Why do people feel so apathetic towards transgender issues?

Thank you for facilitating this discussion Ket.

Why do people not care about the Syrians?

Why does no one know whats going on in Latin America?

Its because they have to contact with the people involved.

Ive been privileged to know one trans individual but most people have never or never will meet someone like that.

And so without that personal connection they then work to look after themselves.

Their favorite comedians, actors, etc then take priority.

Its not fair, but over time perhaps trans issues will become more accepted. Canadas govt is taking a top down approach which we will have to see if it makes a significant difference.

As was mentioned in the previous thread, I doubt many posters know anybody in a friendly capacity who is trans.

It isn't a great excuse anyway for the lack of care.

From the recently closed topic, it's as much a matter as lack of education as a lack of first hand experience with actual trans people.

It's probably not and will never be an explanation you'll like but it's the truth for now and I believe the moderation team does a good job ending the actual trolls and giving warnings to others that can learn from mistakes and misconceptions.

I think there needs to be more clear cut explanations so people understand the situations better. Not saying that's the only thing required as there are many more things that need to be done, but I feel having a clear understanding of what the issues are and information on trans in-general would help.

Kokonoe said:

I think there needs to be more clear cut explanations so people understand the situations better. Not saying that's the only thing required as there are many more things that need to be done, but I feel having a clear understanding of what the issues are and information on trans in-general would help.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

And there's a wonderful thread for this:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/transgender-101.25656/

I do care, but I try to not post in threads where my only response is gonna be that sucks, I hope this gets better. Which can come off as apathetic, but isn't really the intention.

Ketkat said:

Well, sure. I do understand the lack of exposure that a lot of people have to it. But, I feel like that should be shifting more than it already has. We've had TV shows that are actually focusing on trans people now. We've had the bathroom bill controversies, as well as the military ban that were both featured pretty prominently. I'm definitely looking at this from a more USA point of view, but people still seem as apathetic as ever and don't seem to really care about what's actually affecting us.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

There's a huge difference knowing about someone (through TV, movies, etc), and knowing someone, in terms of how it relates to empathy and understanding. Like, I try my hardest to be empathetic to everyone, but most people aren't gonna want to put that effort in.

Robin said:

And there's a wonderful thread for this:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/transgender-101.25656/

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I myself "get" it, but most people aren't going to put into the effort to read a thread like that. I think the thread is beneficial, but engaging with people one on one with straight to the point information is more effective.

Because they don't care and aren't affected by any of it.

Even worse, the right or religious leaders use it as a weapon to make it seem like transgender stuff is destroying society, this happens a lot in South America with the "Gender Ideology" bullshit they created.

Also, people aren't educated at all about the topic, before GAF/ERA, I didn't know shit about trans issues and I'm a member of the LGBT community, just think about how poorly educated people are that aren't even part of it.

Even worse, people saying trans activists are too aggressive as a way to dismiss them, like we queer people aren't sick of being discriminated.

It's still jarring for me (admittedly as someone who is cis, or at the least only questioning) to see the relative level of apathy here, because I do feel like the moderation I've seen has been pretty good about dealing with transphobia (among other issues) quickly. So I would hope it would be clear that it's a big deal but... no, people don't seem to get it.

It's at best... disappointing, I guess? That people who seem to be pretty left leaning (or at least claim to be) go into such threads, and then either post a ton while not really knowing what they're talking about, or be weirdly silent when something specifically about trans people comes up, yeah. And I would think even people who don't want to dig through the questions thread would want to at least put in some time, and by that I mean 5 minutes on Google a single time, to make sure they have terminology right for talking about people they claim to care about, but that tends not to happen either.

I think it's a lack of understanding borne of a lack of context. Most people don't know a trans person, and therefore their understanding of the issues trans people face is dictated almost entirely through strangers on the internet, if even that. And honestly...a lot of people, liberals included, just don't care enough to do the research on issues that don't directly effect them.

I've been lucky enough to have a friend who's been helping educate me on trans issues as he's finished transitioning, but even with that information I know I don't have much valuable to offer in these discussions aside from token support and anger at the people actively seeking to make things worse for trans people.

