collusion to get people to upgrade their consoles. switch 4k upgrade incoming ;)
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Television Displays and Technology Thread: The ERA of OLED is Now
- Thread starter Jeremiah
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collusion to get people to upgrade their consoles. switch 4k upgrade incoming ;)
In many areas in RE7 on PC where it's supposed to be near black you'll see a really blotchy mess. Almost like watching very low bitrate content, or Netflix on a bad connection. When moving in and out of specific areas (primarily the main room of the house that has the clock, the stairs and a few exits) you'll see shadows turn into blobs of blocky colors that are just above black. In areas that are supposed to be shadowy that are being illuminated by very bright lights (a good example would be the mines or a few areas in the house near the end), instead of seeing the light smoothly travelling through the area, you end up with what looks like a "rainbow" of off white colors, and similarly when light is shooting away into shadows, you'll see rainbows of near black.
I don't honestly know if the banding is an issue specifically with the TV, or in the way Windows wanted to handle HDR, since it was only outputting in 8-bit instead of 10 like it should have. It essentially looked like the left image (but not red and usually close to double the transitions):
Similarly, at the very beginning of the game when you're viewing Mia's message on the laptop, it has a billion banding rings across the video. I never bothered to rent it for the PS4 to check to see if it was a PC specific issue, but from asking around, those that were able to try both on a B6 were saying it looked the same in both cases.
In many areas in RE7 on PC where it's supposed to be near black you'll see a really blotchy mess. Almost like watching very low bitrate content, or Netflix on a bad connection. When moving in and out of specific areas (primarily the main room of the house that has the clock, the stairs and a few exits) you'll see shadows turn into blobs of blocky colors that are just above black. In areas that are supposed to be shadowy that are being illuminated by very bright lights (a good example would be the mines or a few areas in the house near the end), instead of seeing the light smoothly travelling through the area, you end up with what looks like a "rainbow" of off white colors, and similarly when light is shooting away into shadows, you'll see rainbows of near black.
I don't honestly know if the banding is an issue specifically with the TV, or in the way Windows wanted to handle HDR, since it was only outputting in 8-bit instead of 10 like it should have. It essentially looked like this (but not red):
Similarly, at the very beginning of the game when you're viewing Mia's message on the laptop, it has a billion banding rings across the video. I never bothered to rent it for the PS4 to check to see if it was a PC specific issue, but from asking around, those that were able to try both on a B6 were saying it looked the same in both cases.
Oh I see, thanks for explaning it to me.
I JUST got my B7 two days ago and I did feel like the Game HDR mode was too dim by default. I countered it just fine by turning on Dynamic Contrast and setting it to Medium -- I'm perfectly satisfied with the result. So to me, it's a non-problem, though it did feel a bit head-scratching to try and solve as I was worried about turning on Dynamic Contrast under pretense that it would add input lag or variable brightness -- it seems to do neither of those things that I can detect, so make sure you turn it on if the base picture feels overly dim after you switch the set over to HDR Game.
Do note, however, that these claims of dimness may be pretty subjective in my case -- I tend to favor a slightly oversaturated and vibrant image than a base one when it comes to my games media, not extremely over-the-top but I do like to crank my color saturation up a bit. For example, if "brightness" and "color" are typically recommended at a setting of 50/100, then I tend to favor settings like brightness 55 and color 60 -- not a huge jump over the base content recommendation, but just a bit more pop and flair. In my case, I cross-referenced the calibration guides from Digital Foundry (which is based on the B6, not necessarily the B7) andRtings and set mine to roughly the same as those videos suggest, but then I did Wide Color Range and Dynamic Contrast Medium to gain my preferred vibrancy and pop (and left the other settings at the understood recommended levels). I only do this for GAMES content, I tend to try and get as close as I perceive to be to film content, but I'm no calibration expert (can't be if I haven't owned a TV in so long), but again I just kinda used DF and Rtings as my guides for tuning my UHD player and nVidia Shield TV as well.
