her father forced her and her sisters to be lock in a towers so princes can save them so she breaks out to save them herself. here is the tv tropes page if you want more details
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Comicbook/Princeless
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Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Comicbook/Princeless
At the guy trying to save her though? It's just unnecessarily aggressive. Venting at the situation and the gender-coded nature of it, sure. But everything from the smug paneling to the lack of pushback from the knight reads like a parody made by people that will depict straw feminists constantly yelling at people while depicting the other side as perfectly well-behaved.
I also never heard "fair maiden" refer to specifically fair-skinned. I always just took it as beautiful growing up and looking it up it seems the meaning kind of shifted to that quite a while ago. It's like getting mad at someone for using the colloquial version of a word that has problematic origins.
Ah, so there's more context to it. Figured it was a one-off page like most webcomics (I guess this isn't a webcomic?)
Hmmm, looking at the YMMV page on the tvtropes page you linked me and it seems I'm not the only one that had that reaction about Andrienne. Guess it's just not for me.
It's fine if you don't understand. I know the formatting/posturing you're referencing though, and I can see why you might see parallels.
Will give it a read then thanksit's cute i liked what I've read, it pokes fun at a lot of fairy tale tropes (like locking the princess in the tower so the prince can save them) or this scene
if you have Comixology unlimited you can read the 3 volumes free
https://www.comixology.com/Princeless-Vol-1/comics-series/6870
This comicstrip is well drawn and has a valid point ruined by lazy strawman arguments.
Still the concept is intriguing enough to check out the rest.
Yet have you heard of the phrase Fair Skinned? To indicate pale or light skinned. The meaning of the word is still in common use.
The Maetel inspired Milia Rage is the only exception
Despite that or rather for this reason, women fighters are of the most iconic. Compare it to Tomb Raider's Lara Croft who started as an overinflated and buxomised polygon and ended up even promoting better writing for women characters
There are problems with Korean society in general. They were under military rule for years after all. Political prisoner torturers are free and unpunished. One reason they made the film series If You Were Me, to promote human rights awareness in Korean society.
Fair as a coded word for "fair-skinned" and/or "white" started with Snow White in "modern" historical culture. There's also coding for it in many older myths, particularly Greek and Roman, used largely as a way to segregate populations, particularly as a reasoning for slavery (so, basically the same way as it's used now).
The strip is about a woman who isn't white put into situations where she's told to be receptive to overtures she doesn't want, and overtures embedded with terms that devalue her as a human being because of her race. That's an incredibly common experience. The comic isn't to make anyone outside that experience feel nice about it, or to be an "intriguing" intellectual exercise for you. It's to vent and commiserate, highlighting the absurdity of both facets of the situation.
Sure, I just never made the connection with fair maiden, which seemed to be race-neutral and a general compliment about beauty. If that's not what the term means literally fair (heh) enough, but colloquially it certainly does and getting extremely abrasive over it (and standard fairy tale narratives in general) is what I'd expect out of a strawman, not someone making a legit point.
I know you had assumed this was a one page gag webcomic (not sure why as the link in the same post in the picture pointed to comixology) but this is 1 page out of a 240+ page story. It is set in the time when fair consistently only meant one thing.
But i think Gestault put it better than i could.
From the Fire Emblem thread, but man is the Xenoblade Chronicles 2 artist really not good with making any sort of competent female character design. The following is the character Celica from Fire Emblem Gaiden/Echoes. The one on the left is the original design, the one on the right is the one used in Echoes. The one in the middle is made by the XBC2 artist for Awakening's DLC.
...like....wow....what's annoying is that apparently the artist loved that design so much because like 99% of that is Pyra but younger.
...like....wow....what's annoying is that apparently the artist loved that design so much because like 99% of that is Pyra but younger.
Condescending much? My criticism wasn't about the message but it's delivery. Venting is valid, but can be done in a way that isn't insulting the readers intelligence. Again, I am currently reading more of this comic series and so far this snippet proved my suspicion that the author can do much better. Out of context this strip is nothing but a lame strawman. In context it still isn't particular clever, but at least it starts to work as part of a larger dissemination of tropes.
As an aside. I absolutely love the shading work. Stunning.
Was browsing through some episode discussion on AnimeList and saw a thread about how mediocre anime has become of late... and saw a giant deluge of posts about how, and I quote, "we love mediocrity."
I think this is something I've always thought, but to see hundreds of people all saying it together is... strange. It's like seeing a bunch of people together saying that they love McDonald's, rather than, you know, accepting its existence. It's weird to me to think that people would genuinely desire mediocrity.
I think this is something I've always thought, but to see hundreds of people all saying it together is... strange. It's like seeing a bunch of people together saying that they love McDonald's, rather than, you know, accepting its existence. It's weird to me to think that people would genuinely desire mediocrity.
