Television Displays and Technology Thread: The ERA of OLED is Now

RedlineRonin · Apr 3, 2018

DOTDASHDOT said:
I have to confess, that my PC is gathering dust, and probably for similar reasons that you have stated, the whole HDR thing has really pissed me off, and since I bought an X, the PC has more or less gone unused, and that houses an 1080ti too. Not good.

Whattttttttt

dude if you aren't using it, you should really sell that 1080ti and hop back in after all this crypto nonsense blows over. could probably get $1K for that card (which i'm assuming is more than you paid for it)

MrBob said:
I'm considering buying Far Cry 5 on xbox right now instead of PC because I fear I won't be able to get HDR to work properly. The thought of being stuck at 30FPS hurts though.

PC why you suck at HDR.

I think I'll buy Far Cry 5 on Steam and if I can't get HDR to work I return it. Hooray for digital returns.

Everyone in the PC perf thread seem to indicate there aren't any HDR issues with FC5. Should work fine.

GreenMonkey · Apr 3, 2018

CRIMSON-XIII said:
so what i am noticing, everyone notices anyway? and some movies simply wont have the stuttering?

It's a source problem .

https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/motion/motion-interpolation-soap-opera-effect

The answer is to turn on de-judder and de-blur. Motion artifacts are the compromise you'll get. The better answer is better video processing which LG doesn't seem to have yet. People say the Sonys have better video processing but Rtings only rates them a tiny bit above LG.

Source video showing 24fps vs 60 (click settings and change to 1080p/60)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyvUIA7KUjc

Search youtube for 24fps 30fps 60fps and you'll see a ton of side-by-side video showing the difference between them.

Rtings explains it on the 7 series OLED here:
https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/b7-b7a-oled#comparison_821

Here's what I did. Take the same content and watch it on your PC monitor. I noticed the same exact same kinds of stuttering on my 34" Ultrawide LCD (IPS screen) when I watched the same scenes as my OLED. LCD just has some motion blur which covers it up some on LCD, but it's still there. If you pay attention you'll see in the theater on their DLP projectors also.

CRIMSON-XIII · Apr 3, 2018

GreenMonkey said:
It's a source problem .

https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/motion/motion-interpolation-soap-opera-effect

The answer is to turn on de-judder and de-blur. Motion artifacts are the compromise you'll get. The better answer is better video processing which LG doesn't seem to have yet. People say the Sonys have better video processing but Rtings only rates them a tiny bit above LG.

Source video showing 24fps vs 60 (click settings and change to 1080p/60)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyvUIA7KUjc

Search youtube for 24fps 30fps 60fps and you'll see a ton of side-by-side video showing the difference between them.

Rtings explains it on the 7 series OLED here:
https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/b7-b7a-oled#comparison_821

Here's what I did. Take the same content and watch it on your PC monitor. I noticed the same exact same kinds of stuttering on my 34" Ultrawide LCD (IPS screen) when I watched the same scenes as my OLED. LCD just has some motion blur which covers it up some on LCD, but it's still there. If you pay attention you'll see in the theater on their DLP projectors also.

hey, thanks a lot for the responses.

I have been using the bottom of the trumotion user at 10, and the top option as between 2-4 out of 10. so i guess i am doing the only compromise i can.

thanks . i guess i only go to theaters twice a year or once, for star wars or a marvel movie, so i havent really noticed and i just got the oled in november so i am finally watching High content. ill have to stick with it

DOTDASHDOT · Apr 3, 2018

RedlineRonin said:
Whattttttttt

dude if you aren't using it, you should really sell that 1080ti and hop back in after all this crypto nonsense blows over. could probably get $1K for that card (which i'm assuming is more than you paid for it)

You could be right tbh, and then pre-order, one of the new cards or something.

RedlineRonin · Apr 3, 2018

DOTDASHDOT said:
You could be right tbh, and then pre-order, one of the new cards or something.

Yeah i mean it's one thing if you're actually playin games but it's another if it's literally sitting in an used PC (and you don't have plans to spin it up soon).

