The example you put with Joel is ... without comment.
A question This is for you to lose respect for a man because clothing does not cover everything?
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Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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The example you put with Joel is ... without comment.
A question This is for you to lose respect for a man because clothing does not cover everything?
Don't do this. It's incredibly insulting and dismissive towards all of the women who posted in this thread, not to mention the OP who put effort in her thread. Moreover, if you peek at the REgals (Women of ERA) OT you will see tons more women saying they feel absolutely disgusted by this thread and won't even touch it because it's so exhausting to address the same old bad arguments over and over.
Also, all the "my wife/girlfriend/sister/neighbour thinks it's fine/funny/doesn't mind/she loves it" -- stop doing that, people. You might not realize it or do it intentionally, but by using someone else like that as a shield (someone who isn't even speaking for themselves, mind) you are being rude and dismissive of the women who ARE actually speaking up. I mean, I could easily say, "Okay, well, my boyfriend read your post and thinks you're wrong, so there", but then you'd find that comment pretty ridiculous, right? So, kindly stop doing that (not just you, but everyone else). If your SOs disagree so strongly, let them register and post their thoughts themselves. Bringing up your unverifiable anecdotes as a shield is meaningless.
It's not villanization of sexualization, it's criticism of sexist stereotypes; and feminism is most definitely not "synonymous with censorship" by any stretch of the imagination.
Calm down there now, don't recall saying that you specifically did that, but no one addressed that with the one that did that I saw, so maybe look at what I said instead of taking things as personal accusations.
When someone posts that sexual content has "material repercussions in this reality that could end in the death of women or sexual abuse" I think that's sufficient grounds to say some are villanizing the content. They are creating a direct link to and culpability of the media itself in those acts. I'm certainly not saying it's a prevalent voice or way of thinking, but it can certainly be said that the arguments we individually see include those that resonate the most.
And I've seen this angle show up in more places than one.
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Well then I guess I don't understand what you would consider a valid contribution. But I tried.
The example you put with Joel is ... without comment.
A question This is for you to lose respect for a man because clothing does not cover everything?
The thing with designs like this, though, is that they're still aimed at men, a lot of whom harbour escapist fantasies where they're cool, attractive badasses.
Compare that to the number of women who want to play as scantly-clad valkyries with oversized, comically bouncing knockers...
You can believe me or not, but for many women if it is synonymous with censorship in many aspects of this.
You literally named an example of a male character design that's purposefully designed with titillation in mind. Which not only is a rarity in mainstream games but also doesn't represent a large problem about the medium. Meanwhile, a character like Kratos or shirtless Ryu isn't designed with that in mind at all. And before you name Hot Ryu, he straight up proof of what I just said because Capcom admitted to being completely blindsided by the fan reaction to him.The example you put with Joel is ... without comment.
A question This is for you to lose respect for a man because clothing does not cover everything?
Would you consider the borderline mandate in place that women in games weren't allowed to have scenes showcasing displays of genuine sexuality to be censorship? Let alone be the main character or hell, even the idea that internally having a woman on the cover in front of the male was something some devs have to fight for. Do you consider those to be censorship? Or how about designs having to be changed to be more sexualized when some devs would prefer not to? Also censorship?
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I think there are foundamental behavioural problems on both hands, which we could chalk up to 2 shitty ways of communicating.
This is how it ALWAYS goes:
Person 1: ...Coca Cola is awesome!!!!
Person 2: No, it's shit and it's a problem because there's no Orange Juice in it!
Person 1: I don't see it as a problem!
Person 2: Well it is for me and many others, Coca Cola is made of shit!
Person 1: I don't give a fuck, i really like Coca Cola the way it is!
Person 2: But orange Juice is organic and it would benefit everyone!
Person 1: Then Drink Orange Juice!
Person 2: But i want it to replace Coca Cola!
Person 1: There's no laws about not making OJ, make it yourself without banning my Coke!
Person 2: But why can't it be in place of the regular Coca Cola, how can you not see the problem?
Person 1: Because.....[go back to the top and repeat...over, and over, and over again]
My take:
Trying OJ won't kill you once in a while even if you love Coca Cola, maybe it'll turn out you're actually a big fan of OJ and you didn't know it.
