To be fair that's kind of been this series thing from the outset except the mainline series doesn't pussyfoot around having you fight
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Persona 5 is a goddamn slog
- Thread starter Deleted member 249
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To be fair that's kind of been this series thing from the outset except the mainline series doesn't pussyfoot around having you fight
This is my turn-off. I'm in the same boat as you. Persona 5 was my most anticipated title of the year, and I was crushed that I felt forced to drop it a mere two hours into the game. The localization is just atrocious, and that's a big part of the Persona experience for me. It was probably around the point you leave your new school for the first time with your proxy parent (the bar owner guy) who is rambling incoherently and perhaps insanely where I surmised that was clearly not how he was originally written that the game just died in the water for me. It completely broke me, and... I'm going to be a little hypocritical here.. but I'm angry at Atlus for this. Persona 5 is their marquee title of the year, maybe of the surrounding years. How did they fuck up the translation of Persona 5? Fuck.
I'm pissed too at the fans who stammer out, "It's not that bad. It didn't bother me." Fuck off. It makes me mad for the incredible work we got in the other titles, particular Persona 4, where everything from the scripting to the voice performances sound great. That people are not just willing but aggressively defending this kind of poor writing pisses me off, especially for a franchise I enjoyed allot.
OP
OP
Neither does P5
Yeah, I loved the voice work, but the actual writing doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Let's hope Persona 5's revision, whenever that is, addresses this.
I guess the biggest problem is the game felt like way too much of a retread. Every part was improved. The combat was fun, the soundtrack catchy, the characters cool, the voice acting, the story, and the style were all good; but the game just felt way too close in a way that just left me kind of bored with it. Not only that, but the story just didn't have quite the impact that 4 did have, where there were serious stakes that the game could end on a huge downer if you weren't careful about the investigation, or the melancholy twists that 3 had.
It also didn't help that Yakuza 0 came out a month or two earlier and explored Tokyo in a much more interesting way than 5 did imho
It also didn't help that Yakuza 0 came out a month or two earlier and explored Tokyo in a much more interesting way than 5 did imho
The end game does feel like a weak bit for sure. But in the persona trilogy, p3 and p4 suffer more from pacing compared to 5.
OP
OP
Those people are entitled to their preferences, but honestly, by no objective standard is the dub in Persona 4 'trash'
I really didn't care for Persona 3 at all and skipped on 4, but was surprised to find myself loving Persona 5.
100 hours later and I definitely enjoyed my time with the game, but your criticisms are completely founded. The game needed better, more concise writing, and Morgana forcing you to bed early so many times was incredibly frustrating.
I was especially annoyed that during days off school you were still restricted to only two activities max. Why don't we get more time on days off? It felt very contrived. A couple characters like Yosuke and Haru were very half-baked as well. Haru especially felt like such a jarring addition to the group, and her English voice direction was just tragic (no one speaks like that!).
100 hours later and I definitely enjoyed my time with the game, but your criticisms are completely founded. The game needed better, more concise writing, and Morgana forcing you to bed early so many times was incredibly frustrating.
I was especially annoyed that during days off school you were still restricted to only two activities max. Why don't we get more time on days off? It felt very contrived. A couple characters like Yosuke and Haru were very half-baked as well. Haru especially felt like such a jarring addition to the group, and her English voice direction was just tragic (no one speaks like that!).
Maybe it was just my playthrough, but I beat P5 quicker than P3. I used the same fight strategy as P3 though where you only control the main character, it does speed up battles and makes the game go by quicker. The other members were much more competent and the game was generally easier then P3.
I think your post has some great points on P5, it's not a perfect game, but P3 without it's story is a very sub par rpg compared to P5. Not all of the dungeons are great but it's better than the take previous Persona games .
I posted in another thread before but Persona 5 on paper is the best Persona game in the modern series but I enjoy 4 more. Persona 4 is a better Persona game, Persona 5 a better rpg. 3 story is fantastic but in today's standards much harder to go back for another run. The finale in 3 is top notch
OP
OP
I agree with almost everything you said, word for word. I am, however, going to point out that Persona 3 came out in 2007- Persona 5 is 10 years later, having the same or similar flaws two games and a decade later (not even going into the re-releases here) is far less excusable.
What, how? Neither game is anywhere as slow. Persona 3 takes 70-80h and features 250+ levels. It's full of gameplay and interaction. Persona 4 is a slightly shorter game even and doesn't drag past the first 5h. Persona 5 is extremely inconsistent in comparison.