Can't speak to the jump from a plasma -- I've played on nothing but gaming-branded BenQ and Samsung PC monitors for the past decade, and this is the first TV I've owned since 2007. My last TV was a mid-range LCD Samsung and it came out early enough in the HD era that it wasn't well tuned for input lag, so it was pretty miserable to play games on, and was a big motivator for me switching to monitors, aside from being off at college back then and needing to conserve space as I was always sharing living situations with tons of roommates.
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The 75 inch is a faster panel than the 65 and thankfully I haven't noticed any blur or smearing.
I run my switch through my AVR and let the AVR upscale it :)
PQ looks better and much lower input lag.
What AVR (or really, what chipset)?
Even going back to the days of Faroudja DCDI, that stuff has always been hit or miss. Of course it's highly variable with the chipset.
I will say that the way my Switch looks on my C7, there's no scaling you could do that would make it look worse, that's for sure....
I'll have to try AVR scaling on the Switch later, since our audio component discussion, my X2300 broke, believe it or not! Now I'm rocking an X3400 :)
That perplexes me! Lol, I love how it looks, you played Gears 4 in HDR? Masterclass :)
There are. That's how rtings does it's input lag tests at 4k using the leobodnar device that only outputs at 1080p. I believe they use the HDFury Linker / integral
That type of banding is game dependant, it's not a flaw of the TV or PC. Some games have really shitty banding, like Battlefront 2 cutscenes, The Last Guardian etc.In many areas in RE7 on PC where it's supposed to be near black you'll see a really blotchy mess. Almost like watching very low bitrate content, or Netflix on a bad connection. When moving in and out of specific areas (primarily the main room of the house that has the clock, the stairs and a few exits) you'll see shadows turn into blobs of blocky colors that are just above black. In areas that are supposed to be shadowy that are being illuminated by very bright lights (a good example would be the mines or a few areas in the house near the end), instead of seeing the light smoothly travelling through the area, you end up with what looks like a "rainbow" of off white colors, and similarly when light is shooting away into shadows, you'll see rainbows of near black.
I don't honestly know if the banding is an issue specifically with the TV, or in the way Windows wanted to handle HDR, since it was only outputting in 8-bit instead of 10 like it should have. It essentially looked like the left image (but not red and usually close to double the transitions):
Similarly, at the very beginning of the game when you're viewing Mia's message on the laptop, it has a billion banding rings across the video. I never bothered to rent it for the PS4 to check to see if it was a PC specific issue, but from asking around, those that were able to try both on a B6 were saying it looked the same in both cases.
While I'm sure that some games have banding issues more than others, I know for a fact that the B6 has pretty bad banding with that game, and it is very much the TV. By default it might have significant banding and the TV is just making it more noticeable, but I also played parts of it with HDR off on the B6, my crappy Asus monitor and my plasma. The banding was significantly less on the other two screens compared to the B6 (but even worse on the B6 with HDR). The worst offenders were all near black. It wasn't just banding, it was the blotchy/macroblocking with shadows too.
As I said with my original post though, this was the only game that I've played so far that had issues like this. Currently replaying Dead Space, and I haven't noticed any banding or macroblocking, and it heavily relies on black and near black coloring.
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i just bought an LG C7 oled, The colors and the black is amazing!
But i'm really disappointed about the auto-dimming that you can't deactivate...
When some colors are on the screen, it became darker (especially white), and it's not great...
also is there an easy way to check HDR on PC? I tried with assassin's creed origin but the colors were not that great in the HDR mode... Since i don't have a Ps4 pro
Yeah i'm not that informed in TV in generals, i don't know how everything works, i just wanted a good TV with native 120HZ and i'm satisfied with that
But i'm really disappointed about the auto-dimming that you can't deactivate...
