Television Displays and Technology Thread: The ERA of OLED is Now

GearDraxon · Apr 11, 2018

RedlineRonin said:
all you're seeing is games that run at 1500p or w/e on PS4 Pro, and 1800p or w/e on OneX. There just isn't a huge (read:material) disparity.

You say that, but then I remember the Digital Foundry comparison threads between the stock X1 and PS4, and when multiplats ran at ~150 fewer p's on the X, it seemed to be A Big Deal to many. ;)

Bumrush said:
lol if a joke, I'm so sorry if serious...

All jokes, although if anything I did led to troubles with the cats...

Chamber · Apr 11, 2018

Even 4-5 years is a generous estimate for mLED. There is currently no way to even create a 4K mLED with less than 146" in screen size. To say that tech has a long way to go is the understatement of the century, there's a reason even Samsung is investing in OLED again.

Trying to hold off on buying a TV because you want mLED would be like waiting for a 4K OLED screen in 2006.

henhowc · Apr 11, 2018

Stiler said:
I'm really thinking about jumping to OLED with the C7 this year since prices are falling since the c8 is releasing.

Anyone know any good deals for the lg c7 right now?

are you in the US? frys had a $1799 deal for the 65C7p that supposedly ended last Saturday. they might still be honoring the price though according to one poster on slick deals ymmv. really nice if you can also swing a price protection with your CC company.

jordn613 · Apr 11, 2018

MazeHaze said:
I have a similar receiver, maybe even the same one, I forget the model number. It was a Home Theater in a box from Best Buy. I hooked my PC up through it, and it only does 4K at 4:2:0 and doesnt support HDR at all. I hook everything to the TV and optical out from TV to receiver. For PC, I hook an hdmi from GPU to TV, and send an HDMi from the motherboard to the receiver for Audio.

Any reason to use optical rather than just use HDMI ARC? I have a Marantz SR6008 (and an LG B7) and use the HDMI ARC rather than optical but is there a reason I should instead use the optical out? This is for 2.1 sound only, btw, no surround.

RedlineRonin · Apr 11, 2018

Bumrush said:
8,000 or more nits

No way that shit's not giving you cancer.

Will come included with Ray Bans.

SpartyCrunch · Apr 11, 2018

Yukstin said:
It will do 4K SDR but it won't pass HDR signals so it won't do much good when you upgrade your TV.

You'll want to hook your devices right to your TV and then optical from the TV to the receiver.

MazeHaze said:
I have a similar receiver, maybe even the same one, I forget the model number. It was a Home Theater in a box from Best Buy. I hooked my PC up through it, and it only does 4K at 4:2:0 and doesnt support HDR at all. I hook everything to the TV and optical out from TV to receiver. For PC, I hook an hdmi from GPU to TV, and send an HDMi from the motherboard to the receiver for Audio.

GearDraxon said:
Hilariously, lack of a UHD player is exactly the reason that I sold off my PS4 Pro a couple weeks ago. GameStop was running a promotion on Xboxes, and I had an S that I wasn't using for anything but UHD playback. I bought the Pro for the #exclusives, but when I realized that I hadn't turned it on in months, I decided it wasn't worth keeping. If it played UHDs (well), I absolutely would have kept it. I'm pretty sure Bloodborne was the only game I actually finished on it. Honestly? Probably still worth it. :)

SpartyCrunch I have that same receiver as well! I upgraded the speakers in that room, so I replaced it...but it's a totally decent unit, and well worth keeping. As others have said, use optical from the TV to get surround, and you'll be set. I'm giving mine to a business colleague - she's replacing an ancient 2.1 Bose setup with it and the Andrew Jones Pioneers™... I think she's going to be pretty happy with the upgrade.

Thanks all. So basically something like this, where everything which supports 4K and/or HDR plugs into the TV, everything else into the receiver, and just set up each input to correctly handle audio in the needed ways?

Don't some modern 4K HDR TVs still only do certain levels of processing on certain inputs? Or should I not need to worry about that on the LG OLEDs?

Bumrush · Apr 11, 2018

RedlineRonin said:
No way that shit's not giving you cancer.

