PS4 Pro/PS5 - Native Supersampling Omissions |OT|

Vashetti · Nov 6, 2017

As per this thread, we have concluded that the PS5 doesn't force supersampling for these titles, and there's no option in the OS for the user to force it either. So currently, these Pro titles provide an inferior experience for 1080p users on PS5 than they did on PS4 Pro.

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Digital Foundry have offhandedly mentioned that Sony's OS implementation is inferior to developer-implemented supersamping:

PlayStation 4 and Xbox One both render at native 1080p with a 30fps target, but it's the differences delivered by the enhanced consoles that are most intriguing. If your PS4 Pro is set to 1080p output mode, it'll render at full HD resolution, rising to 1440p when the device is connected to a 4K display. System level super-sampling can bypass this, but the effect will be double-scaled - 1440p to 2160p back down to 1080p.

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Here are the games that don't natively support supersampling on PS4 Pro or PS5:

PS5 software

Mortal Kombat 11 Ultimate

PS4 Pro software

Anthem
Assassin's Creed III Remastered
Assassin's Creed Liberation Remastered
Assassin's Creed Rogue Remastered
Assassin's Creed: The Ezio Collection
Attack on Titan 2
Bayonetta 10th Anniversary
Berserk and the Band of the Hawk
BioShock: Remastered
BioShock 2: Remastered
BioShock Infinite: The Complete Edition
Call of Duty: Black Ops III
Call of Duty: Black Ops IIII
Call of Duty: Black Ops Cold War
Concrete Genie
The Crew 2
Danger Zone (4K displays have a 2160c mode with better effects, 1080p displays get 1620p supersampling with better effects)
Danger Zone 2 (4K displays have a 2160c mode with better effects, 1080p displays get 1620p supersampling)
The Dark Pictures: Man of Medan
Death Stranding
Dishonored 2
Dishonored: Death of the Outsider
Everybody's Golf
The Evil Within 2
Farming Simulator 17
Farming Simulator 19
FIFA 17
FIFA 18
FIFA 19
FIFA 20
FIFA 21
Final Fantasy VII Remake
Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age
Final Fantasy XIV
Firewatch
Genshin Impact
Granblue Fantasy Versus
Gran Turismo Sport
Greedfall
Hand of Fate 2
Hatsune Miku: Project DIVA Future Tone
Hatsune Miku: Project DIVA X HD
Injustice 2
Kingdom Hearts HD I.5 + II.5 ReMIX
Kingdom Hearts HD II.8 Final Chapter Prologue (KH Dream Drop Distance)
Kingdom Hearts III (Has 1080p benefits with Supersampling Mode off)
Kingdoms of Amalur: Re-Reckoning
The Last Guardian
Lawbreakers
Left Alive
Life is Strange: Before the Storm
Metal Gear Solid 5: The Phantom Pain
Metal Gear Survive
Minecraft Dungeons
MLB The Show 17
MLB The Show 18
MLB The Show 19
MLB The Show 20
Monster Energy Supercross (Has 1080p benefits with Supersampling Mode off)
Monster Energy Supercross 2
Monster Energy Supercross 3
Mortal Shell
MotoGP 17
MotoGP 18
MotoGP 19
MotoGP 20
MXGP 2019
MXGP Pro
Need For Speed: Payback
New Super Lucky's Tale
Nex Machina: Death Machine
Ni no Kuni II: Revenant Kingdom
No Man's Sky
Outlast 2 (Has 1080p benefits with Supersampling Mode off)
Plants vs. Zombies: Battle for Neighborville
PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds
Red Dead Redemption II
Rocket League
Samurai Warriors: Spirit of Sanada
Smite
South Park: The Fractured But Whole
Spyro Reignited Trilogy
Team Sonic Racing
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 1 + 2
Trials of Mana
Vanquish 10th Anniversary
The Witcher III: Wild Hunt
The Witness
Wreckfest
Ys VIII Lacrimosa of Dana

Sources:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/all-games-with-ps4-pro-enhancements.3101/
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-playstation-4-pro-game-upgrade-guide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5pXkGcmMTY

Theorry · Nov 6, 2017

Sony just need to take control of it and make it a system thing. Like the Xbox One X.

