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kaytee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
440
USA
Definitely makes sense, thanks for the response. So within your own particular/individual/subjective experience/encounter with the game, 2B's outfit felt like it could easily have been a conscious, confident choice on the part of the character, and given the fact that neither the camera nor other characters attempted to humiliate her for that choice within the game, 2B was in effect able to be 'sexy' (in the narrow sense of that term, but more importantly also in the full sense that includes cool/badass/empowered and so on) on her own terms, instead of being 'sexualized' on the terms of others.

With regard to the points you made that I highlighted in bold, though, it also sounds like for you, 2B being sexy in the 'narrow sense' of the word wasn't actually necessary for her to be cool/badass/empowered (sexy in the 'full sense'), though it didn't necessarily hurt (or perhaps even helped, to some extent, or in some instances?), but only as long as the aforementioned conditions (outfit was legitimately cool, camera in check, character legitimately allowed to be 'sexy' without being 'sexualized', and so on) were satisfied.

Also, sounds like you certainly wouldn't object to the removal of some/all of the more 'narrowly sexy' elements from 2B's design (and maybe even would prefer to have them removed?), and ultimately, 2B is very much a unique case for you, since fanservicey designs in general are still highly bothersome.

Hope I got most of that right! As I mentioned elsewhere (before the game was released) the design does make me a bit uncomfortable, but it's definitely interesting/reassuring to consider different perspectives.

Mostly you've got me pegged, but I would say I never felt like 2B would've picked those clothes. She doesn't seem like she would waste time on fashion. And since the androids were created by humans, I actually had the thought of, "Of course some human designer would make sexy ladies in revealing outfits." 9S is in a fetish-y outfit himself, even though it's of a different type, so I spent a while wondering if their designs might be mentioned in the game. It was creepy to me that they were dressed in sexualized outfits when they were almost like slaves. But it wasn't creepy in a way that didn't fit the game's themes, so it didn't bother me in the way it would in another game.

I've never found sexy outfits or femme fatale's empowering, so yeah, I would be totally fine with it all being changed. I've puzzled over why 2B didn't bother me because usually she really would, and this is all I've come up with.
 
Oct 27, 2017
996
Mostly you've got me pegged, but I would say I never felt like 2B would've picked those clothes. She doesn't seem like she would waste time on fashion. And since the androids were created by humans, I actually had the thought of, "Of course some human designer would make sexy ladies in revealing outfits." 9S is in a fetish-y outfit himself, even though it's of a different type, so I spent a while wondering if their designs might be mentioned in the game. It was creepy to me that they were dressed in sexualized outfits when they were almost like slaves. But it wasn't creepy in a way that didn't fit the game's themes, so it didn't bother me in the way it would in another game.

I've never found sexy outfits or femme fatale's empowering, so yeah, I would be totally fine with it all being changed. I've puzzled over why 2B didn't bother me because usually she really would, and this is all I've come up with.

Ah I see, the major mitigating factor in this particular case was not any supposed contribution to the 'empowerment' of the character (you generally find any such claims that a character's sexualization contributes to their empowerment to be unpersuasive, both in this case and in all other cases that come to mind), but rather what felt like an effective/genuine contribution to the thematic substance of the game. Important distinction, for sure! Appreciate the clarification.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,296
My biggest problem with the story of Nier Automata is basically that there's only ever justification for the mundane and meaningless stuff in the game. The plot is effectively that there is no plot, just a lot of people who are misinformed. But then, all the stuff that immediately made my hair stand up, never got explained.
There's no good explanation for:
Why the androids seek to mimic humans? And why, perhaps more critically, only in facile ways?
How, with a bunch of now self-aware machines, did any of the machines survive if they are really that dedicated to war, and, if they weren't that dedicated to the war, why did it take such a ridiculously long time to figure out the lie? Like, with the power any given android had, self-awareness would basically dictate all of this would be over before the player (or 2B) even entered the equation.

