Apple |OT|

New iPads June or fall? If they're going with new chassis for no home button, wouldnt' we start to see component leaks by now? And ipad has always had a non-regular release cycle.
If fall I might buy one now

Edit: considering the prices here in Japan I might just switch to buying whenever I'm here. Usually Christmas or Easter. Gives me time to avoid the knee jerk buying impulse too (who am I kidding)

Microcenter has the base 10.5 Pro for $499. It's a no-brainer to get that instead of the 2018 "education" iPad for $309 (realistically $4xx with 64 GB of storage), right?

My current iPad (Mini 2/Retina) works well enough for my ~3 year old and kind of works for me (media playback is fine, games are okay, Safari is eh). I'd like to upgrade while Best Buy is offering $125+ trade value.

I do have Android and Windows tablets, but they're definitely not suitable for my kid (Android is too janky/convoluted -- no smart cover, no home button, overlapping audio/video playback, poor edge touch rejection; Windows is a non-starter for kids apps alone, let alone the UI, but also suffers from those Android issues).

The red iPhone 8 and 8 plus look gorgeous with the black front.

There is no red iPhone X.

Fuck this timeline.

2019 iPhone X to have a third lens?

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/09/iphone-triple-lens-rear-camera-2019-rumor/

While it sounds weird to have a 2x and 3x lens, I'm all for improvements on that front.

I asked in the iPhone X thread, but this may be a better place.

Does anyone know if there is a solution to the 'halo effect' of glass screen protectors for iPhone 8, or if the 8 Plus has the same problem?
This thing is driving me nuts, I love the smaller size, but can't live with those air bubbles

I'm all for more optical zoom.

I can already see some BS like third lens being restricted to the plus model only (or if this "three models a year" thing is legit from now on, then the plus model and the other smaller-yet-pricer model).

dallow_bg said:

I'm all for more optical zoom.

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I'll take it, but I'm not excited about it. I'd be more curious about how it will impact AR.

We're on the Gillette razor path where we're going to get an iPhone with seven lenses.

When is the next upgrade for the MacBook Pros scheduled for?

I don't need it but I am sick of my MBA. It is 6 years old and it was the best laptop I have ever owned and until I got the iMac 5K it was the best computer I have ever owned. But all good things come to an end and now I want that new shit.

I want something portable but that 15" screen sings to me. Does it suck lugging the 15" around every day? The 13" is not much heavier than my Air and I am leaning towards that.

Is that touch thing going to stay in the new ones? I think it looks rad but no one seems to like it.

Vuze said:

While it sounds weird to have a 2x and 3x lens, I'm all for improvements on that front.

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Strange but I'm the same - any significant effort in improving the camera is welcome

Zeyphersan said:

The red iPhone 8 and 8 plus look gorgeous with the black front.

There is no red iPhone X.

Fuck this timeline.

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I imagine it makes more sense to give the iPhone 8 the mid-cycle bump; I would expect that'll be the tradition going forward if the iPhone X/premium SKU continues.

MrKlaw said:

Strange but I'm the same - any significant effort in improving the camera is welcome

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I think this is just the reality of feature prioritization. Even though the iPhone X is slightly thicker, no consumer is going to want phones thick enough to put a great variable lens into. So having multiple fixed length lens gets around the space limitations.

Considering that the two big weaknesses of phones as your only camera are zoom and low light performance, tackling either sounds great.

My wife got an iPhone X and the amount of times the 2x zoom comes in handy is pretty impressive. It also widens the range of getting a decent tourist photo without just ending up with a tiny terrible snapshot.

bionic77 said:

When is the next upgrade for the MacBook Pros scheduled for?

I don't need it but I am sick of my MBA. It is 6 years old and it was the best laptop I have ever owned and until I got the iMac 5K it was the best computer I have ever owned. But all good things come to an end and now I want that new shit.

I want something portable but that 15" screen sings to me. Does it suck lugging the 15" around every day? The 13" is not much heavier than my Air and I am leaning towards that.