Kill3r7 · Nov 6, 2017

Theorry said:
Sony just need to take control of it and make it a system thing. Like the Xbox One X.

.

Animal Liberation Ⓥ · Nov 6, 2017

Theorry said:
Sony just need to take control of it and make it a system thing. Like the Xbox One X.

Sectorseven · Nov 6, 2017

Maybe it's not as simple as flipping a switch. They might have to allocate additional QA to that feature.

joeblow · Nov 6, 2017

The Witness gets a pass because of the outstanding AA option it offers 1080P Pro gamers, but the rest of the list are really disappointing and forces me to vote with my wallet.

I literally passed on buying the Kingdom Heart games last night (on sale) after I checked ourPS4 Pro enhancement thread and saw that downsampling isn't supported. I won't buy Everybody's Golf for the same reason, a game I would've bought full price at launch.

Jacob4815 · Nov 6, 2017

So the recent ones with absence of supersampling are Metal Gear Solid 5 and The Evil Within 2.
Two big budget games.

MGS5 is official, EW2 we have to wait for an official confirmation but my feeling is that downsampling is not supported.

javiergame4 · Nov 6, 2017

Theorry said:
Sony just need to take control of it and make it a system thing. Like the Xbox One X.

and 1st post award goes to...

Tyaren · Nov 6, 2017

Great thread! :) Thank you and watched! I'll be trying to help out here in the future too.
This really is an issue that has to be addressed over and over again, and not just be accepted as it is. Seemingly randomly locking out a big portion of PS4 Pro owners from benefits is simply an unacceptable practice. If developers can't be trusted with this at least Sony will have to do something in the future. Until that happens, let's make trouble. ;)

Vashetti · Nov 6, 2017

Thanks for all the support guys, updated the formatting a little, added MGS5, as well as TEW 2 with a '?' until we get a conclusive answer.

Lord Error · Nov 6, 2017

I'm somehwat sure I've read that Nex Machina supports downsampling, either from the developer, or some someone technical like dark10x in the Nex Machina thread. That P4gamers quote doesn't even explicitely say whether it does or doesn't. Also, I feel that The Witness is somewhat unfairly listed here, as the AA solution they provided for 1080p Pro users (4xMSAA )bests the quality of AA you'd get from supersampling the 1440p 2xMSAA resolution you get on 4K TV.

Vashetti · Nov 6, 2017

Lord Error said:
I'm somehwat sure I've read that Nex Machina supports downsampling, either from the developer, or some someone technical like dark10x in the Nex Machina thread. That P4gamers quote doesn't even explicitely say whether it does or doesn't. Also, I feel that The Witness is somewhat unfairly listed here, as the AA solution they provided for 1080p Pro users (4xMSAA )bests the quality of AA you'd get from supersampling the 1440p 2xMSAA resolution you get on 4K TV.

Provide me the evidence for Nex Machina and I'll update it. Regardless of The Witness' 1080p MSAA, it locks 1080p displays out of the option of downsampling, which is what this thread is about.

Planet · Nov 6, 2017

Maybe you could add a stars rating representing the matter? Or rather a poop rating?

One poop: not that bad, the dev clearly put some thought into the matter and acted plausibly in favor to the 1080p gamers, fully utilizing the system. Just the fact they took the decision away from them. Example: The Witness

Two poops: while there's benefit for 1080p users, e.g. a performance mode, there's something desirable only available to 4K owners, like not being able to enjoy better image quality at all without it. Example: LiS:BtS

Three poops: the developer basically gave us the finger. Two even. Nothing there for 1080peasents, go buy a real TV, lol! Example: Assassin's Creed Ezio Collection

Just am idea to toy around, still not perfect, as I don't really want to give The Witness any poop at all, it looks and runs so well. :|

ced · Nov 6, 2017

Sony really screwed up here and continues to do so. This should be done at the system level and devs shouldn't have to even think about it.