And I'm sure someone somewhere is going to argue that, "that's the point!" but most of it comes off as lazy and hand wave-y in a way I've rarely seen in games (mostly because it's so dedicated to its silliness). Granted, Taro's previous Nier, Nier Gestalt, is equally silly, but it's silly in ways that are believable given how convoluted every single thing is right off the bat. Nier Automata takes a long time to get to that point, and seems like it wants us to treat characters like Adam and Eve seriously. Both of the games are pretty assuredly intended to create a response of mixed emotions, but Nier Gestalt does a much better job of stirring that pot. The combat in Automata is a lot better due to Platinum's involvement, but nothing else improved. The game feels almost like a monolith to stagnation, both in the story it tells and in what the game represents.

I find Yoko Taro's brand of insanity endearing, but so much of that is scraped away in Automata. And without that overly committed quirkiness, the game just never really clicks on anything, because it never commits to any of the extremes it presents.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
3,784
My biggest problem with the story of Nier Automata is basically that there's only ever justification for the mundane and meaningless stuff in the game. The plot is effectively that there is no plot, just a lot of people who are misinformed. But then, all the stuff that immediately made my hair stand up, never got explained.
There's no good explanation for:
Why the androids seek to mimic humans? And why, perhaps more critically, only in facile ways?
How, with a bunch of now self-aware machines, did any of the machines survive if they are really that dedicated to war, and, if they weren't that dedicated to the war, why did it take such a ridiculously long time to figure out the lie? Like, with the power any given android had, self-awareness would basically dictate all of this would be over before the player (or 2B) even entered the equation.

And I'm sure someone somewhere is going to argue that, "that's the point!" but most of it comes off as lazy and hand wave-y in a way I've rarely seen in games (mostly because it's so dedicated to its silliness). Granted, Taro's previous Nier, Nier Gestalt, is equally silly, but it's silly in ways that are believable given how convoluted every single thing is right off the bat. Nier Automata takes a long time to get to that point, and seems like it wants us to treat characters like Adam and Eve seriously. Both of the games are pretty assuredly intended to create a response of mixed emotions, but Nier Gestalt does a much better job of stirring that pot. The combat in Automata is a lot better due to Platinum's involvement, but nothing else improved. The game feels almost like a monolith to stagnation, both in the story it tells and in what the game represents.

I find Yoko Taro's brand of insanity endearing, but so much of that is scraped away in Automata. And without that overly committed quirkiness, the game just never really clicks on anything, because it never commits to any of the extremes it presents.

I always figured it was just a means to preserve human nature after Project Gestalt failed. That desire was passed on to whatever androids ended up creating Yorha.

Alternatively, it could be because the Yorha units' black boxes are made of machine parts, which also tried to mimic humans. Though I suppose that just leads to the question of why the machines were mimicking humans. They could have just been learning robots with crazy technology that could scan the remnants of civilization and sort of replicate it, birthing a desire within them that carried over to the androids.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,296
I always figured it was just a means to preserve human nature after Project Gestalt failed. That desire was passed on to whatever androids ended up creating Yorha.

Alternatively, it could be because the Yorha units' black boxes are made of machine parts, which also tried to mimic humans. Though I suppose that just leads to the question of why the machines were mimicking humans. They could have just been learning robots with crazy technology that could scan the remnants of civilization and sort of replicate it, birthing a desire within them that carried over to the androids.
I mean sure, but this assumes the whole self-awareness thing isn't a thing when the game explicitly states otherwise. Which is why I call it hand wave-y. I am not saying there isn't a possible explanation for what happens in Automata, but the one that is given isn't nearly enough of a rabbit hole for it to make sense that the machines themselves got lost in their own convolution of the convoluted and fragmented information they discovered about humanity.

Even if we assume the androids are like hyper aware state machines, it still doesn't explain how the lie lasted as long as it did. Or really, it simply wouldn't have happened at all. If we assume it's a learning machine that was taking each possibility through its paces, it's unlikely it would have ever needed the 2B scenario to figure out what was going on.

