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Why has Xbox continually failed to perform well in Japan, and what can Microsoft do about it?
- Thread starter Deleted member 249
- Start date
Sony and Nintendo both have their HQs in Japan. Sega even has it's HQ in Japan.
Microsoft's HQ is in Redmond, Washington USA.
I wouldn't call it a racial divide. It's more of a cultural divide.
Microsoft's HQ is in Redmond, Washington USA.
I wouldn't call it a racial divide. It's more of a cultural divide.
I don't entirely think these examples are analogous. Sony in smartphones isn't going to compete with apple, and they're still second in market share from what I've read. Meaning if you don't have any strong japanese competitors in your market, you can succeed. Also, apple owes much of their success to softbank, the japanese company that made the iphone to japan for the most part.
Simiar story with KFC. KFC was brought in with the help of mitsubishi.
Not to mention that you can afford something that isn't for sale
So the OG Xbox's whole life span, and about 2 or 3 years of the 360's was only "a few years"? Honestly, I'd like to know what the people who think they haven't done enough would do if they were in their position.
OP
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Right, I do think branding is a major issue.
Which brings me back to, why do they alone have so many problems with getting a foothold in Japan? How has Apple, for instance, not had these problems? Or Amazon? Google?
That doesn't change anything in long term. PS4 is already back at 20K weekly numbers and tracking to sell less or stay flat in comparison to 2017. Microsoft would get some good sales for a month or two and get dropped again.
Microsoft would have to actually invest in a decade of in-house Japanese development (as in, making new Japanese development facilities and hiring Japanese talent to make Japanese games) for that to happen, and they are barely committed on that front in the States and UK.
The one time they had anything approaching mediocre success is when they moneyhatted a bunch of Japanese games, and that's just not sustainable long-term.
The one time they had anything approaching mediocre success is when they moneyhatted a bunch of Japanese games, and that's just not sustainable long-term.
Those were generational jumps, though. There hasn't been a situation where the Monster Hunter franchise has gone from multiplatform to exclusive within the same hardware generation. Why would Capcom throw away their guaranteed sales on Playstation for the gamble of maybe helping XBOX do better?
Well, they have okay sales somewhere. The US, Canada, and the UK probably make up the majority of their sales, but it's not like they make up 90% of them. At least, I doubt it. But again, that's not really my point. I was just responding to someone framing the markets by individual countries, and my point was that often, people don't frame the markets that way, so it would make sense to see Japan as not worth the effort anymore.
Also, what's this about ceding India and China to PlayStation? I'm genuinely asking. I was under the impression that no video game console has successfully penetrated those markets. Whoever does first will surely the be generation leader, considering the insane population between the two. That's what I mean by the potential benefits being more worth the near-impossible task than trying yet again to penetrate the shrinking Japanese market.
How in the world is Playstashun 5 racist?
Was a joke about how company A would have to name their product after company B's competing product in order to be successful.
Any racist undertones your picking up are entirely your own projections.
Would it be racist if I said Microsoft should have renamed the Zune the EyePod?
That problem is not specific for Japan though, outside of the US and some European countries their console isn't doing much, Middle East for an example is a largely Sony dominated market, I don't know what they are doing there (that is if they are doing anything) but it certainly isn't working.
So my factually correct argument is wrong because if you change the conditions(sales per individual country) it is no longer the case ?
You are saying Japan is irrelevant, because you group multiple countries into one Market, while leaving Japan as a single country to push your point ?
How does that make any sense ?
As for which country to focus on, you are oversimplifying it greatly.
Just look at Sony, MS competitor:
Japan has a population of 126 million people, and so far PS4 has sold 6 million units there.
In India a country with more than a billion people, PS4 has sold less than a million units there.
The development of the gaming market of a country is way more important than raw population numbers.
Japan has been a big country for Consoles for decades, and while their share of the sales has shrunk, it still accounts for ~9% of all consoles sold, so ignoring that market is a stupid idea.
A good company does not blame 9% of its potential customers for not wanting its goods, it tries to change and market its goods so the customers want to buy it.