On the other hand, nobody should force OJ down anyone's throat or fight to make it the only drink ever.
I really like Coca Cola and Orange Juice (i actually like em mixed aswell), so i have absolutely no horse in this race, but i really am baffled at some of the communication that often goes on on both sides of these threads.
I can assure you that there are many more, but for my part I leave the subject. I think I've already said everything I thought
Not in mainstream gaming there aren't. And that's quite literally on purpose, ignore the title, as this video specifically is about how male characters tend to by design not be sexualized in anyway shape or form, even despite the fact that they have perfect chins, are muscular, have perfect skin, etc.
and to reemphasize the above point, the following video shows how framing matters. Skin or bodies isn't the hangup people have.
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But Last of Us goes for a realistc approach with its setting. Bayonetta does not. Characters like Bayonetta would of course look ridiculous and Bayonetta's design would be nothing but a random out of place sexy outfit because it would not exist within the context of her own game where it is just a crazy outfit in crazy world worn by a sexy witch.
Regarding the topic as a whole
Its a good discussion to have atleast when talking about games meant to have wide appeal and I would say having this discussion has already lead to some change. A Horizon released 10 years ago would have probably had a far more video game babe esque design.
Problem is most of these discussions are always about games not made for mass appeal but niche games and/or games with heavily stylized designs or crazy settings. Its so weird to read how x design is unrealisitc and her clothes would never stay on, while the character is performing humanly impossible feats.
Quiet is the one example where the complaints are actually valid. Her design didn't bother me much but it makes little sense even within the context. Yes MGS has sexy female designs but its sexy spy or the plugsuits in MGS4 that were fine within the setting. Quiet is just random. It is not even the fact that she is running around in a bikini torn underwear etc. but that the design makes no sense. The only way for Quiet to look like that is if she either wore fishnet leggings under her XOF suit when she fell out of the window and the burned away uniform left her like that... or someone played weird dress up when she was saved and turned into Quiet.. both cases are absurd. And even if you go with the design. Once she becomes Snake's partner why didn't they make a special Sneaking Suit for her that still leaves enough skin for the whole breathing through her skin stuff. Yes people would have probably still complained about a sexy suit showing skin but atleast the design would have made more sense at that point.
I like super stylized and sexualized designs as well as more realistic or normal ones. Character wise i do not think less of a character just because they wear something sexualized and i don't like how often words are put into people's mouth that because i like these designs i objectify them and they are just walking eye candy. The design is just one aspect of a character.
Genrally i am of course for more realistic looking female characters. And more and diverse characters is never bad. I just prefer fantasy or more unrealistic settings in general.
If its about more realistic/conservative/normal designs on top of all the sexy knights and what not i am all for it. Not so much if it is about reducing one to get more of the other.
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I've been playing Ys VIII recently and yeeeeeesh. Not a single female character was spared from the brush of the male gaze. Not even the little ones... Fun game, but dumpsters fire tier female designs. Lolis, sexy 1000 year old dragon, the works.
One of the main things I dislike about how grossly sexualized basically all female characters are in games (other than the obvious sexism/dehumanization/objectification) is how it makes me feel like the creators assume I'm 13 years old.
Like for real, how do guys not feel like they're constantly being condescended/pandered to with stuff like this? You deserve more intelligent content.
Like for real, how do guys not feel like they're constantly being condescended/pandered to with stuff like this? You deserve more intelligent content.
Why do you wish to not comment? Is it because it sounds ridiculous? Well, Quiet in the world of MGS is also ridiculous, yet that happened, and is only one example in a sea of examples.The example you put with Joel is ... without comment.
A question This is for you to lose respect for a man because clothing does not cover everything?
Dante is not an objectified character, you need to look beyond just the clothing and see the way characters are portrayed and treat.
I'd love to keep discussing this, but it's gone 2am here and I have work in morning.
Yea I get you. I guess ultimately many men are simply horny perverts (creators and consumers alike) who take gratification in sexualised females, hence it is made in the first place and consumed or appreciated by end users (gamers) too.
