Happen to have the vertical res handy? I forget what they put it at, but if I remember correctly they were using interpolation on both the horizontal and vertical, which is totally fine.SmiteOfHand Is MLIG's recommendation of 1365 width for 1080p incorrect?
Great OT. Unfortunately, mine died over the weekend. I opened it for the first time, updated the firmware successfully, put in Kirby Super Star and during the intro sequence it just powered off. I could not get it to power back on. Tried different outlets, cables, etc. Their support is pretty cool, though. They're going to repair it for free. They offered to send me a replacement PCB but I'd rather have them replace it.
Happen to have the vertical res handy? I forget what they put it at, but if I remember correctly they were using interpolation on both the horizontal and vertical, which is totally fine.
I prefer to keep one scaled on int to maintain some amount of sharpness, but if the math works out then I'm sure the aspect ratio is within a reasonable margin of error.
Yeah, they weren't using 5x on the vertical. I think they were using 4.5x or something similar.Happen to have the vertical res handy? I forget what they put it at, but if I remember correctly they were using interpolation on both the horizontal and vertical, which is totally fine.
I prefer to keep one scaled on int to maintain some amount of sharpness, but if the math works out then I'm sure the aspect ratio is within a reasonable margin of error.
Scanlines will look messed up on anything other than 3x/4x/5x on the vertical.1149, it does look ok, but so does yours, except scanlines are messed up at 1149.
hm, my quick, and admittedly could be wrong, calculation says they should go for 1400x1149, so seems like it might be slightly squished. When I have a chance I'll load up linearity and take a better look if it looks slightly off at their recommend.
Though keep in mind there is no perfect here on a square pixel display. There is always going to be some compromise.
Because if you're not using an integer scale you'll get shimmering.From the first post
why is it important to have Disable H interpolation OFF?
Anyone here use the Hyperkin mouse? Been thinking about picking up Mario Paint and Picross, but I'm kinda wondering it'd be worth it (seeing some reviews say the Hyperkin connectors are way too tight and could damage the system).
It was just one Amazon review I saw, scanning over it pretty quick. I guess it pops in and out of the NT easy enough? Also seen some others say it kinda moves too fast? Any impressions on that?Oh really? I hadn't heard that about the connectors. I use the Hyperkin mouse and it has worked great for me.
It was just one Amazon review I saw, scanning over it pretty quick. I guess it pops in and out of the NT easy enough? Also seen some others say it kinda moves too fast? Any impressions on that?
If it's OK I might just go ahead and pick one up. Honestly more worried to roll the dice on 20+ year old mechanical mice for the same price.
Because if you're not using an integer scale you'll get shimmering.
It's not your fault kevtris gave the option a stupid name. I sane person would've called it H Interpolation: ON/OFF.
1365 x 1149 1400 x 1149
H: 15.0 mm H: 15.4 mm
V: 15.7 mm V: 15.7 mm
It was just one Amazon review I saw, scanning over it pretty quick. I guess it pops in and out of the NT easy enough? Also seen some others say it kinda moves too fast? Any impressions on that?
If it's OK I might just go ahead and pick one up. Honestly more worried to roll the dice on 20+ year old mechanical mice for the same price.
If you're worried then you could try plugging it into an extension cable :)
It's not your fault kevtris gave the option a stupid name. I sane person would've called it H Interpolation: ON/OFF.
Yeah, just checked and 1365x1149 produces slightly more oblong circles in Linearity. Nearly a full mm difference on the axis so decently significant. 1400x1149 produces closer to equal diameter in both H and V.
Code:1365 x 1149 1400 x 1149 H: 15.0 mm H: 15.4 mm V: 15.7 mm V: 15.7 mm
Keep in mind the pixels are scaled larger and interpolated and I'm just holding a ruler up to my TV so not talking exactly scientific here, but even just looking at it visually I can pick up they are slightly narrower at 1365x1149.
Also if you were to stretch beyond 1400 to make them actual perfectly round circles, games that did not adjust for the 4:3 stretch will look quite fat, and there are a lot of them. imo you are better off going int scaling on the horizontal at that point as things are going to look stretched regardless. As I said, this stuff is a compromise. I'll try and cover and explain as many scenarios as I can in my write up so people can make an informed decision to their preferences.
