• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

chocolate

Member
Feb 28, 2018
3,642
Then your game won't fly and I hope to hell that you're satisfied with Japan only otaku markets, because that's all you're ever going to get. Hard stop.

Like seriously, if your goal is 20,000 units...good luck. It probably won't be worth your time and you will get no play outside of Japan.

But I don't wanna hear any complaints on their end. None. No, "Well, if you want more persona 5, you should buy the collectors edition" or "make some noise about our products if you want more RPG's in the future". If these are the gambles they're using to bet the brand on, they're fucking sunk.

And make no mistake, we will CONTINUE to criticize the fuck out of your dumb fetishy bullshit.

This comes back to voting with wallets, which seems to be the only way to combat it for now.

That or the gaming media outlets writing negative articles about the outfits to let them know it's an issue.

Actually, considering how popular and well sold P5 is, there's a chance the dancing games will sell quite well for them too.

So it's down to the media to write specific articles about it to raise more awareness of what the western audience doesn't like.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,585
You know...I just realized this but there are a lot of implicit "you probably had sex with this person" moments in Persona 5 or at the very least a lot of "you begin a romantic relationship with this person" moments...
Oh there are tons, especially if you are aggressively chasing the relationship aspect of social links.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,585
The whole point of Kamoshida's palace is he made the girls sex slaves and tortured the boys. There's no ambiguity there even if the girls liked it because it was all in his head. Meanwhile in the real world he was taking it out on real people. Again, it was a matter of power dynamics and consent. If the girls in P5 Dancing are legitimately cool with wearing that stuff, it's quite a bit different than the #metoo precursor that is Kamoshida.

If you want to argue it's out of character, well that's a different issue entirely.

I mean, based on what we know from Persona 5, do you really think any of those characters would wear any of those costumes? It's out of character, clearly, because it's placing you at the helm of their own agency. Just because an item is in the game doesn't mean that characters would suddenly be fine wearing it much in the same way that just because a situation is possible in the game doesn't mean that they'd magically agree with it. That's sort of the POINT of Persona 5 enmasse, that the cast is rebelling against situations that are being thrust upon them by unreasonable adults.

And now we have a dancing otaku game where the very nature of the extra content is being thrust into a situation by unreasonable adults.

I'm calling it now, in whatever light story mode there is, there will be multiple characters complaining about having to wear the outfit, "it's embarrassing, I can't believe this" to ADD to the dumb fetishy bullshit it already is.

Like, ultimately we're swinging back to the whole, "why did they even put this in here" question. And there's only one answer.

"You know why."
 

Twig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,486
But would you not want something more? Usually in other art forms indie productions are far more influential to the mainstream than in video games
Yeah but indie games aren't "real games" keep your sorry politics out of my real games thank you and good night!!

...

It's honestly surprising to me how often I run into people in the games industry who actually believe that first part. Not so surprising the second part... I think it has to do with the fact that people in the games industry are, well, gamers. Grew up that way. Want to make the things they played. And giant publishers take advantage of that by offering little freedom, forcing games to fit a mold.

Not every publisher acts this way, of course.

Also I do think there are notable examples of positive change throughout AAA games, even if they're often imperfect, or associated with the typical VIOLENCE SURE IS FUN gameplay and WOMEN SURE ARE SEXY aesthetics.

The pushback will lessen over time. The industry is maturing.

Heck yeah.

But it WILL take time. Puberty is slow.

Oh no.
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
Probably because these outfits are front and center in the advertising? I don't remember these extra outfits being displayed in big advertisements about the game. Or is the director finally admitting that he is Kadoshima?

That's a good argument. I don't remember seeing those and I can't
What needs to be done? How about treat the teenage girl characters with the same level of respect as the male ones, giving them a range of outfits to choose from that are attractive but aren't mostly fetish gear for Otaku? Yes, what men and women find attractive is different. That doesn't mean that there are no options for attractive, cool and sexy female costumes other than this pandering stuff.

I don't get this idea that 'that's what men like and so it has be nearly-naked teen girls in fetish gear for the optional costumes'. I'm a guy, and find all kinds of stuff sexy without my wife needing to wander around in a chainmail bikini, maid outfit or dog collar. In the range of outfits offered, Could they really find no other options for outfits for a group of attractive young female characters to wear, outside of 'maid' and 'S&M club night', that a male audience might still find attractive? It's leaning into Otaku bait, not just 'what appeals to guys'.

