Arizona governor suspends Uber's self-driving car tests

Good, it's way too early for self-driving cars to be on the road mass produced. It's not the year 2050 yet, I'd rather avoid a SkyNet like future where a machine can take my life. I feel a lot safer with an actual human behind the wheel who can make rational decisions.

Cybersai said:

Good, it's way too early for self-driving cars to be on the road mass produced. It's not the year 2050 yet, I'd rather avoid a SkyNet like future where a machine can take my life. I feel a lot safer with an actual human behind the wheel who can make rational decisions.

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I definitely don't feel safe when people:
-speed
-have road rage
-texting
-drunk driving

And so on. I don't have to worry about that from a computer. Don't be a Luddite and embrace the future

Not the least bit surprised that Uber is the one to fuck it up for everyone

Cybersai said:

Good, it's way too early for self-driving cars to be on the road mass produced. It's not the year 2050 yet, I'd rather avoid a SkyNet like future where a machine can take my life. I feel a lot safer with an actual human behind the wheel who can make rational decisions.

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:thinking:

As much as I want to get behind the idea of autonomous vechicles, there are still too many errors within the system. CS and AI at this level is still relatively in its infancy and I think that's important to remember. While I do think we are going to get to the point where self-driven cars outnumber those that are not, I also think we are going to have a lot more black dots on the chart before we reach a level of comfort.

I think it'll happen in my lifetime but it's not going to be easy rolling this out on a large scale that everybody wants. Automakers will probably push it out anyway, though.

How many people have been SLAUGHTERED by cars driven by mankind? Why don't we just ban cars in general, while we're at it.

Air said:

I definitely don't feel safe when people:
-speed
-have road rage
-texting
-drunk driving

And so on. I don't have to worry about that from a computer. Don't be a Luddite and embrace the future

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With a computer you have to worry that it doesn't value your life, or any life for that matter, and will run you down as soon as drive by you?

I would prefer not to be forcibly embraced by the hydraulic steel claw of the future.

Woo! Autonomous cars can get fucked.

NoName999 said:

How many people have been SLAUGHTERED by cars driven by mankind? Why don't we just ban cars in general, while we're at it.

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How many people have been SLAUGHTERED by stairs? Better ban all stairs then.

Vadara said:

Woo! Autonomous cars can get fucked.


How many people have been SLAUGHTERED by stairs? Better ban all stairs then.

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you call that a hot take?

edit: ok its better after the edit.

Akira86 said:

With a computer you have to worry that it doesn't value your life, or any life for that matter, and will run you down as soon as drive by you?

I would prefer not to be forcibly embraced by the hydraulic steel claw of the future.

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So what you want is for the computer to break down and cry in anguish after they've killed people, like a drunk driver with a heart?

Mechaplum said:

So what you want is for the computer to break down and cry in anguish after they've killed people, like a drunk driver with a heart?

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If we can't program Artificial Intelligences to follow the Asimov Laws of Robotics, we can traumatize it into them.

yeah HAL-600, you go ahead and replay running over those nuns at 10000mb/s in your memory banks for forever.

Akira86 said:

If we can't program Artificial Intelligences to follow the Asimov Laws of Robotics, we can traumatize it into them.

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Yeah that's what we want. AI's that can have a psychotic break.

Akira86 said:

With a computer you have to worry that it doesn't value your life, or any life for that matter, and will run you down as soon as drive by you?

I would prefer not to be forcibly embraced by the hydraulic steel claw of the future.

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I don't think people who are doing any of the things listed actually value life or they wouldn't be doing it. People don't really realize they're drive death machines but use that power with wreckless abandon- every time I've almost died it's because of a careless driver, so there isn't much difference between a computer and a person in that regard. At least with a computer as the tech improves the chances of accidents happening get far lower. I can't see that with people

It's a difficult line to tread. People are going to die in the process of testing automatic cars. The cold logic says that doing this testing is going to lead to a world where fewer people die in traffic incidents, but that's no comfort to those like this woman who will die.