Remember how the last month of P3 is fucking nothing? lol
Kinda one of the reason I would hold up P3P so much is because while it loses the 3D exploration, it improves on the turns with your party thing, adds the FeMC route that's great, and came in a portable form factor which made it much easier to get through it playing it in small chunks here or there. I'd wager most people have only played P4G and are used to how much the portability/pick-up-an-play nature helps digest the format better.
IDK how many people here played P4 on PS2, but without the portability, it just felt different.
Lots of people burnt out on the later sections of Tartarus and never finished it.
Don't even try to come with facts.
Apparently P3 and P4 are perfect and don't have all the problems OP mentioned.
Like the segments, where you have to gather information, which you already knew, in P4. Or months of nothingness in P3.
But no only P5, which has the most ongoing and coherent narrative throughout the game, suffers from pacing issues.
Good old nostalgia.
I finished Persona 3 in 2009, so I actually do not recall the last month. I just remember loving the shit out of P3, while P5 might just be the single worst game I played this year or at least one of the weakest. A 100h linear-ish RPG is completely unacceptable.
Yeah, it was also easily my most anticipated game ever, and ended up being my biggest gaming disappointment ever. Easily.
I did finish the game, maybe looking for some sense of closure, but it just left me empty, and feeling like I've wasted my time.
Unlike OP, though, I can't really say I still love the game. It's terrible. At least it looks and sounds amazing, Yongenjaya is super cozy and the combat improvements were all welcome. I still doubt I'll ever replay it, while I'm already thinking on how I'm gonna play P4 one more time, now that I no longer own a Vita or a PS3 with backwards compatibility.
I did finish the game, maybe looking for some sense of closure, but it just left me empty, and feeling like I've wasted my time.
Unlike OP, though, I can't really say I still love the game. It's terrible. At least it looks and sounds amazing, Yongenjaya is super cozy and the combat improvements were all welcome. I still doubt I'll ever replay it, while I'm already thinking on how I'm gonna play P4 one more time, now that I no longer own a Vita or a PS3 with backwards compatibility.
I honestly think a better localization would have fixed many of the issues.
P5 is just slightly off in that regard, and the sloppier dialogue makes it more difficult to get invested in the characters and story, which in turn makes you feel the length and notice the pacing issues more. It ostensibly should have the most character out of the modern Persona trilogy with all the wizz-bang graphics and style, but the sketchy localization strips out some of the heart, which is a huge strength of 3 and 4's appeal. Especially 4. P5's dialogue and localizing choices distinctly lack the stylishness of every other part of the game.
P5 is just slightly off in that regard, and the sloppier dialogue makes it more difficult to get invested in the characters and story, which in turn makes you feel the length and notice the pacing issues more. It ostensibly should have the most character out of the modern Persona trilogy with all the wizz-bang graphics and style, but the sketchy localization strips out some of the heart, which is a huge strength of 3 and 4's appeal. Especially 4. P5's dialogue and localizing choices distinctly lack the stylishness of every other part of the game.
If you still have any PS3 model, you can atleast still download a PS2 Classic version of it on North American PSN.
I agree that taking age into account is fair, I just don't think giving P3 a pass because it was great then is fair when it is far worse now gameplay wise do to the dungeon design not fighting mechanic. Totally understandable comparing P5 to P4 though because I think even though many years apart are close enough in mechanics which doesn't help P5.
There are a lot of series where age does not matter. FF commonly point to 6 as the best in the rpg space.
Not same genre but didn't play the metal gear series until a year before 5 came out. Played 1-4 back to back. Even with low poly PS1 graphics and slightly more awkward controls I still think 1 is the best which is a testament to it's design and pacing.
Which cast off characters do you like better, P3 or P5? I am still undecided for entire cast but for individual characters Makoto has to be the best in the modern series (so nice Avatar!)
Yeah, man, that's just the salt in the wound. What little I heard of the voice work sounded up to par, and of course the game looks stylish (if not as immediately inviting as Persona 4 but then again that's not the point).
From all the bravado around the script's enormous length compared to the prior entries', I'm not optimistic about Atlus combing over the whole thing again. That would also mean rerecording everything, and I just don't see that as a thing that happens.
... on the flip side of all this, incidentally, is a company like NISA, who fucked up Ys 8 and held back its Steam release so they could go over the whole thing again... annd people have been giving them shit for it (if you look at the ERA topic there's some vile shit in there). I understand being upset something's not up to standards, guys, but crap like demanding a discount for having to wait or boycotting the title because the publisher admitted a mistake and is trying to fix it just makes us look bad.
Sorry for the diversion, but I couldn't help but feel this was related.
