Whitewashing mods (rant thread) [MOD EDIT: READ OP]

Deleted member 21094 · Mar 13, 2018

Jebusman said:
Racism simply requires judging someone negatively solely on the basis of race.

If you pre-emptively decide that you will "never" be attracted to someone who is black, without even accounting for the idea that not all people look the same, you are literally judging someone negatively solely on the basis of race.

You are being racist. It's not overt, it's not aggressive, but it's "racism".

I'm a bit confused actually from reading the thread now.
I personally don't think that I can "never" be attracted to someone who is of a certain race as I have found physical attraction to women in all the different race of people I've came across.
However I feel that I seem to have a higher chance of getting attracted to a particular races. Does this make me racist? asking genuinely here.

Jebusman · Mar 13, 2018

Bhonar said:
Ok thank you for being one of the few level-headed posters in this thread, I respect that.

People in this thread have made the argument that it's okay "not to be attracted to black people".

Not "I have a preference for this race over this one", a simple "No blacks".

You step in with your strawman

Not every single person on earth should be obligated to be physically attracted to every single race equally.

As if anyone was ever making that argument in response.

What else are people going to respond with? I've looked through your posts. At no point do you ever talk about "preferences" until your giant post trying to walk things back. It's straight to attacking/dismissing.

Trekkie · Mar 13, 2018

I thought this was about ResetEra mods and was ready to say R.I.P to your account in advance

Cerbero · Mar 13, 2018

Queen Kong said:
I don't see why you would interject the conversation just to say you're not attracted to black women.

Are you trying to justify this mod in the game? In which case, that is not okay.

nah, i really don't.
Also i should have said "less attracted to" because there are in fact black women that i do find attractive.

molnizzle · Mar 13, 2018

aSqueakyLime said:
I'm sorry but this is just incorrect. I'm not defending anyone in this thread but people definitely do have natural reactions to physical appearances.

I mean, at it's core, this is the age old "nature vs. nurture" debate.

Regardless of what you believe, the data does prove that "nurture" has a fairly huge impact on how we view the world around us. How much of an impact is the debate, but the impact itself exists. With that in mind, we must remember that beauty standards change drastically depending on what part of the world you're in, or which time period you're in. Which proves that... at least on some level, these standards of beauty are arbitrary, with less basis in biology than we might first assume. Those standards didn't morph because human sexuality changed at a biological level. It's almost entirely cultural.

Fairy Godmother · Mar 13, 2018

Cerbero said:
nah, i really don't.
Also i should have said "less attracted to" because there are in fact black women that i do find attractive.

Thanks for the clarification.

turbobutts · Mar 13, 2018

Crossing Eden said:
Why is the onus on PoC to be respectful to blatant racism?

to clarify, i don't care about these mods, i was mainly referring to the first post on this page and that conversation

i don't think being attracted to some races over others is blatantly racist. its arguable. i don't know if most people outside of this forum would agree. but its certainly not blatant. so going 0 to 100 "you're racist" doesn't help anything, doesn't inspire introspection. most of the time i see it just cause people to double down.

that's just how i see it, i dunno

TLZ · Mar 13, 2018

Crossing Eden said:
What's the problem with calling out racism?

But where is it?

Heartskips said:
Maybe read the descriptions or look at the context. They're modding out the only PoC people in the game and even talk about Aryan looks.

And no, obviously not, because we have historical and social context to understand this. Do you realize almost every hero in gaming is white? There's a pretty clear difference. This thread is more about looking at this and realizing the blatant racism in gaming communities, not trying to control what people mod for themselves.

I read all OP and don't see any links or proof of that. I just commented on everything that's in OP. Based on that I don't see any racism. It's a just MOD.

Do you have a link?

eKongDiddy · Mar 13, 2018

turbobutts said:
maybe the best way to have someone understand your view isn't to "point blank" call them racist

If people can e point blank racist, then I think I can point blankly tell them how I feel.

Weltall Zero said:
Sexual attraction has nothing to do with racism

What you're sexually attracted to isn't solid. It's malleabke and can change depending on your environment, upbringing, and all kinds of factors. Same with preferences. Those can change constantly and aren't permanent. Views of seeing darker skin as uglier isn't natural.