I think in this case the prudent thing is to wait while they analyze exactly what went wrong and then fix it, prove the fix with regulators, and then re-authorize the public road tests. It won't stop the next person from getting killed when they do something the programmers didn't expect, but it is the appropriate way to proceed to our driverless future.

this is crazy to me as someone who's seen the dashcam video. it's pitch black at night and the woman is walking her bike across a busy road. as a human there's so way i would have seen her in time. i'm sure the ai will get better but there will always be driving fatalities even with nonhumans. using this as a barrier rubs me the wrong way. next up, someone throws themselves in front of an autonomous semi going 60mph and we halt that as well. it's bullshit

here's a picture before impact, linked so not to trigger anyone:

http://www.latimes.com/resizer/di8y...aws.com/public/SWAL7Q4QZZC6ZIMX5KTC3DLBFY.jpg

having said that, i STILL think the car should have seen her or at least decreased speed dramatically. uber should step up the tech but those denouncing self driving cars with this need a wake up call, it's coming

Akira86 said:

If we can't program Artificial Intelligences to follow the Asimov Laws of Robotics, we can traumatize it into them.

yeah HAL-600, you go ahead and replay running over those nuns at 10000mb/s in your memory banks for forever.

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the issue here is that you are expecting ai to overcome our species quest for darwinism. it will never happen because we are flawed creatures, period. some people put themselves into situations where they have a high chance of dying and no smart ai will ever be able to prevent that

Supercrap said:

That camera/video is only picking up what's lit because it has a worse sensor than what the human eye can see. They'll probably be running simulations to recreate so the real evaluation will come from that.

If the Uber car really had a suite of lidar and or even night vision camera equipment / sensors than the car shouldve performed better.

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i agree wholeheartedly and it's tragic regardless of how it's spun, and it should have performed better most definitely

By all accounts, Uber's self-driving tech was/is orders of magnitude behind Google/Waymo and GM/Cruise.

Hopefully those other companies can continue moving us towards the self-driving dream.

Sucks that this happened, but no way is this incident a indicator of how the finished product will be in terms of the AI. Scared of AI but not human drivers? Why? Humans are garbage at driving and countless deaths could have been avoided if humans made better decisions... I'm terrified at how often I have to dodge drivers that aren't paying a fucking lick of attention. I love to drive, but everyday I'm in town or on the highway, I'm reminded why I hope we don't have to drive for too much longer.

Akira86 said:

If we can't program Artificial Intelligences to follow the Asimov Laws of Robotics, we can traumatize it into them.

yeah HAL-600, you go ahead and replay running over those nuns at 10000mb/s in your memory banks for forever.

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Asimov's Laws were interesting fictional plot devices at the time, but that's all. They're not an actual thing, and if you tried the machine actually couldn't do anything because it can never be absolutely certain an action it takes won't end up harming a human. There may not be enough computational power in the universe to answer that query.

Also, what most people don't realize is that at some point the AIs/Machines will be on a higher order of ethical consideration than humans.

The only way the AI can ever get better if these remain on the road

But this is a extraordinarily easy and predictable political move

Stupid.

Cybersai said:

Good, it's way too early for self-driving cars to be on the road mass produced. It's not the year 2050 yet, I'd rather avoid a SkyNet like future where a machine can take my life. I feel a lot safer with an actual human behind the wheel who can make rational decisions.

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Wrong, it's way too early for Uber self driving cars to be on the road mass produced. Google and Tesla will be mass produced much sooner

Stick said:

Sucks that this happened, but no way is this incident a indicator of how the finished product will be in terms of the AI. Scared of AI but not human drivers? Why? Humans are garbage at driving and countless deaths could have been avoided if humans made better decisions... I'm terrified at how often I have to dodge drivers that aren't paying a fucking lick of attention. I love to drive, but everyday I'm in town or on the highway, I'm reminded why I hope we don't have to drive for too much longer.

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Humans are indeed so garbage at driving that there certainly doesn't exist an entire avenue of sport about driving cars called Motorsport and--oh wait, whoops!