Will come included with Ray Bans.

It's all about those specular highlights...

Though I do wonder what happens if you have 10,000 nits and the algorithm forgets to dim a full white screen. I mean, that can't be even remotely ok for your eyes, right?

henhowc · Apr 11, 2018

Bumrush said:
It's all about those specular highlights...

Though I do wonder what happens if you have 10,000 nits and the algorithm forgets to dim a full white screen. I mean, that can't be even remotely ok for your eyes, right?

I would imagine it'd be something like

Chamber · Apr 11, 2018

Bumrush said:
It's all about those specular highlights...

Though I do wonder what happens if you have 10,000 nits and the algorithm forgets to dim a full white screen. I mean, that can't be even remotely ok for your eyes, right?

Considering 10k nits is supposed to equal the sun's brightness on a clear day, yikes.

Brhoom · Apr 11, 2018

Could someone explain to me why ABL is a thing in OLEDs?

Art Vandelay · Apr 11, 2018

Brhoom said:
Would someone explain to me why ABL is a thing in OLEDs?

Probably to prevent burn in.

Bumrush · Apr 11, 2018

Brhoom said:
Would someone explain to me why ABL is a thing in OLEDs?

Mitigate IR and prolong the lifespan of the pixels?

MazeHaze · Apr 11, 2018

jordn613 said:
Any reason to use optical rather than just use HDMI ARC? I have a Marantz SR6008 (and an LG B7) and use the HDMI ARC rather than optical but is there a reason I should instead use the optical out? This is for 2.1 sound only, btw, no surround.

You'll get the same quality via optical and hdmi hdm, so it's just whatever you prefer.

SpartyCrunch said:
Thanks all. So basically something like this, where everything which supports 4K and/or HDR plugs into the TV, everything else into the receiver, and just set up each input to correctly handle audio in the needed ways?

Don't some modern 4K HDR TVs still only do certain levels of processing on certain inputs? Or should I not need to worry about that on the LG OLEDs?

Yeah that set up is fine. OLED hdmi ports are all the same afaik.

Velasco · Apr 11, 2018

Drewton said:
Are there really only a couple Blu-ray players that support Dolby Vision? My TV does and I just assumed the PS4 Pro and most players would support it.

Currently, there are four players that support DV: OPPO UDP-203, OPPO UDP-205, LG UP970, Philips BDP-7502.In the future: Sony UBP-X700 (already available, DV firmware update Summer 2018), LG UBK90 (Spring 2018, Dolby Vision ready at launch), Panasonic DP-UB9000.

MazeHaze · Apr 11, 2018

Brhoom said:
Could someone explain to me why ABL is a thing in OLEDs?

It's actually a power consumption issue. An OLED putting out full brightness on all white/bright colored screen uses a fuck ton of electricity.

henhowc · Apr 11, 2018

jordn613 said:
Any reason to use optical rather than just use HDMI ARC? I have a Marantz SR6008 (and an LG B7) and use the HDMI ARC rather than optical but is there a reason I should instead use the optical out? This is for 2.1 sound only, btw, no surround.

unless you have audio sync issues...not really since you can get higher quality audio over hdmi. although if its just stereo i dont think it matters either way

GreenMonkey · Apr 11, 2018

Nothing said:
I don't have an XB1X, nor do I have any experience with using one. Sorry. But I've spent hundreds of hours of tech forums where people discuss their experiences and it is universally agreed upon that the XB1X is not a good UHD disc player.

Sure, it plays discs fine. That's all it is, it's fine. But any 4K UHD enthusiast that is buying and watching disc movies for their performance and wants to view them accurately will use a dedicated player. Everything from the controls, to the upscaling, firmware updates, playback details, and especially control over the system settings is going to be much better on a stand-alone player.

If you're just going to watch a disc occasionally then I'm sure the XB1X is just fine. But if you're a film enthusiast like me, or you buy lot of discs, then you definitely want a dedicated player.

I haven't seen any real evidence that a dedicated player is any better than the Xbox anywhere. Upscaling is basically line doubling now - it isn't like DVDs and tricky deinterlacing and uneven upscaling.