DOTDASHDOT · Apr 3, 2018

RedlineRonin said:
Yeah i mean it's one thing if you're actually playin games but it's another if it's literally sitting in an used PC (and you don't have plans to spin it up soon).

It's funny, cause I didn't really expect the X to be as good as it is, I mean 1800p (with a fair few native 4K) inc these amazing temporal injection techniques, just look so good, and as much as I like 60fps, a smooth 30, doesn't upset me too much.

RedlineRonin · Apr 3, 2018

DOTDASHDOT said:
It's funny, cause I didn't really expect the X to be as good as it is, I mean 1800p (with a fair few native 4K) inc these amazing temporal injection techniques, just look so good, and as much as I like 60fps, a smooth 30, doesn't upset me too much.

Yeah I know what you mean. My buddy has an X on his EF9500 and loves it. I definitely don't "not enjoy" games at 30 FPS; loved UC4, HZD, R&C and others. I just really prefer 60 where I can get it.

Agree on the temporal stuff too. Doom is supposed to look fantastic on the X.

PeterVenkman · Apr 3, 2018

Do y'all still have PC HDR issues? As of the last update and playing Ni no Kuni 2, Windows is detecting HDR automatically now, as it should be. Haven't had to change anything in the control panel or the display settings.

At this point it'd be nice to not have the steam UI blown out as bad, it it's leagues better than it used to be.

RedlineRonin · Apr 3, 2018

PeterVenkman said:
Do y'all still have PC HDR issues? As of the last update and playing Ni no Kuni 2, Windows is detecting HDR automatically now, as it should be. Haven't had to change anything in the control panel or the display settings.

At this point it'd be nice to not have the steam UI blown out as bad, it it's leagues better than it used to be.

Tends to be on a per game basis, unfortunately. Good news is that we're definitely better off now than even 9 months ago. Bad news is we're still seeing stuff that ships with bad HDR implementations (like FFXV PC, where you still need to turn it on in the Windows CP)

MrBob · Apr 3, 2018

The Xbox one x is pretty good, especially in the face of bloated pc hardware prices like ram and video cards.

Get a real CPU in the next gen systems and it makes me hopeful we can start getting 4k60 games with 4k120 vrr support.

PeterVenkman · Apr 3, 2018

RedlineRonin said:
Tends to be on a per game basis, unfortunately. Good news is that we're definitely better off now than even 9 months ago. Bad news is we're still seeing stuff that ships with bad HDR implementations (like FFXV PC, where you still need to turn it on in the Windows CP)

Ah didn't realize it was a game side thing. Bummer about FFXV - I remember Shadow of War behaving similarly.

RedlineRonin · Apr 3, 2018

PeterVenkman said:
Ah didn't realize it was a game side thing. Bummer about FFXV - I remember Shadow of War behaving similarly.

Yep. Most stuff is better. I keep harping, but Destiny 2 and AC:O were pretty much flawless from a PnP perspective. Start the game, go in settings, enable HDR, and done. AC:O was even better by giving you the ability to set peak nit output and do some adjusting.

Overall, it's definitely better than it was, it's still just early days for HDR on PC. It'll all get ironed out over time.

bsigg · Apr 3, 2018

Fuck me I just found out I can save $1,200 on the 75 inch Q9FN or $600 on the $65 inch Q9FN.

Arkanius · Apr 3, 2018

I dont understand how you can say Destiny 2 HDR is badly implemented.
It's a night and day diference on my B7

It feels like you take off a gray vaseline layer of the image. Despite being the same colors, the contrast is way more pronounced.
It feels great.

RedlineRonin · Apr 3, 2018

bsigg said:
Fuck me I just found out I can save $1,200 on the 75 inch Q9FN or $600 on the $65 inch Q9FN.

jfc...

two year upgrade programs are a thing for TVs now??

I mean people are probably going to upgrade more often but, every two years? Seems excessive...

Arkanius said:
I dont understand how you can say Destiny 2 HDR is badly implemented.
It's a night and day diference on my B7

It feels like you take off a gray vaseline layer of the image. Despite being the same colors, the contrast is way more pronounced.
It feels great.