Is that touch thing going to stay in the new ones? I think it looks rad but no one seems to like it.

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Safe bet is the MBP gets updated either at WWDC in June (last two revisions) or in August/September/October for the holidays/school. My guess is if the touch bar is gonna be dead and gone, it ain't gonna be in this revision.

MrKlaw said:

New iPads June or fall? If they're going with new chassis for no home button, wouldnt' we start to see component leaks by now? And ipad has always had a non-regular release cycle.
If fall I might buy one now

Edit: considering the prices here in Japan I might just switch to buying whenever I'm here. Usually Christmas or Easter. Gives me time to avoid the knee jerk buying impulse too (who am I kidding)

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I think new iPads fall myself. No idea about the leaks; I am curious how much the iPads will follow the X design, just because of factors like how they are usable in more orientations than the phone.

emag said:

Microcenter has the base 10.5 Pro for $499. It's a no-brainer to get that instead of the 2018 "education" iPad for $309 (realistically $4xx with 64 GB of storage), right?

My current iPad (Mini 2/Retina) works well enough for my ~3 year old and kind of works for me (media playback is fine, games are okay, Safari is eh). I'd like to upgrade while Best Buy is offering $125+ trade value.

I do have Android and Windows tablets, but they're definitely not suitable for my kid (Android is too janky/convoluted -- no smart cover, no home button, overlapping audio/video playback, poor edge touch rejection; Windows is a non-starter for kids apps alone, let alone the UI, but also suffers from those Android issues).

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For me I'd say it's worth it. You get a superior display and more RAM in a svelter package. Considering you can make up most of the price difference via the tradein it seems like a good deal.

fuchsdh said:

Safe bet is the MBP gets updated either at WWDC in June (last two revisions) or in August/September/October for the holidays/school. My guess is if the touch bar is gonna be dead and gone, it ain't gonna be in this revision.

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I really don't have a ton of hands on experience with the touch bar, but from afar I always thought it looked badass and the one time I screwed around with it in an Apple store it felt really nice. The display was amazing for the screen and the touch bar.

Still don't know whether I will get the 13 or 15".

bionic77 said:

I really don't have a ton of hands on experience with the touch bar, but from afar I always thought it looked badass and the one time I screwed around with it in an Apple store it felt really nice. The display was amazing for the screen and the touch bar.

Still don't know whether I will get the 13 or 15".

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I think the problem with the touchbar is A) it gets rid of the escape key (that's the only physical key I wish they'd bring back), and B) it's not on any other products. If you made a touchbar a Mac-wide option that would drive adoption and more interesting uses for it, but right now I see developers being gunshy because it's only available on two MBP models and nowhere else.

Most software has touch bar applications. However I rarely use it. The most useful thing about the touch bar is Touch ID.

I think the touch bar is already very useful. My problem is that I'm so used to living without it, and I only use my TB computer about 10% or my computer time, so that I haven't put the time in to figure out how to make it useful.

bionic77 said:

When is the next upgrade for the MacBook Pros scheduled for?

I don't need it but I am sick of my MBA. It is 6 years old and it was the best laptop I have ever owned and until I got the iMac 5K it was the best computer I have ever owned. But all good things come to an end and now I want that new shit.

I want something portable but that 15" screen sings to me. Does it suck lugging the 15" around every day? The 13" is not much heavier than my Air and I am leaning towards that.

Is that touch thing going to stay in the new ones? I think it looks rad but no one seems to like it.

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The issue that the community has with the Touch Bar is that 18 months after the introduction of the Touch Bar, it still feels like a marketing gimmick. The best use I've seen of the Touch Bar is a custom solution using BetterTouchTool. I'm annoyed that Apple ties Touch ID to the Touch Bar, meaning that the cheapest Mac with biometric authentication starts at $1799. Meanwhile the $329 iPad has Touch ID.

