OP
OP
And I want people to understand, being ignorant is OK.
It's the apathy and dismissal that is incredibly frustrating.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Why do so many liberals ability to care stop at trans people?
- Thread starter Cream
- Start date
- Status
It's the apathy and dismissal that is incredibly frustrating.
You know what's sad? oldGAF/ERA might be the most trans friendly places in the whole internet from what I've seen.
Hell, I read a lot about how this place is controlled by trans individuals and shit like that, which is BS but yeah, it probably doesn't get better than this place atm.
Hell, I read a lot about how this place is controlled by trans individuals and shit like that, which is BS but yeah, it probably doesn't get better than this place atm.
Draw more attention to the people doing it in specific threads instead of creating a thread that's essentially calling this forum transphobic. The majority here are on your side, and it feels like you almost want to alienate them just to make a point.
I am going to speculate here as someone who learned about everything to do with someone being transgender from reading discussions and the posts I read on NeoGAF.
I only really learned or thought about these things after graduating high school in 2010.
In High School, there really wasn't anyone talking or educating people about being transgender. There is a huge generational thing where people are just ignorant of what it means.
I feel like most adults you would run into would just impress on you that being gay was something you didn't want to be. Or make jokes about "liking girls."
I learned more about being accepting of homosexuality from my Catholic Sunday School teacher than Health Ed.
People don't really have a great understanding of what being transgender is. They conflate it with things like drag and think its just about someone dressing up as a different gender.
I think it's hard for people to try to explain to someone what someone who feels the way they do feels. I can explain it to someone as a person who is foreign or doesn't truly understand, but many people truly don't want to understand.
Most people only really change their stances on things if it becomes socially unacceptable to hold a position. It hasn't become en vogue to be disgusted by someone spewing out ignorance on transgender issues. Some places you go, this may be the case, but it's not everywhere, and it definitely wasn't the case even five years ago.
I think in some parts it's due to people not knowing, but in other ways it's about people being cruel to someone who is different or living outside of their norm.
I only really learned or thought about these things after graduating high school in 2010.
In High School, there really wasn't anyone talking or educating people about being transgender. There is a huge generational thing where people are just ignorant of what it means.
I feel like most adults you would run into would just impress on you that being gay was something you didn't want to be. Or make jokes about "liking girls."
I learned more about being accepting of homosexuality from my Catholic Sunday School teacher than Health Ed.
People don't really have a great understanding of what being transgender is. They conflate it with things like drag and think its just about someone dressing up as a different gender.
I think it's hard for people to try to explain to someone what someone who feels the way they do feels. I can explain it to someone as a person who is foreign or doesn't truly understand, but many people truly don't want to understand.
Most people only really change their stances on things if it becomes socially unacceptable to hold a position. It hasn't become en vogue to be disgusted by someone spewing out ignorance on transgender issues. Some places you go, this may be the case, but it's not everywhere, and it definitely wasn't the case even five years ago.
I think in some parts it's due to people not knowing, but in other ways it's about people being cruel to someone who is different or living outside of their norm.
I will say I think ERA is better about it, but still a lot of progress could be made. But it's not the moderation I have an issue with, it's more things like this thread where multiple trans people( I am cis by the way, don't want anyone getting confused and thinking I am pretending about who I am) and others like me all share this concern and most the other posts are brushing it off or saying it's an imaginary issue.
I think a lot of people are simply ignorant of how bad trans people have it. A lot of Americans are unaware that sexual orientation and gender identity aren't protected classes.
Plus there are the people who don't understand what being trans is.
No excuses for that JK Rowling thread though. That was some BS and those posters should be ashamed.
To be clear, no moderation decisions on trans issues are made without consulting trans members on staff. Most of those decisions are actually made by trans members on staff. We have had many conversations with members on these topics and yes, our inboxes remain open. Please also do not drag mod grievances into this topic or it will have to be closed.
OP
OP
User banned (permanent): Ignoring mod warnings, tagging other members with intent to provoke, long history of infractions for hostility
Lord Brady Rembrandt incogneato are three posters I can think of off the top of my head who have been blatantly transphobic and dismissive of trans issues and the fact that they are all still hear despite this being acknowledged by many is appalling.
