire?
That is more or less how they thought they could act (again) after leaving the EU. There is a reason why the big economic blocks don't have trade deals with eachother - it's pure power play. And the USA has like eight times the economic power as the UK.
That is more or less how they thought they could act (again) after leaving the EU. There is a reason why the big economic blocks don't have trade deals with eachother - it's pure power play. And the USA has like eight times the economic power as the UK.
"they want to help us out, but"
Yeah, prepare for a good rogering from Uncle Sam.
Anyone could have told them this, with their current administration especially this is the worst time for us to be forced to cosy up to the US.
It is fairly normal for the US, a bit like how they helped us out after WW2, they don't fuck around when money is on the table.
There are no pals when it comes to international trade. Even if Trump said give the UK a good deal, it would need to be ratified by Congress where the individual state politics come into play.
The US doesn't do a lot of trade deals because it's seen as far too aggressive, and it's previous unilateral deals (Chile, Australia etc) have been seen as far too one sided. I'll let Professor Summers from Harvard spell it out
The big thing about a US trade deal is how useless it'd be for the UK, a lot of the services the UK want to sell are set at the state level. Trade in goods between the UK and US is already pretty liberal (average tariff is about 2.5%)
But, but...Wilbur Ross said everyone is taking advantage of the US, they're the only ones that practice free-trade.
Also trade deals take a long time to negotiate. Presumably this shit deal would only come into effect in the next US administration.
Mandelson said something similar on Marr's show yesterday, while IDS spewed his usual stream of bullshit about all the hot chicks queuing up to bang us as soon as the divorce is settled. Mandelson might be a shady weasel, but he does actually know a bit about these things.
The US already has access to most of our markets. The main area they don't have is agriculture/food, and they have a massive, highly productive and subsidised industry that are desperate to offload their surplus production.
(I'd add that the NHS is another area the US are currently locked out of, while having a very large medical services industry that wants new markets to sell to).
The US is also relatively open for selling regular goods. What UK industries want is access to US public procurement budgets - but there's no way in hell that the US will give this up, especially at state level. Even without Trump, US public procurement is strongly "America First", and even "[$state/$city] First"
We don't want US food goods because of the hormones, GMOs and whatnot (and becuase it would destroy our own farming industry, which can't compete with subsidised US mega-farms working to much less stringent hygiene and environmental regulations)
We also don't want US companies messing with the NHS.
The UK (at least everyone that isn't Jeremy Hunt, IDS, BoJo and Fox) won't want to accept these US requests just so that the likes of Capita get a shot at providing public services in some American city.
And the US (unless they are farmers) won't want that either.
The problem is Brexiters want to sell us out to the US and others to enrich themselves. They can talk all they want about trade deals but that's their plan, get rich, retire onto some board, tax free and good night. Clean up is for everyone else. Don't people realise this, you can almost see them drooling at the prospect.
correct, what currently happens is nothing short of treason against their own country and people.
Not sure I can take Brexitcast anyomore. They are incredibly uncritical and hardly challenge the nonsense coming out of brexiters mouths.
This is true. But don't discount one large part of it - they are thick as shit.
Hearing some educated guesses from old friends in serious journalism about the chances of the EU being interested in not stopping a hard and harsh Brexit (if not quietly pursuing an strategically punitive one) as a cautionary tale for other countries if M5S's gains in Italy turn into actual governing power. It's an ugly conversation topic, but one that may make sense looking at the current trends across Europe.
Edit: On that special relationship
UK-US Open Skies talks hit Brexit turbulence
Edit: On that special relationship
UK-US Open Skies talks hit Brexit turbulence
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It's interesting because both the FN in France and the M5S (if I understand correctly) seem to have dropped leaving the Euro.
They still have anti-EU programs, but it seems these people are OK to tank their countries, as long as their bank accounts are still in a tradable currency...
Though really, I don't think the EU has anything to do to make Brexit a punitive affair. The Tories are doing that pretty convincingly, and without external help.
They still have anti-EU programs, but it seems these people are OK to tank their countries, as long as their bank accounts are still in a tradable currency...