And FWIW I'd bet if you sat most people down and did the pepsi challenge between 1365 and 1400 most would not be able to tell any difference.
edit: oh, and also worth mentioning. I don't have a flashcart so I can't confirm, but if you pull up Linearity on a large CRT and measure I'd bet they are not exactly perfect circles there either. It is just the nature of the fidelity of working with low res pixels. There is going to be a mm or two of variance one direction or the other. Picking the right balance between over or under shooting the underlying math is one of the big elements behind pixel art, but that is a different matter entirely.
Here just stare at the imagined continuous source signal, compared to the pixel make up until it all makes sense. It is the best I can do to explain any of this.
Nice. Sitting pretty envious over here right now. Need to seriously sit down and get a stick together.
Think I'm going to need a little help from some PAL friends. In continuation from here: https://www.resetera.com/posts/5387167/
I've been trying to experiment with PAL resolution and... everything I've tried seems to stick to 240p, and often only 224 of the lines much like NTSC as you can see in the screenshot below. That is cropped and reduced down to 256x240. You can see the black borders across the top/bottom. Unless I'm being completely oblivious about something, I admit I have basically never played anything PAL in my life so very possible I'm just being a doof here.
Unfortunately Mario Kart uses an expansion chip and as you would suspect I do not have a PAL Mario Kart cartridge so I have no way to test it specifically. Anyone know any other PAL games that would be good for testing? Also, anyone else with a PAL Mario Kart mind confirming they are seeing the same behavior ktroopa saw in the previous thread? Any help at all would be appreciated.
Did a side-by-side in Higan as well.
Unless I'm being completely oblivious about something, I admit I have basically never played anything PAL in my life so very possible I'm just being a doof here.
Oh, that's a fun thing to wrap your head around. Although I'm from PAL territory I'm not sure if I got it right, but I'll try.Most of the time we'd just have black borders which should explain the same sizes, should it not?
Most of the time we'd just have black borders which should explain the same sizes, should it not?
Thanks for the explanation. Came to the same conclusion reading up. Now I am trying to find if there were any games released that used the extra lines from the 288p signal. So far it has been a bust. I suspect if the game does the Super Nt would display all 288 lines, but hard to know without a confirmed example.Oh, that's a fun thing to wrap your head around. Although I'm from PAL territory I'm not sure if I got it right, but I'll try.
Yeah, I should add that we had borders and a squashed image - moving over to an NTSC console was crazy because finally everything looked correct, the additional speed was just icing on that particular cake :)
Emulation: Absolutely!I could only imagine what a godsend import shops and emulation had to be in PAL regions.
Emulation: Absolutely!
Import shops: To a far lesser extent since you still needed a modded SNES and a TV capable of switching to 60 Hz.
I'm talking about pre- internet times of course. After that: oh how wonderful life can be. ;)
May depend on the region, I guess? I know France has a huge arcade import scene, and I'd imagine it extends into consoles and such.So I guess things I've heard/read about retro gaming across the pond which painted a picture of there being kind of a huge importing scene
Only my experiences that may not be representative.So I guess things I've heard/read about retro gaming across the pond which painted a picture of there being kind of a huge importing scene. I mean, the man behind "Super Famicom: The Box Art Collection" is a dude by the name of Stuart Brett(?) from the UK who grew up importing Super Famicom games.
I guess something that's at least slightly more related to what SmiteOfHand is discussing is does anyone know of a games list that lists all of the PAL SNES games that don't play correctly when they're sped up to normal speed and does anyone know of a list of PAL SNES games that were made to play at normal speed (and thus doesn't need to be sped up)?
May depend on the region, I guess? I know France has a huge arcade import scene, and I'd imagine it extends into consoles and such.
I still can't find a definitive list but at least a discussion here that seems to be a bit more informed although it's fairly outdated. It makes things even more complicated:
'Most PAL optimized games back then were speed only. Most of them kept the boarders.'
'[...]they were 'optimized' (not really the correct word - maybe 'slightly improved' is better...) by maybe a speed boost and slightly narrower borders than might have normally been the case. Remember that some NTSC games had borders (SFII, Final Fight, Stunt Race FX etc) already and when the Pal versions of those were released in 'Letterbox-o-vision' it really showed how badly the Pal gamer was treated...'