I guess a possible (though unlikely) situation is that humanity's memory is making them stupid? If so, I really felt like that should have been explored, or maybe even been "the point" explicitly. Like, imagine if the world created were effectively like Idiocracy. That would have been some shit. And ironically enough, would also explain a lot of the incredible idiosyncrasies, such as the character designs and endless wars.
 
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Antiwhippy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,458
Even if we assume the androids are like hyper aware state machines, it still doesn't explain how the lie lasted as long as it did. Or really, it simply wouldn't have happened at all. If we assume it's a learning machine that was taking each possibility through its paces, it's unlikely it would have ever needed the 2B scenario to figure out what was going on.

I mean it's basically an allegory for religion. Why does that persist so long even though it could all be so easily disproved? Sometimes people just don't want to look at the truth. And for years, the ones that are too curious and tried to poke at things too much were killed off as heretics.

I don't really find it that unbelievable considering human nature.

The androids never really had enough faith in themselves to fully consider themselves as fully independent beings. I honestly love the great irony in that it is the machines who eventually do.

As for why the androids and machines choose to emulate humanity it's because we're all they have. I mean the machines have the aliens but that was kinda handwaved away as us being a lot more interesting to study. And that is actually tragic because the game does acknowledge how much of a fuck up we are as a species.
 
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Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,585
Ummm, I dropped the game for reasons unrelated to this. Any regrets I had about it just vanished completely.

To be fair, I've played through that game 3 or 4 times on multiple platforms and literally have never seen that. I would go as far as to say that it's actually quite difficult to be lewd in Dragon's Dogma.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,296
I mean it's basically an allegory for religion. Why does that persist so long even though it could all be so easily disproved? Sometimes people just don't want to look at the truth. And for years, the ones that are too curious and tried to poke at things too much were killed off as heretics.

I don't really find it that unbelievable considering human nature.

The androids never really had enough faith in themselves to fully consider themselves as fully independent beings. I honestly love the great irony in that it is the machines who eventually do.

As for why the androids and machines choose to emulate humanity it's because we're all they have. I mean the machines have the aliens but that was kinda handwaved away as us being a lot more interesting to study. And that is actually tragic because the game does acknowledge how much of a fuck up we are as a species.
Am very much aware of what it's trying to get across. It just does so in an extremely lazy manner (Adam and Eve probably being the most blatant).

Though once again, your response is also based on the idea that the machines aren't self-aware, which again, they explicitly are.

Also, simply acknowledging that humanity is fucked up is not a commentary on it unto itself. That's basically the starting line. Though I suppose it does provide yet more evidence that video games are still only at the starting line when it comes to actual social commentary. Idiocracy, awkward though it is, actually both shows the issues and provides some form of resolution, regardless of how satisfying it is.

Nier Gestalt's scale was much smaller, but it at least had a similar resolution to its own commentary. Nier Automata never really closes the loop.
To be fair, I've played through that game 3 or 4 times on multiple platforms and literally have never seen that. I would go as far as to say that it's actually quite difficult to be lewd in Dragon's Dogma.
It's not, but it's still probably the only 3D game that actually tries to realize high fantasy as it might exist in an action RPG.
 

Antiwhippy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,458
Though once again, your response is also based on the idea that the machines aren't self-aware, which again, they explicitly are.

Oh they totally are. I mean throughout the game you see androids and machines who are entirely aware of an identity beyond their "base" programming, It even plays into the story via the android's disbelief of the machine's own self awareness and the black box revelation.

Also, simply acknowledging that humanity is fucked up is not a commentary on it unto itself. That's basically the starting line. Though I suppose it does provide yet more evidence that video games are still only at the starting line when it comes to actual social commentary. Idiocracy, awkward though it is, actually both shows the issues and provides some form of resolution, regardless of how satisfying it is.

It depends on what you're looking for I guess. I mean the whole premise of the game is a neverending war based on willful ignorance with a refusal to acknowledge the otherside as anything but the other.