That's right I'm naming names I'm done playing nice
I want these posters to come in here and fucking defend themselves
Those of us who post in those threads know who they are, Cream. Doing this is just going to get the thread locked when there's a lot more conversation that could be had instead of trying to start fights with those people
You should just point them towards the Gervais thread. It's full of downplaying and/or complete dismissal of transphobia.
I can only speak for myself.
I'll acknowledge that while I'm not the most active poster I noticed that I actually don't engage people in trans related threads.
I'll try to do better.
From my PoV, there is no way to be too harsh to anyone being ok with or engaging in discrimination in any way against trans people.
I'll acknowledge that while I'm not the most active poster I noticed that I actually don't engage people in trans related threads.
I'll try to do better.
From my PoV, there is no way to be too harsh to anyone being ok with or engaging in discrimination in any way against trans people.
I wish I had an answer, but I honestly don't know. I think it's mostly apathy for sure.
For me, I want to be allies to the LGBTQ community, but I don't feel it's my place to speak for them. As a black man, I often feel like my voice as an ally doesn't have the same effect as a straight white male ally, or a trans ally of course.
I get outraged and appalled at the injustices I see perpetrated against trans people and the LGBT community, but I admit I feel ignorant on how to express it in the same way I'm able to express my outrage about the topics that hit close to home for me. I have family and friends that are a part of the LGBTQ community, and I stand with them, I just don't feel confident in speaking with authority about what they face. I want to be a better ally, and I'm not sure how. And that goes for all of the groups I try to be an ally to (other marginalized groups like women, immigrants, Muslims, the LGBTQ community, etc etc). In my eyes, these communities are in much the same boat, and I feel like our successes can boost one another, but again, I don't know how to be an effective, supportive ally beyond speaking out when I can, donating to organizations when I can, and being an attentive and empathetic ear when I can.
Great OP, by the way.
For me, I want to be allies to the LGBTQ community, but I don't feel it's my place to speak for them. As a black man, I often feel like my voice as an ally doesn't have the same effect as a straight white male ally, or a trans ally of course.
I get outraged and appalled at the injustices I see perpetrated against trans people and the LGBT community, but I admit I feel ignorant on how to express it in the same way I'm able to express my outrage about the topics that hit close to home for me. I have family and friends that are a part of the LGBTQ community, and I stand with them, I just don't feel confident in speaking with authority about what they face. I want to be a better ally, and I'm not sure how. And that goes for all of the groups I try to be an ally to (other marginalized groups like women, immigrants, Muslims, the LGBTQ community, etc etc). In my eyes, these communities are in much the same boat, and I feel like our successes can boost one another, but again, I don't know how to be an effective, supportive ally beyond speaking out when I can, donating to organizations when I can, and being an attentive and empathetic ear when I can.
Great OP, by the way.
The problem is that, if they weren't here there wouldn't be any problems, this topic wouldn't exist in this particular version.
A dialogue must be opened about the plight of Trans people, and especially Trans minorities, who are, especially in the Black community, more vulnerable and mistreated than others and go pretty much ignored.
It's just sad that we have to have it about this website, because this place was supposed to be different.
I can't see having these people around being beneficial to the community, you aren't going to change them, and they make other people here feel unsafe.
Honestly, there are many underlying issues here to this community that it disturbs me that they are problems at all.
I appreciate you naming names, but are those guys really liberals? The first 2 names are names I've seen posting..... questionable..... shit about all kinds of social issues.
Because trans people quite literally exist within the margins of society.
People have female family and friends, they either have, or are close to people who have kids who are potential victims of a shooting, and whilst it's trickier with race, most people work with minorities or at least see and interact with them in their day to day lives.
What that means is that the persecution of any of those groups is real and confronting.
By contrast the trans community is so small and relatively invisible. Add to that the fact that being born black or female is something people understand whereas many people still have difficulty wrapping their head around being transgender.
It's harder to relate to and thus care about for many.
People have female family and friends, they either have, or are close to people who have kids who are potential victims of a shooting, and whilst it's trickier with race, most people work with minorities or at least see and interact with them in their day to day lives.
What that means is that the persecution of any of those groups is real and confronting.