After only playing 15 hours of P4, P5 was my first true Persona experience. For the most part I enjoyed it, but I agree that the game & some of the palaces go on far too long. That last palace was a total slog and when I died during it & was forced to play through two hours of boring fights yet again, I wanted to quit. Overall, I'm glad I played the game, but it's definitely something I couldn't imagine playing through again.
It's no more linear than P3 was, and P3 could also take close to 100 hours to finish.
There is nothing wrong with that, but to claim that P3 and P4 don't suffer from the same problems is.
And P3 had indeed months of nothingness.
What the hell is wrong with a 100 hour rpg.
OP
OP
Okay.
Now tell me where in this entire thread I have said any of that. I know it's a long thread, and I have posted a lot, so I will wait.
Yeah, OP makes some fair points, but I don't know what to tell some people in here other than to check their nostalgia. *shrug*
They appear to be responding to and arguing with the reasoning of Imp the Dimp in particular, not you or your thread in general.
I totally agree, I tried to play this and some stuff about it was really cool, but I just couldn't do it man. It was time-draining.
I don't know if it's writing or localization or what, but at some point it is so frustrating to hear the dialogue just go over the same fuckin points over and over again. Like I can pick up on context clues, I understand subtlety, let's get movin.
I loved Persona 4, but maybe I just had more patience back then.
I don't know if it's writing or localization or what, but at some point it is so frustrating to hear the dialogue just go over the same fuckin points over and over again. Like I can pick up on context clues, I understand subtlety, let's get movin.
I loved Persona 4, but maybe I just had more patience back then.
Yah the portable factor definitely helps. I would agree fighting in small chunks for P3P makes the fighting wise much better. I still gravitate to the only controlling main character like P3 originally (it makes your party seem cooler, they are saving you haha..) but the character choice for moves was bad in P3 originally and got you killed a lot. P3P also let you fight in dungeons as long as you wanted so you could clear them out in a day like P4/(most of 5).
Anyone looking to play Persona 3 for the first time fyi and picking up the portable over PS2 version make sure you watch a guide for when to watch cutscenes. It won't spoil much just look at what dates to watch cutscenesWithout them the game isn't the same.
P4G really elevates itself from P4, would be interesting if there was a P5G and any changes or enhancements made.
Ahh nice to see that GAF hyperbole carry over.
I'm legitimately baffled by people who think 5 is a slog but love P3 and P4. P3 and P4 has hours, sometimes 10s of hours, where not a goddamn thing happens. Now that's fine because it sort of enhances the slice of life feeling it definitely messed with the pacing at times. Like it took me months to get through P3s 20 or so hours just because of how slow it felt. P4s opening hours are dull as hell and there definitely slow parts in between. I loved both games but both took me around six months to finish because they just have multiple parts where the pacing comes to a crawl. I blew through Persona 5 in a little under a month, clocking in 121 hours in the process. Currently working on a replay in between games and I've got 194 hours in and counting. Just a much better paced game than the previous two imo.
I didn't mean you. It was for the replies, which make sounded like it's a thing just in P5 and other personas don't have similar problems.
OP
OP
I don't necessarily think that if P3 were to release as it is right now, it would be a better game than P5 at all (in fact, this is one of the reasons I am demanding a P3 definitive remake so much!). I also would not rank P3 over P5 in my rankings under any circumstances.
I think P5 has the better cast than P3 (but not P4, except for Makoto who, yes, I agree is the best character in the series :D)
Well, as for NISA, you need to consider they invited the unfavorable reaction by their bravado regarding the localization of Ys 8 when they acquired the rights; you also need to consider that for that same reason, they have to fix the localization if they want future Ys localizations over XSEED. I give them credit for doing it, sure- but then again, I don't think them taking the time to bring it to a level it should have been at to begin with necessarily deserves much beyond cursory acknowledge from me. Just my 2¢
OP
OP
This thread hurt my soul, my play-through was 150 hours and I adore every bit of it, the long dungeons were lovely compared to going to eat at the burger place or reading to level up my stats. God I've read before that some people would rather go back to P3/P4 dungeons (on gaf) due to the length of the palace which is mind boggles as those dungeons are lazy crap when compared to other RPG dungeons released at the same time.
But I do believe the persona formula needs a shake up big time, its showing its age now so hopefully the next game will bring alot of new ideas to the series.
Godtier OST though, so good.
But I do believe the persona formula needs a shake up big time, its showing its age now so hopefully the next game will bring alot of new ideas to the series.
Godtier OST though, so good.
I don't mean this in an insulting way, but do you feel like part of it was that it was a lot harder to relate to the kids than the last two games? I felt a little too old for it in a way that I've never felt before
I truly can't wrap my head around the general opinion around here regarding P4 and P5.