Controls - fixed by PDP Talon remote (it's even backlit). I don't even know what you mean in citing firmware updates, the consoles are the best updated things around.

Any issues the One S/X had at first that I am aware of (random hitches, I think a bitstreaming problem, etc) have been fixed via updates.

DOTDASHDOT · Apr 11, 2018

Bumrush said:
It's all about those specular highlights...

Though I do wonder what happens if you have 10,000 nits and the algorithm forgets to dim a full white screen. I mean, that can't be even remotely ok for your eyes, right?

That would never be possible on any TV ever, the power consumption for one, would mean the TV needs a power station all to itself, just to do it lol, and the other thing is, 10k nits would only be used for such a small amount of highlights at any one time, it would never fry anyone's eyes, as the average level would be much much lower.

henhowc · Apr 11, 2018

GreenMonkey said:
I haven't seen any real evidence that a dedicated player is any better than the Xbox anywhere. Upscaling is basically line doubling now - it isn't like DVDs and tricky deinterlacing and uneven upscaling.

Controls - fixed by PDP Talon remote (it's even backlit). I don't even know what you mean in citing firmware updates, the consoles are the best updated things around.

Any issues the One S/X had at first that I am aware of (random hitches, I think a bitstreaming problem, etc) have been fixed via updates.

does it support dolby vision?

resident_UA · Apr 11, 2018

Brhoom said:
Could someone explain to me why ABL is a thing in OLEDs?

Based on what I read I think this might have something to do with being energy efficiency compliance as well. OLED takes more power than LCDs as is.

vivftp · Apr 11, 2018

Chamber said:
Even 4-5 years is a generous estimate for mLED. There is currently no way to even create a 4K mLED with less than 146" in screen size. To say that tech has a long way to go is the understatement of the century, there's a reason even Samsung is investing in OLED again.

Trying to hold off on buying a TV because you want mLED would be like waiting for a 4K OLED screen in 2006.

IIRC the prototype Sony showed in 2012 was a 55" 1080p TV, so scaled up that would at least be a 110" 4K display. True we don't know how mature that tech was and whether they went with a different approach since then.

Really hoping the 4-5 year estimate comes through as micro LED tech is exactly what I want out of my next TV.

Bumrush · Apr 11, 2018

DOTDASHDOT said:
That would never be possible on any TV ever, the power consumption for one, would mean the TV needs a power station all to itself, just to do it lol, and the other thing is, 10k nits would only be used for such a small amount of highlights at any one time, it would never fry anyone's eyes, as the average level would be much much lower.

lol, I know, I was just messing around :)

RedlineRonin · Apr 11, 2018

GreenMonkey said:
I haven't seen any real evidence that a dedicated player is any better than the Xbox anywhere. Upscaling is basically line doubling now - it isn't like DVDs and tricky deinterlacing and uneven upscaling.

Controls - fixed by PDP Talon remote (it's even backlit). I don't even know what you mean in citing firmware updates, the consoles are the best updated things around.

Any issues the One S/X had at first that I am aware of (random hitches, I think a bitstreaming problem, etc) have been fixed via updates.

henhowc said:
does it support dolby vision?

Also, does it still have chroma issues/decodes color incorrectly? I don't think that was fixed with the black level issues...

DOTDASHDOT · Apr 11, 2018

Bumrush said:
lol, I know, I was just messing around :)

Haha, look TV's are serious business! ;)

RedlineRonin said:
Also, does it still have chroma issues/decodes color incorrectly? I don't think that was fixed with the black level issues...

It's about to be fixed apparently!

Chamber · Apr 11, 2018

vivftp said:
IIRC the prototype Sony showed in 2012 was a 55" 1080p TV, so scaled up that would at least be a 110" 4K display. True we don't know how mature that tech was and whether they went with a different approach since then.

Really hoping the 4-5 year estimate comes through as micro LED tech is exactly what I want out of my next TV.

The 110" CLEDIS was a 1080p screen.