Nier Gestalt's scale was much smaller, but it least it had a similar resolution to its own commentary. Nier Automata never really closes the loop.

I feel that it does, but at different points. The black box revelation and the fallout from that is pretty much one for me.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,296
Oh they totally are. I mean throughout the game you see androids and machines who are entirely aware of an identity beyond their "base" programming, It even plays into the story via the android's disbelief of the machine's own self awareness and the black box revelation.

It depends on what you're looking for I guess. I mean the whole premise of the game is a neverending war based on willful ignorance with a refusal to acknowledge the otherside as anything but the other.
The problem is that this willful ignorance is that it's played seriously. You can play actual ignorance seriously, but willful ignorance, especially when it's related to a serious issue, is almost assuredly going to make the reader miss "the point" (because willful ignorance is extremely distracting when it's not part of the joke - and particularly in storytelling, people generally expect those issues to be wrapped up fairly quickly once they're revealed, because they tear at the seams of suspension of disbelief otherwise - Automata takes ages before ever getting around to it).
I feel that it does, but at different points. The black box revelation and the fallout from that is pretty much one for me.
Except it's a continuation, not a resolution.

Worth mentioning, my mental response to the "revelations" was, "well, this is stupid." They then proceeded to treat it seriously and unless the entire thing is like the worst written black comedy ever, all I could think after those points was how stupid it was (entirely possible, Yoko Taro certainly doesn't shy away from making light of serious issues - it's just, he's no Charlie Brooker).
 
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Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
The Wondermark sealion comic made me binge it a bit and I feel this one is even more appropriate for the thread and the "political correctness gone mad" mantra of gators and such ilk.

2014-10-24-1071offend.png


I think because its culture - or, rather, the weeb perception of its culture - is something of a safe space for certain people. They've romanticised it as being this haven for people like them, whose every facet caters to their interests. It's a place where they're no longer "weird". Criticise it and you're criticising them and their way of life. That Japan is nothing like they imagine it doesn't matter - they're jacked in to the Nipponese Matrix and no they won't take your red pill.

This is extremelly insightful. I've seen quite a few members act like this in ResetEra.

To be fair, I've played through that game 3 or 4 times on multiple platforms and literally have never seen that. I would go as far as to say that it's actually quite difficult to be lewd in Dragon's Dogma.

Actually, is that actually armor? It feels to me like the character is simply "naked", i.e. unequipped of all armor. It's kind of odd because I don't remember armor like that at all, or even a lot of armor that didn't look appropriate, and I did play a female main character, but I might have simply blocked it off / forgotten about it because I never used it.

Incidentally, Monster Hunter World is starting to royally piss me off. As I climb in Hunter Rank it's nearly impossible to find any armor that covers my character's upper legs and isn't either awful looking or has low stats. This is quite an achievement considering chest armor, skirt armor and leg armor are all independent pieces. To the point that I'm considering using the coupon to remake my character as male, even though playing as male characters bores the fuck out of me.
 

Antiwhippy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,458
The problem is that this willful ignorance is that it's played seriously. You can play actual ignorance seriously, but willful ignorance, especially when it's related to a serious issue, is almost assuredly going to make the reader miss "the point" (because willful ignorance is extremely distracting when it's not part of the joke - and particularly in storytelling, people generally expect those issues to be wrapped up fairly quickly once they're revealed, because they tear at the seams of suspension of disbelief otherwise - Automata takes ages before ever getting around to it).

Mmm I guess? I kinda like the way they paced it (I mean people can argue about route B till both sides stopped breathing but that's beside the point :P) but it's true that the revelations start hitting statistically where half the playerbase would fall off for any game.

I tend to think that it's fairly deliberate on the game's part on testing the player's on empathy towards the machines. Which I feel is deliberately more ambiguous and "subtle" (as in it's not really that subtle :P) than
THE SHADES WERE HUMAN ALL ALONG LISTEN TO THEIR CRIES FOR HELP AND DEATH KNELLS WHICH YOU COULDN'T HEAR BEFORE YOU HORRIBLE MONSTER. :P

Except it's a continuation, not a resolution.