I'm hoping it'll get better soon.

People were mainly apathetic towards gay people until from a couple decades ago, to now, where I feel like the attitude is more accepting rather than a shrug.

More people seem to be coming out as transgender, and also at a younger age. I never knew anyone that identified as transgender growing up. More exposure should hopefully help things.

Empathy for people who you are not familiar with separates good people from great people.

I have only known one transgender person, and perhaps if I didn't, i wouldn't truly be able to internalize what transgender people go through every day. I like to believe that I would still be a good and decent person towards them, but knowing something makes it much easier.

In the cultural wastelands of rural America, and sheltered within homogenous churches and schools and civix centers, people demonize people based on anything and everything. If they got to know more transgender folks, I am positive most people would grow from it. Sure there are a few who would hold onto and perhaps even amplify their hate, but not most.

I believe in the humanity of humanity.

Just because people are progressive doesn't make them the paragon of every virtue. They are still people and the simple fact is they don't change until they are personally touched by something. They need a friend, family member, student, co-worker, etc. in their circle to understand. Apathy is human nature.

I think part of it is people feeling entitled to an opinion when it comes to scientific/medical issues. It honestly doesn't matter if you personally believe trans people are not "real" or whatever, in the same way it wouldn't matter if you thought vaccines cause autism.

I understand the "lack of personal experience" argument, but while I personally have never had (AFAIK) a trans friend/classmate/coworker/etc. I still don't feel the need to attack trans people's identity or whatever. It feels to me like people just need to be jerks to other people.

Ketkat said:

Well, sure. I do understand the lack of exposure that a lot of people have to it. But, I feel like that should be shifting more than it already has. We've had TV shows that are actually focusing on trans people now. We've had the bathroom bill controversies, as well as the military ban that were both featured pretty prominently. I'm definitely looking at this from a more USA point of view, but people still seem as apathetic as ever and don't seem to really care about what's actually affecting us.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Comong from a USA perspective you should also know of, to put it this way, the social issue hierarchy that the US has.

ppl seem to latch onto larger collective movements like racial inequality or gun violence and that collective movement isnt there yet for trans issues.

Canada has less problems and so we can focus on the more marginalized.

Edit Also the effort that it takes to fight white evangelicals seems hard af

I think that most people will only activly engage in issues that they have a personal stake in.

People have a limited amount of resources to give for issues. So they will prioritize those resources according to what issues they care about.

It'll get better as time goes on. Trans people will always be looked at as different, but most of society will inevitably see them for what they really are, people who are trying to improve their lives.

I'll also say I just sorta wonder what sort of other online communities liberal/left people on here who aren't as familiar with trans people are a part of.

Maybe it's because I have used Twitter (and, during high school, Tumblr) for so long but I'm absolutely surrounded by trans people, particularly trans women, in the online communities I'm in (even if it's vaguely defined spaces, as tends to be the case on Twitter). It's actually kinda weird for me to think about what spaces people are in where that's not the case, since at least on Twitter that's going to be true for the left-leaning gaming journalism/criticism/development community?

Are we considering the "I don't care how you live your life, do you" types regarding trans people apathetic, or even negative? Because I don't think that's unreasonable from someone who might've never even encountered a trans person in their life so long as they don't try voting for policies that harm the security of LGBTQ civil rights. Not ideal, but kind of understandable given what we know about how environment and life experiences shape people's attitudes. It would be weird for someone to willingly put effort into being apathetic on this though, lol, which I've seen examples of too.

I don't know any trans people so I guess its harder for me to sympathize? I guess I'm a selfish person in that regard. Like I'm vaguely aware that there are problems in Syria but I haven't done anything about it or educated myself on the topic.

awareness is rather new,

the only way that I came about understand it is by working with one. And that was barely 5 years ago.
Before 2012, I didn't know what a transgender was.

I know from my perspective:

I've got about 5 or 6 fights in me a week, and I end up spending all of those every week. I try to keep a slot open on my dance card for Trans issues, but I admittedly can't go as hard as I would like to as someone who tries to be an ally, as I do on other subjects, in that arena for no better reason than the fact that I am fighting for what I believe is right as opposed to fighting for my and my family's very life as I do in other topics.