Apple estimates 3-4 years to put mLED in a smartphone. Truly affordable consumer level televisions in the 55-75" range are probably a lot longer out if we're being realistic. We'll see fully emissive QLED's before mLED is actually a real thing.

Bumrush · Apr 11, 2018

Chamber said:
Apple estimates 3-4 years to put mLED in a smartphone. Truly affordable consumer level televisions in the 55-75" range are probably a lot longer out if we're being realistic. We'll see fully emissive QLED's before mLED is actually a real thing.

Wouldn't fully emissive QLEDs be pretty fucking sweet!?

vermadas · Apr 11, 2018

MazeHaze said:
You'll get the same quality via optical and hdmi hdm, so it's just whatever you prefer.

~~Aren't you limited to compressed surround audio (DTS, DD 5.1) with optical? You need HDMI for uncompressed PCM, Atmos, etc.~~ My bad, just realized we were talking about a 2.1 system.

Not sure if this is still a thing, but it used to be most TVs would always downmix sound to stereo from external sources when using optical audio out.

I just had the same issue where I had to replace a receiver only a few years old because it wouldn't be able to passthrough HDR, and I am hoping to upgrade my TV soon. Went from a Denon AVR-X3100W to a AVR-X3400H.

Hawk269 · Apr 11, 2018

Brhoom said:
Could someone explain to me why ABL is a thing in OLEDs?

To prevent burn in and prolong the life. But on my E7 it is too aggressive. Using this forum as an example with the lite theme, when I am on the main page showing all the threads, I get a nice clean bright white back ground, as soon as I scroll down the ABL kicks in and turns the screen to light almost grey back round, if I scroll all the way to the bottom the bright white returns. It is really f'n annoying. I don't browse the web on my gaming PC that much, but I do at times and it is a pain in the ass when it does it.

Brhoom · Apr 11, 2018

Art Vandelay said:
Probably to prevent burn in.

Bumrush said:
Mitigate IR and prolong the lifespan of the pixels?

MazeHaze said:
It's actually a power consumption issue. An OLED putting out full brightness on all white/bright colored screen uses a fuck ton of electricity.

resident_UA said:
Based on what I read I think this might have something to do with being energy efficiency compliance as well. OLED takes more power than LCDs as is.

Hawk269 said:
To prevent burn in and prolong the life. But on my E7 it is too aggressive. Using this forum as an example with the lite theme, when I am on the main page showing all the threads, I get a nice clean bright white back ground, as soon as I scroll down the ABL kicks in and turns the screen to light almost grey back round, if I scroll all the way to the bottom the bright white returns. It is really f'n annoying. I don't browse the web on my gaming PC that much, but I do at times and it is a pain in the ass when it does it.

I see, hopefully the C8 isn't as aggressive as the 7 series.

vivftp · Apr 11, 2018

Chamber said:
The 110" CLEDIS was a 1080p screen.

Apple estimates 3-4 years to put mLED in a smartphone. Truly affordable consumer level televisions in the 55-75" range are probably a lot longer out if we're being realistic. We'll see fully emissive QLED's before mLED is actually a real thing.

No I was referring to this prototype from CES 2012:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKdfhQIFjDE

It was a 55" 1080p CLED display. So scale that up and it would become a 110" 4K display.

You may be thinking of this more recent demo they had:

https://blog.werigi.com/sony-canvas...4202301&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook

It's larger than 110", but off the top of my head I can't recall what size it was.

prison_architect · Apr 11, 2018

Will skip this year purchasing a TV. Hoping that new models next year will have 2.1 HDMIs.

CRIMSON-XIII · Apr 11, 2018

what is ABL? as far as OLEDs?

the preventive measures against retention and burn in are amazing in oleds 2017 and up, the safety options are awesome.

Hawk269 · Apr 11, 2018

CRIMSON-XIII said:
what is ABL? as far as OLEDs?

the preventive measures against retention and burn in are amazing in oleds 2017 and up, the safety options are awesome.

Automatic Brightness Limiter

...and there is no way to defeat it, adjust it or anything.