Cybersai said:

Good, it's way too early for self-driving cars to be on the road mass produced. It's not the year 2050 yet, I'd rather avoid a SkyNet like future where a machine can take my life. I feel a lot safer with an actual human behind the wheel who can make rational decisions.

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2050 is too generous.

2030 is more likely. Consider how fast smartphones got adopted. That's the shift we're talking about here.

Further, most companies are all in on this, so it's an issue of adopting it and getting it right. Uber was never part of that picture: they want it now to eliminate their "contractors". Truck drivers want the same, but Uber's efforts with Otto produce safer, slower progress.

I always said that the best of both worlds was to have a hybrid solution.

Worldwide

"Nearly 1.3 million people die in road crashes each year, on average 3,287 deaths a day. An additional 20-50 million are injured or disabled. More than half of all road traffic deaths occur among young adults ages 15-44."

——————-

Annual United States Road Crash Statistics

Over 37,000 people die in road crashes each year

An additional 2.35 million are injured or disabled

Over 1,600 children under 15 years of age die each year

Nearly 8,000 people are killed in crashes involving drivers ages 16-20

Road crashes cost the U.S. $230.6 billion per year, or an average of $820 per person

Road crashes are the single greatest annual cause of death of healthy U.S. citizens traveling abroad


lol as someone who's been in a near fatal accident I'll take my chances with the damn AI

Vadara said:

Humans are indeed so garbage at driving that there certainly doesn't exist an entire avenue of sport about driving cars called Motorsport and--oh wait, whoops!

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Yeah, because that's representative of the general populace, captain contrarian.

What's the US statistic on the number of yearly pedestrian fatalities on average? According to the CDC, there were 5376 pedestrians killed in traffic crashes in 2015. That's nearly 15 pedestrians killed each day across America by human drivers. Governor of Arizona you know what you have to do. Ban humans from driving. It's the only way to be safe.

FunkyMonkey said:

this is crazy to me as someone who's seen the dashcam video. it's pitch black at night and the woman is walking her bike across a busy road. as a human there's so way i would have seen her in time. i'm sure the ai will get better but there will always be driving fatalities even with nonhumans. using this as a barrier rubs me the wrong way. next up, someone throws themselves in front of an autonomous semi going 60mph and we halt that as well. it's bullshit

here's a picture before impact, linked so not to trigger anyone:

http://www.latimes.com/resizer/di8y...aws.com/public/SWAL7Q4QZZC6ZIMX5KTC3DLBFY.jpg



the issue here is that you are expecting ai to overcome our species quest for darwinism. it will never happen because we are flawed creatures, period. some people put themselves into situations where they have a high chance of dying and no smart ai will ever be able to prevent that

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That camera/video is only picking up what's lit because it has a worse sensor than what the human eye can see. They'll probably be running simulations to recreate so the real evaluation will come from that.

If the Uber car really had a suite of lidar and or even night vision camera equipment / sensors than the car shouldve performed better.

Wracu said:

Asimov's Laws were interesting fictional plot devices at the time, but that's all. They're not an actual thing, and if you tried the machine actually couldn't do anything because it can never be absolutely certain an action it takes won't end up harming a human. There may not be enough computational power in the universe to answer that query.

Also, what most people don't realize is that at some point the AIs/Machines will be on a higher order of ethical consideration than humans.

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lies.
but if you go widespread with General Robotics without some unbreakable ethical baseline, all you'll get is chaos.

CHAOS.

Just stupid

ShadowFox said:

I always said that the best of both worlds was to have a hybrid solution.

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Waymo and Tesla I believe showed a problem with this: people become less attentive at the prospect of the car having driverless function, so they stay disengaged in the car. They're more likely to be on their phones in a driverless car while being in the driver's seat

For this reason alone, they're pushing for full autonomy.

Vadara said:

Humans are indeed so garbage at driving that there certainly doesn't exist an entire avenue of sport about driving cars called Motorsport and--oh wait, whoops!