I see I'm late with this, but anyways.

Fisty · Nov 6, 2017

Theorry said:
Sony just need to take control of it and make it a system thing. Like the Xbox One X.

...or the devs could do it themselves because it's the obvious thing to do and probably takes little to no time or effort to implement.

Theorry · Nov 6, 2017

Fisty said:
...or the devs could do it themselves because it's the obvious thing to do and probably takes little to no time or effort to implement.

Sure. But thats not happening so far. And its making the Pro look "bad" and hurting the people with a 1080p. So Sony itself needs to do something. By demanding it (not a good idea most of the time) or make it a system setting. But atm this is not working and will look more bad when X releases and for example MGS gets a patch on X.

Lnds500 · Nov 6, 2017

We're back!

Fafalada · Nov 6, 2017

Sectorseven said:
Maybe it's not as simple as flipping a switch.

It is for the games before they released. Basically those that excluded it had to do it as a deliberate choice.

JusDoIt · Nov 6, 2017

Oh we just copy and pasting any old post.

memoryman3 · Nov 6, 2017

I vote to make this a system wide setting!

Vashetti · Nov 6, 2017

JusDoIt said:
Oh we just copy and pasting any old post.

?

It was my thread lol

Lots of people requesting it on here as it's a useful resource.

Fisty · Nov 6, 2017

Theorry said:
Sure. But thats not happening so far. And its making the Pro look "bad" and hurting the people with a 1080p. So Sony itself needs to do something. By demanding it (not a good idea most of the time) or make it a system setting. But atm this is not working and will look more bad when X releases and for example MGS gets a patch on X.

It only makes the Pro "look bad" to people that have no clue about any of this stuff, aka the people who can't even tell the difference between 1800p downsampled to 1080p and 1080p native. This is a dev issue

CorrisD · Nov 6, 2017

Theorry said:
Sony just need to take control of it and make it a system thing. Like the Xbox One X.

I'm not sure why they give developers quite so much control over some console functions. Same for video recording, what started as blocking certain parts has lead some games entirely blocking share functions.

The default setting of a game on the PS4 Pro should be its 4K output, this is then automatically downsampled for 1080p screens. Then you give developers the option of doing other modes, not hope they do anything at all.

JusDoIt · Nov 6, 2017

Vashetti said:
?

It was my thread lol

Lots of people requesting it on here as it's a useful resource.

My bad. Carry on, fam.

Theorry · Nov 6, 2017

Fisty said:
It only makes the Pro "look bad" to people that have no clue about any of this stuff, aka the people who can't even tell the difference between 1800p downsampled to 1080p and 1080p native. This is a dev issue

I am not following anymore. It only "looks bad" to people that dont have a clue? Huh?
And again i am not saying its not a dev issue. But Sony needs to do something about it. Its their system overall and their playerbase who get screwed over abit and dont know what they can expect when every game releases and just have fingers crossed it supports downsampling. Its just not a good thing.

Tyaren · Nov 6, 2017

I'm already wary of Shadow of the Colossus not downsampling. :( They release all this pretty footage of the Remake in 4K mode and I am really excited to experience this on my Pro as well, which I bought day one...and then the chances are high that I am treated as a second-class Pro owner again, because The Last Guardian also had no downsampling. It's just so unfair and unnecessary. I shouldn't have to worry and stress about that at all.

gebler · Nov 6, 2017

Note that 4K downsampled to 1080p actually introduces an extra, and possibly more demanding, performance case. You first have to do everything needed for the 4K mode, and then the downsampling as well, with extra costs in terms of processing, memory bandwidth, and memory footprint. XB1X has advantages in all those three areas, e.g. having 12 GB GDDR5 compared to the 8 GB on PS4 Pro, so reserving some of that for mandatory 4K->1080p downsampling may be an easier decision for them than it would be for Sony.

Deleted member 1635 · Nov 6, 2017

It's bullshit, really. I've got a 4K TV and a PS4 Pro, but Sony has really mishandled this thing. It's really quite a disgrace just how short it has fallen of its potential.