I guess it's also easier to do when the female in question is purely fictional, and thus there's even more creative freedom and suspension of disbelief afforded.
I personally would have thought as the medium matures we would have moved further from that kind of thing, and whilst I suppose to an extent it has, it has done so in a very limited way.
The irony of course is that such over sexualised female characters are still actually promoted and glorified by many females too, in cos play costumes etc. Hence you see so many scantily clad half naked women at comic con and other shows, dressed as some of these characters.
Some women evidently use the sexualisation of these characters to their advantage or for their enjoyment too, unless part of that is simply because there are too few non sexualised prominent female characters, or the ones that dress in such ways get the predominant bulk of coverage, hence our notions of female cos playing is skewed. I honestly wouldn't know as I've never attended one of these shows myself.
On a sort of similarly related note, I know this may open up a whole can of worms and anger some people, but I sort of feel a similar way, if not far worse, towards the sexualised childification of female characters. When you make anime esque female characters who look increasingly young to the point they look like underage teens or children, wide eyed, innocent, cutesy, immature, inexperienced etc, but with super revealing clothes, big ass boobs, massive heels and all the rest, and often put them in very overtly sexual scenarios too, it really just seems questionsble to me. Almost like an inadvertent draw towards paedophilia.
I guess it's also easier to do when the female in question is purely fictional, and thus there's even more creative freedom and suspension of disbelief afforded.
I personally would have thought as the medium matures we would have moved further from that kind of thing, and whilst I suppose to an extent it has, it has done so in a very limited way.
The irony of course is that such over sexualised female characters are still actually promoted and glorified by many females too, in cos play costumes etc. Hence you see so many scantily clad half naked women at comic con and other shows, dressed as some of these characters.
Some women evidently use the sexualisation of these characters to their advantage or for their enjoyment too, unless part of that is simply because there are too few non sexualised prominent female characters, or the ones that dress in such ways get the predominant bulk of coverage, hence our notions of female cos playing is skewed. I honestly wouldn't know as I've never attended one of these shows myself.
On a sort of similarly related note, I know this may open up a whole can of worms and anger some people, but I sort of feel a similar way, if not far worse, towards the sexualised childification of female characters. When you make anime esque female characters who look increasingly young to the point they look like underage teens or children, wide eyed, innocent, cutesy, immature, inexperienced etc, but with super revealing clothes, big ass boobs, massive heels and all the rest, and often put them in very overtly sexual scenarios too, it really just seems questionsble to me. Almost like an inadvertent draw towards paedophilia.
Is Quiet that ridiculous in the world of MGS? Like Bayonetta Joel in TLOU ridiculous? I don't think there really can be much in the world of MGS that really approaches the latter situation regarding designs breaking settings. I mean sure, Quiet is, well, what she is, but that comparison itself is a hard one for me to internally justify as being even remotely equal. Especially since MGS thrives on that kind of thing.
Not convinced that stylization is an excuse either. Just because the world is "crazy" doesn't mean that women also need to be or are justifiably sexualized. Hell if anything that's lazy from a design standpoint and makes the world less "crazy" because of how commonplace that is in media. There's also the fact that even when games are "grounded" they're still heavily stylized depictions of reality. Battlefield on the surface looks like a simulation of war but that facade so quickly drops, this is literally the most famous gif from BF1:
Meanwhile, TLOU, has entire sections where you have unlimited ammo while hanging upside down and shooting zombies or have unlimited sniper ammo that you got from a genuinely random dude in the middle of a suburb. Let's not forget that we're a single dude taking out large amounts of enemies as well as carrying molotovs, several pistols, several large weapons, health packs, etc, in a single backpack. And not even one of those big ones. Oh and there are zombies, which in and of itself is a hilariously crazy concept. But the setting itself tries to appear grounded on the surface because the focus is believability.
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As I see the argument it's less to address Quiet's unquestionable sexualization and more to address the plausibility of her character in that world abstracted from that sexuality.
I did read what you said, and I stand by my post. I'm not annoyed because I think I'm being attacked, I'm annoyed because you're citing straw men.