Since you've got a powerful desktop at home, I would recommend the 13" MBP. No reason to deal with the added weight of the 15 unless you absolutely need it. The non-Touch Bar 13" is the spiritual successor to the MBA, using the same processors as the MBA did.

Is it me or did Apple quietly add Night Mode to MacOS?

I sometimes invert colors when viewing text that have white backgrounds on my Mac. However, I noticed that the colors in pictures are no longer inverted. This seems to be similar to Smart Invert on iOS. devices.

thebigcountry said:

The issue that the community has with the Touch Bar is that 18 months after the introduction of the Touch Bar, it still feels like a marketing gimmick. The best use I've seen of the Touch Bar is a custom solution using BetterTouchTool. I'm annoyed that Apple ties Touch ID to the Touch Bar, meaning that the cheapest Mac with biometric authentication starts at $1799. Meanwhile the $329 iPad has Touch ID.

Since you've got a powerful desktop at home, I would recommend the 13" MBP. No reason to deal with the added weight of the 15 unless you absolutely need it. The non-Touch Bar 13" is the spiritual successor to the MBA, using the same processors as the MBA did.

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Wait - so the base MBP has a crappy CPU like the MBA? So it's more a MacBook than a pro? And the MacBook Air is the light and portable one, except now the MacBook is lighter and more portable (and with a better screen)

Apple really needs to sort out their laptop family naming. Kill the MBA and make the pros minimum quad core (almost a free gift with 8th gen Intel chips) and have at least one semi-affordable MacBook that isn't dog slow

MrKlaw said:

Wait - so the base MBP has a crappy CPU like the MBA?

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The non-touchbar MBP has a low-wattage CPU the way the MBA did. In practice/most scenarios, it's only ~10% slower than the higher wattage CPU in the other MBP models and way newer/faster than the old MBA processor.

MrKlaw said:

Wait - so the base MBP has a crappy CPU like the MBA? So it's more a MacBook than a pro? And the MacBook Air is the light and portable one, except now the MacBook is lighter and more portable (and with a better screen)

Apple really needs to sort out their laptop family naming. Kill the MBA and make the pros minimum quad core (almost a free gift with 8th gen Intel chips) and have at least one semi-affordable MacBook that isn't dog slow

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Yes, the non-Touchbar MBPs have a 15W CPU, same class as in the MBA. Touchbar models get the 27W chips that MBPs traditionally have.

Was trying to find some posts online but I mainly run into posts about the front screen. To anyone running with the 8/X run the phone without a case, how's the back of the phone holding up? I hate having cases on my phone, even though the leather Apple one is nice. I'm scared of the glass back getting all scratched up though. I loved my 6S Plus since I always ran it without a case and it was in pristine condition, but I hate having to baby my X.

I am tempted to buy a new iPad, just finding it hard to choose between the Pro and 2018 version. Can anyone help me decide?

Bond said:

I am tempted to buy a new iPad, just finding it hard to choose between the Pro and 2018 version. Can anyone help me decide?

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The Pro has 120hz is that important to you?
The Pro screen is also laminated and has an anti-reflective coating.
The Pro also has 4gigs of ram compared to the 2 on the 2018 model.

Heysoos said:

Was trying to find some posts online but I mainly run into posts about the front screen. To anyone running with the 8/X run the phone without a case, how's the back of the phone holding up? I hate having cases on my phone, even though the leather Apple one is nice. I'm scared of the glass back getting all scratched up though. I loved my 6S Plus since I always ran it without a case and it was in pristine condition, but I hate having to baby my X.

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My 8 Plus got tons of micro scratches on both sides but nothing you would see under regular lightning conditions.

Enzom21 said:

The Pro has 120hz is that important to you?
The Pro screen is also laminated and has an anti-reflective coating.

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I want to use it for multimedia and browsing. A better screen would be ideal, but the price of iPad 2018 is attractive.

Bond said:

I want to use it for multimedia and browsing. A better screen would be ideal, but the price of iPad 2018 is attractive.