I thought P4 was like a bad anime mixed with boring randomized dungeons. I thought P5 was pure genius, and my 115 hour play time felt like half that, and I wanted more the second I was finished.
And I say this as an old school Persona and SMT fan.
I thought P4 was like a bad anime mixed with boring randomized dungeons. I thought P5 was pure genius, and my 115 hour play time felt like half that, and I wanted more the second I was finished.
And I say this as an old school Persona and SMT fan.
OP
OP
Not at all, I managed to relate to a lot of the cast - Yusuke, Futaba, Makoto, and even Ryuji - very well. I come from a country with a culture and social etiquette very similar to Japan myself, so the themes and narrative movements of P5 were very resonant with me, and I could strongly empathize with the characters and their struggles. And as you will note, I don't actually criticize the story itself in my post at all- my criticisms are reserved more with the execution of P5 than the idea.
There's a lot of redundant text, but honestly I didn't fine it that annoying. My biggest issue was never having a clear grip one what days I could do things vs what days I was locked out of doing things. I get that some of this is for balancing purposes, but more consistent days would have been very helpful.
I absolutely adored it to the point where I played through it twice and it's my personal GOTY, but yeah, it's not without its flaws. Relative to the previous two I'd just say it's a highly uneven game- when it's at its best (most notably in palaces four and six and the surrounding story arcs) it's miles above 3 and 4; at its worst it's well below them. Neither 3 nor 4 have any aspects that really jump out at their respective fandoms as That One Fucking Part That You Dread Having To Slog Through On Replays like P5's fifth dungeon/story arc, from what I've seen anyway.
Funny enough, a big contributor to this is the fact that P5 goes for actual manual dungeon design for its main story dungeons rather than the randomly generated Tartarus floors of 3 or the may-as-well-be-randomly generated same-ey corridor dungeons of 4. So their good dungeons are massive improvements while their bad dungeons are worse than if they had just kept phoning it in with random corridors. But then on top of that they have Mementos, which makes the overall amount of dungeon content you're obligated to get through significantly larger than what you had to get through in 3 and 4 (at least it feels that way to me?) and is a big contributor to its runtime being longer than the first two. You could honestly leave the story entirely alone; just cut the number/size of Mementos areas in half and trim some fat off of the longer dungeons (3, 7, and especially 5) and the pacing of the whole game would be dramatically better.
The amount of time that's "wasted" didn't really bother me, to be honest, because I figured the game was going to be balanced around the time I had, not the time I would have had were it not for that fucking cat. Had we been able to go out all of those nights they'd have just slightly upped the amount of points you needed to level stats/social links.
Overall I'd say the characters and overall themes/aesthetic blow 3/4 out of the fucking water, it's a drastic improvement over 3/4 in terms of the overall gameplay formula, it just really could've used another editing pass on all fronts (gameplay, story, and of course the localization.)
Funny enough, a big contributor to this is the fact that P5 goes for actual manual dungeon design for its main story dungeons rather than the randomly generated Tartarus floors of 3 or the may-as-well-be-randomly generated same-ey corridor dungeons of 4. So their good dungeons are massive improvements while their bad dungeons are worse than if they had just kept phoning it in with random corridors. But then on top of that they have Mementos, which makes the overall amount of dungeon content you're obligated to get through significantly larger than what you had to get through in 3 and 4 (at least it feels that way to me?) and is a big contributor to its runtime being longer than the first two. You could honestly leave the story entirely alone; just cut the number/size of Mementos areas in half and trim some fat off of the longer dungeons (3, 7, and especially 5) and the pacing of the whole game would be dramatically better.
The amount of time that's "wasted" didn't really bother me, to be honest, because I figured the game was going to be balanced around the time I had, not the time I would have had were it not for that fucking cat. Had we been able to go out all of those nights they'd have just slightly upped the amount of points you needed to level stats/social links.
Overall I'd say the characters and overall themes/aesthetic blow 3/4 out of the fucking water, it's a drastic improvement over 3/4 in terms of the overall gameplay formula, it just really could've used another editing pass on all fronts (gameplay, story, and of course the localization.)
Wasn't there an essential RPG list being compiled (on Gaf then released here) where it ranked 8 of all time? The majority of people still look upon it very favorably, but the good points just isn't brought up as much or as easily as discussions about the negative aspects of the game. Like you I think it's the best game in the series, and I'm sure there are just as many that share that opinion.
That's true if you want to Max all social links but in this game I found there was so much time and leeway to do the social stuff. I half followed a Max link guide and maxed out everything with decent room remaining.
I couldn't do that in p4