Nnno, it very much is a huge problem, not just with games but not precluding them either. Media directly impacts how we think, what we think, and how we think about other people. Games are included in that.
I pointed out a viewpoint I saw expressed directly. If that's what you define as a strawman then the issue is your definition of strawman, not the point I brought up.
Precisely. MGSV had a realistic design, yet Quiet looked like she was created for DOA volleyball.
I won't get into the parallels between Bayo and DMC and how one is a "sexy witch" yet the other is a badass demon slayer despite the premise of both games being similar.
I was thinking about this the other day, Nina Williams from Tekken is a middle aged woman according to the game's own lore, but don't worry she's still looking young and sexy due to being "placed in cryosleep for 19 years" lol. Pretty lame right?
I guess the argument is that to make these old characters age with the series would change them too much over time. As a fan I don't want Nina or Ryu to play drastically different to how they did 20 years ago so I accept it, but the imbalance is still there. No reason they can't introduce a new character as an older female.
I'm sure most of us have seen plenty of older male characters being presented as being in peak physical shape but I don't think I've ever seen that being the case for females, they always have to have an excuse to be young and attractive. "She's 100 years old, but she's a vampire" type stuff gets pretty tired after while
I guess the argument is that to make these old characters age with the series would change them too much over time. As a fan I don't want Nina or Ryu to play drastically different to how they did 20 years ago so I accept it, but the imbalance is still there. No reason they can't introduce a new character as an older female.
I'm sure most of us have seen plenty of older male characters being presented as being in peak physical shape but I don't think I've ever seen that being the case for females, they always have to have an excuse to be young and attractive. "She's 100 years old, but she's a vampire" type stuff gets pretty tired after while
Not convinced that stylization is an excuse either. Just because the world is "crazy" doesn't mean that women also need to be or are justifiably sexualized. Hell if anything that's lazy from a design standpoint and makes the world less "crazy" because of how commonplace that is in media. There's also the fact that even when games are "grounded" they're still heavily stylized depictions of reality. Battlefield on the surface looks like a simulation of war but that facade so quickly drops, this is literally the most famous gif from BF1:
Meanwhile, TLOU, has entire sections where you have unlimited ammo while hanging upside down and shooting zombies or have unlimited sniper ammo that you got from a genuinely random dude in the middle of a suburb. Let's not forget that we're a single dude taking out large amounts of enemies as well as carrying molotovs, several pistols, several large weapons, health packs, etc, in a single backpack. And not even one of those big ones. Oh and there are zombies, which in and of itself is a hilariously crazy concept. But the setting itself tries to appear grounded on the surface because the focus is believability.
Regarding these points, I think these are boundaries pushed in the pursuit of gameplay ideals, whereas over sexualised female character designs generally are not.
Perhaps if one of the drinks was tinted slightly with poison might the analogy work but... No, no it doesn't.
This analogy doesn't work.
On any level.
That is a difference in some points yea but then you have the settings themselves being stylized. Like WW1 where the majority of weapons are machine guns isn't something the devs were forced to do due to gameplay. They could've chosen not to take that angle. Zombies aren't something ND was forced to do either.
I'm a guy, but I see where you're coming from. The thing is it's like developers don't have a clue how to conceptualize women as anything other than hypersexualized and they are unwilling to actually hire enough women to allow the process to happen organically.
Yes, an assassin in a thong because she "breathes through her skin" is as ridiculous as Joel an a catsuit.
The direct comparison isn't what we should be getting hung up on. The ridiculous nature of the Joel example is how jarring female depictions in gaming can and do feel a lot of the time.
The worse is that they actually do, but in a lot of cases were told to do otherwise.
No one's really arguing that her character's powers and limitations are implausible in that world though.
I think a big issue is that different people have different standards for what they would call sexualised, and whether it is a positive light or not.
I feel Bayonetta is a good example of this, because some feel that she's an example of sex positivity for women.
This feeling is based on the idea that despite being oddly proportioned in a world of fairly regular humans, she remains confident, everything sexual occurring is because she wills it. Others are victims to her atracks that are often "sex" based etc.