When some colors are on the screen, it became darker (especially white), and it's not great...
also is there an easy way to check HDR on PC? I tried with assassin's creed origin but the colors were not that great in the HDR mode... Since i don't have a Ps4 pro
Yeah i'm not that informed in TV in generals, i don't know how everything works, i just wanted a good TV with native 120HZ and i'm satisfied with that
Yeah I don't want to say it looks awful. But if you go out of game mode to normal HDR modes you can tell a difference.
I'd like to use the HDR Technicolor mode for games.
Auto Dimming? Did you turn off the Energy Saver Mode? It doesn't Auto Dim for me.
yeah turned everything off, it's a real thing, it's called ABL :
https://www.change.org/p/lg-electronics-lg-allow-oled-tv-owners-to-turn-off-dimming
Yupp. Wouldn't have been a big deal to me but Switch at 1080P would not be great at 40ms. There's always a caveat. I'll be keeping my 900E
I haven't even noticed. Once I turned off the energy saving mode, the TV hasn't alter settings (or I haven't notice)
Are you playing in a dim or dark room? For all of the complaints about ABL since 2016, I have yet to encounter it other than when I occasionally browse online and am sitting on a page that's mostly white without moving it. With video games and movies, it never kicks in, or if it does, it's not aggressive. I have my brightness between 49 - 52 and the backlight at 40.
maybe i'm more sensible to it, but i'll notice it as soon as there's bright color like white (who became more gray than pure white), light blue or yellow! It becomes really dark, and when i open the small TV menu, it cames back to normal (since there's other color on the screen), this exact menu
i noticed it immediatly, especially when i have a video in full screen or windowed (since in windowed there's other colors so it doesn't dim), or when the TV menu is opened while watching a video
small exemple (not the best exemple but it shows how it is)
didn't have that on my previous LCD
maybe i'm more sensible to it, but i'll notice it as soon as there's bright color like white (who became more gray than pure white), light blue or yellow! It becomes really dark, and when i open the small TV menu, it cames back to normal (since there's other color on the screen)
i noticed it immediatly, especially when i have a video in full screen or windowed (since in windowed there's other colors so it doesn't dim), or when the TV menu is opened while watching a video
small exemple (not the best exemple but it shows how it is)
didn't have that on my previous LCD
Gotcha.. I think it is to protect the screen from BURN IN images. I have read that there's a higher chance of burn in happening if you are watching constant bright scenes. I suppose hence the auto dimming feature?
yeah it's exactly that, not the biggest problem, but it's quite disappointing to not see the color really bright like on my previous TV
i made a small exemple on paint (not the best i know, lol)
when i'm on full screen it will look like the left of the image, and in windowed or with the menu it look like the right of the image :
HDR game and all other presets (aside Vivid) look exactly the same to me, only active HDR changing it's tone mapping, but even then its not a clean sweep, sometimes it looks better with active, and others Game mode. Gran Turismo on a city night track, looked markedly better using active though.
Out of curiosity can you share your settings for HDR game mode.
HDR isn't 8bit so turn on 10bit or 12bit manually from Windows. LG OLED's have pretty poor processing resulting in some banding but what you're experiencing is from wrong settings.In many areas in RE7 on PC where it's supposed to be near black you'll see a really blotchy mess. Almost like watching very low bitrate content, or Netflix on a bad connection. When moving in and out of specific areas (primarily the main room of the house that has the clock, the stairs and a few exits) you'll see shadows turn into blobs of blocky colors that are just above black. In areas that are supposed to be shadowy that are being illuminated by very bright lights (a good example would be the mines or a few areas in the house near the end), instead of seeing the light smoothly travelling through the area, you end up with what looks like a "rainbow" of off white colors, and similarly when light is shooting away into shadows, you'll see rainbows of near black.
I don't honestly know if the banding is an issue specifically with the TV, or in the way Windows wanted to handle HDR, since it was only outputting in 8-bit instead of 10 like it should have. It essentially looked like the left image (but not red and usually close to double the transitions):
Similarly, at the very beginning of the game when you're viewing Mia's message on the laptop, it has a billion banding rings across the video. I never bothered to rent it for the PS4 to check to see if it was a PC specific issue, but from asking around, those that were able to try both on a B6 were saying it looked the same in both cases.