Statistics.

It literally comes down to the fact that the trans community is so incredibly small (approx 0.6% in the US). The vast majority of the population have no connection to the trans community or trans issues; it simply doesn't factor in the day to day life for the majority of people. American Indians are by far one of the most marginalized groups living in the United States. They make up about 2% of the population, and that is still almost 4 times the trans population.

r i p

I don't really participate in threads, but I am constantly trying to check my family on this shit. The amount of ignorance towards trans issues is astounding. I don't know why it's so hard to simply give a person the bare minimum level of respect. If a person identifies as a woman or man, then that's how you should address them. I just can't seem to make my family understand though. I think it's because they have no interactions with trans folk. They shouldn't need that to have empathy, but unfortunately, that's how it works for many.

I have nothing to add to the conversation.

I think it's lack of empaty. I'm not trans, but gender identity is important for me (I'm bigender), so I won't say uniformed thoughts about trans matters (and about any topic, if that count), which sadly is something I see a lot here, either trolls who just want to push the limits of conversation in the forum or genuine people who want help but lack sensibility to express their ideas.

One local TV channel had a representative of transgender community during afternoon hours and people were sending complaints

Apparently such topics should be discussed at late night slots

Empathy Gap. People only care about issues that directly affect them. The vast majority of people aren't trans and don't know anyone who is.

Its the reason why gun control is the #1 pet issue for limousine liberals, despite it being responsible for far, far fewer deaths in this country than our abysmal healthcare system and extreme wealth inequality.

Ketkat said:

For those of you who are making the argument that its difficult for you to sympathize because you don't know any trans people, what do you propose we do about that? While more people than ever are becoming more comfortable coming out as trans, we're still a pretty small minority. We're not going to just suddenly spring up everywhere, so if that's the main issue, then I'm not sure what would make you care more.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I don't think it is necessarily difficult to sympathize, that is basically human nature. If people are getting shit on you obviously don't want that. I think the broader issue is people just don't get involved in any issue that doesn't personally effect them. It is getting better, I know it isn't comforting but you are just going to have to give it time. Civil rights and everything that comes with it isn't something that happens quickly.

As an aside, I also think it is part of human nature to become rigid at being scolded. Constantly being pushed to move faster or lambasted because you aren't where someone else wants you to be causes people to want to disengage and retreat. I'll say it, I feel like I'm an ally, I want to be. I couldn't imagine having to deal with the prejudice that comes with being transgender. However, I have a part of me that that just doesn't deal well with constantly being criticized because I'm not living up to some expectation.

I was nervous as hell this year when I was told I was going to have a transgender kid in my class. I was so fucking worried that I was going to fuck up. The student and their counselor sent me an email about using the proper name, pronouns, etc. Its been nearly an entire school year and I still get worried as I take attendance. I love the student; he is amazing, intelligent, thoughtful, funny, engaging, exceptionally mature, and a joy to be around. With all that said, it is still exceedingly new and it scares the shit out of me.

It'll take time but will progress

Ketkat said:

People on the left are willing to do this for other minorities, but it always feels like we're the ones left out in the cold having to deal with it ourselves.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Keep this in mind..the black population can say this every day, despite a civil war, the civil rights movement, and a black president. Not to say the trans community isn't as important, but don't act surprised.

The good thing is that the liberals, while not really being exposed to transgender issues, are open to it—But, in general, there isn't much relatable context in society to make a serious consideration in the government (in a positive sense).. Trump uses it as a lifeline to rally his 30%.

Ketkat said:

That kind of attitude would definitely be apathetic. They're not going to stop us from anything that we're doing, but at the same time, they're not going to help us with any of the issues that we're facing. And while they aren't directly causing negative things to happen to us, we just can't solve all of these problems on our own. We really do need the help of allies in order to solve a lot of the issues that trans people face.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Maybe I'm cynical, but at this point I'd feel plenty content with most of the voting public opting for centrist apathy and committing to not actively fucking our shit up and further damaging our quality of life. If that means I have to play ball and be more accepting of people who don't care about me as much as I would like and who I can't completely agree with, whatever. Obviously if you're all-in with homophobia in 2018 and/or itching for that mid-term GOP vote I can safely say fuck off, but, personally speaking, if you're at least considering change and voting for a liberal candidate and make an effort to want to be a decent person I can find good in you.

