Anti-gentrification protesters do the same thing. Starbucks? Nah, they're too big. New local coffee shop? Get 'em!
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Toronto chef butchers, eats deer leg in front of animal rights protesters outside his restaurant
- Thread starter Dook's Revenge
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Humans have interfered and guided the evolution of both plants and animals for ages now, it wouldn't be incorrect to describe certain things on earth as "for us" at all.
Like dogs wouldn't even be a thing without us, same as most the food you find in the produce section of your grocery store.
Pretty much all livestock too, are all man-made. Most barely resemble their wild counterparts, and I doubt that most species could survive in the wild without help from humans. Their colours, body shape, etc. would put them at quite a disadvantage to survival.
Like I said:
"We can make those choices again with the optics of lowering meat consumption, because of it's inherently bigger carbon footprint."
Justifying our current appetite for meat by saying ti was artificially selected so now it is our birthright is circular logic that doesn't hold water.
this is dumb
who draws the line?
where is the line in the 1st place?
killing cows, pigs, chickens etc aren't ok but mosquitoes, flies, cockroaches, rats are?
It's typically an argument for species preservation.
In the scenario where meat is banned or heavily reduced, people that run cattle farms have no reason to do anything other than butcher what they have immediately. If that's banned, then they'll just open their fences and let the cattle go. Where the cattle will promptly die since they have been naturally selected to live only outside of the food chain.
There's no scenario where a cattle cow lives in the wild. You'd get a couple in zoos and that's about it.
I am saying that industrial farming of livestock could be a relic of the past one day, I am not advocating for libertating current livestock and overrun the land with cows lol.
Now, I don't mind eating meat too but... you don't think animals are sentient/intelligent/have feelings? Like they're just robots or something?
I'd be willing to bet hundreds of millions of people around the world with pets will have a problem with your "animals are not sentient" argument thing.
Dogs, cats and horses have co-evolved with humankind for thousands of years - hence we have a natural empathy towards them and them us. In the case of dogs at least (I haven't researched other types) this was a mutually beneficial arrangement.
You probably would if you were harrassed like this guy appears to have.
I respect and admire people around me who choose to be vegetarian or vegan. I can't be stuffed to undergo the diet changes to do so myself. But these people are just fucking arseholes.
There was a secret video of conditions for Australian-exported cows being slaughtered in Indonesia that caused quite a fuss some years back. The cattle were being slaughtered, drained of blood, skinned and butchered in front other other cows in line.
In the video, there was one cow left in the line and goddamn was it scared shitless. That cow has never left my mind, that is a fucked up way to die and the cow definitely knew it.
Yes, for the life of me I can't understand people who think animals are non-sentient beings that can't experience emotions or pain. I just don't understand how they could come up with such a thought.
TBF it got dangerously cold in Toronto around December/January when it dropped to -40C/-40F with the windchill at times.
Can confirm regarding rabbit. Guinea pig meat is great too, you'll find many places here in Peru where they serve fried or roasted guinea pig and it's so tender, goes well with some hot sauce.
i think people get hung up and confused on the word sentient. it's obvious to most people that all animals think and feel. most people also know that you can survive on a diet that involves no animal products whatsoever (most don't realize how easy it actually is though).
that's what makes it harder to reconcile the fact that most people don't connect the dots that using animals for food etc is committing violence against sentient beings purely for pleasure.
people see a lion shot and get pissed, but when they think about eating a chicken its not an issue. it's basic discrimination, but it's hard to see because eating a chicken is so normal to most people, while killing a lion ins't. there isn't an argument that can support there being a moral distinction between the two violent acts unless its based on discrimination. because one is smart and one is dumb, or one is beautiful and one is ugly are not justifications that we use to discriminate against other people for good reason. the same reasoning should apply to how we treat non-human animals as well.
we just have a lot more excuses about why we can treat other animals poorly, like it being normal, or natural, or as long as we treat them humanely it's ok to basically do whatever we want with them. none of which are good arguments for doing unjust harm.
People see a lion get shot and get pissed because there's a huge difference between trophy hunting and game hunting. That lion isn't going to be butchered for meat to be sold on the market or kept to feed one's family. There's a difference between a sustenance hunter and a rich person who pays a few thousand bucks to go on safari.
Similarly, livestock aren't being slaughtered for bragging rights, they're being slaughtered to feed a growing population who, on a global scale, can actually afford to eat real meat.
Humans don't really. If that was the case you could say the same for hippos, orangutans and gorillas (even more so since their teeth are more impressive).