They will stop that when Idol and Gravure idol industry stop to do the same in Japan to teenagers and when those things are seemed as abnormal. Those things that happen in entertainment media are only a reflex of the society and values in there so those offerings are unlikely to disappear because of it. It's not really an problem of the industry, it's a society problem and how people are raised and see the world because of it. And considering that those same people are firm in their vision (be it male or female), it's unlikely that they'll be convinced otherwise. The people that thinks different and are opposing it are really something small in Japan.
 

Jotakori

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,186
The bikini armor outfit thing burns me so bad. That and the like military/dominatrix sets I think they showed a while back? I was really excited for these dancing games but the more I see the more I feel gross about them. These outfits feel super out of place for the characters and the core game's story but also like on top of that, I don't think I've seen a single outfit for any of the guys that feels sexualized? Butler outfits definitely do not count. I hate seeing female characters get needlessly sexualized but I'd honestly be willing to put up with a lot more of it if they were at least equal about it and included the dudes in sexualized outfits, too. It just feels so unfair on top of having to watch my gender basically get boiled down to sex objects. Blugh. But I guess what else is new.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
Edit: this isn't really my place to debate these things so I'm changing this message.

I do hope they handle these things more tactfully in Persona 6.

I will say for anyone who may have an interest in these games but are turned off by these outfits. If it's anything like P4D these types of costumes are likely optional and will not have to be seen in the story.
 
Last edited:

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
There are quite a few non sexualized outfits for the female characters. I understand people are upset about these outfits but it's not the only option.
There being some non-sexualised outfits doesn't change the fact that the majority of the girl's ones are, which means there's a problem. I'm not particularly 'upset' about any individual or group of outfits, it's more what the vast majority of the options for teen girl characters being insanely sexualised means when contrasted with the themes of P5. It's the developer having their cake and eating it, selling the idea of rebellion against exploitation while reinforcing the idea that having most of the options for the girls (and not the boys) being heavily sexualised is perfectly normal. Yes, you as an individual player don't have to use it, but there's a wider context here when looking at how the young cast is depicted.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
There being some non-sexualised outfits doesn't change the fact that the majority of the girl's ones are, which means there's a problem. I'm not particularly 'upset' about any individual or group of outfits, it's more what the vast majority of the options for teen girl characters being insanely sexualised means when contrasted with the themes of P5. It's the developer having their cake and eating it, selling the idea of rebellion against exploitation while reinforcing the idea that having most of the options for the girls (and not the boys) being heavily sexualised is perfectly normal. Yes, you as an individual player don't have to use it, but there's a wider context here when looking at how the young cast is depicted.

I understand. It's why I changed my message as I thought more about what I was saying.

Sorry as it's really not my place.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Let's not kid ourselves, Shining Force is dead, buried and fossilized and has been since Shining Force 3 on the Sega Saturn (that's like 3 generations ago now). I don't know how well those newer games sell or not, but they have nothing to do with Shining Force and could have just as easily been called "Mighty Force of Light" or something else, and the whales would still eat it up, and at least Shining fans wouldn't be weeping in alienation.
I take it you wouldn't recommend the upcoming Shining Resonance: Refrain then :D
 
Oct 27, 2017
996
I wouldn't really defend the outfits in NierA (they're definitely fetish-y), but on the whole I leaned toward liking them too. I guess it's just a Rule of Cool thing? I mean, the characters are wearing blindfolds too, which is technically silly but imo looks cool and also ~metaphors~. It really really helps that 2B isn't disempowered in a gross way by the narrative and you have to work a little to get the camera up in her business. So my playtime was mostly spent with her being a badass — again, without that being undercut by the game — and me thinking that if anyone can pull of thigh-high leather boots, she could. I wasn't bothered by A2 either, and she's wearing even less.

So yeah... like I said, I wouldn't defend it really. I'm sure the devs could've achieved a similar character feel with a different or toned down designs. And I don't think the narrative needed the majority of androids to be incredibly attractive women. But compared to other fanservicey designs, these bothered me much less.

It helps that 2B isn't embarrassed by her clothes (I didn't play every sidequest, so there's a possibility this is hidden in there somewhere), which I haaaaate and is in so many Japanese games. I also didn't have to participate in gross objectification to continue the game (hello, Danganronpa: Ultra Despair Girls. I'm still not over it.) or watch a scene that squicked me out and didn't mesh with the characters or tone of the game. I even found the contrast between the YoRHa agents and the rest of the androids interesting visually and found these leather-clad "people" running around the desert appropriately jarring. It really reminded me that they were unusual even within their world and inhuman in many physical ways. But again they didn't NEED to be dressed exactly as they were, and there's clear fanservice motivations in the design. I was just mostly cool with it.