For the story sure, but for me personally it's what brings everything to sharp relief.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
The Wondermark sealion comic made me binge it a bit and I feel this one is even more appropriate for the thread and the "political correctness gone mad" mantra of gators and such ilk.

2014-10-24-1071offend.png




This is extremelly insightful. I've seen quite a few members act like this in ResetEra.



Actually, is that actually armor? It feels to me like the character is simply "naked", i.e. unequipped of all armor. It's kind of odd because I don't remember armor like that at all, or even a lot of armor that didn't look appropriate, and I did play a female main character, but I might have simply blocked it off / forgotten about it because I never used it.

Incidentally, Monster Hunter World is starting to royally piss me off. As I climb in Hunter Rank it's nearly impossible to find any armor that covers my character's upper legs and isn't either awful looking or has low stats. This is quite an achievement considering chest armor, skirt armor and leg armor are all independent pieces. To the point that I'm considering using the coupon to remake my character as male, even though playing as male characters bores the fuck out of me.
It's a great strip- there's loads of them but I quite like this one too :-) I think the uncertainty of both parties (I don't know/this sometimes helps) is quite nice to see in a medium where firm punchlines are the usual format.
ryZiui.png
 
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Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
Mostly you've got me pegged, but I would say I never felt like 2B would've picked those clothes. She doesn't seem like she would waste time on fashion. And since the androids were created by humans, I actually had the thought of, "Of course some human designer would make sexy ladies in revealing outfits." 9S is in a fetish-y outfit himself, even though it's of a different type, so I spent a while wondering if their designs might be mentioned in the game. It was creepy to me that they were dressed in sexualized outfits when they were almost like slaves. But it wasn't creepy in a way that didn't fit the game's themes, so it didn't bother me in the way it would in another game.

I've never found sexy outfits or femme fatale's empowering, so yeah, I would be totally fine with it all being changed. I've puzzled over why 2B didn't bother me because usually she really would, and this is all I've come up with.

YoHRas are actually created by Androids. The human created-androids are more close to their role (combat and or Replicant maintenance).
The reason of the designs is.... Yoshitaka Amano, really.

Mind you I don't really think it matters much. Everyone praises Kaine because her pandering outfit has a story reason, but I don't think it changes that much, you can do the same story-wise without putting the girl in a trash bag.

It's especially bad when you compare it with the young Nier story and how they changed his reaction after being sexually abused to something more symbolic and not as tacky as what Taro wanted at first. With men they always go for a more symbolic route (to be fair the original idea was stupid as fuck).

Actually, is that actually armor? It feels to me like the character is simply "naked", i.e. unequipped of all armor. It's kind of odd because I don't remember armor like that at all, or even a lot of armor that didn't look appropriate, and I did play a female main character, but I might have simply blocked it off / forgotten about it because I never used it.

.

the thong is certainly an armor piece lol the top part is naked yeah.
 
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kaytee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
440
USA
YoHRas are actually created by Androids. The human created-androids are more close to their role (combat and or Replicant maintenance).
The reason of the designs is.... Yoshitaka Amano, really.

Mind you I don't really think it matters much. Everyone praises Kaine because her pandering outfit has a story reason, but I don't think it changes that much, you can do the same story-wise without putting the girl in a trash bag.

Oh no, I know, but when I started the game I definitely didn't. I actually went in not knowing Yoshida (I'm sure this is who you meant) had done the designs and at one point was like "you know what this looks like..." before googling it. Guy sure has a signature...

It always is that way, right? Even if the design as some sort of in-game justification, it's because they chose to make it that way. It's like when there's a succubus (I'm bored with them...). No one made you put succubi in your game OR make them stereotypical. Sometimes the in-game justification is reason enough, but it's tough to do that with sexualization unless sex is an important part/theme of the game.