Also found that post odd. Idk if it's because there's a console vs PC difference, but I think Destiny 2 looks great in HDR. Specular highlights in particular really stand out, like most Warlock abilities.

bsigg · Apr 3, 2018

RedlineRonin said:
jfc...

two year upgrade programs are a thing for TVs now??

I mean people are probably going to upgrade more often but, every two years? Seems excessive...

I saw that and was like what the hell is this? Apparently they apply up to 33% of the cost of the TV you're currently using towards the cost of the new one or something like that.

EvilBoris · Apr 3, 2018

RedlineRonin said:
Tends to be on a per game basis, unfortunately. Good news is that we're definitely better off now than even 9 months ago. Bad news is we're still seeing stuff that ships with bad HDR implementations (like FFXV PC, where you still need to turn it on in the Windows CP)

Isn't it down to whether the game boots full screen exclusive of full screen borderless?

Chamber · Apr 3, 2018

RedlineRonin said:
jfc...

two year upgrade programs are a thing for TVs now??

I mean people are probably going to upgrade more often but, every two years? Seems excessive...

It sounds ridiculous but I think I'm averaging about 18 months of ownership since I've started buying TV's with my own money. If LG had a program going like Samsung, I'd probably be on it.

RedlineRonin · Apr 3, 2018

EvilBoris said:
Isn't it down to whether the game boots full screen exclusive of full screen borderless?

I'm inferring from your question (assuming that's true; i have no idea), that when FFXV says "fullscreen" in the menu option, that is actually untrue and it's borderless fullscreen. Is that right?

Chamber said:
It sounds ridiculous but I think I'm averaging about 18 months of ownership since I've started buying TV's with my own money. If LG had a program going like Samsung, I'd probably be on it.

I suppose it's all about when you buy. Like, if you bought next year (assuming 2.1 or at least VRR is in OLEDs), I'm not sure you'd buy for 3-5 years after, right? It'll be presumably that long before micro LED is ready for primetime, and 8K will be pointless while microprocessor tech lags behind even 4K right now in many cases.

I could certainly see if I bought a year or two ago, upgrading next year, but it's all about what tech comes when. I'm not sure I could genuinely say i'd want to upgrade every two years.

Footos22 · Apr 3, 2018

Picked up a brand spanking new c7 yesterday. Shit is amazing even out the box and looks great aesthetically but is there anywhere I can get some calibrated settings or just stick to the ISF dark and bright? Getting the ps4 pro settings right for sdr was a bit of a pain but I think I'm happy with the result. Proper HDR is excellent. Didn't know what I was missing with my old 8bit panel

Bumrush · Apr 3, 2018

GearDraxon said:
It's cool that Vincent did that video - there are a lot of people who will be cross-shopping the 930E (as it presumably goes to clearance pricing) and the 900F.

I'm sure that some, who are simply fans of specific teknology, will ignore this video as always.

My man...that exquisite subtlety

Eggiem · Apr 3, 2018

Gn0mercy said:
Aye...

You know, and this is just wishful thinking on my part, but if Samsung's new game interpolation of 30 FPS titles is artifact free, might be a game changer for console gamers:

On the C7, interpolating 30 FPS titles makes them look like 60 FPS titles. The illusion breaks when you start playing of course -- the input lag is shit, and artifacts manifest themselves during fast camera movements. But if it works... i mean, i'd play 30 FPS console titles with interpolation if there were no artifacts and no added input lag!

What settings do you use for that effect?

DOTDASHDOT · Apr 3, 2018

RedlineRonin said:
jfc...

two year upgrade programs are a thing for TVs now??

I mean people are probably going to upgrade more often but, every two years? Seems excessive...