By contrast the trans community is so small and relatively invisible. Add to that the fact that being born black or female is something people understand whereas many people still have difficulty wrapping their head around being transgender.
It's harder to relate to and thus care about for many.
I don't think it's that not many liberals care but rather, it can be a touchy subject and you don't want to chime in on an issue you know so little about for fear of offending.
If for example we take a look at the bathroom bill, I personally am not bothered if a trans person (pre or post-op) is using the same restroom as me. Now if I pull my personal feelings out of the situation and try to look at it from everyone's (especially a woman's) perspective, I can see why someone may feel uncomfortable about a person who hasn't had gender reassignment surgery being within their safe space.
If for example we take a look at the bathroom bill, I personally am not bothered if a trans person (pre or post-op) is using the same restroom as me. Now if I pull my personal feelings out of the situation and try to look at it from everyone's (especially a woman's) perspective, I can see why someone may feel uncomfortable about a person who hasn't had gender reassignment surgery being within their safe space.
You are misinterpreting what I said and putting words in my mouth. I didn't say you should or shouldn't be treated with respect.
This thread is about apathy, i.e. people turn a blind eye and/or ignore threads. My comment reflected that, trans concerns are new to the majority of individuals out there. They don't know exactly how to respond because they are ignorant of the issue so they typically just don't respond. That doesn't mean they don't care, if you or anyone else is being disrespected then that isn't okay and shouldn't be tolerated...especially on this forum.
This is the biggest issue i have. People who claim to be allies would rather just spout whatever nonsense they made up than sit and listen and be educated. So few seek it out and contribute that way. Most threads about transgender issues are almost entirely trans members vs other members and we can't keep this up because getting in arguments about your humanity is draining.
Quite frankly ignorance isn't an excuse with the internet existing and specifically transgender people here willing to educate them.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/transgender-101.25656/
For everyone who has been asking about education, here you go. This is the Transgender 101 thread.
For everyone who has been asking about education, here you go. This is the Transgender 101 thread.
For me at least, I find it best to do more listening instead of talking when it comes to issues like this. I'm a straight cisgender male, so when it really comes down to it, my opinions on transgender topics don't matter as much as someone who is transgendered. At least that's how I feel.
Maybe it is more important that I speak up about these issues. I'm really not sure, and I don't want to step on toes. But I definitely agree society in general needs to be more supportive of transgendered people and their issues, instead of just allowing them to be and not caring about them. Or worse, being completely intolerable.
Seriously, please use this thread if you have any questions at all. I know that some people are worried about offending when they see threads about trans people on the forum. That's why I made that thread, as a place for you to ask any questions and to learn.
This needs to be pinned and probably required reading for membership.
If anybody truly believes the community is objectively pro-trans, feel free to look at any thread about trans individuals dating., either on this site or the old one. It gets bigoted quick with the misgendering and insecure posters thinking people are out to trick them.
It's really easy to supportive of trans issues in broader conversations. People feel good to say it. But when it comes to recognizing specifics, or talking about real lives, the cracks start to show more and more.
It's really easy to supportive of trans issues in broader conversations. People feel good to say it. But when it comes to recognizing specifics, or talking about real lives, the cracks start to show more and more.
This is where I land on it. I'm ignorant to the issues and if I mis-speak I'll get pounced on so I just stay out of those discussions. I have a trans cousin who I love dearly and I do everything I can to support her, but that doesn't give me carte blanche to speak on issues that 1. are very complex, 2. that I have very little personal experience with and 3. are very emotionally charged. I leave it to people who are better equipped to have those discussions than me.
I would second this and any other minority 101 thread to be in the ToS for quick reference.
Something along the lines of:
"If you are unsure at all about a statement you are about to make about a protected class or minority, please consult the 101 thread on that topic prior to posting."
I'd agree with this. Transgender rights have only become mainstream very recently. Like, last couple of years.
I got a notification that I was tagged in this thread? But it brought me to the post and it was spelled differently? Not sure what's going on, I'm not against anyone
she probably misspelled the name of the different poster initially and changed it in an edit
don't worry about it.