Lol I just realized that Xbox One X has three X's. It's eXXXtr3me.
But if you're going to focus on Japan and the video game console market, I do think it's a bad idea to discount simple national pride. As a factor.
Ok
Are my thoughts on the Xbox's failure accurate or did you quote my whole post just to point out one small error?
This is what I'm saying. The iPhone sells tons in Japan especially over Samsung and it's not secret that Japan and Korea have some issues. So is it straight racism? Nope imo. But I definitely sense there being a biased against the Xbox in general compared to Japanese makers in the console sphere. I could understand devs being super friendly with Sony and Nintendo due to cultural similarities but I don't see an argument for racism. Being American isn't a race after all.
Does it really matter? Japan is the exact opposite of a growth market in consoles. It's the absolute last place to worry about. They should be putting more of a focus on South America and probably even Africa than Japan, at this point.
The attempt was made, it failed. In the interim, the Japanese market largely moved away from console gaming, and is now set on a course for enormous contractions in general due to a graying population. It doesn't have appreciable market growth potential like China or India. There's no longer any reason to treat it as a completely unique area of focus compared to similar-sized economies with actual projected growth.
The attempt was made, it failed. In the interim, the Japanese market largely moved away from console gaming, and is now set on a course for enormous contractions in general due to a graying population. It doesn't have appreciable market growth potential like China or India. There's no longer any reason to treat it as a completely unique area of focus compared to similar-sized economies with actual projected growth.
I dunno bout all that.
Looking at the past 3 generations there certainly seems to be a strong cultural bias (in gaming) that makes it next to impossible for MS to make any significant headway in Japan.
Me believes that alot of Xbox fans will buy PS4 just for Spider man, the damn thing looks amazing. But yeah i understand if the issue is financial one.
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Speaking specifically for India (since that's where I am from), Xbox launched big in India with the Xbox 360, big marketing lineup, lots of games, generally reasonable pricing, against the PS3 which was stupidly overpriced and launched with the same kinds of issues it did elsewhere in the world (and launched later). Xbox did okay in India, mostly because there is no console gaming culture in the country, which I assume wasn't good enough for Microsoft, so by late 2007, Microsoft stopped trying, leading to a drop in marketing, a collapse in distribution networks and deals, and minimal post launch support for what are pretty expensive hardware purchases. Meanwhile Sony just kept steadily pushing PlayStation in India, first with PS2 and PSP as budget priced alternatives, and excellent marketing (including actual targeted marketing), locally developed games (look up Singstar Bollywood, as one example), and amazing post launch support (Sony has an enviable network of distribution and support in India); then once the PS3's price dropped, pushing that instead, and the PS3 ended up outselling Xbox 360 by the end of the consoles' life cycles.
When the PS4 and Xbox One were launching, Sony put the PS4 out with a lot of pizzaz and full support, and a simultaneous launch. When Xbox One was launching, it came a year late, and was sold exclusively through Amazon India, with zero retail presence. Not only did that kill the console's prospects in India beforehand, but major games such as Fortnite are not even available on Xbox One in the country.
In terms of the larger question of "what console penetrated the Indian market?" None. But within the parameters of the existing market? Microsoft blew it.
FFXIII came out on the 360 in Japan at the end of 2010. It was a year late, but it came out.
I think that had more to do with a shift in direction than abandoning Japan, though. Because the last major Japanese Xbox-exclusive (Star Ocean) came prior to the introduction of the Kinect. After that, they lost a pretty sizable chunk of their audience. Personally, I know maybe a handful of people among hundreds, who stuck with Xbox after the shift to Kinect. And these people were all-in on Xbox 360 prior to that point. I can't imagine that isn't representative at some point of both Microsoft's domestic audience as well as their international one. I'm not trying to move goalposts because I don't really care what MS does, it ain't affecting my pockets, but they did undergo a major shift in direction and I think that isn't something that can be overlooked either. They had a nice showcase at E3 but it's probably a wrap in terms of their days of getting exclusives out of Japan. I hope it isn't because man they had some really great partnerships back in the 2000s, but hey if they don't pick up those games, someone else will, at the end of the day.