Kaine's outfit is so egregious... and unflattering. So unflattering.
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,419
The English Wilderness
One thing that only just struck me, on thinking it about it, is how all the Soul Calibur guest fighters are clearly targeted at a male audience - and have themselves all been men. Darth Vader? Kratos? Spawn? Geralt? It's a complete sausage-fest!

Once again, Video Games are for Teenage Boys.
 

Deleted member 4037

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,989
One thing that only just struck me, on thinking it about it, is how all the Soul Calibur guest fighters are clearly targeted at a male audience - and have themselves all been men. Darth Vader? Kratos? Spawn? Geralt? It's a complete sausage-fest!

Once again, Video Games are for Teenage Boys.
I mean they are popular characters, who would you suggest?
 

Twig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,486
I didn't know about that at the time. I always kind of just mentally replaced sea lion as "black" or "Jewish" whenever I saw it and I was like "I'd definitely want to know why someone hates me when they know nothing about me beyond ethnicity." GG is a movement which is something you choose to join, but you don't choose what you're born as, which is why I thought sea lion was a metaphor for ethnicity.
I know the conversation has passed, but it's actually been on my mind intermittently since then. I can definitely see why it might come off this way, especially for someone who doesn't read the comic normally. I think the reason it didn't for me is because, when it's meant to be insulting, marginalized races etc are much more often portrayed as belligerent and illogical and emotional instead of persistently polite. But it's a shame it can give the wrong impression.
 

sensui-tomo

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,629
One thing that only just struck me, on thinking it about it, is how all the Soul Calibur guest fighters are clearly targeted at a male audience - and have themselves all been men. Darth Vader? Kratos? Spawn? Geralt? It's a complete sausage-fest!

Once again, Video Games are for Teenage Boys.
There were those *bonus* guest artist cameo Create a character stuff for one of the soul caliburs. I know it isnt the same and they were anime trash. (i think it was soul cal 4 but i could be wrong)
 

Valkyr1983

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,523
NH, United States
One thing that only just struck me, on thinking it about it, is how all the Soul Calibur guest fighters are clearly targeted at a male audience - and have themselves all been men. Darth Vader? Kratos? Spawn? Geralt? It's a complete sausage-fest!

Once again, Video Games are for Teenage Boys.

Who would you choose as a guest?

I'd rather not have guests at all

Always feel out of place
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,956
One thing that only just struck me, on thinking it about it, is how all the Soul Calibur guest fighters are clearly targeted at a male audience - and have themselves all been men. Darth Vader? Kratos? Spawn? Geralt? It's a complete sausage-fest!

Once again, Video Games are for Teenage Boys.
i guess you can argue that Geralt got some small fixes to appease the ladies, at least in witcher 3
 

Deleted member 18021

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,000
I-Is she wearing a thong over the top of her clothes?

Reminds me of that woman in FFXII

I guess that's what it's supposed to be.

Full character art (it's big):

ptvkhMF.jpg

The more I look at her design, the less sure I am about anything. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I wanna know who signed off on that FFXII character design.
"This is good enough".
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,775
I finally finished Xenoblade Chronicles 2, and....fuck that game. I almost started a thread just about the game, but people in the XC2 thread thought it was talked to death enough...

I feel like there is something specific that hasn't been touched on a lot, and it is this...I'm going to have to ramble to get there....but what pisses me off about XC2 is that there are SOME women in the game that aren't dressed over-the-top sexual. However, through the story itself 2 of these characters, Nia and Poppi, "power up" and suddenly go from respectable designs to garbage sexy stuff. Here is Nia before and after:


240
a70.jpg

Then there is Poppi:


Why does leveling up equate to revealing more skin? This game has made me hit my limit on these shit designs in video games.
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,908
JP
I honestly don't know how you guys manage to play these kind of games. You need to like animu waifu stuff or at the very least tolerate it in order to go through a modern JRPG. It's just way too stupid to me.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,401
Actually, is that actually armor? It feels to me like the character is simply "naked", i.e. unequipped of all armor. It's kind of odd because I don't remember armor like that at all, or even a lot of armor that didn't look appropriate, and I did play a female main character, but I might have simply blocked it off / forgotten about it because I never used it.
Yeah, that was an unarmoured character, but the game does have sexy armour pieces too... for females only, of course. e_e