Jebusman · Mar 13, 2018

HunterXZelos said:
I'm a bit confused actually from reading the thread now.
I personally don't think that I can "never" be attracted to someone who is of a certain race as I have found physical attraction to women in all the different race of people I've came across.
However I feel that I seem to have a higher chance of getting attracted to a particular races. Does this make me racist? asking genuinely here.

Quick quiz:

1. Would I ever date someone of *insert race here*

If the answer is yes, in that instance you are not being racist.

You could still be a racist, for many other reasons. But not for that one.

Deleted member 15326 · Mar 13, 2018

Anyone who says they find an entire race unattractive is full of shit. Even George Washington and Thomas Jefferson fucked slaves. The southern regions are more honest than the northern regions.

Weltall Zero · Mar 13, 2018

I think people are confusing a lot of things here:
1) Not being attracted to people with or without any specific features -> perfectly OK.
2) Sharing that you're not attracted to people with or without any specific features -> you might want to keep it to yourself.
3) Actively whitewashing the race of a character in a game -> yup, you're fucking racist.

i don't know what points 1 and 2 have to do with point 3. Where does the "every character in the game should be sexually attractive to me" leap of logic come from? Do these modders also change the genders and ages of all characters to fit their preferences? For that matter, the fact that they also whitewash males' races should be a strong hint that "sexual attraction" is entirely a red herring here.

Steven Universe said:
What you're sexually attracted to isn't solid. It's malleabke and can change depending on your environment, upbringing, and all kinds of factors. Same with preferences. Those can change constantly and aren't permanent. Views of seeing darker skin as uglier isn't natural.

Yeah, that's the same arguments (and even wording, "natural") people that buy into "curing gays" use. Sorry, I'm not buying it. Hell, even if it was true, neither you nor anyone else has any fucking business telling people what they should be attracted to. Period. End of story.

Again, that's a red herring anyway. This has nothing to do with attraction.

Deleted member 2793 · Mar 13, 2018

TLZ said:
But where is it?

I read all OP and don't see any links or proof of that. I just commented on everything that's in OP. Based on that I don't see any racism. It's a just MOD.

Do you have a link?

Read the last pages.

"Basically, this is a complete revamp of Isabela. She is by far my favorite companion in DA2, but I couldn't stand her overly dark… everything! (just not my type). So, I put my PS skills and patience to the test and started makin her a whole new kind of beautiful! The work was worth it cause here she is, in all her fair skinned, blonde haired and blue eyed glory."

Anyway, thing is: people can do whatever they want with their mods, but it's kinda telling when they don't change anything in a game besides removing non-white characters.

Asriel · Mar 13, 2018

chronic_archaic said:
I mean...

this is shitty but, well, it's an open platform - there's not much you can really say against that.

Well, the point is that it's shitty.

rodrigolfp · Mar 13, 2018

Who should I choose to not be a racist?

Bhonar · Mar 13, 2018

Jebusman said:
People in this thread have made the argument that it's okay "not to be attracted to black people".

Not "I have a preference for this race over this one", a simple "No blacks".

You step in with your strawman

As if anyone was ever making that argument in response.

What else are people going to respond with? I've looked through your posts. At no point do you ever talk about "preferences" until your giant post trying to walk things back. It's straight to attacking/dismissing.

Apparently you didn't look very hard at all, because in the VERY SAME post that you partially quoted, this is what I said in full:

---
"And no, there is absolutely nothing wrong or "racist" about someone who prefers the physical looks of specific races for their own personal love life.

Anyone who claims that's racist is completely full of bullshit.

Not every single person on earth should be obligated to be physically attracted to every single race equally. Give me a fucking break."
---

Do you see the word "prefers" in the first sentence?

And I never said "No blacks." I don't recall anyone else saying that either (although maybe another poster did and it's possible I missed it).

GamerEra · Mar 13, 2018

Jebusman said:
Racism simply requires judging someone negatively solely on the basis of race.

If you pre-emptively decide that you will "never" be attracted to someone who is black, without even accounting for the idea that not all people look the same, you are literally judging someone negatively solely on the basis of race.

You are being racist. It's not overt, it's not aggressive, but it's "racism".

Your logic is bad. Attraction is separate from racism.

Wispmetas · Mar 13, 2018

Hmmm it's a mod made by one person to satisfy his preferences? Why is this a big deal? It's not the devs making an option to change a character race in the game...
I mean the guy even says it was his favorite companion despite her skin color at first, but went the extra mile to make the character meet his preferences.