As I posted above, when using this forum and the Lite theme, if you are at the top of the thread page it is a nice bright white back ground, when you scroll down showing more of the threads it turns to a dim/white almost lite grey and if you scroll to the bottom the bright white returns. That is the ABL kicking on and off.

henhowc · Apr 11, 2018

Hawk269 said:
Automatic Brightness Limiter

...and there is no way to defeat it, adjust it or anything.

As I posted above, when using this forum and the Lite theme, if you are at the top of the thread page it is a nice bright white back ground, when you scroll down showing more of the threads it turns to a dim/white almost lite grey and if you scroll to the bottom the bright white returns. That is the ABL kicking on and off.

do you see banding when using dark theme ;D

Hawk269 · Apr 11, 2018

henhowc said:
do you see banding when using dark theme ;D

Very, very faint. The only way I have seen banding that bothers me a bit is with Sea of Thieves. Depending on the scene at night time, I can see it. I was in a dimly lit cave and panning the camera I could see the banding against the rocks. On the Xbox One X using the dark them many people said you can see the banding easily, but on my set I can barely see the banding. My set overall is not too bad and it is has been primarily SoT that I see it in, but it is limited to a certain darkness level that reveals it. I went about 4 months without noticing it and noticed it during one of the alpha tests for SoT. LCD banding you can see easier and in most lighting conditions. Depending on your OLED panel, banding on them are harder to see, some are better than others and like I said I never saw it for 4 months and I am a picky bastard when it comes to screen uniformity and that is the first thing I look for when I get a new set.

Me_Marcadet · Apr 11, 2018

GearDraxon said:
You say that, but then I remember the Digital Foundry comparison threads between the stock X1 and PS4, and when multiplats ran at ~150 fewer p's on the X, it seemed to be A Big Deal to many. ;)

There is less visible downgrade between 1440p and 1800p than 1080p and 900p, same with 900p vs 720p, 720p vs 540p, 480p vs 240 etc...
Diminishing returns is a thing with resolution.

Chamber · Apr 11, 2018

Bumrush said:
Wouldn't fully emissive QLEDs be pretty fucking sweet!?

Yeah, basically an OLED with less susceptibility to burn-in and higher peak brightness. I'm not sure how much of an advancement that will be over the OLED's we have in 5 years time but it certainly sounds nice.

henhowc · Apr 11, 2018

Hawk269 said:
Very, very faint. The only way I have seen banding that bothers me a bit is with Sea of Thieves. Depending on the scene at night time, I can see it. I was in a dimly lit cave and panning the camera I could see the banding against the rocks. On the Xbox One X using the dark them many people said you can see the banding easily, but on my set I can barely see the banding. My set overall is not too bad and it is has been primarily SoT that I see it in, but it is limited to a certain darkness level that reveals it. I went about 4 months without noticing it and noticed it during one of the alpha tests for SoT. LCD banding you can see easier and in most lighting conditions. Depending on your OLED panel, banding on them are harder to see, some are better than others and like I said I never saw it for 4 months and I am a picky bastard when it comes to screen uniformity and that is the first thing I look for when I get a new set.

That was tongue in cheek post. But your response was actually really informative. ERA is the real oled torture test lol

I have a c7 in order for pickup and have a few days to decide if I want to keep it hah

Saito · Apr 11, 2018

Smokey said:
If you flip back and forth between HDR Standard and HDR Game Mode, when playing a HDR enabled game, is there a difference?

I tried uncharted 4 and horizon zero dawn; no perceivable difference when changing between HDR standard and HDR game mode.

henhowc · Apr 11, 2018

one thing that has bugging me lately with most LEDs are the darker corners. like the backlight doesn't seem to be able to get complete coverage. i cannot unsee

MrBob · Apr 11, 2018

I feel lucky because I've had zero issues with my xbox as a 4k uhd movie player. Thankfully the chroma issue will be fixed with the spring update.

I'm still going to pick up a stand alone player though. Either the new LG player or Sony player. I need that dolby vision support and still a little salty XB1 doesn't support dolby vision for movies.

dallow_bg · Apr 11, 2018

Is the chroma issue detailed anywhere?
And so the spring update will correct it?