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If price is a major factor, go with the 2018. If screen quality and power are the major factor, go with the Pro.


You can grab a refurbished Pro.
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/FQDT2LL/A/refurbished-105-inch-ipad-pro-wi-fi-64gb-space-gray

Enzom21 said:

If price is a major factor, go with the 2018. If screen quality and power are the major factor, go with the Pro.


You can grab a refurbished Pro.
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/FQDT2LL/A/refurbished-105-inch-ipad-pro-wi-fi-64gb-space-gray

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I'm probably going to give my decision a few days, but I am warming up towards the iPad Pro with Pencil. As my carrier is doing a deal on the devices

Bond said:

I'm probably going to give my decision a few days, but I am warming up towards the iPad Pro with Pencil. As my carrier is doing a deal on the devices

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Note that the 2018 iPad can also use Pencil.

Bond said:

I want to use it for multimedia and browsing. A better screen would be ideal, but the price of iPad 2018 is attractive.

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The iPad Pro is definitely better, but if you aren't going to use the iPad for anything intensive then the standard iPad is good enough and a better value.

detuned radios said:

The iPad Pro is definitely better, but if you aren't going to use the iPad for anything intensive then the standard iPad is good enough and a better value.

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I would guess that the iPad Pro will have a longer ecosystem lifespan and possibly hold its resale value better though, as the 2018 iPad is largely made from aging parts.

Bond said:

I want to use it for multimedia and browsing. A better screen would be ideal, but the price of iPad 2018 is attractive.

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Follow your local eBay etc for good deals on the 9.7" Pro is my advice. Prices should be around of that of the 2018 iPad and the only downside is A9X vs A10 + perhaps some slight usage.
I got one that was first activated in December 2017 with the Pencil (and other accessories like case and screen protectors) for 370€; that's vs 350€ MSRP for the iPad 2018. So good deals are definitely to be found.
The 10,5 pro is way superior though if you want to afford it (120hz + 2GB extra RAM... Tim Crook really came through on that one with the measly 2GB on the 9.7 Pro + screen size + A10X which is a huge boost etc).

Bond said:

I might pull the trigger today, is there going to be any new iPad devices this year?

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Yeah, most likely new Pros revealed at WWDC in two months time.

detuned radios said:

The iPad Pro is definitely better, but if you aren't going to use the iPad for anything intensive then the standard iPad is good enough and a better value.

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I might pull the trigger today, is there going to be any new iPad devices this year?

eyeball_kid said:

I would guess that the iPad Pro will have a longer ecosystem lifespan and possibly hold its resale value better though, as the 2018 iPad is largely made from aging parts.

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I'd be surprised if there's any real difference in longevity - they're both "A10"s, and Apple dropped the A5X and A6X at the same time as their non-X counterparts. Resale value will probably be better though, yeah.

Bond said:

I might pull the trigger today, is there going to be any new iPad devices this year?

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There will likely be an iPad Pro refresh later this year - possibly at WWDC in June, but the rumor mill seems a bit dry for it to be that soon, so it may be in the fall.

detuned radios said:

I'd be surprised if there's any real difference in longevity - they're both "A10"s, and Apple dropped the A5X and A6X at the same time as their non-X counterparts. Resale value will probably be better though, yeah.



There will likely be an iPad Pro refresh later this year - possibly at WWDC in June, but the rumor mill seems a bit dry for it to be that soon, so it may be in the fall.

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Makes sense, but doubt they will do an iPhone X style revision any time soon. I can live with an outdated device in theory for the next several years until the drastic upgrade.

Venting here.

I ordered the silver 10.5 Pro online through Staples (pricematched to MC), but changed my mind, cancelled the order, and selected a different color. Staples promptly cancelled that, saying that I ran afoul of Apple's bulk reseller guidelines (i.e., I appeared to be buying in bulk for resale). Customer support got me nowhere, and neither did using a different account and address (same cardholder name).

The iPad was going to be a present to myself, but now I'm just soured on the whole experience. I'm not feeling charitable to either Staples or Apple for this situation and the waste of my lunch hour.