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I agree with you. The only place where humans should be behind the wheel is on a racetrack.

This is why I think this tech will not be viable for such a long time

It's a PR nightmare and the political pressure any incident puts on politicians will be too much to ignore

not good

it will only take longer

Quixzlizx said:

I agree with you. The only place where humans should be behind the wheel is on a racetrack.

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humans shouldn't have cars, period. just AI controlled mass-transit.

Aaron Stack post if you're ok.

Guys. Guys. Guys. Stop and read a little more carefully. Uber, specifically Uber, and only Uber, has been barred from autonomous vehicle operation in Arizona. Google and Waymo and whoever else are still fine.

Akira86 said:

humans shouldn't have cars, period. just AI controlled mass-transit.

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Do you remember last years nVidia's CES presser? Their CEO really, really distrusts human drivers lol.

Vadara said:

Humans are indeed so garbage at driving that there certainly doesn't exist an entire avenue of sport about driving cars called Motorsport and--oh wait, whoops!

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did you type 'whoops' when you realized how ridiculous your post was?

This move is silly. One person died because she stepped in front of a self-driving car. When are we going to ban driving due to the miillion+ people who are killed by a car every year?

Shyotl said:

Yeah, because that's representative of the general populace, captain contrarian.

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If people on this forum get to act like every driver is a sleep-deprived idiot plastered so hard he can barely walk straight I get to do the exact opposite.

Air said:

I definitely don't feel safe when people:
-speed
-have road rage
-texting
-drunk driving

And so on. I don't have to worry about that from a computer. Don't be a Luddite and embrace the future

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And I don't feel safe when Uber is testing vehicles that fail at the most basic test of an automated vehicle's capabilities. The car should have detected the pedestrian and braked, as simple as that. Suspending their tests in the wake of a gross failure of their setup is an appropriate action to take.

It looks like it applies only to Uber which is fine in my book. They seem to be behind some of the others in the field and are pushing the tech at a reckless speed. Leading to incidents that give the rest of the self driving world a bad name.

Too lazy to find the article in the other thread but Uber is struggling to hit 13 miles per driver intervention while Waymo are averaging nearly 5600 miles.

Looks like Uber fucked it up for everyone, setting public perception back for years eventhough Google self driving car never had an incident

Cybersai said:

Good, it's way too early for self-driving cars to be on the road mass produced. It's not the year 2050 yet, I'd rather avoid a SkyNet like future where a machine can take my life. I feel a lot safer with an actual human behind the wheel who can make rational decisions.

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Good thing they're not being mass produced and there was a human behind the wheel in the one involved in the accident. Uber fucking up doesn't reflect the state of self driving cars as a whole. Most still have a human safety driver behind the wheel

Don't underestimate lobbying power. Once autonomous semi-trucks are feasible, companies will lobby the shit out of them to make them legal so they can drastically save money by not needing to pay truck drivers.

She was fucking jaywalking. Luddites.

They should have stolen the reaction time patch while they were at it.

Fuck uber. Hopefully Google and other less clownshoe companies pave the way forward by earning trust through safety on the road.

Raein said:

She was fucking jaywalking. Luddites.

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Clearly a crime worthy of summary execution. Yes, nice victim blaming there. Don't let human lives get in the way of progress.

It's ridiculous the blinders technologists have. I'm in CS and I don't understand how everyone can go forth so blindly and ignorantly, thinking everything will be just fine. Get real folks. If anything, you all should be attacking Uber for daring deploy such a deficient system with inferior to human vision tracking, let alone with radar and infrared that every autonomous system MUST HAVE.

Cybersai said:

Good, it's way too early for self-driving cars to be on the road mass produced. It's not the year 2050 yet, I'd rather avoid a SkyNet like future where a machine can take my life. I feel a lot safer with an actual human behind the wheel who can make rational decisions.

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Are you my 83 year old grandma?

Did you see the video? Woman walks across a highway between streetlights with no reflective gear whatsoever in the dead of night. She'd have been hit 9 times out of 10 by anyone.