Yeah, that's...strange. Though to be fair, my favorite comfort food is cheap ramen so I guess I could see why they would like it. Mediocrity is comforting I guess.
I don't think it's too farfetched. Everyone has a medium that they find comfort in, and will consume irregardless of quality. It's impossible for any medium to be of consistent high quality.
Though anime is not that medium for me, hence why I've stopped watching it for years now lol.
Though anime is not that medium for me, hence why I've stopped watching it for years now lol.
The eternal dilemma trying to find an audience for my New Weird-y fiction when all anyone wants to read about online are superheroes and geeks trapped in fantasy worlds (often with actual RPG stats. And harems.)...
I was watching some YouTube video last night where they were eating curry Cup Noodles, and it looked like the best thing in the world. Sure, I can get some of the best ramen in LA, but there's something to be said about low cost and convenience/accessibility. A bowl of Nong Shim black label or drive 20 miles for the real deal? I'm kinda lazy, so the former can and does win out usually. Not sure how that relates to the anime mediocrity thing when great stuff is equally accessible though. I wouldn't waste my time on mediocre games when there is such a wealth of excellence out there.
same, i've never in my life heard the word used to indicate someones skin colour was white. Nor have I ever seen anything imply it. I'm very sure I've heard in some parody most likely "we're looking for fair maidens have you seen any?" sounds ridiculous if you translate it to "we're looking for white women"
It doesn't just mean white women. It means high born white women: women who didn't go out into the fields to work and get sun tanned like a peasant. Fair maiden specifically referred to a young, aristocratic woman or at least someone who had that appearance. It's original usage had less to do with race than implied status, though obviously race would be directly associated in there as well.
Never associated "fair maiden" with anything but "pretty, aristocratic maiden" myself ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and I do find the way the rant is being portrayed as... kind of a caricature, at least out of context. I imagine the full comic adds more context to make it better though.
It's not meant to persuade or argue in any convincing fashion- it's targeted at people who already share its philosophical angle.
Well drawn. Not well written but it doesn't have to be.
I think it's less mediocrity and more familiarity. Familiar art, familiar tropes, familiar designs; there's something comforting about it after you've found your niche.
For a personal example tying it back into anime/manga, I'm a huge fan of battle shounen. Black Clover is an extremely derivative one that follows the tropes of the genre to a tee. It's almost impressive in how unoriginal it is. And yet, I like it a lot precisely for that familiarity.
Extending that to other people, I think it's just a combination of narrow tastes and enjoying what you know.
Not sure if exactly relevant but man the some of the armor in MHW is disappointing for the female characters
one example is Anjath the Trex monster or however you spell it.
after going a few rounds with this awesome monster you expect some bad ass armor from it's skin especially with it's high stats
nope it's a bikini
one example is Anjath the Trex monster or however you spell it.
after going a few rounds with this awesome monster you expect some bad ass armor from it's skin especially with it's high stats
nope it's a bikini
It's fully relevant and we discussed it previously, even, haha.
I made a male hunter in MHW because of that. Sigh. First time I do this.
Yeah, that's always meant "the prettier sex"* to me, not the "paler-skinned sex".
(*It's a lie, of course. :D )
The pale skin association to the word fair comes from two places. Fair skinned, means pale skinned and the classical association of paleness and high class. Darker skin (sun tan) means you are working class/peasants. It's implied rather than explicit in the classical use.
Again, its historical usage in media implies both "pretty" and "whiter", it's where the pale-skinned, blonde hair, blue eyes ideals come from. That those are "the most desirable traits" is a fabrication used by... well, a lot of highly despotic rulers throughout history, as well as imperialists, among others. And much of that fabrication comes from most of those writers being, unsurprisingly, white men (who were also writing for, historically, other white men, since many women were never taught or in some cases even allowed to learn to read).
I doubt that is the intended use today, especially in modern writing, but it is nevertheless still part of the implication when used rhetorically.
Nergigante female armor is fucking terrible too.
The male one looks like a dark badass overlord, the female one is basically "sexy barbarian bikini".
Apart from that, some are still good, but some are basically "we need that zettai ryouiki because it's more important for girls to look sexy when they fight" or "girls wear skirts and dresses, right, it's girly, we need girly for girls".
I know that I repeat myself and that it's repeated many times, but I'm so fucking glad that the Soulsborne series exists.
The male one looks like a dark badass overlord, the female one is basically "sexy barbarian bikini".
Apart from that, some are still good, but some are basically "we need that zettai ryouiki because it's more important for girls to look sexy when they fight" or "girls wear skirts and dresses, right, it's girly, we need girly for girls".