I've had 6 different TV's in 5 years..... I know I know. ;0

Samaritan · Apr 3, 2018

Footos22 said:
Picked up a brand spanking new c7 yesterday. Shit is amazing even out the box and looks great aesthetically but is there anywhere I can get some calibrated settings or just stick to the ISF dark and bright? Getting the ps4 pro settings right for sdr was a bit of a pain but I think I'm happy with the result. Proper HDR is excellent. Didn't know what I was missing with my old 8bit panel

True "calibrated" (i.e. professionally calibrated) settings are never going to work as something you can copy off of someone else's set, as they have to be done on a set by set basis. With that said however, these are my settings for my B7 if you want to use as a baseline:

-----GAMES-----

SDR (set your input's icon to PC for low latency + the ability to use the isf Expert picture mode. Just be sure to switch off of the PC icon for HDR content, as PC + HDR introduces really bad yellow tinting)

isf Expert (Dark Room)
OLED Light: 50
Contrast: 90
Brightness: 50 (can be set up to 52 while maintaining perfect black levels, but it can sometimes reveal unsightly noise)
H/V Sharpness: 10
Color: 50
Tint: 0

Expert Controls

Dynamic Contrast: Off
Super Resolution: Off
Color Gamut: Auto
Edge Enhancer: Off
Color Filter: Off
Gamma: 2.2
White Balance -> Color Temperature: Warm2

Picture Options

Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off
Black Level: High (this will be entirely dependent on the type of device you have connected, as well as the type of content. For instance, on my PS4 Pro I'll have this set to High for games, but would need to set it to Low if I wanted to watch movies or TV)
Real Cinema: On
Motion Eye Care: Off
TruMotion: Off

HDR (input taken off of PC because HDR + PC introduces really bad yellow tinting to the picture)

Game (User)
OLED Light: 100
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 50
H/V Sharpness: 10
Color: 65
Tint: 0
Color Temperature: W40

Advanced Controls

Dynamic Contrast: Low
Dynamic Color: Off
Color Gamut: Auto
Edge Enhancement: On
Super Resolution: Off

Picture Options

Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off
Black Level: Low
Motion Eye Care: Off

-----MOVIES-----

SDR

isf Expert (Dark Room)
OLED Light: 50
Contrast: 90
Brightness: 50
H/V Sharpness: 10
Color: 50
Tint: 0

Expert Controls

Dynamic Contrast: Off
Super Resolution: Off
Color Gamut: Auto
Edge Enhancer: Off
Color Filter: Off
Gamma: 2.2
White Balance -> Color Temperature: Warm2

Picture Options

Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Reduction: Off
Black Level: Low
Real Cinema: On
Motion Eye Care: Off
TruMotion: Off

HDR

technicolor Expert
OLED Light: 100
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 49/50 (I like to set my brightness down 1 notch to take advantage of OLED's inky blacks, even at the expense of clipping some low-light detail)
H/V Sharpness: 10
Color: 55
Tint: 0

Advanced Controls

Dynamic Contrast: Low
Dynamic Color: Off
Color Gamut: Auto
Edge Enhancement: On
Super Resolution: Off

Picture Options

Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off
Black Level: Auto
Motion Eye Care: Off

Dolby Vision

Cinema (User)
OLED Light: 50 (I've found on a couple pieces of Dolby Vision content that raising this 5 or even 10 steps improved the overall look without affecting quality, so you might want to play with it. I definitely don't advise raising this any higher than 60 though)
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 50
Sharpness: 10
Color: 50

Expert Controls

Dynamic Contrast: Off
Super Resolution: Off
Edge Enhancer: On
Color Filter: Off

Picture Options

Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off
Motion Eye Care: Off
TruMotion: Off

Footos22 · Apr 3, 2018

Samaritan said:
True "calibrated" (i.e. professionally calibrated) settings are never going to work as something you can copy off of someone else's set, as they have to be done on a set by set basis. With that said however, these are my settings for my B7 if you want to use as a baseline:

Ta very much

molnizzle · Apr 3, 2018

Eggiem said:
What settings do you use for that effect?

Settings that give you way too much input lag for gaming.