The game will run at 60hz rather than 50hz meaning the interrupt will occur 10 times more than usual. For some games this will have minimal to no impact and everything will be fine. Others can have problems. It is case by case and to my knowledge nobody has made a serious effort to document the results anywhere (if anyone knows anything like this by all means send it my way).
Worst case scenario you bump down to 50hz and deal with it, or use one of the romhacks that fixes issues encountered (these are also per game)
Interesting. I did a quick google search and the only thing I've found so far that was interesting was this 2009 forum thread on the matter:
https://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?/topic/216362-pal-optimised-snes-games/
Here's the breakdown of one person's list of PAL games that didn't bug out when played at 60hz:
- Addams Family - "Forced into 60hz there are no problems"
- Buster Busts Loose - "When forced into 60Hz there is a tiny glitch on the spinning wheel sub-game selector, but that's it"
- Sparkster - Fine in 60hz
- Mystical Ninja - Fine in 60hz
- Street Fighter 2 Turbo - Fine in 60hz
Apparently the all games in the PAL version of Super Mario AllStars With Super Mario World "glitch to buggery" in 60hz. SNES games that ARE in fact PAL optimized:
- Donkey Kong Country 2,3 and apparently most Rareware games in general are PAL optimized.
- Super Aleste
- Addams Family
- Pugsley's Scavenger Hunt
"Although all run fine in 60hz mode, they're so fast as to be unplayable. In Super Aleste enemies rocket around the screen at stupidly high speeds, whilst in Addams and Pugsley's it's like the characters are permanently set to the run position."
While it's hard to say how well any of these games were tested I thought the information was interesting. Either way, it's the closest thing to a list on this stuff that I've been able to find.
...
ktroopa I think it might be a good idea to return to your TV settings because as far as I can tell the PAL version of Mario Kart should display letterboxed. I don't believe it uses the extra lines but I could be mistaken. Can you confirm both of these settings are set and then load up Mario Kart and see if the UI is still cropped at max 1200 vertical res?
Format: Full
Display Area: Full Pixel
Thanks, I think I've figured it out. Not only does PAL Mario Kart draw into overscan it does it in a pretty strange way. At the title screen it utilizes all 240 lines, but in game uses letterboxing, HOWEVER.. it starts near the top of the frame in the overscan area and leaves a large space at the bottom. Sometimes it leaves the bottom black and sometimes has random garbage in there, as you can see below (look closely at the bottom of the last screenshot). Never seen anything like it, but explains why the top looked crop while the bottom seemed correct.Tried it as above and still crops off the UI at the top :( stupid PAL res :p
This is a small PSA for all you new cartridge collectors out there. I know a bunch of you are ordering carts off ebay so it's important to take note:
The CR2032 batteries inside Snes cartridges are either dead, or at best, dying. Yes, they may still hold your saves now, but they're 20-25 years old, and they will die sooner rather than later. If you've just bought a game that employs a CR2032 (which is pretty much every rpg), you should replace it before you start playing. Nothing sucks worse than turning on a game to find your save has been erased.
You have two solid options as far as replacements go: install a battery holder, or buy a tabbed battery replacement. Both of these require basic soldering skills to replace. Please do not try to tape a new battery in place. You will regret it later.
I personally like the battery holder option. Think of it as future proofing. In a couple decades, all you have to do is pop the old battery out instead of going through the soldering process again.
Here's a quick video (not mine) on how to install these:
I've used the battery holders he links to and they're probably your best option, but I've also found Chinese knockoffs on ebay. I ordered some years ago and they seem to be pretty much the same thing for far less. The choice is yours.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10PCS-Plastic-Housing-CR2032-Button-Cell-Battery-Socket-Holder-Case-EP/222875616286?_trkparms=aid=555019&algo=PL.BANDIT&ao=1&asc=50686&meid=8b2ee6cf6bfb4a1e91d94078e08cff96&pid=100505&rk=1&rkt=1&&itm=222875616286&_trksid=p2045573.c100505.m3226
The last piece of the battery holder puzzle is choosing a good battery. Don't buy generic junk. Go for a good brand name: Sony, Energizer, Panasonic. They're fairly inexpensive on Amazon. Also, make sure what you order isn't fake. It happens, even on Amazon.
If you want to go with tabbed batteries, eBay is the way to go. Unfortunately, the only person I know that sold tabbed Panasonic batteries has just closed up shop.