Sony XF series are expected to launch next week here in France, I managed to grab a model at launch bargaining a 17% discount. Anything I should know about the settings? Are there recommanded ways to use/set the TV within the first few days/weeks?
EDIT : Rtings just post their review with the settings they went for :
https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x900f/settings
EDIT : Rtings just post their review with the settings they went for :
https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x900f/settings
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It was the only setting I couldn't have calibrated, due to PC HDR mode being broken.......
However, OLED light 100, contrast 100, brightness 50, sharpness 15, colour 65, and colour temp W50, gamut auto, measured very accurately according to Vincent, so I'm happy.
At current prices I have no idea why anyone would buy this instead of a X930E..
What OLED Light are you using? ABL loses its intensity around 35, never notice it.yeah it's exactly that, not the biggest problem, but it's quite disappointing to not see the color really bright like on my previous TV
i made a small exemple on paint (not the best i know, lol)
when i'm on full screen it will look like the left of the image, and in windowed or with the menu it look like the right of the image :
I'm the same way.. have had an OLED for over a year and haven't seen it. It must impact people that are trying to use it like an LCD (ie super bright settings, bright environment).
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Re: the AVR upscaling conversation - I tried that when I first got my TV, letting the Denon do the Switch upscaling instead of the TV. The AVR was worse, and I didn't feel that the lag difference was worth the tradeoff... but I don't recall the difference being something that I'd see while actually playing.
My KS9000 does the same thing. This is one of those instances where my Bravia w900a can look better, because of the possibility to clean up banding via settings.
I don't get something in general. If your video signal goes through the AVR before the TV but the later allows upscalling, you should still benefit from the TV upscal, right ?
You will upscale the video signal from the Switch (or any other lower resolution signal) once. You can do it wherever you wish, just gotta turn it off in the AVR for that source if you want the display to do it.
Depends on what you have the AVR set to do. All will pass through the original signal, but some will upscale from 720p/1080p/whatever to 4K (if this option is turned on). If the AVR upscales the signal to 4K, then the TV won't, because it doesn't need to.
This was kind of my suspicion. Solutions like Anchor Bay and Dcdi were almost have to haves years ago as we were transitioning to HD. Now, it seems like it's less and less a focus for AVRs. That's separate and distinct from even being implemented properly, which it often times is not. I've owned two separate Denons and HKs that did not have a feasible way to defeat the video processing. The HK would literally add "Vivid" type picture modes you couldn't turn off.
AVRs have more and more turned into Swiss Army knives that need to do multi room, streaming apps, room correction, video processing..... all while not drastically increasing price.
I haven't thought about Faroudja DCDi in forEVER.
I'll have to do another test, now that I'm more familiar with how the TV is "supposed" to look...but then again, I haven't been playing my Switch much at all. If I remember correctly, I think the Denon might have added some ghosting to the 4K upscale.
Somewhat related (although I should probably post this to the Audio topic): Wirecutter posted their Best Receiver article. It's fascinating to see how important room correction has gotten in this space, even at the mid-low end of things. I hadn't put much stock in the correction stuff that AVRs do, since the last time I played around with it they mostly just did speaker-level adjustment, checking for phase, and the like. It looks like *that* is where receivers have really made big strides - even the less-expensive models do reasonable calibration, and the processors involved are fast enough to run the calculations in seconds. It used to take the AVR minutes to just chew through the numbers!
Are you sure you disabled all of the power saving features? I remember there being at least a couple that needed to be turned off.
I've never noticed ABL on my C7 and I'm definitely sensitive to it as it was extremely noticeable on some Samsung phone OLED displays. Not to say it doesn't happen, but if it does it is definitely less noticeable than that image you posted. It sounds more like energy saving settings if brightness is dramatically changing back and forth as you open or close the menu, as ABL usually takes longer to kick in from my experience.
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