Chamber · Apr 3, 2018

RedlineRonin said:
I suppose it's all about when you buy. Like, if you bought next year (assuming 2.1 or at least VRR is in OLEDs), I'm not sure you'd buy for 3-5 years after, right? It'll be presumably that long before micro LED is ready for primetime, and 8K will be pointless while microprocessor tech lags behind even 4K right now in many cases.

I could certainly see if I bought a year or two ago, upgrading next year, but it's all about what tech comes when. I'm not sure I could genuinely say i'd want to upgrade every two years.

I think a 77" OLED is the only TV that would truly satisfy me 100% but there was a time when I said that about 65" too. It's a vicious cycle, man.

Punished Goku · Apr 3, 2018

Any of you Sony X930E owners have your Dolby vision settings on hand?

Kyoufu · Apr 3, 2018

Chamber said:
I think a 77" OLED is the only TV that would truly satisfy me 100% but there was a time when I said that about 65" too. It's a vicious cycle, man.

77" will feel like a 42" after a week

Chamber · Apr 3, 2018

Kyoufu said:
77" will feel like a 42" after a week

Well the 77" will only become affordable once the 88" is out at which point I'm right back where I started. :(

Jeremiah · Apr 3, 2018

Eggiem said:
What settings do you use for that effect?

I've only tried it with HDR content on my C7. Using the 'Cinema User HDR', find Tru Motion and set that to 'Smooth'.

Try it out in HZD. Without panning the camera, you get an idea what the game would look like @ 60FPS.

molnizzle said:
Settings that give you way too much input lag for gaming.

Definitely, and artifacts. With that being said, Samsung apparently has 30fps interpolation @4k to 60fps with an input lag of 25ms. Interpolating 120 fps apparently results in 29ms of lag.
Really interested in seeing how it pans (har har) out on the Q9FN. Aside from the artifacts, as far as I'm concerned, shit really works in making things/games look 60 fps.

Personally, if, big IF, Samsung can do it with minimal artifacts, I'll play 30fps games with interpolation on. Low input lag and faux smoothness ya'll, screw the haters

Bumrush · Apr 3, 2018

Chamber said:
It sounds ridiculous but I think I'm averaging about 18 months of ownership since I've started buying TV's with my own money. If LG had a program going like Samsung, I'd probably be on it.

What do you do with old sets?

Chamber · Apr 3, 2018

Bumrush said:
What do you do with old sets?

Sell off on places like OfferUp or give away to family members. My B7 will probably go in the bedroom next year when I replace it with a C9/E9.

BAD said:
I'll say that officially of all the 4K content I tested this week, Murder on the Orient Express (2017) and Dunkirk are the most reference quality and impressive to me.

Both gorgeous if you want demonstrations of real 4K transfers.

Have you tried Power Rangers? 6K source format, 4K DI, Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos on disc. It's pretty spectacular.

RedlineRonin · Apr 3, 2018

Chamber said:
I think a 77" OLED is the only TV that would truly satisfy me 100% but there was a time when I said that about 65" too. It's a vicious cycle, man.

Bumrush always says 85 is the new 77

=)

Bumrush · Apr 3, 2018

Chamber said:
Sell off on places like OfferUp or give away to family members. My B7 will probably go in the bedroom next year when I replace it with a C9/E9.

I hate dealing with selling high priced electronics items so I usually end up severely undercharging. OfferUp pretty reliable?

RedlineRonin said:
Bumrush always says 85 is the new 77

=)

Lol, Honestly, I'm not sure I could go less than 85" next year. These rumors about possibly seeing 88" OLEDs have me jazzed

Chamber · Apr 3, 2018

Bumrush said:
I hate dealing with selling high priced electronics items so I usually end up severely undercharging. OfferUp pretty reliable?

Yeah, you'll probably end up undercharging if you want to get rid of it. My KS8000 went for $550 last year which was more than I expected.