I know that I repeat myself and that it's repeated many times, but I'm so fucking glad that the Soulsborne series exists.
That's further from the "light-skinned" meaning and closer to just meaning attractive. There's overlap between the older meanings of "beautiful" and referring to light/blond complexion (and/or hair). Fæger is the closest (Old English/German) base word, which carries the racial connotation (equating the light skin/hair with the denoted beauty), though due to the attitudes at the time it was used generally to mean pleasing. If you're using the old language as a historical call-back, it carries the blunt of how it was used at that time to anyone aware of it. That's a situation where intent from an unaware modern speaker doesn't control the result if the audience is aware of it.
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As best I can tell, the "modern" usage (meaning "pretty") is also the original one, the usage of fair as meaning pale/blonde was derived from it because those traits were regarded as attractive.
I'd say its fantasy usage goes even a step beyond this, given that Drow in DnD are seen as particularly evil and wicked despite that mostly being a result of a brutal society rather than any inherent evil or monsterhood (as is the case for stuff like Liches or Phase Spiders).
So, particularly in the case of fantasy, dark skin (see: orcs, goblins, etc.) tends to be associated with evil while pale skin (elves in particular) tends to get associated with good. Like, particularly with Tolkien's classics, you'll notice that pretty much all good characters are pale-skinned and pretty much all bad characters are... well, not.
Additionally, females get treated as pretty much entirely incapable in most fantasy books. They very much follow that dumb adage of, "best seen, not heard". Which also happens to relate to a lot of the direct objectification they receive in modern fantasy. In highly stratified societies like Japan's, China's or Korea's, this sort of thing is even worse in their classical fiction (despite, ironically, females often serving in historically gendered roles in those societies, such as the military or administration - though much of this changed or evaporated post-WWII, particularly the possibility or desirability of a respectful, equal relationship).
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I'm not sure that would be the case because then the princess would be going off on the Knight for saying that he thought it meant beautiful. This being that she would associate all synonyms as being coded towards white.
I can't speak to what they're saying, but as a fan of anime, enough of a fan that I cohost an anime podcast, I will totally admit that there's a lot of shit I'd describe as... mediocre that I absolutely find comfortable to just absorb. Junk food, so to speak. Kinda like McDonald's, I guess!
I still prize the good shit out there (and there is a lot of good shit - I find some people's insistence that anime is all bad to be pretty irritating), but I also watched all of Dragon Ball Super and will continue to watch any new Dragon Ball content that comes out. Including that movie later this year golly gosh the animation looks so nice.
I only play Bloodborne but I do like the armor it probably helps that most are basically unisex but even the stuff like Knight set the female armor while not the most practical looks cool
I don't even necessarily mind revealing or impractical I like the Bones armor in MHW for example probably helps that it's basically the same for both genders because I like the look and aesthetics
it just the battle bikini stuff that's only there for sex appeal and are ugly
I agree, there's good stuff out there, but much like games, there's a lot of really bad shit too.
And, obnoxiously, it's almost always given the widest berth whenever it's a fantasy world. It is annoyingly common in fantasy worlds.
Like, Nioh is an interesting example because despite being some fantasy bullshit, the creators themselves mention that the character designs are the way they are because they wanted to be accurate to history. It's a really weird conundrum, that historical fiction will have those sorts of designs, whereas the trappings of "fantasy" to anything just allows it to fly off into idiocy whenever it's comfortable (and boy do a lot of creators of fantasy seem comfortable doing so).
Yeah, I'm not bothered when both genders get the same kind of armor. Bones armor is barbarian-style armor, so it's fine to have it because barbarian armor is a classic.
It's when there is a stark contrast between the armors that it pisses me off. Anjanath and Nergigante are the worst cases (men have full armor that covers their bodies completely but women get bikinis, who the fuck thought that was a good idea).
Yeah there's definitely a lot of shit, haha. Some of which I can enjoy, and some of which is too much for me. For sometimes the same reason, and sometimes wildly different reasons.
Anime sucks!!!
Japanese media in general has a big issue with using dark skin as visual shorthand for "corrupted by an evil power".
The Power of DARKNESS!!! turns you black. Kingdom Hearts FACT.
The Power of DARKNESS!!! turns you black. Kingdom Hearts FACT.
See also:
Evil:
Good:
Not that subtle here...
it would have been easier to just give her a full jacket and jeans (while even still showing stomach), jacket, chest covered,and jeans, .. I do not understand why the devs could not do that.
i genuinely hope Tifa from VII remake is not oversexualized. i thought they did well with Advent Childrens Tifa.
i genuinely hope Tifa from VII remake is not oversexualized. i thought they did well with Advent Childrens Tifa.
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