TLZ · Mar 13, 2018

Weltall Zero said:
Of course not, because blackwashing and white erasure aren't a thing. Don't use disingenuous false equivalences.

Don't put words I never used. And there's many more than just black and white. My point is, based on OP, there isn't any proof provided to show racism. All I see is a MOD. They might be overreacting. And to elaborate on my question further since you've taken it out of context, if isabela was Mediterranean, Arab, Chinese, Indian etc, would OP have cared?

If OP can provide proof to this MOD being made on the premises of blatant racism, then I'd agree.

Crossing Eden · Mar 13, 2018

turbobutts said:
to clarify, i don't care about these mods, i was mainly referring to the first post on this page and that conversation

i don't think being attracted to some races over others is blatantly racist. its arguable. i don't know if most people outside of this forum would agree. but its certainly not blatant. so going 0 to 100 "you're racist" doesn't help anything, doesn't inspire introspection. most of the time i see it just cause people to double down.

that's just how i see it, i dunno

The reason that convo started is because of this:

Cerbero said:
While i do see the issue i must say that honestly i'm not attracted to black women

It's very blatantly racist. Not all black people look the same. Period.

TLZ said:
But where is it?

Where's the racism in making a dark skinned character white while deleting every post that calls out the issue but allowing posts like this?:

Thanks to this mod and others, I've completely eradicated any trace of brown skin from my dragon age two experience. Now my Kirkwall is really an aryan paradise just like it should be. Just because we desegregated in the US doesn't mean my fantasy experience needs to be desegregated. If the blacks want to be depicted they should make their own games. And to anyone calling this mod 'racist' and saying I should think of the implications of whitewashing Isabella's brown skin and getting rid of the already sparse amount of brown people in Thedas you're the real racists. If you think pointing out how this is mod is a continuation and evidence of harmful racist ideas and that anyone downloading this mod is perpetuating and buying into these ideas is also racist, then you're the real racist for bringing up race in the first place.

LightEntite · Mar 13, 2018

they're mods dude

there's literally nothing you can do about this

just let them have their fun

Terandle · Mar 13, 2018

rras1994 said:
One's a mod puting in people so they actually exist in the game, the other's a mod changing a character so those people don't exist in the game. There's a difference.

So would you care about a mod that removes all light skin tones from a game? That is also removing people so they wouldn't exist in the game. I wouldn't care about such a mod and so I also don't care about the mod in the OP.

Dmax3901 · Mar 13, 2018

BDubsLegend said:
I didn't say it was, what I was saying is that when you have been through things first hand some of the things people complain about on the internet is put into a different perspective. How does mods on someone else's computer harm me? I'd would be different if the publisher backed these mods to everyone.

Just because a mod like this isn't as bad as going on a racist tirade in the street, doesn't mean it should be ignored or given a free pass. I don't think anyone in this thread who thinks this mod is gross also thinks it's the most racist thing to ever occur ever.

Bhonar said:
Then we're just going to disagree, because I actually do think for SOME people it's biological instinct. Now for other people there are obviously KKK racists, sure.

I cannot see how you can absolutely state that you know the psycho-analysis for every human being on earth.

How is it different than the studies in the animal kingdom about certain physical traits that are instinctively more "selected" for reproduction?? Obviously other animals aren't thinking about socio-politics.

In the end, humans are still animals too.

I think what you're talking about it more of a cultural thing. Someone from your own race or culture has likely had a similar upbringing to you (whether societal or familial) and so therefore you're more likely to relate and become intimate with them. I don't think our brains are programmed to find our own race attractive to the extent that you claim otherwise interracial couples wouldn't be a thing.

Red Arremer · Mar 13, 2018

rodrigolfp said:
Who should I choose to not be a racist?

Of all the hills to die on, this is the one you pick?
Alright, let's assume you find this game character model attractive - would you not fuck one or more of these based solely on their skin colour? If your answer is Yes, then you're racist, given the fact this character's model completely identical between each version except for the skin tone.

808s & Villainy · Mar 13, 2018

GamerEra said:
Your logic is bad. Attraction is separate from racism.