RedlineRonin · Apr 3, 2018

Bumrush said:
Lol, Honestly, I'm not sure I could go less than 85" next year. These rumors about possibly seeing 88" OLEDs have me jazzed

That 900F 85 isn't bad. 5300 I think?

jstevenson · Apr 3, 2018

Gn0mercy said:
Sooooo... how does Spiderman look on your OLED?

really freaking awesome (hopefully you guys have seen our PS4 Pro Implementation of Ratchet & Clank)

RedlineRonin · Apr 3, 2018

jstevenson said:
really freaking awesome (hopefully you guys have seen our PS4 Pro Implementation of Ratchet & Clank)

Duuuuude R&C looks INCREDIBLE on my C7. No lie, playable Pixar movie tier.

nogoodnamesleft · Apr 3, 2018

Any impressions on the C8's game mode hdr? ive read a few scattered comments on forums claiming its only slightly brighter than current models :/

Deleted member 4346 · Apr 3, 2018

Bumrush said:
What do you do with old sets?

This wasn't directed at me, but personally I sell them on Craigslist. It can be annoying but I've sold 2 LCDs and 2 plasmas there, and an SXRD rear-projection set. And one plasma through AVS Classifieds. I subsidize my next set with the sale of the last one, makes upgrades less painful.

RedlineRonin · Apr 3, 2018

Apharmd said:
This wasn't directed at me, but personally I sell them on Craigslist. It can be annoying but I've sold 2 LCDs and 2 plasmas there, and an SXRD rear-projection set. And one plasma through AVS Classifieds. I subsidize my next set with the sale of the last one, makes upgrades less painful.

Oh man an SXRD rear projo?? Oh god. What a logistical nightmare.

Cup O' Tea? · Apr 3, 2018

RedlineRonin said:
Duuuuude R&C looks INCREDIBLE on my C7. No lie, playable Pixar movie tier.

lol I said the exact same thing playing R&C on my B7. Looks so nice.

demosthenes · Apr 3, 2018

RedlineRonin said:
Duuuuude R&C looks INCREDIBLE on my C7. No lie, playable Pixar movie tier.

Can't wait to replay R&C when I get my TV this summer.

trevofour · Apr 3, 2018

Any recommendations for a 32" monitor/TV for PS4? I'm using it for an arcade setup with the display roughly 2.5 feet away. Originally had a 40" Samsung MU6300 hooked up but it was too blurry in motion being so close. 4K isn't really needed.

Bumrush · Apr 3, 2018

RedlineRonin said:
That 900F 85 isn't bad. 5300 I think?

I would buy an 85" 900G next year in a heartbeat (and honestly i probably will). I'd love to see a few more zones on a panel that big but I'm a "size over PQ" guy now (within reason). Something about those 85"+ sets *starts sweating*

Biting on an 85" set around $5000 while mLED sorts itself out sounds like the perfect roadmap

-PXG- · Apr 3, 2018

Arih said:
Totally agree. When i got my C7 i watched Altered Carbon on Netflix and i was astounded. It looked better than my recent trip to the movies. So good.

Hopefully more movies/series come with dolby vision in the future.

Watching Altered Carbon on Netflix too. Finally managed to find a sweet spot for my HDR settings as well.

I'm very impressed with how it looks. Excellent HDR implementation. Highly recommend it.

Chamber · Apr 3, 2018

Really interested to see the 900G next year considering the 930 and 940 will probably get a refresh with the X1 Ultimate chip. Maybe 96 zones (similar to the 940D) with peak brightness around 1500 nits would be really nice for a midrange set.

Bumrush · Apr 3, 2018

Chamber said:
Really interested to see the 900G next year considering the 930 and 940 will probably get a refresh with the X1 Ultimate chip. Maybe 96 zones (similar to the 940D) with peak brightness around 1500 nits would be really nice for a midrange set.

Yup, agreed.

-PXG- · Apr 3, 2018

So I think I finally solved my HDR issues. I just tested The Witness, Destiny 2, Ratchet & Clank as well as Planet Earth II and Altered Carbon on Netflix. All range from pretty good, with some oversaturation to absolutely gorgeous.

The solution? Turning down my backlight. Doing that worked wonders. I can't believe that's all it took.

Television Displays and Technology Thread: The ERA of OLED is Now

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