Maybe I'll calmly re-evaluate later. Maybe.

Edit: Three hours later, I reordered with my spouse's name and card. Seems good so far. At a bit under $500 (including tax and cashback), it's hard to resist.

Not sure why you're blaming Apple for what is obviously Staples being shady. If you had done the same thing on Apple's site there would have been no issue.

eyeball_kid said:

Not sure why you're blaming Apple for what is obviously Staples being shady. If you had done the same thing on Apple's site there would have been no issue.

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"Hi ---

We would like to inform you that your order has not been processed as it exceeds Apple Bulk purchasing guidelines. Please be advised that we are not allowed to sell Apple products in bulk..."

Yes, Staples screwed up flagging me as a bulk purchaser, but Apple seems to require these restrictions of its retail partners.

Besides, resentment is not entirely rational. I'm not going to pay an extra $200 to order directly from Apple on what is, for my purposes, a toy upgrade. That definitely won't make me feel better.

Bond said:

Makes sense, but doubt they will do an iPhone X style revision any time soon. I can live with an outdated device in theory for the next several years until the drastic upgrade.

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Bloomberg reported that there will be an X-style redesign with minimal bezels and Face ID for the iPad, releasing in the summer. I'm a little skeptical since I wonder how Apple would get Face ID working for both portrait and landscape in just 6 months after the introduction of Face ID.

thebigcountry said:

Bloomberg reported that there will be an X-style redesign with minimal bezels and Face ID for the iPad, releasing in the summer. I'm a little skeptical since I wonder how Apple would get Face ID working for both portrait and landscape in just 6 months after the introduction of Face ID.

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I mean, I don't want to sound like a backseat dev, but that seems like a trivial task for Apple if they set themselves to do it. Didn't bother too much on the iPhone X because it is by design a portrait oriented device with several other portrait-locked UI elements, including the lock screen, while happening to support landscape in apps.

emag said:

"Hi ---

We would like to inform you that your order has not been processed as it exceeds Apple Bulk purchasing guidelines. Please be advised that we are not allowed to sell Apple products in bulk..."

Yes, Staples screwed up flagging me as a bulk purchaser, but Apple seems to require these restrictions of its retail partners.

Besides, resentment is not entirely rational. I'm not going to pay an extra $200 to order directly from Apple on what is, for my purposes, a toy upgrade. That definitely won't make me feel better.

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Yeah, but it seems like you were improperly flagged. Bulk isn't 2 units. I've bought more than that at once.

jts said:

I mean, I don't want to sound like a backseat dev, but that seems like a trivial task for Apple if they set themselves to do it. Didn't bother too much on the iPhone X because it is by design a portrait oriented device with several other portrait-locked UI elements, including the lock screen, while happening to support landscape in apps.

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I dunno, it seems like a huge challenge to overcome.

Forcing people to rotate their iPad to portrait mode to authenticate with Face ID would be clunky and unacceptable imo. Especially since those keyboard attachment cases are very popular among iPad owners. Try rotating your laptop sideways, it's not easy.

And when I hold my current iPad in landscape mode, which is how I use it 99% of the time, my left thumb typically rests on the bezel often obstructing the facetime camera. That's going to be even more of an issue since they are eliminating the bezels and your palm(s) are going to be covering the left and right side of the screen where the Face ID camera would normally be.

Pretty much the only solution I can see is two Face ID cameras. But that adds a lot of cost and complexity on both the hardware and software side. The OS would have to figure out which camera is obstructed and which camera to use etc. Maybe the user would have to do FaceID setup twice, one for each camera? And also on the software side, the iPhone X style swipe up for home screen gesture is already in use on iPad for multi-tasking and control center. So they'd have to change that too. That's probably one of the easier problems to solve but still a big change.

I think it's a difficult problem to solve, I'm curious to see how they do it.

What exactly is the technical issue behind not being able to use FaceID in landscape?