Saito said:
I tried uncharted 4 and horizon zero dawn; no perceivable difference when changing between HDR standard and HDR game mode.

C8 correct? Nice.

Hawk269 · Apr 11, 2018

henhowc said:
That was tongue in cheek post. But your response was actually really informative. ERA is the real oled torture test lol

I have a c7 in order for pickup and have a few days to decide if I want to keep it hah

I have been dissecting panel issues since the NES/Master System days when Audio/Video input was coming available. My friends whenever they would get a new TV or a portable (Atari Lynx/Nomad/PSP/Gameboy) would have me look since I was able to tell them if there are issues. However, I always would ask them first "How does it look to you?". If they said it looked great and they noticed no issues I would ask them if they are sure they want me to check it out?

There are some/many that say you should not go looking for issues and that if you as the end user don't notice something then you are good to go. Then there are the others (the camp I live in) that feels if you are spending $1,000.00 or more on a product, you damn make sure it is working properly and doing your due diligence to look for potential issues before your return period expires. The main reason to me is that if you spot an issue beyond your return period, you then are stuck dealing with the manufacturer which could be a pain in the ass or they tell you "that is within specs". Nothing gives you a stomach ache more than spending $3-$6k only to realize you have banding or other issues 3 months after purchase or a few days after the return window to retailer ends.

thuway · Apr 11, 2018

dallow_bg said:
4.30.95 for the C6. Yeah they use different numbers.
I think yours is actually a post-dim FW. Check out the FW history here: http://www.lg.com/us/support-product/lg-OLED55B6P
I'm not 100% on the B6 though, but if it's like the C6, only the FWs with the introduction of HDR Game Mode and the one immediately afterward retain the higher light output. If the brightness goes down when switching and the settings are the same, then it's definitely post update.

Here's some pics. This was really hard to capture with camera. I locked the exposure to the lowest possible setting so that you can judge purely on light output.
I repeat, these pictures are purely to illustrate the light output. OLED light and brightness settings were the same between the two modes.

FW 05.30.02

FW 04.30.95

As you can see, the light output between HDR Standard and HDR Game are exactly the same on the old FW.
And changing Dynamic Contrast on the new FW doesn't do anything but hurt the picture. It doesn't get close to HDR Standard.

I AM TRYING TO DO THIS!!! BUT I KEEP GETTING Firmware not found. Do you know where to download the firmware from? And are you using a US set?

dallow_bg · Apr 11, 2018

thuway said:
I AM TRYING TO DO THIS!!! BUT I KEEP GETTING Firmware not found. Do you know where to download the firmware from? And are you using a US set?

Yeah a US set. Should work for the C thru E (and G with a name change) series.
Want a link and help? I did it all in just a couple of minutes of setup.

thuway · Apr 11, 2018

dallow_bg said:
Yeah a US set. Should work for the C thru G series.
Want a link and help? I did it all in just a couple of minutes of setup.

Yes i'm dying out here in these oled streetz

Saito · Apr 11, 2018

dallow_bg said:
C8 correct? Nice.

C8 yes.

Here is comparison video I found on avsforum with 2017 LG OLED vs 2018

Bumrush · Apr 11, 2018

Chamber said:
Yeah, basically an OLED with less susceptibility to burn-in and higher peak brightness. I'm not sure how much of an advancement that will be over the OLED's we have in 5 years time but it certainly sounds nice.

I recently read that WOLED panels have effectively reached their max brightness.

We need a new missive tech

Samaritan · Apr 11, 2018

Saito said:
C8 yes.

Here is comparison video I found on avsforum with 2017 LG OLED vs 2018

As someone who has recently begun playing through AC:O on my B7 OLED, the image on the right is what I expected the game to look like in the daytime.

Velasco · Apr 11, 2018

An interesting video from Vincent Teoh.I don't think it has been posted here.If it was, then ignore.

Television Displays and Technology Thread: The ERA of OLED is Now

Xbox

Helios Abandoned. Atropos Conquered.

Helios Abandoned. Atropos Conquered.