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Sorry, it is just a point that I have addressed throughout so I figured I would tackle the new factor in your post :P
I do think your analysis, while sound, is flawed, because while Microsoft made an effort, I don't think it made a sustained effort, which is ultimately what is necessary.
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Ah, you are right. Well that hardly helps haha.
Yeah, I think one of the issues Microsoft has had is the turmoil the company as a whole has had with its leadership since the late 2000s; multiple realignments with larger company visions, plus changing conceptions of what Microsoft wants Xbox itself to be has led to a whole host of false starts for the brand everywhere worldwide.
I know what you meant, but the OP literally asked what could MS do. MS isn't going to do anything.
Also, you should double check your post before being a smartass :)
Their screwups with X1 REALLY cost them Japan, probably permanently.
Cliffs, but this in no way is comprehensive :
-Japan is becoming more mobile centric. This is something that harms PS home consoles as well.
-Original X1 was HUGE, and the push for adding in the kinect was just salt in the wound : massive console + comes with a big external power brick + comes with a wired chunky kinect piece? Not a good look for Japan
-Original X1 was $$$. $100 more than PS4, with no exclusives that cater to Japan market.
-360 ended the gen with decidedly lower JP output than the first few years of the gen. Xbox customers there probably felt a bit let down in the long term, dimming expectations even before X1 was released.
-Post X1 launch there really was a long period of time where X1 japanese releases were extremely rare, and those that did come out had massively lower attach rates. Basically anything multiplayer was doomed to have nearly nobody to play with. Even now, Monster Hunter didn't bother with Asian XB release. This isn't a moneyhat issue, there simply aren't enough XB customers in the region to support an online-centric co-op heavy title.
Etc. Their only real inroads to JP in the future would be to go Gamepass with Switch. I'm serious.
Cliffs, but this in no way is comprehensive :
-Japan is becoming more mobile centric. This is something that harms PS home consoles as well.
-Original X1 was HUGE, and the push for adding in the kinect was just salt in the wound : massive console + comes with a big external power brick + comes with a wired chunky kinect piece? Not a good look for Japan
-Original X1 was $$$. $100 more than PS4, with no exclusives that cater to Japan market.
-360 ended the gen with decidedly lower JP output than the first few years of the gen. Xbox customers there probably felt a bit let down in the long term, dimming expectations even before X1 was released.
-Post X1 launch there really was a long period of time where X1 japanese releases were extremely rare, and those that did come out had massively lower attach rates. Basically anything multiplayer was doomed to have nearly nobody to play with. Even now, Monster Hunter didn't bother with Asian XB release. This isn't a moneyhat issue, there simply aren't enough XB customers in the region to support an online-centric co-op heavy title.
Etc. Their only real inroads to JP in the future would be to go Gamepass with Switch. I'm serious.
Xbox just feels like it's always been a brand to serve specifically US sensibilities. And even there, a very particular subset of US gamers with its focus on things like sports, shooters, and integration of ESPN, etc.
It's just not a global brand. Even when they tried with 360, it felt like they were out of their depth given how quickly they dropped the JRPG support and most reverted back to what they do.
I'd also be interested in seeing how Xbox-One's heinous launch proposition was received in Japan (and EU) assuming JP gamers cared enough about the platform to even have an opinion.
It's just not a global brand. Even when they tried with 360, it felt like they were out of their depth given how quickly they dropped the JRPG support and most reverted back to what they do.
I'd also be interested in seeing how Xbox-One's heinous launch proposition was received in Japan (and EU) assuming JP gamers cared enough about the platform to even have an opinion.
Can we stop with the racism thing? Western games are selling well in Japan.
We don't call americans racist for not buying handhelds or big japanese hits like Yo-Kai Watch. This is just silly. This is sounding like everyone in the world should prefer american products just because they're american.
We don't call americans racist for not buying handhelds or big japanese hits like Yo-Kai Watch. This is just silly. This is sounding like everyone in the world should prefer american products just because they're american.