Yeah, like others said, she probably just misspelled it, you're good
Ah thanks everyone. Yeah I had to turn off that Gervais Netflix show, that was some nasty shit he said. Made me feel gross just listening to it
This forum seems fine on trans issues from what I've seen. There is not a lot of discussion to be had among controversial issues as saying the wrong thing gets moderated. Seems OP wants to force everyone to post in overwhelming agreement in every trans tread that gets created and I don't even see what that would accomplish. People realize these things like Trump banning trans people are wrong and backwards. If people don't have anything to add to the conversation other than 'Fuck Trump' or 'Fuck cops' then they aren't going to post, simple as. And the few who do post; makes it seem as if people don't care when you say that they aren't posting the correct way even if they are trying to be supportive in trans topics.
Every community can be better when it comes to fostering tolerance and understanding of social issues. Every person can as well. While Era is better than many other online communities out there when it comes to trans issues, that should never be construed as "good enough".
One of my co-workers is both trans and black. I work with him on a daily basis and he's an amazing individual. I can't even fathom the challenges he's had to deal with as a Caucasian cisgendered heterosexual male but I treat him with the same level of respect and attention I afford everyone else and I hope that's enough. I have a simple philosophy of treating everyone else how I'd like to be treated in return if I was in their shoes and it's a philosophy that has gotten me through life rather effectively.
I've had many trans co-workers and peers over the years. I've also had the opportunity to work a considerable amount of time in Manila where the Filipino culture is much more accepting and welcoming of its transgender population which I think is awesome. I actually feel guilty that I haven't had any close friends who are trans. I'm pretty reserved when it comes to close friendships so it's not like I'm actively being exclusionary but I think it's something I can improve on going forward. Especially if we share a host of common interests.
I made an active point of ripping on the Simpsons writing staff for including an insensitive transphobic joke in one of their most recent episodes. If anything, I made a show of being overly reactionary but I felt it was warranted given the nature of the gag and how thoughtless and insensitive it was to include in 2018. I know they saw it but my reaction was largely isolated and most everyone else in the Simpsons fan community barely even mentioned it but I'd like to think my outrage carried some extra weight given that I've been active in the show's online fandom for a quarter of a century now and that they'll think better about milking that area for laughs in the future. Cecily Strong played a lesbian in the last episode and they played that straight and didn't milk it for comedy and THAT was considered forward progress for them. So yeah, a franchise I champion has some work to do on that front as well.
I know that I can be better on this issue and will strive to do so... but I can also understand that a good number of folks on Era haven't even had the level of exposure I've had in terms of engaging the trans community for whom it is largely something they've not been faced with first-hand. So it's not going to get better overnight. But I encourage you to continue to be vigilant, continue to be outspoken and to not be afraid to call out transphobic views or intolerance in threads when it surfaces - both with the offenders themselves when a dialogue can still make a difference and with the moderators via the report function when it cannot.
One of my co-workers is both trans and black. I work with him on a daily basis and he's an amazing individual. I can't even fathom the challenges he's had to deal with as a Caucasian cisgendered heterosexual male but I treat him with the same level of respect and attention I afford everyone else and I hope that's enough. I have a simple philosophy of treating everyone else how I'd like to be treated in return if I was in their shoes and it's a philosophy that has gotten me through life rather effectively.
I've had many trans co-workers and peers over the years. I've also had the opportunity to work a considerable amount of time in Manila where the Filipino culture is much more accepting and welcoming of its transgender population which I think is awesome. I actually feel guilty that I haven't had any close friends who are trans. I'm pretty reserved when it comes to close friendships so it's not like I'm actively being exclusionary but I think it's something I can improve on going forward. Especially if we share a host of common interests.
I made an active point of ripping on the Simpsons writing staff for including an insensitive transphobic joke in one of their most recent episodes. If anything, I made a show of being overly reactionary but I felt it was warranted given the nature of the gag and how thoughtless and insensitive it was to include in 2018. I know they saw it but my reaction was largely isolated and most everyone else in the Simpsons fan community barely even mentioned it but I'd like to think my outrage carried some extra weight given that I've been active in the show's online fandom for a quarter of a century now and that they'll think better about milking that area for laughs in the future. Cecily Strong played a lesbian in the last episode and they played that straight and didn't milk it for comedy and THAT was considered forward progress for them. So yeah, a franchise I champion has some work to do on that front as well.