Ketkat said:

Well, sure. I do understand the lack of exposure that a lot of people have to it. But, I feel like that should be shifting more than it already has. We've had TV shows that are actually focusing on trans people now. We've had the bathroom bill controversies, as well as the military ban that were both featured pretty prominently. I'm definitely looking at this from a more USA point of view, but people still seem as apathetic as ever and don't seem to really care about what's actually affecting us.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

GLAAD believes positive visibility has actually decreased.

Policies and headlines ran that were anti-LGBTQ including the President's proposed ban on transgender people entering the U.S.military, confirmation of a Supreme Court justice opposed to marriage equality, and the passage of a state law in Mississippi which allows businesses to legally deny service to LGBTQ families. LGBTQ people fell victims to violence in Chechnya, Egypt, Indonesia, and the U.S.mourned the death of at least 26 transgender women. LGBTQ visibility slipped in news and entertainment media – Americans can no longer see LGBTQ stories that change hearts and minds with the same frequency. Closing the gap to full acceptance of LGBTQ people will not come from legislation on or judicial decisions alone, but from a deeper understanding and empathy for LGBTQ people.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

And from their report about representation in TV entertainment

This season will see a welcome increase in the number of transgender characters in scripted television, including for the first time, trans characters who are non-binary. However, there is still a very long way to go before the trans community is fully represented on TV. Of the 329 regular and recurring LGBTQ characters on broadcast, cable, and streaming programs, only 17 (five percent) are transgender. (Nine of these characters are returning from last year's report.) This is a one-percentage point decrease from last year, but an increase of one character. One of these 17 trans characters will not be returning next year due to series cancellation, leaving 16 transgender characters in the ongoing season.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Part of it is as explained in the other tread is connection to the issues directly I guess. As someone pointed out about the Rhogiya people the discussion was more limited. You can see the differences in thread sizes from this forum (and even the prior one) on US centric issues and similar ones from smaller countries.

One thing that I've seen come up in my own family and friend groups is a fear of change or an unwillingness to reexamine things with a modern lens. I had one friend who was always supportive of me being trans, but when I happened to mention my disappointment with how transphobic Silence of the Lambs was, she went into a full meltdown, how I was overreacting, how Silence of the Lambs had nothing to do with transpeople. I was taken aback because I didn't really think I was on a soapbox, I wasn't lecturing, I just made a passing point when the movie was brought up. She didn't want to hurt my feelings, she "supported" me, but as soon as it was time to examine something that she liked, she was on the defensive and could not be wrong. A few days later she apologized to me and told me I was right, of course that movie was transphobic, and it wasn't something I was willing to let get in the way of our friendship anyway. But man, that little shake up we had was really disappointing and it really hurt me that night. She's my best friend and I didn't think I'd ever have to explain myself like that to her.

At the end of the day, it's just a movie. But I bring this story up because as a transperson, it feels like we have to defend ourselves 24/7. It's unending. I just wish that people who entered these topics with no skin in the game would realize that they get to leave the topic and go on with their lives, but we're still fighting for our right to exist every day.

I feel like a lot of people think their own capacity to care about issues is finite when they say things like they spend all their energy defending other things (commonly the things that more directly affect them). I think that's one of the big issues. The capacity to care is infinite. People don't run out of empathy like their car runs out of gas -- I think a lot of people are just afraid they're going to run out of time, or that they need to "prioritize" their concerns, when that just ends up leaving disenfranchised people up shit creek. It's a serious problem.

Relevant:

To be honest i think i fall into that gap between somewhere, trans issues are not something i can identify with in my own life so even if i was to read every article on it the subject ( and ive read a few that people post on here) i will still have nothing to positively contribute to the discussion. So i'd rather stay out of it then comment on the issue.