Sure if all your basing it on is a layman's gut instinct of what looks impressive. Go any deeper than that and your post might as well have included elephant tusks for how ridiculous it is.
Not really, as elephant's tusks don't sit in their mouth the same way humans, gorillas and orangutans teeth do.
No, really. It's equally as ridiculous. You can start with error checking that 'the same way humans, gorillas and orangutans do' to learn why. Human dental morphology is radically different from the great apes in dozens of ways, from jaw shape to facial prognathism to musculature to mastication strategies to relative molar size and enamel thickness. They're radically different. If you want to see hominids with robust gorilla-like jaws you need to visit the fossil record.
The lack of self-awareness of the protesters really is something. https://www.blogto.com/eat_drink/2018/03/antler-restaurant-vegan-protest-toronto/
In a protester's video there: "So the owner of this restaurant has gone out of his way to mock this legal, peaceful protest at Antler Restaurant... he's doing this deliberately to mock and taunt... and we're just conducting a legal protest, we're not harassing anyone, the police OK'd it..."
Fuck outta here buddy, you're holding up banners that say "murder" in front of this dude's restaurant
In a protester's video there: "So the owner of this restaurant has gone out of his way to mock this legal, peaceful protest at Antler Restaurant... he's doing this deliberately to mock and taunt... and we're just conducting a legal protest, we're not harassing anyone, the police OK'd it..."
Fuck outta here buddy, you're holding up banners that say "murder" in front of this dude's restaurant
Nice move. Yes!!
Note: in my humble opinion i am against vegetaranism and will do literally anything to stop that blasphemy
Note: in my humble opinion i am against vegetaranism and will do literally anything to stop that blasphemy
They put the bunny on the other side of the horse because they know...
we'll eat a rabbit before a horse, quick. I too am confused by the question on the sign, it seems quite clear. It even says "Food" and has the red arrosw. .
Actually they should compromise a little. As an example: i want to eat a dog meat. So, i need to find a way to kill my dog (or any other animals) without him being in pain. I think in that way, it's a win win to both parties
Edit: and no, i dont eat my dogs unless they die of natural causes or i just bury him
Edit: and no, i dont eat my dogs unless they die of natural causes or i just bury him
When I say 'gorillas, orangutans and humans teeth sit in the mouth the same' (as opposed to elephants) I mean they are sitting in their mouth without protruding (unlike an elephants tusk).
Then when the original post that I responded to referred to humans supposedly having such powerful teeth for tearing into an animal, I mentioned gorillas and orangutans (and hippos) who even have more sharper, and more destructive teeth, therefore if humans have such impressive teeth to supposedly tear apart an animal and eat it then surely gorillas, and orangutans should be out there doing the same if not more (aside from being found with the occasional fish or bug).
Honestly his restaurant sounds delicious. Would love to have a place that specialises in game meat.
I really wonder what those weirdos think about killing parasitic worms/insects when they make a statement like that.
Nobody can argue that eating flesh is not natural for humans, which I believe way the point he was trying to make. "We" have been doing it for at least hundreds of thousands of years iirc.
No matter what other species do.
And I mean... It's not like apes like orangutans aren't known to eat meat when they get the chance.
I don't get this "keep your views to yourself". Why? Do you think people advocating for human rights, womens rights, against bans on abortion, for the rights of homosexuals etc. should just keep their views to themselfs and stop bothering others who don't agree? Now yes, you are going to say that that is not the same to you, because even though animals are sentient and can suffer, their suffering is not of concern, because you don't value their lifes enough. Vegans do though, hence their protesting. So I really don't get this point. Wheter something should be political or not is highly subjective, and clearly vegans think animal rights/the environment are important enough that "just let them do as they want" is not gonna fly.
Now if you mean this protest specifically, then yeah, I agree, it won't help much. But it's not fair to just decide by yourself that these issues shouldn't be made political. You even acknowledged that our meat consumption is a serious hazard to the environment, why should it not get political? I think our consumption as a whole should be discussed, since there are many ethical problems surrounding it.
Yes, the line is arbitrary. But again, I think "anything but human" is difficult to argue for from an ethical standpoint, because we know that SOME animals are capable of suffering, that they are intelligent (comparable to 3 year old children even in the case of pigs), that they are social animals etc. There is a double standard in our ethics, where we build a wall around our species, as if we were something other than an animal, as if we were the only living thing worthy of moral consideration, because we are "special", created in Gods image and very different from any other animal. But we are not, we are animals, evolved from common ancestors with chimpanzees and closely related to the world around us. Being human or not, is not the only critria we should have when talking about the worth of life. I'm NOT saying ALL life is sacred, I'm merely saying that our current understanding of animal rights is a piss poor attempt and that our treatment of farm animals is unethical in many cases.