Incidentally, Monster Hunter World is starting to royally piss me off. As I climb in Hunter Rank it's nearly impossible to find any armor that covers my character's upper legs and isn't either awful looking or has low stats. This is quite an achievement considering chest armor, skirt armor and leg armor are all independent pieces. To the point that I'm considering using the coupon to remake my character as male, even though playing as male characters bores the fuck out of me.
Yep, I made two characters, but abandoned my female character and just kept playing as the dude (too grindy to play both even if I use different loadouts, and the unskippable cut scenes just make this way too tedious). Fuck that noise.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
I finally finished Xenoblade Chronicles 2, and....fuck that game. I almost started a thread just about the game, but people in the XC2 thread thought it was talked to death enough...

I feel like there is something specific that hasn't been touched on a lot, and it is this...I'm going to have to ramble to get there....but what pisses me off about XC2 is that there are SOME women in the game that aren't dressed over-the-top sexual. However, through the story itself 2 of these characters, Nia and Poppi, "power up" and suddenly go from respectable designs to garbage sexy stuff. Here is Nia before and after:


240
a70.jpg

Then there is Poppi:


Why does leveling up equate to revealing more skin? This game has made me hit my limit on these shit designs in video games.

ayyyyyy and here (as someone that didn't play XC2) I always thought "atleast the loli catgirl ain't half-naked". This game lol
 

Opa-Pa

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,810
ayyyyyy and here (as someone that didn't play XC2) I always thought "atleast the loli catgirl ain't half-naked". This game lol
Bro, that fucking game goes out on its way to ruin what little good stuff it has, it's awful. Imagine my experience as someone whose first impressions were "Well, at least Poppi is largely inoffensive and Nia is the sole standout character in this cast" lol, you dodged quite the bullet there.
Sheesh. A decade ago, designers hid their guilty fetish characters as nobody NPCs in their games. Today they're main characters. How far we've come.....
To be fair, Fran is part of the main cast haha (but yeah I get the idea, sigh).
 

Choppasmith

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,415
Beaumont, CA
Sheesh. A decade ago, designers hid their guilty fetish characters as nobody NPCs in their games. Today they're main characters. How far we've come.....

Don't forget there's still the creepy romance between the child Zora and adult Hylian in Breath of the Wild.

And yeah I remember thong girl in FFXII originally. I remember just going wat thinking someone just had a brain fart and rushed that model out or something.
 

sensui-tomo

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,629
I mean i can come up with guests but they're not going to have good designs. Kat, 2B/A2, Aloy (if she has a melee weapon, still havent gotten to the game yet, got 2 more games in my backlog before i get there), Emily from dishonoured 2. Otherwise i got jack.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,296
Mmm I guess? I kinda like the way they paced it (I mean people can argue about route B till both sides stopped breathing but that's beside the point :P) but it's true that the revelations start hitting statistically where half the playerbase would fall off for any game.

I tend to think that it's fairly deliberate on the game's part on testing the player's on empathy towards the machines. Which I feel is deliberately more ambiguous and "subtle" (as in it's not really that subtle :P) than
THE SHADES WERE HUMAN ALL ALONG LISTEN TO THEIR CRIES FOR HELP AND DEATH KNELLS WHICH YOU COULDN'T HEAR BEFORE YOU HORRIBLE MONSTER. :P
Yes, except the immediate response to that by the main character is that he's going to save his daughter. Like, again, he can't be willfully ignorant, and he makes a choice regarding the discovery and sticks to it. Is it silly? Yes. But so is a talking magical book. This is what I mean by closing the loop. The Gestalt story is a, "how far will you go?" story, and rather than ask the player, the characters have answers to that question (which means that they are, in fact, characters, and not just stand-ins for the player). And the story is, effectively, the result of that single-mindedness.
 