I'm sure they can patch it in via software. I highly doubt it's a hardware thing.

SeanM said:

I dunno, it seems like a huge challenge to overcome.

Forcing people to rotate their iPad to portrait mode to authenticate with Face ID would be clunky and unacceptable imo. Especially since those keyboard attachment cases are very popular among iPad owners. Try rotating your laptop sideways, it's not easy.

And when I hold my current iPad in landscape mode, which is how I use it 99% of the time, my left thumb typically rests on the bezel often obstructing the facetime camera. That's going to be even more of an issue since they are eliminating the bezels and your palm(s) are going to be covering the left and right side of the screen where the Face ID camera would normally be.

Pretty much the only solution I can see is two Face ID cameras. But that adds a lot of cost and complexity on both the hardware and software side. The OS would have to figure out which camera is obstructed and which camera to use etc. Maybe the user would have to do FaceID setup twice, one for each camera? And also on the software side, the iPhone X style swipe up for home screen gesture is already in use on iPad for multi-tasking and control center. So they'd have to change that too. That's probably one of the easier problems to solve but still a big change.

I think it's a difficult problem to solve, I'm curious to see how they do it.

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I'm not suggesting that they should make iPad users turn their iPads to portrait to authenticate, I'm saying they could get away with it with the iPhone because the iPhone is a portrait device, implying that part of reason it doesn't work in landscape in the iPhone X is because they didn't have to bother to do it.

For the iPad they can make either the stored values rotate to match current orientation of the device, or make the current read rotate to match the orientation of the stored value. I understand this all needs to be done in a secure manner and that the rotating calculations may add some lag to the process, but still, if Apple can't do that, I don't have much faith in anything anymore.

dallow_bg said:

What exactly is the technical issue behind not being able to use FaceID in landscape?

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This is how a lot of people hold the iPad in landscape mode (I believe this is an official Apple marketing image). Note how in this pic the users left thumb is covering up the camera.



But aside from that, iPads are often placed in peoples laps, so it is a bigger distance away from the camera (2-3 feet?) and at weird angles. When the iPad is in your lap the camera can probably only see the bottom of your chin or just part of your face. A good way to test this is by launching an app like Photo Booth on your iPad and look at what it can (and more importantly cannot) see. It won't have a clear image of your face when it's sitting in your lap.

I think it's much more difficult to figure out than a cell phone.

I don't want a bezel-free or reduced iPad. If they remove the bezels, How am I going to hold and use it? 10.5 inch iPad Pro with its reduction is more than enough. keeps the device small, and fully usable.

It is so absurd that the 1080p Apple TV is still $149.

SeanM said:

This is how a lot of people hold the iPad in landscape mode (I believe this is an official Apple marketing image). Note how in this pic the users left thumb is covering up the camera.

But aside from that, iPads are often placed in peoples laps, so it is a bigger distance away from the camera (2-3 feet?) and at weird angles. When the iPad is in your lap the camera can probably only see the bottom of your chin or just part of your face. A good way to test this is by launching an app like Photo Booth on your iPad and look at what it can (and more importantly cannot) see. It won't have a clear image of your face when it's sitting in your lap.

I think it's much more difficult to figure out than a cell phone.

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I was talking about the phone actually.
I still don't get why it can't compensate when the phone is landscape.

As for the iPad, eh, just make people lift up their hand for a moment.
And my phone can see me from my lap.

Redhead On Moped said:

I don't want a bezel-free or reduced iPad. If they remove the bezels, How am I going to hold and use it? 10.5 inch iPad Pro with its reduction is more than enough. keeps the device small, and fully usable.

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If they made an iPad Mini with smaller side bezels (like right up to the edge) it might make it possible to grip it in one hand. I think you can kinda do that with a Mini now, but just barely for my hand size, and if I put any sized case on it it's too big (I like stand cases).

But I think iPads will probably need to keep a big enough bezel on the top and bottom like you said for thumbs to rest without covering the screen.