And if you think that "everything but our species is fair game and no other considerations ar needed", consider the following thought experiment:
Imagine that an advanced alien race visits us. Would it be moraly justifiable to put us into little cages where we can not even turn around, rounded up to be slaughtered and eaten? After all, they would have to be much more advanced than us. They would likely be much more different from us, than we are from pigs.
And a fly is not the same as a pig. There is no evidence to suggest that flies are capable of suffering as a conscious experience. Pigs can suffer though. And they do, all over the world, in horrendous situations, often their entire lifes because we can't have our meat cheap enough and need to eat it every damn day.
Even considering the environmental implications? I'm not saying people who eat meat are bad persons, but from a moral standpoint, surely you must agree that the alternatives are objectively better?
And what do you think about factory farming (asking sincerely)?
Haha good for him. It's silly for the protestors to pick on this guy even though his source of produce is all from locally sources farms.
I've always taken the argument that I'm fine with eating meat because I'd be fine hunting my own meat if I could. Sadly, I can't easily go out and hunt chickens, cows and pigs every day when living in a city and so I have to buy it from a shop.
I've always taken the argument that I'm fine with eating meat because I'd be fine hunting my own meat if I could. Sadly, I can't easily go out and hunt chickens, cows and pigs every day when living in a city and so I have to buy it from a shop.
There will already be like a thousand things a week to eat that are "artificially grown". Really arbitrary line to draw. The lab grown stuff may have the potential to be even nicer and now nutritious than the original source, and it will prevent the heinous environmental damage caused by the industry... So why not?
If you're a vegan and you come into the thread and read stuff like this:
It hardly feels like a warm, welcoming environment open for debate and accepting of all ways of life. It's easy to see how and why people like that poster would quickly feel marginalised and annoyed. That post isn't even the worst in the thread.
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Foie gras is pretty triggering. I don't know if they force feed the birds he's cooking but if it's one meat that should be removed from all menus period it's that just to make sure that the practice ends.
While this kind of place is a lot better than the chains I think it might be more triggering in the eyes of activists, his restaurant might be more of a "meat temple".
On another note, I have no problem eating wild game with a good conscience since we need to keep the numbers down here in Sweden - I've ran into deer while jogging, actually colliding with them and my fathers garden is always full of the animals. Sometimes as much as 20 deer.laying around the house. It's absurd really.
Them starving to death in winter due to being too many is not a pretty sight. Some of them have trouble with the climate as well and if they don't get large and strong enough the ice layer on the snow cuts up their legs in really, really nasty ways.
both are being slaughtered for someones own pleasure. not out of necessity. billions of animals arent killed every year because this growing population need to eat animal products to survive. they are killed because people enjoy eating it.
you cant condemn one and justify the other. neither is morally justifiable.
I'm generally not in favor of protesting outside restaurants as I haven't seen any evidence it is effective at reducing demand for animal products. However, if the place serves foie gras then it might not be such a waste of time. The production of other types of meat is certainly not 'humane' by any stretch of the imagination, but it is easier to reach the average person when talking about foie gras as the force-feeding may be seen as particularly 'cruel and unusual'.
A similar situation is that of fur. I wouldn't bother going up to someone on the street specifically to talk about leather. It is so pervasive in society that there are better ways to approach that subject, and better uses of my time. But a good portion of society has already come around on fur. You would be surprised how many people wearing real fur actually assume it is fake. I think a lot of non-vegans can see what is wrong with fur and what is wrong with foie gras, so I can see some value in this kind of advocacy.
A similar situation is that of fur. I wouldn't bother going up to someone on the street specifically to talk about leather. It is so pervasive in society that there are better ways to approach that subject, and better uses of my time. But a good portion of society has already come around on fur. You would be surprised how many people wearing real fur actually assume it is fake. I think a lot of non-vegans can see what is wrong with fur and what is wrong with foie gras, so I can see some value in this kind of advocacy.
They are usually cruel ppl that should be avoided like the plague.
Anyone who thinks animals are just for consumption and do not have the right to exist are the scum of the earth.
Bullshit. You can live without having to eat for 7 days or even longer. The question is how good you will feel, but it's not impossible at all.
How come there are 14 animals on that poster, but 7 of them are cats or dogs?
... wow
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