Miggytronz · Nov 6, 2017

Supersampling just just be standard practice by now. It's a shame.

impact · Nov 6, 2017

Theorry said:
Sony just need to take control of it and make it a system thing. Like the Xbox One X.

It's astonishing that the Pro is a year old and they still haven't done this. XB1X really makes my Pro look really lazy in comparison :/

Planet · Nov 7, 2017

gebler said:
Note that 4K downsampled to 1080p actually introduces an extra, and possibly more demanding, performance case.

We had that theory disproved a few times already. Some games do offer Supersampling when connected to a 4K TV just set to 1080p. Others proved after a patch that there was no such problem after all.

Deleted member 1162 · Nov 7, 2017

i want my downsampling! (with bib, hand w/ fork and knife slamming on table)

i call this will be opened up in the Pro once Scorpio releases.

Deleted member 22585 · Nov 7, 2017

How much work is it really to implement downsampling for the devs? I try to understand what the issue is. Or is it just a simple "haven't thought of it"?

Buzz · Nov 7, 2017

It should be made a system wide setting. Maybe Sony will wake up and do this once enough people give them heat, specially after the release of X. Props to MS for having great features for X at launch. Sony like their other initiatives going with a half-hearted effort with Pro.

gebler · Nov 7, 2017

gebler said:
Note that 4K downsampled to 1080p actually introduces an extra, and possibly more demanding, performance case. You first have to do everything needed for the 4K mode, and then the downsampling as well, with extra costs in terms of processing, memory bandwidth, and memory footprint. XB1X has advantages in all those three areas, e.g. having 12 GB GDDR5 compared to the 8 GB on PS4 Pro, so reserving some of that for mandatory 4K->1080p downsampling may be an easier decision for them than it would be for Sony.

Planet said:
We had that theory disproved a few times already. Some games do offer Supersampling when connected to a 4K TV just set to 1080p. Others proved after a patch that there was no such problem after all.

Your logic is baffling. Proving existence of non-problematic games is not the same as disproving the existence of problematic games. Games are different with respect to resource utilization, and there being some games that can easily spare the resources for downsampling does not prove that is so for all games. And for a system-wide mandatory approach, it would obviously need to work for all games, not just for some.

SleepSmasher · Nov 7, 2017

gebler said:
Your logic is baffling. Proving existence of non-problematic games is not the same as disproving the existence of problematic games. Games are different with respect to resource utilization, and there being some games that can easily spare the resources for downsampling does not prove that is so for all games. And for a system-wide mandatory approach, it would obviously need to work for all games, not just for some.

Nah. I don't think there's an extra performance impact incurring in the background as well. Just like games using 4K DSR in Geforce cards connected to 1080p monitors perform exactly the same when running in native 4K with supported monitors.

Zvonimir Boban · Nov 7, 2017

The lack of downsampling on The Show was so annoying, especially coming off Horizon: Zero Dawn. It bummed me out way more than I could have expected.

Inuhanyou · Nov 7, 2017

My guess is that the downsampling options are limited because sony expected the dev to have a separate dedicated 1080p for the game and the 4K mode is cut off from that based on their initial SDK on how the "base mode"(1080 output) and the "4K mode"(4Koutput) works.

So its up to the dev to actually manually implement downsampling connecting the 4K mode to the 1080p mode. If that's the case i dont think there is anything Sony can do now about it, especially because games already use the 1080p mode for different functions.

Its a clearly inferior solution to the XB1X's implementation and the exact opposite in terms of how it works. XB1X will downsample any game automatically and its up to the dev to add different options for each mode. PS4P automatically supports different options for both 4K and 1080p output modes and its up to the dev to support downsampling.

Vashetti · Nov 7, 2017

felipepl said:
Nah. I don't think there's an extra performance impact incurring in the background as well. Just like games using 4K DSR in Geforce cards connected to 1080p monitors perform exactly the same when running in native 4K with supported monitors.