Definitely makes sense, thanks for the response. So within your own particular/individual/subjective experience/encounter with the game, 2B's outfit felt like it could easily have been a conscious, confident choice on the part of the character, and given the fact that neither the camera nor other characters attempted to humiliate her for that choice within the game, 2B was in effect able to be 'sexy' (in the narrow sense of that term, but more importantly also in the full sense that includes cool/badass/empowered and so on) on her own terms, instead of being 'sexualized' on the terms of others.

With regard to the points you made that I highlighted in bold, though, it also sounds like for you, 2B being sexy in the 'narrow sense' of the word wasn't actually necessary for her to be cool/badass/empowered (sexy in the 'full sense'), though it didn't necessarily hurt (or perhaps even helped, to some extent, or in some instances?), but only as long as the aforementioned conditions (outfit was legitimately cool, camera in check, character legitimately allowed to be 'sexy' without being 'sexualized', and so on) were satisfied.

Also, sounds like you certainly wouldn't object to the removal of some/all of the more 'narrowly sexy' elements from 2B's design (and maybe even would prefer to have them removed?), and ultimately, 2B is very much a unique case for you, since fanservicey designs in general are still highly bothersome.

Hope I got most of that right! As I mentioned elsewhere (before the game was released) the design does make me a bit uncomfortable, but it's definitely interesting/reassuring to consider different perspectives.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,296
For some reason the Persona series always reminds me of that forgetful grandpa who you know is going to do something sexist even while admitting that sexism is a problem just a few minutes before. Time, unfortunately, has only further addled the franchises' already extremely selective memory.
 

RalchAC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
825
I understand. It's why I changed my message as I thought more about what I was saying.

Sorry as it's really not my place.

I personally don't have a problem with the butler vs maid outfit. I don't like the others, and there definitely is a disonance between the Kamoshida stuff and what you get in the game. But Futaba is just too creepy for me. Not only because she is 15 years old, or she has more child like proportions, but because of how her character is build. She was a shut in until not so long ago, and despite being a genious and quite mature for her age in some senses, she still has a long way to go and keeps some more childish traits. The way the rest of the party treats her in Persona 5 is a mix of a traditional friendship dynamic and how the party in P4 behaved around Nanako.

I've already said that I don't like at all the fact that the main character was able to romance her. I can write a 2000 words essay that explains why I don't find it okay. The gap in power dynamics between the main character and her is just too big for me and a lot of other people to be able to accept it, no matter how much we like the character.

TL;DR: This is just a bit less creepy for me than giving Nanako bikini armor. Because Persona 5 treats her like a child for a big part of her screentime. Even if you compare her swimsuit to the other characters, hers have this skirt that mostly covers het butt, as opposed to the rest of the cast.

Hmm. Culture differences do need to be considered here.

The culture and social behaviour in Japan is vastly different to that of western society.

Let me use an example. The atrocious harem and otome/young girl anime popularity is on the rise.

It's quite disturbing. However, it appears that the entertainment medium for anime in Japan is more focused on fetishising very young girls.

In Japan, this is what's in right now.

Try to pull that off in western society and it won't fly at all. It's a big difference.

Those game sell like 20,000 units at the end of the day, so it's just a small amount of people finding that okay. It's not culture differences, it's about cattering to a relatively small but reliable audience. Equating Japanese culture to those niche products could feel as insulting for someone that actually lives there. If you actually bother at seeing at which time most of those otaku-targeted anime air, you'd see that they're aired at late night, for example. But you miss this kind of information because you don't live there, and Crunchyroll and other (both legal and illegal) services bring every anime in the season in bulk and unfiltered.

If being on the rise is going from 20,000 to 30,000 or 40,000 units, the difference is still negible in the great scheme of things. It's like saying the West is ok with pedophilia because I can go to pornhub and look for a video where a young looking actress dresses as a teen.

For some reason the Persona series always reminds me of that forgetful grandpa who you know is going to do something sexist even while admitting that sexism is a problem just a few minutes before. Time, unfortunately, has only further addled the franchises' already extremely selective memory.

I never bought any spin-off of Persona 4, and I don't really see this changing anytime soon. I generally can stand the disonances in the game (by not using certain features and not pursuing certain characters) because I really like it most of the time, but the spin-offs just push the stuff that I don't like while leaving aside what I actually like about the series.
 