Not when you're singling out an entire race of drastically different people who share nothing, but some physical characteristics, some cultural aspects (basically the same as everyone else) and a distance continent of ethnic origin

Bhonar · Mar 13, 2018

Trekkie said:
I thought this was about ResetEra mods and was ready to say R.I.P to your account in advance

That's actually what I thought too, when just seeing the thread title lol

Tensuke · Mar 13, 2018

Steven Universe said:
What you're sexually attracted to isn't solid. It's malleabke and can change depending on your environment, upbringing, and all kinds of factors. Same with preferences. Those can change constantly and aren't permanent. Views of seeing darker skin as uglier isn't natural.

So gay people can be conditioned to be straight? Thanks, I'll be sure to tell Pence that this Saturday.

Crossing Eden · Mar 13, 2018

Terandle said:
So would you care about a mod that removes all light skin tones from a game?

False equivalence and a way less common occurrence.

signal · Mar 13, 2018

What was that "hills to die on" alternative that someone, maybe Cyan, once mentioned? Something about ice cream I think.

DuperGoon · Mar 13, 2018

A lot of people here don't even know what racism is. Its a video game mod, changing a race to another race. If I made one that made all white characters black, would that be racist?

TLZ · Mar 13, 2018

Heartskips said:
Read the last pages.

Anyway, thing is: people can do whatever they want with their mods, but it's kinda telling when they don't change anything in a game besides removing non-white characters.

Thanks for that. But I don't see a link in the first place to check the source. According to the quote, it can be taken both ways. The person did state dark skin isn't their type. Which is normal. But we don't know if that's hidden racism at the same time. I hope not.

Boompoe · Mar 13, 2018

Crossing Eden said:
It's very blatantly racist. Not all black people look the same.

:

Of course not, but many black people -like people from all races- share a lot of similar traits.

It's okay to not be attracted to certain traits, but it is a little silly to blanket it as "Not attracted to black people"

'3y Kingdom · Mar 13, 2018

Have people defending this and (already misguidedly) equating this with other user-made changes checked out the description/comments for this mod?

Either you're condoning racism, or you lack basic reading comprehension. Not a good look.

TheDave545 · Mar 13, 2018

juliamcardinals said:
I think you are overreacting they are just mods chill out

So glad someone else thought this.

This has been happening for years, gender swapping, skin colour, eye colour, and clothing, who cares, somebody obviously wanted to see these characters differently just like other mods show male characters as female and vice versa.

It's mod, there is more than likely no malicious intent from this at all, they probably made this thinking of no controversial decision whatsoever but now it's been made into one.

Jeez get a grip people, are some of you new to the modding scene, this harmless stuff has been happening for years, are people now gonna kick off because dragons got modded into Thomas the tank engine.

It's a mod.

LionPride · Mar 13, 2018

How yall always make this shit bout who you wanna stick your dick in

Keep your trash ass opinion yo yourself god damn

julia crawford · Mar 13, 2018

Reminds me of the straight Dorian mod. Regrettable.

JDSN · Mar 13, 2018

They look like Sammy Soza.

Pretty gross to frame racism based on who you wanna stick your smelling unkept dick in, nobody cares.

Frozenprince · Mar 13, 2018

Crossing Eden said:
False equivalence and a way less common occurrence.

But then how will I spin my narratives and help assure myself that just flippantly dismissing questionable shit (that's been downloaded by over 100K people) is okay?

Deleted member 21094 · Mar 13, 2018

Jebusman said:
Quick quiz:

1. Would I ever date someone of *insert race here*

If the answer is yes, in that instance you are not being racist.

You could still be a racist, for many other reasons. But not for that one.

OK thanks for clearing that one up for me.

Crossing Eden · Mar 13, 2018

Boompoe said:
Of course not, but many black people -like people from all races- share a lot of similar traits.

It's okay to not be attracted to certain traits, but it is a little silly to blanket it as "Not attracted to black people"

It's a little racist.

Frozenprince said:
But then how will I spin my narratives and help assure myself that just flippantly dismissing questionable shit (that's been downloaded by over 100K people) is okay?

Wonder what the numbers are on that dark skinned Link mod. Hmmm.

Bhonar · Mar 13, 2018

molnizzle said:
I mean, at it's core, this is the age old "nature vs. nurture" debate.

Regardless of what you believe, the data does prove that "nurture" has a fairly huge impact on how we view the world around us. How much of an impact is the debate, but the impact itself exists. With that in mind, we must remember that beauty standards change drastically depending on what part of the world you're in, or which time period you're in. Which proves that... at least on some level, these standards of beauty are arbitrary, with less basis in biology than we might first assume.