This. Set your OG PS4 to 720p, those 900p and 1080p games don't change their rendering resolution to 720p, they continue to operate normally, downsampling to 720p at no performance cost.

It's no issue for the Pro to downsample a 1080p+ resolution down to a 1080p display.

ManatuBear · Nov 7, 2017

Didn't Outlast 2 devs explained why there is no downscaling, and that they tried but found that the current solution works better? Maybe that should be added to the OP.

Vipu · Nov 7, 2017

If you want to downsample just get pc and you can downsample from 16k to 4k or whatever you want.

Polk · Nov 7, 2017

Vipu said:
If you want to downsample just get pc and you can downsample from 16k to 4k or whatever you want.

So how do I downample Last Guardian or Kingdom Hearts on my PC?
Your advice adds nothing to this thread.

Fukuzatsu · Nov 7, 2017

Supersampling should indeed be built in as a factor of a patch that offers higher resolutions, but I also hope that there would be a built-in way to, say, force 1080p in cases where that can stabilise performance.

More than either of these though, I wish PS4 Pro offered some kind of Anisotropic filtering benefit to unpatched games. Even if not at 16x like the XBOX, 4x or 8x would be appreciated.

Brown Intruder · Nov 7, 2017

Fisty said:
It only makes the Pro "look bad" to people that have no clue about any of this stuff, aka the people who can't even tell the difference between 1800p downsampled to 1080p and 1080p native. This is a dev issue

Come on. This is a joke post surely? Devs don't need to do anything on the x

Planet · Nov 7, 2017

gebler said:
Your logic is baffling.

You can't prove that something will never exist under any circumstances. The examples of it not being any problem at all are meant to indicate that it is very probably not a general matter. Those 4GB extra RAM of the Xbox One X are sure useful to store that extra <8MB of uncompressed image data, if storing that in memory is even neccessary.

Stuff modern graphics cards do to produce the images we see is way more complex that just up- or downscaling a flat image. Sadly, I can't provide any numbers, but I bet the Pro GPU could do that a ridiculous number of times per frame.

gebler · Nov 7, 2017

felipepl said:
Nah. I don't think there's an extra performance impact incurring in the background as well. Just like games using 4K DSR in Geforce cards connected to 1080p monitors perform exactly the same when running in native 4K with supported monitors.

Vashetti said:
This. Set your OG PS4 to 720p, those 900p and 1080p games don't change their rendering resolution to 720p, they continue to operate normally, downsampling to 720p at no performance cost.

It's no issue for the Pro to downsample a 1080p+ resolution down to a 1080p display.

Are you sure that the scaler resources responsible for zero-cost 1080p->720p downsampling are also capable of zero-cost 4K->1080p downsampling? And that they are actually available for that purpose, and not somehow involved with producing 4K output from a sub-4K rendering resolution?

black070 · Nov 7, 2017

I'm surprised Digital Foundry haven't asked any devs about it, even for example Guerilla Games when they were over to visit - a simple question like how difficult was it to implement downsampling for Horizon Zero Dawn and why they think a few games aren't enabling it would atleast give a faint justification for it.

Lnds500 · Nov 7, 2017

black070 said:
I'm surprised Digital Foundry haven't asked any devs about it, even for example Guerilla Games when they were over to visit - a simple question like how difficult was it to implement downsampling for Horizon Zero Dawn and why they think a few games aren't enabling it would atleast give a faint justification for it.

I believe there might be a stupid NDA involved. Developers have been asked left and right about this and everyone simple refuses to acknowledge why they are not supporting it. DF as well.

BradleyLove · Nov 7, 2017

Would something like 1440p upscaled to 4K and then downsampled to 1080p look worse than 1080p native? It certainly can't look as good as 1440p direct to 1080p.

Perhaps this is why an OS level setting isn't available?

impact · Nov 7, 2017

BradleyLove said:
Would something like 1440p upscaled to 4K and then downsampled to 1080p look worse than 1080p native?

No

The reason it's not available at an OS level is because Sony fucked up.

PS4 Pro/PS5 - Native Supersampling Omissions |OT|

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