Antiwhippy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,458
For some reason the Persona series always reminds me of that forgetful grandpa who you know is going to do something sexist even while admitting that sexism is a problem just a few minutes before. Time, unfortunately, has only further addled the franchises' already extremely selective memory.

I feel like it wasn't really as bad before 4, but that's probably mostly because the series didn't try to tackle those subjects before 4.
 

Bricks

Member
Nov 6, 2017
622
Just playing Dragon's Dogma...
XIt5Oi2.jpg


ywOqvQm.jpg

YScf8lF.gif
 

Murkas

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
616
I wonder what the alt costumes in Alice: Madness Returns would've looked like under a different developer.

american_mcgee_alice_madness_returns_costumes_by_twilightlover865-d6b9lec.png


Hmmmmmmm.
 

Lux86

Member
Oct 27, 2017
983
Ummm, I dropped the game for reasons unrelated to this. Any regrets I had about it just vanished completely.

Well, it's a masterpiece so i'll still suggest to try it. It's not that the characters are dressed like that. People can "dress" their pawn like that (and i know it's a problem) but you can avoid to hire them.
 

Bricks

Member
Nov 6, 2017
622
Ummm, I dropped the game for reasons unrelated to this. Any regrets I had about it just vanished completely.

To be fair, that's just a character created by another player - I suppose you know how the Pawns thing works if you have played the game. Such things are very easy to ignore, I actually noticed that Pawn just because she was alone, isolated, wandering the wilderness. Had she been in Gran Soren, I probably would've never noticed her.

I also have to say that, as much as I'm liking it, the game is a bit overrated around here.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
To be fair, that's just a character created by another player - I suppose you know how the Pawns thing works if you have played the game. Such things are very easy to ignore, I actually noticed that Pawn just because she was alone, isolated, wandering the wilderness. Had she been in Gran Soren, I probably would've never noticed her.

I also have to say that, as much as I'm liking it, the game is a bit overrated around here.

Well, it's a masterpiece so i'll still suggest to try it. It's not that the characters are dressed like that. People can "dress" their pawn like that (and i know it's a problem) but you can avoid to hire them.
Yeah I played the game only for few hours, bought it at launch when the PC version came. It wasn't the kind of RPG I like, it's strenghts were in other areas than what I consider important for my enjoyment and immersion. But good to know that the costume for the character isn't something the devs came up with.
 

Bricks

Member
Nov 6, 2017
622
Yeah I played the game only for few hours, bought it at launch when the PC version came. It wasn't the kind of RPG I like, it's strenghts were in other areas than what I consider important for my enjoyment and immersion. But good to know that the costume for the character isn't something the devs came up with.

Now, to balance things out, I also wouldn't say the devs are entirely guilt-free. They still came up with that piece of 'armor'. And the game also has some examples of the classic "a man's full armor is a woman's metal bikini".
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
Now, to balance things out, I also wouldn't say the devs are entirely guilt-free. They still came up with that piece of 'armor'. And the game also has some examples of the classic "a man's full armor is a woman's metal bikini".
Well true, their choices allow creation of such character. But I ment that they didn't specifically sexualize a character that is atleast in my eyes made to look like a child/young teen. Like someone could probably use character creators to create a racist stereotype, but that's not necessarily the fault of developers.
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,419
The English Wilderness
It still amuses me that so many (most? All?) games equate attractiveness with skimpy underwear. It implies the people who design/consume this stuff have very limited, very narrow interests, with a particular penchant for making women look as submissive as possible.

Or, in other words
KamoshidaLove.png

And yet still we have people arguing that it's okay? That the fanservice is "equal"?
 

Bricks

Member
Nov 6, 2017
622
It still amuses me that so many (most? All?) games equate attractiveness with skimpy underwear. It implies the people who design/consume this stuff have very limited, very narrow interests, with a particular penchant for making women look as submissive as possible.

I'd rule out all, maybe even most since it's clear that in recent years things have been changing quite rapidly - with a bit more resistance coming from the East, for now. So many is right, I'd say.
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
I personally don't have a problem with the butler vs maid outfit. I don't like the others, and there definitely is a disonance between the Kamoshida stuff and what you get in the game. But Futaba is just too creepy for me. Not only because she is 15 years old, or she has more child like proportions, but because of how her character is build. She was a shut in until not so long ago, and despite being a genious and quite mature for her age in some senses, she still has a long way to go and keeps some more childish traits. The way the rest of the party treats her in Persona 5 is a mix of a traditional friendship dynamic and how the party in P4 behaved around Nanako.