Ok I can at least somewhat agree with this.

Sometimes it's nature and sometimes it's nurture. Sometimes it's a combo.

But you cannot say that nurture is fully 100% of the factor for every single human being on earth for every case.

Weltall Zero · Mar 13, 2018

TLZ said:
Don't put words I never used.

i thought you asked if people would be upset if the races were swapped and I told you why it's not the same thing.

TLZ said:
And there's many more than just black and white. My point is, based on OP, there isn't any proof provided to show racism. All I see is a MOD. They might be overreacting. And to elaborate on my question further since you've taken it out of context, if isabela was Mediterranean, Arab, Chinese, Indian etc, would OP have cared?

If she was changed from non-white to white? Of course it would be racist too. What are you exactly trying to imply here?

TLZ said:
If OP can provide proof to this MOD being made on the premises of blatant racism, then I'd agree.

Because it's literal, textbook whitewashing? Are you playing dumb, or... ?

Cerbero · Mar 13, 2018

Crossing Eden said:
The reason that convo started is because of this:

It's very blatantly racist. Not all black people look the same. Period.

Where's the racism in making a dark skinned character white while deleting every post that calls out the issue but allowing posts like this?:

i never said that, also post #354

TLZ · Mar 13, 2018

Crossing Eden said:
Where's the racism in making a dark skinned character white while deleting every post that calls out the issue but allowing posts like this?:

Ugh.

Why is this post or link not in OP? I wouldn't have argued in the first place. Can you give me the link to that please?

Boompoe · Mar 13, 2018

Crossing Eden said:
It's a little racist.

I think it's a bit silly to blanket everyone that uses that phrase as a racist.

Deleted member 5086 · Mar 13, 2018

Thread temporarily locked while we review various reports.

Deleted member 5086 · Mar 13, 2018

Do not make make provocative drive-by or dismissive posts that completely ignore the concerns that other users have over this topic. Posts of this nature will be moderated accordingly. Thank you. The thread will be reopened momentarily.

AlexFlame116 · Mar 13, 2018

Crossing Eden said:
Where's the racism in making a dark skinned character white while deleting every post that calls out the issue but allowing posts like this?:

So not only does this idiot say that those who say he's racist are actually the real racists for bringing up race in the first place, but at the same time he's rejoicing that he finished his "Aryan paradise just like it should be" and is bemoaning about US desegregation.

Pick one dude! I can't believe that this is the main thing in that comment section of the mod back at the main site.

Stitches · Mar 13, 2018

Gidim said:
A lot of people here don't even know what racism is. Its a video game mod, changing a race to another race. If I made one that made all white characters black, would that be racist?

Of course. Racism works both ways. It's shitty behavior if done maliciously.

L Thammy · Mar 13, 2018

Honestly, I feel like the whole conversation about finding so and so race or colour attractive is a distraction These things are often explicitly tied to racism, whether it's the white girl saying "I'm sorry daddy" at the end of a Blacked video or the modder talking about fair skin and blue eyes here.

There are also some posters here who seem to have seen that it's a mod that changes someone's skin colour, then immediately stopped reading so that they can express their aggressive apathy. But the comments are there, and I hope people aren't pretending to not know what this is about after seeing them.

This is a case where the connection to racism has been made rather plainly, so what's with the tangent about attraction to other colours? Maybe there are mods where black characters are turned white in good faith, like maybe there are mods that add a wide variety of options for the sole sake of customization and shows no preference for any particular one. But that's not this mod and we can see that's not the intent. I'm the rambling type so I'm prone to tangents myself, but I feel like I'd have to bring up a hypothetical like that if I wanted to have a more general discussion about "is it innately wrong to change a character's skin colour" without distracting from this case.

Beyond that, the fact that changing female characters' skin colours instantly jumps to discussion of porn and sexual tastes is kind of questionable too. I've noticed that people have a nasty habit of immediately jumping to the idea of female characters are porn bait no matter if they're particularly sexualized or not or doing anything enticing or suggestive. Beyond the concerns I normally have with this kind of thinking, it provides a convenient ulterior motive for the modder here.

Whitewashing mods (rant thread) [MOD EDIT: READ OP]

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Backward compatible

One Winged Slayer

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Game Developer

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Took the red AND the blue pills

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Game Developer

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Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer

Spacenoid