Though really, I don't think the EU has anything to do to make Brexit a punitive affair. The Tories are doing that pretty convincingly, and without external help.
Are they fed up now. Not surprised.
I still think revoking article 50 is on the cards but they are putting the hammer down on the UK to do something, no can kicking down the road, you're in or you're out, decide now. Good quite frankly, it's a farce. Politicians, businesses, people need to make their voice heard, no dilly dallying, what side are your on. You want hard Brexit or No Brexit.
I still think revoking article 50 is on the cards but they are putting the hammer down on the UK to do something, no can kicking down the road, you're in or you're out, decide now. Good quite frankly, it's a farce. Politicians, businesses, people need to make their voice heard, no dilly dallying, what side are your on. You want hard Brexit or No Brexit.
Saying the UK can't unilaterally withdraw the decision to Leave is on very shaky legal ground given the wording of Article 50.
I still think this is wishful thinking. And I think ECJ would decide against it if UK will try to do it unilaterally. You might go back on the decision but you can't recall a notification. Or the article talks about a clear deadline calculated from that notification. UK will be out of the treaties in March 2019 unless there's an agreement.
Imagine the quagmire created if we withdraw article 50, until a legal decision we would be hanging around voting etc, creating issues that we could walk away from if kicked out.
If it isn't a quick decision in the courts I can't see the other nations wanting to drag that out.
If it isn't a quick decision in the courts I can't see the other nations wanting to drag that out.
OP
OP
The passage you cited talks of extension of the notice period and nothing of withdrawing it altogether. Article 50 is the signaling of the intent to leave so it stands to reason that a member state should be permitted to change its mind before they've left (barring doing a Hokey Cokey piss take).
The EU has already invested a lot of time and money to prepare post Brexit, hiring people, making risk assessments, everything the UK hasn't started doing. And that's not counting the time wasted on this that could have been used on something more productive.
If article 50 were revoked, I could see the UK having to pay for all these useless expenses. Imagine how the press would take it.
If article 50 were revoked, I could see the UK having to pay for all these useless expenses. Imagine how the press would take it.
That quote is directly from the article 50.
http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/th.../title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html
The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question
Treaties
Treaty of Nice
Treaty of Amsterdam
Treaty of Maastricht
Single European Act
In the context of that quote, I'm assuming he's saying we cannot unilaterally withdraw our decision to leave during the transition period, which I would agree with. Once the article 50 period is over, we're out, and if we wanted to come back in there would be some serious political wrangling to do.
But until we're out, we're in. There is no mechanism of expulsion for an EU Member State, so until we cease to be an EU Member State the matter of our membership is entirely at our discretion. Unless the EU wanted to go all Vienna on us... and nobody wants that.
Aren't we technically already in the transition period? (March 2017- March 2019 unless an extension it's agreed)
No. The transition period begins 2 years from when Article 50 was triggered. Until then we're still a full EU member, not in any kind of transition.
Only if there is an agreement about the transition period.
I only saw the headline while my flight neighbour was watching TV. Something new about May insisting there would be no hard border in Ireland‽ what's that all about, back in the realm of cakes?
The realm of cakes sounds way more enjoyable than this shitshow
The realm of cakes also seems like a much more likely reality than the UKs Brexit demands being met.
I'm going to this event in the coming weeks, any questions I could ask? I doubt Jane has any useful information, but you never know.
I'm hoping for Ferrero Rocher at the very least.
An unhard border like the US/Canada one is an option, minus all the things that they have on the US/Canada border.
I'm not sure what May was getting at with that option.
They make delicious glutinous gluten-free cake too you know. ;)
The economist did a pretty good write-up on the best sort of border we could hope for in Ireland. Here's a short version, it's still pretty much a hard border.
There was a fairly apt quote in there about Norwegian borders / customs officers laughing at us over the concept of an open border.
There was a fairly apt quote in there about Norwegian borders / customs officers laughing at us over the concept of an open border.
But they have more to lose than we do! We are the mighty British Empire!
*buries head in the sand and crashes country*
It is amazing that they still have to keep saying this after a whole year.
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