Scrooge McDuck

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,039
iirc she's at some kind of guild in the first city. it's the only moment she appears in the game, she's pretty much just a NPC
Sheesh. A decade ago, designers hid their guilty fetish characters as nobody NPCs in their games. Today they're main characters. How far we've come.....

Naw, she's one of Reddas's pirate crews in Balfonheim Port. She's involved in main story cutscenes and has speaking parts. You can also do the footrace minigame with her.
 

Deleted member 4037

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,989
I mean, isn't that a massive part of the problem? The lack of female characters (and characters designed to be appealing to women) is notably lacking when it comes video games - even geek media as a whole.
I mean there is saying women are underrepresented as main characters, which I would agree with, then there is saying that having male guest characters is bad because they target "Teenage Boys". Its like saying male gamers cant play female characters, its narrow sighted to me, there are many different issues you could tackle in SC without looking too hard, but saying the guest characters are dudes so the game is bad seems nonsensical to me when a game is more than a guest character (who are popular).
 
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Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,306
Seriously? I've played through that game twice and do not remember this clown. Where was she at?

She's in Balfonheim, or whatever the pirate city port you reach near the end of the game. She works for Reddas and I think she and her cohorts are part of some racing minigame there?
Edit: Or I guess I could refresh the page before I post and see that this was literally just answered.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,585
Actually, is that actually armor? It feels to me like the character is simply "naked", i.e. unequipped of all armor. It's kind of odd because I don't remember armor like that at all, or even a lot of armor that didn't look appropriate, and I did play a female main character, but I might have simply blocked it off / forgotten about it because I never used it.
the thong is certainly an armor piece lol the top part is naked yeah.

Ah, that explains it. Looking at it again, it looks like a belt accessory over the "naked" form, which is why I tended not to see it.

Still though, I still think it's hard to be meaningfully lewd in DD, or at least, it's very rare to get a piece of decent armor that basically covers nothing that has high stats and can be used with impunity. Wanna be lewd, you're taking a hit. Things like that.

Who would you choose as a guest?

I'd rather not have guests at all

Always feel out of place
I don't think that series needs guests anymore. Giralt is the first guest they've had that makes sense.
 
Oct 27, 2017
996
The 'Poseidon Princess' scene in God of War 3 has come up several times at the old forum ( one / two), but seeing it described just now in another thread here at ERA ("...one of my favorite scenes...") has got to be a new low of some kind, I would think.

EDIT: Setting aside the above-mentioned grotesque insensitivity from an individual poster (which I suppose one should probably expect to crop up somewhere, while browsing a gaming forum that has tens of thousands of members), it was interesting to read today how a journalist chose to describe that scene in a 'sanitized' manner, with no mention of the sexualization involved:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gaming/...ew-creative-director-cory-barlog-reimagining/
By Tom Hoggins (3/19/18)
...A scene in which Kratos uses an innocent bystander to jam a cog and open a door in God of War 3 became indicative of his complete lack of empathy and, for some, the point of no return…

Kyle McKenney at Paste Magazine was one of those folks, Mr Hoggins, though somehow you missed the emphatic objections he and others had to the sexualization present in the scene:
https://www.pastemagazine.com/artic...r-must-move-beyond-the-series-history-of.html
By Kyle McKenney (6/28/16)
...Perhaps the most reprehensible and disgusting moment in the God of War series occurs partway through God of War 3... She realizes it is Kratos and cowers back in fear, saying she doesn't want his help. Kratos eventually finds his way into her room. She begs him to leave her there, but he grabs her, saying "Hold your tongue." He breaks the chains and then forces her to accompany him... Sony Santa Monica gives Kratos, and thus the player, control over this woman to instill a feeling of power, and then exposes her breasts for titillation... This moment made me sick to my stomach. It is a disgusting depiction of misogynistic violence towards women, enacted by the player character, which the developers at Sony Santa Monica included for no discernible reason other than to depict more brutal violence and female nudity…
 
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