I've already said that I don't like at all the fact that the main character was able to romance her. I can write a 2000 words essay that explains why I don't find it okay. The gap in power dynamics between the main character and her is just too big for me and a lot of other people to be able to accept it, no matter how much we like the character.

TL;DR: This is just a bit less creepy for me than giving Nanako bikini armor. Because Persona 5 treats her like a child for a big part of her screentime. Even if you compare her swimsuit to the other characters, hers have this skirt that mostly covers het butt, as opposed to the rest of the cast.



Those game sell like 20,000 units at the end of the day, so it's just a small amount of people finding that okay. It's not culture differences, it's about cattering to a relatively small but reliable audience. Equating Japanese culture to those niche products could feel as insulting for someone that actually lives there. If you actually bother at seeing at which time most of those otaku-targeted anime air, you'd see that they're aired at late night, for example. But you miss this kind of information because you don't live there, and Crunchyroll and other (both legal and illegal) services bring every anime in the season in bulk and unfiltered.

If being on the rise is going from 20,000 to 30,000 or 40,000 units, the difference is still negible in the great scheme of things. It's like saying the West is ok with pedophilia because I can go to pornhub and look for a video where a young looking actress dresses as a teen.



I never bought any spin-off of Persona 4, and I don't really see this changing anytime soon. I generally can stand the disonances in the game (by not using certain features and not pursuing certain characters) because I really like it most of the time, but the spin-offs just push the stuff that I don't like while leaving aside what I actually like about the series.

Except that Japan only approved a law about pedophilia in 2014 (with a really bad punishment for it considering the crime) and still have teenage gravure idols who poses in sexual positions for magazines. And the last thing is accepted in Japan for the normal citizen, just like many of those things that sexualize the japanese women be it a teenager or a adult.

The fact that high-school girls are a fetish between japanese men in their 2late 0s and more older and Joshikosei business (ie, prostitution, selling of underwear and other things) exist is another big factor of those things.

Simplify everything into "otaku" is just diminish the problems that different parts of the society in Japan has. Like I said other times, those things that happens in anime/manga/games are because of what happens in reality with women (even teenagers) being objected and it reflects in the products since those ideas comes from raising and experience with the environment.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,784
I honestly never got that sea-lioning comic. You can make a joke about bad faith arguments without bringing in what I always assumed was racism until recently.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,784
Racism? It's about gamergators...

I didn't know about that at the time. I always kind of just mentally replaced sea lion as "black" or "Jewish" whenever I saw it and I was like "I'd definitely want to know why someone hates me when they know nothing about me beyond ethnicity." GG is a movement which is something you choose to join, but you don't choose what you're born as, which is why I thought sea lion was a metaphor for ethnicity.
 

Valkyr1983

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,523
NH, United States
It's PARTICULARLY dissapointing because you see the bulters and maids on top and it's like "hey, this is some fanservice that's not super shitty pandering! Way to shape up guys!"

And then you scroll down and it's like...

1b3vnv.jpg


And then YOU feel foolish because you gave them the benefit of the doubt.


How about do some fun fanservice stuff that doesn't completely undermine the characters they spent 80+ hours defining?

I mean shit dude. This is actually fucking shitty. It's, "we know this game doesn't have enough merit on it's own to sell, so we'll just fill it with softcore porn to get that ASSURED money, and move on".

Like, why bother doing it at all at that point. When you're basically tacitly admitting that the game won't do numbers unless you do this, why bother doing that at all?

Because enough people will buy if for the dancing and "soft core porn"?

I assume P4 DAN did ok?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,784
3 and 5 dancing wouldn't be happening if 4 DAN didn't do well. They seem like the kind of games that Atlus would make bank on with DLC alone.
 

Choppasmith

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,415
Beaumont, CA
It's PARTICULARLY dissapointing because you see the bulters and maids on top and it's like "hey, this is some fanservice that's not super shitty pandering! Way to shape up guys!"

And then you scroll down and it's like...

1b3vnv.jpg


And then YOU feel foolish because you gave them the benefit of the doubt.


How about do some fun fanservice stuff that doesn't completely undermine the characters they spent 80+ hours defining?

I mean shit dude. This is actually fucking shitty. It's, "we know this game doesn't have enough merit on it's own to sell, so we'll just fill it with softcore porn to get that ASSURED money, and move on".