I know that I can be better on this issue and will strive to do so... but I can also understand that a good number of folks on Era haven't even had the level of exposure I've had in terms of engaging the trans community for whom it is largely something they've not been faced with first-hand. So it's not going to get better overnight. But I encourage you to continue to be vigilant, continue to be outspoken and to not be afraid to call out transphobic views or intolerance in threads when it surfaces - both with the offenders themselves when a dialogue can still make a difference and with the moderators via the report function when it cannot.
We take things on a case by case basis – if we believe there's an opportunity to educate someone who is just ignorant or misinformed, then we're willing to see if they can learn better. We try our best to make the right call, but if future behavior proves us wrong we take steps to correct that.
We're human, we're trying, and we want a better community and better world just like you do.
We're human, we're trying, and we want a better community and better world just like you do.
I think the vast majority of people have never seen, yet alone met, a transgender person so it's basically out of sight, out of mind until a story breaks out that covers one in the mainstream like Caitilyn Jenner and only confirms their bias/prejudice of them being "Freaks" and another example of Hollyweird.
Yeah, as someone who has never had any meaningful exposure to someone who identifies as trans (as far as I know) it is sometimes hard to know how to engage in discussion on the topic.
It isn't apathy. It is that I would rather than fuck up so I mostly avoid injecting myself into the discussion too deeply.
This is what I've always felt about ERA (and GAF before the apocalypse exposed the truth) it's just sad to see someone feel so distressed about an issue get the boot when they are so clearly upset about something so central to their own identity.
Obviously I'm not a mod, so I don't have all the info, so take my reaction with the skepticism it deserves.
I agree with those answers. Apathy and lack of experience / personnal involvement.
In my personal case, I feel more emotionally involved when I read about tragedies that impact children.
If I were to exaggerate a little, I don't really care about any news that doesn't impact me directly. And I think a lot of people are like that. There's racism and there's transphobia but at some point there's also a lot of pure asshole-ness in that if its not about us, then whatever.
Gentle note: "transgendered" is generally not considered the most acceptable way to refer to trans people. Transgender is the more socially acceptable term, as is just trans.
Yeah, I noticed it sounded odd when I read my post again. I'm really sorry, I have edited it.
I'm also ignorant when it comes to topics like these.
If you want to dive in, just be upfront that you don't know much about trans issues and that you're actually asking questions. The people that usually catch the most flak from us are the people who come in saying things in a matter of fact tone that just aren't right in any way. Its okay to admit that you're ignorant about something, and a lot of us really are willing to explain things in those threads
Ultimately.
People who aren't part of a struggle will never be part of the struggle. Those people discussing it on internet gaming forums, or getting mad about how they aren't, isn't going to do a ton for these people and their problems either.
I didn't know Cream was trans. I definitely misgendered her once w/o knowing and now I feel like an ass. Damn. Also, wow she jumped out the window to snap on a few tools? :(
The answer to her question was that the liberal limit means a lot of liberals stop caring pretty quickly if something doesn't affect them. In general, without "contact" people can find it easy to not care. You can get riled up about black issues 'cause you know a bunch of black people, gay people etc. etc. Yes, we should all care about other human beings because they're human beings. I wish it worked that way for everyone.
I can't even say I'm exempt. My last girlfriend (forever and ever ago) was trans, and one of my best friends right out of college was too. It's entirely possible (probable, even) that that "contact" is why I care a lot more. For sure I wasn't aware of how anything in the LGBT community worked until my ex explained some shit to me.
The answer to her question was that the liberal limit means a lot of liberals stop caring pretty quickly if something doesn't affect them. In general, without "contact" people can find it easy to not care. You can get riled up about black issues 'cause you know a bunch of black people, gay people etc. etc. Yes, we should all care about other human beings because they're human beings. I wish it worked that way for everyone.
I can't even say I'm exempt. My last girlfriend (forever and ever ago) was trans, and one of my best friends right out of college was too. It's entirely possible (probable, even) that that "contact" is why I care a lot more. For sure I wasn't aware of how anything in the LGBT community worked until my ex explained some shit to me.
- Status