The same reason we in the west accept the syrian war or starvation in africa - You have never met someone affected

Also it really is a minority smaller than pretty much any minority - and larger minority groups still have big problem. Therefore lots of other issues are prioritized higher for most people

What does the trans community on Resetera want from posters when say a thread like the military ban one pops up? I got the impression from the last thread that when people say 'Fuck Trump' or 'that sucks', or 'This again?' or some other supportive comment that that isn't enough. But what is enough; how do you proceed with the discussion when everyone is pretty much in agreement that it's a shitty situation? The previous OP seemed disheartened that these posts only got to like 2 pages of responses - but what else was there to say that cis community members aren't saying or understanding?

As for celebrity transphobic threads I think it's a case of 'But what have you done for me lately.' As others have said, a poster with no real exposure or known trans persons in their lives probably looks at the situation like - 'Well JK Rowling is very famous and has given me these wonderful books I enjoy; surely she can't be a bad person, it must be a misunderstanding.' while in the same circumstance they may well admonish Ricky Gervis because they don't care for his works and if other people hate him for some transphobic comment well then obviously he sucks.

It may not be that the poster is transphobic or doesn't care about trans issues. But it's hard to view a respected celebrity in anything but a glowing light unless there is a mountain of evidence to the contrary. In JK Rowling's case most people don't even take twitter seriously enough as some sort of political statement that they don't care one way or another what some celebrity likes or retweets so long as they aren't actively spouting transphobic sentiment themselves.

So taking all that into account, when a trans person says - well why aren't you calling out so-n-so; it feels like an attack on the poster and it goes back to well what have YOU done for me lately, vs this celebrity. Hope that all makes sense.

Yeah... I live in Los Angeles and I don't have any transgender friends, nor any co workers, or acquaintances. I'd say I'm pretty apathetic, but my go to answer for any group's plight: treat them as you want to be treated, etc.

Zelas said:

GLAAD believes positive visibility has actually decreased.


And from their report about representation in TV entertainment

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

The lack of visibility and positive role models really is quite tragic. It's gotten a little better over the past decade, but not by much.

It's just so incredibly damaging and potentially life ruining for trans kids and teens who end up repressing their gender identity issues as a result of the extremely horrible stereotypes and public perception of trans people.

I struggled with my gender identity issues from early childhood but I didn't even learn about actual transgender people or that medical transition via HRT was even possible until I was 16, and that was only because I stumbled across an amazing web comic that had a transgender main character. But by then it was already too late, my body had already been irreparably damaged by undergoing the wrong puberty. Prior to that the only exposure I had found was drag queens and fetishists cross dressers, basically the Rocky Horror Picture Show stereotype, which utterly revolted and scared me into repressing my feelings until it was too late.

Side note: I will always fucking despise Drag for the incredibly harmful and damaging mainstream perceptions and stereotypes of trans people that it passively, and often actively enforces. Whether that's unfair or immature of me, I really do not care.

Ketkat said:

Yeah, you're right. It was a little short-sighted of me to word it like that because I'm sure that black people have felt the exact same way and probably still do today. Its still a little frustrating to see the apathy that people have towards us, but I shouldn't think that we're the only minorities getting treated like this.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

you're not wrong! It is a good thread, it will make everyone think about your thoughts, which is why era is such a treasure :) Your thoughts are the same as mine, I love that this is a safe place to discuss such beliefs.

We discuss here,

It's a cultural thing here. LGBT community was persecuted in the Soviet Union with people actually receiving up to 5 years of imprisonment or being involuntarily commited to psychiatric facilities.

Now, of course, it's a bit different, there's no legal punishment for being an LGBT person (well, you can't adopt kids and there's that propaganda law) but people still consider it immoral and unnatural.

Plus, as others mentioned, most people can only empathize with their own struggle or similar experience.

I think I consider myself a bit ignorant about transgender issues, but sometimes I ask myself some questions when I read threads about them here.
That makes me think that recently a friend of a friend, who was a woman before, is going to get a sex-change operation (I think, I don't remember the details) since he considers himself a man. His family was really upset when they learned the news, I heard they made very hateful comments.
My friend told me she felt a bit strange about it, because she has always known her friend as a girl for years. I told her that, in the end, her friend will still be her friend, I guess I understand that it can feel weird but the most important thing is that her friend is happy.