Nothing. Japan isn't a big enough market for them to bother with to be honest. They should focus on North America and Europe.
Dude, I wasn't "pushing my point," I was explaining why someone else--including Microsoft--might see it that way. Your classification as individual countries isn't the only way to see it. Navigating laws and other general localization and distribution is the challenge of expanding into a market. With Japan, you have to do that on a per-country basis. For countries in the EU, the countries are commercially tied together insomuch that the EU is generally considered a single market, even if languages and other localizations need to be tailored for each country.
But either way, it wasn't my point. You seemed dumbfounded by that guy's post, so I was explaining where he may be coming from.
This is super interesting. Thanks.
Now, we've seen consoles reach brand new audiences before (PS2, Wii, and DS all succeeded in doing so), often expanding the industry with it, breaking through to people who aren't/weren't already part of the potential audience. What sort of thing do you think could be done to potentially break into India, despite the current lack of gaming culture? How could a company create such a culture?
To be fair, the late ports of Tales of Vesperia and Star Ocean (and Eternal Sonata, woof) did better on PS3 than on 360. Which is just further ammo for how little people in Japan wanted to buy 360s last gen.
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The first part of my post is dedicated to explaining why Japan is a big enough market for them to bother with.
Do they though ?
If you look at XB360 sales for Europe, it sold 13.7 million,lifetime, which while respectable is kinda meh if you remove the 8 million it sold in the UK(a country that is very much English, despite the other few kingdoms hanging on it).
MS is gonna fail pretty hard in mainland Europe too if they don't do something that is not nothing.
Honest answer: Don't do anything.
- If you leave the market, japanese companies will be super pissed because they would take on a personal level, like Microsoft isn't respecting the japanese gaming industry enough and you might end up losing key third party games like Final Fantasy.
- If you try to push it, they won't care, Xbox won't sell anyway.
I'd say if you really want to give it a try, they should solve MOQ problems: Japan is still a market that revolves around merchandising, niche limited editions,... minor publishers literally said that the reason why they stay away from Xbox is minimal order quantities.
- If you leave the market, japanese companies will be super pissed because they would take on a personal level, like Microsoft isn't respecting the japanese gaming industry enough and you might end up losing key third party games like Final Fantasy.
- If you try to push it, they won't care, Xbox won't sell anyway.
I'd say if you really want to give it a try, they should solve MOQ problems: Japan is still a market that revolves around merchandising, niche limited editions,... minor publishers literally said that the reason why they stay away from Xbox is minimal order quantities.
You should read the eurogamer article from 2012 somebody linked to on a previous page. As much as you may not like to admit it, there seems to be an element of regional bias you could trace back to national origin. The Japanese had a lot of negative opinions on the Xbox before it even launched; it didn't really get a fair shake no matter how hard Microsoft pushed. Yes, MS made mistakes and the article touches on many, but being "American" definitely played into its failure there. They viewed it as an American or Western console that just happened to be available in Japan, not a serious competitor to Sony, Nintendo, and Sega.
At this point I think it's too late. Dedicated consoles aren't doing all that great in Japan as is.
Not big enough for the mountains they would need to move to make inroads in that region. They simply don't have the global cache. They will never be PlayStation or Nintendo in that regard, but that doesn't mean they can't be successful by focusing on the regions where they have some traction.
Lol.
Anyway its sad these threads have so little of worth. A bunch of fanboys pulling theories out their ass and looking stupid.
One of the most popular (if not THE most popular) gaming devices in Japan currently is the iPhone.
Everyone would get their tits in a twist over it, but they'd have to aggressively moneyhat Japanese games.
For tradition and appearances at this point. They pushed hard with the OG Xbox and the 360 but Japan wasn't biting.
I truly believe the Japanese market simply has no interest in an American made video game console when they have their own heavy hitters with Sony and Nintendo.
Microsoft could give Japan the world, so to speak, and I'm not sure it would do them much good.
It's a shame imo, but it is what it is, I think.
MS already failed hard in Europe.
A while ago i read article about Switch being close or already outsold Xbox One in France, Spain and Germany.