Like, why bother doing it at all at that point. When you're basically tacitly admitting that the game won't do numbers unless you do this, why bother doing that at all?

Pretty much how I feel about SNK Heroines.

Looking up this term and learning that it originated in a Wondermark strip just made my day.
2014-09-19-1062sea.png

I didn't know the term either. I looked it up for the definition, but I didn't know it was based off this comic.

I didn't know about that at the time. I always kind of just mentally replaced sea lion as "black" or "Jewish" whenever I saw it and I was like "I'd definitely want to know why someone hates me when they know nothing about me beyond ethnicity." GG is a movement which is something you choose to join, but you don't choose what you're born as, which is why I thought sea lion was a metaphor for ethnicity.

I can see what you mean. But for me, it reminds me of the times where GG'ers would compare tweets and statements to try to catch people like Anita in a lie like they're not allowed to have hot takes that can't be changed later.
 

Twig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,486
I can see what you mean. But for me, it reminds me of the times where GG'ers would compare tweets and statements to try to catch people like Anita in a lie like they're not allowed to have hot takes that can't be changed later.
Yep. Polite and irritatingly persistent questioning is a very common tactic of trolls aiming for a GOTCHA!

"I don't know why you're mad. I'm just asking questions!"

lmao
 

NoName999

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,906
Why does Japan get a defense force for their fetishizing girls?

I mean for fucks sake America caught flak for its hidden culture of marrying off 13 year olds and France caught flak for allowing 15 year olds to marry.But Japan? How dare you insult glorious nippon!
 

the_wart

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,262
Why does Japan get a defense force for their fetishizing girls?

I mean for fucks sake America caught flak for its hidden culture of marrying off 13 year olds and France caught flak for allowing 15 year olds to marry.But Japan? How dare you insult glorious nippon!

I mean, you know why. To deflect from their own bullshit with a pretense of multiculturalism. Some tiny subset of non-white people are also into this shit, so therefore attacking it is racist!

This isn't to say everyone is deflecting out of defensiveness. But, well, most of them are.
 

Opa-Pa

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,810
Why does Japan get a defense force for their fetishizing girls?

I mean for fucks sake America caught flak for its hidden culture of marrying off 13 year olds and France caught flak for allowing 15 year olds to marry.But Japan? How dare you insult glorious nippon!
It's literally the only country in the world whose culture is exempt from any criticism, didn't you hear? Please respect their right to be fucking gross, it's important because, uh, reasons.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,784
Why does Japan get a defense force for their fetishizing girls?

I mean for fucks sake America caught flak for its hidden culture of marrying off 13 year olds and France caught flak for allowing 15 year olds to marry.But Japan? How dare you insult glorious nippon!

If we're talking about stuff like junior idols or the JK business, I've never really seen a defense force for that. Things get a bit trickier when we talk about fictional media (which I wouldn't compare to real children being married off), in which case I've seen the defense applied pretty broadly across all cultures with Japan only being a focus because they're the ones making that kind of content.
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
Why does Japan get a defense force for their fetishizing girls?

I mean for fucks sake America caught flak for its hidden culture of marrying off 13 year olds and France caught flak for allowing 15 year olds to marry.But Japan? How dare you insult glorious nippon!

Uh, If this was meant to me, I wasn't defending Japan but pointing out how those things happen in the country and are normalized by the people and society. Which is true and a problem that goes to entertainment media because of it.

If such things weren't normalized like Teenage Gravure Idol, you can bet that the companies wouldn't try to do such things even for the japanese market since they would get an backlash. But this isn't the reality and the society has this problem that they accept the sexualization of real girls as models and idols and that reflect in other products of other industries as well.

And that's why I believe that these things are only going to change when the japanese society changes itself and see it by themselves but that part is extremely difficult. So in the end, maybe this will change in 50 or 100 years, who knows. But I believe that I'm not going to see it while alive.
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,419
The English Wilderness
Why does Japan get a defense force for their fetishizing girls?

I mean for fucks sake America caught flak for its hidden culture of marrying off 13 year olds and France caught flak for allowing 15 year olds to marry.But Japan? How dare you insult glorious nippon!
I think because its culture - or, rather, the weeb perception of its culture - is something of a safe space for certain people. They've romanticised it as being this haven for people like them, whose every facet caters to their interests. It's a place where they're no longer "weird". Criticise it and you're criticising them and their way of life. That Japan is nothing like they imagine it doesn't matter - they're jacked in to the Nipponese Matrix and no they won't take your red pill.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.