While others feel that all those aspects are simply there for fan service, that she was designed to titillate the player. From what I understand this is rooted in the concept of because she was designed that way the former argument doesn't work.
I'm a male so I'll leave my thoughts on Bayonetta aside because I'm by no means an expert nor can I say that I'm personally affected by any of this so I hope I don't offend anyone by speaking my mind.
My point is that based on these different standards change will be slower than usual because getting a unified agreement on everything would seem very difficult.
I will say I personally don't mind sexualisation of either sex because I find it goofy fun (I love JoJo's bizarre adventure poses where heavily muscled men are doing fabulous poses mid fight).
But I also recognise that not everyone takes these things the same way, and I'm sure some are influenced negatively because of them.
TLDR: saying "x who is girl says it's ok" or even "I'm x and think it's ok therefore it's all ok" is flawed because men and women are not a hive mind. What's ok for one is not always ok for the other. We should respect others opinions on these things and not take criticism of something we like personally.
I feel Bayonetta is a good example of this, because some feel that she's an example of sex positivity for women.
This feeling is based on the idea that despite being oddly proportioned in a world of fairly regular humans, she remains confident, everything sexual occurring is because she wills it. Others are victims to her atracks that are often "sex" based etc.
While others feel that all those aspects are simply there for fan service, that she was designed to titillate the player. From what I understand this is rooted in the concept of because she was designed that way the former argument doesn't work.
I'm a male so I'll leave my thoughts on Bayonetta aside because I'm by no means an expert nor can I say that I'm personally affected by any of this so I hope I don't offend anyone by speaking my mind.
My point is that based on these different standards change will be slower than usual because getting a unified agreement on everything would seem very difficult.
I will say I personally don't mind sexualisation of either sex because I find it goofy fun (I love JoJo's bizarre adventure poses where heavily muscled men are doing fabulous poses mid fight).
But I also recognise that not everyone takes these things the same way, and I'm sure some are influenced negatively because of them.
TLDR: saying "x who is girl says it's ok" or even "I'm x and think it's ok therefore it's all ok" is flawed because men and women are not a hive mind. What's ok for one is not always ok for the other. We should respect others opinions on these things and not take criticism of something we like personally.
Well...i said Coca Cola, not Holy Water...
And i'm sorry...but that exactly how these arguments always go, just read this thread top to bottom.
It's often like everyone is pretending to be nice about the opposition and in reality there's many people in both camps that just can't wait for the first misstep of the other to just go "AH GOTCHA!"
You're again discarding the context surrounding the 2 franchises and their respective games, which absolutely should frame what we consider ridiculous. When that's factored in I think you can see why the comparison keeps being rejected as valid, conversations about sexualization aside. Dante in TLOU is just as ridiculous, but since the core issue isn't thematic cohesion between highly divergent properties it doesn't really matter.
Which is sort of the point, her visuals are designed to tie in with that and with her world. Yes, sure, when you ignore all context between to very different things you get situations where transplanting doesn't fit, but those aspects go beyond simple sexualization in the comparison proposed. Bayo-Joel doesn't cohesively fit in TLOU. Balder-Joel wouldn't either.
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No again, that is clearly something that was skewed with gameplay intent, because for all intents and purposes it's generally more fun to shoot machine guns than rifles or pistols. They're more dramatic, have a faster rate of fire, cause more damage and wreak more havoc. Pretty much perfect for a game in which the main purpose is killing things.
And zombies are the theme of the game and narrative, but the way they're implemented, designed or engaged is still centered primarily around gameplay, simultaneously accommodating the narrative.
People view this stuff way too simplitically. It's not a "both sides" thing. I don't know if it's willful ignorance or they don't actually want to actually engage in good faith, but it's hard to have this conversation when right out of the gate, folks are getting tripped up over the fact that sexualization and objectification often go hand in hand but are different concepts.
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Criticism does not equal censorship. If a feminist criticizes some entertainment product for having sexist portrayals of women and the creators CHOOSE to make changes, that's not censorship.
And I never said it was, infact I never even addressed criticism. I addressed that some villanize. Those are 2 wholly different things.
That video not completely misses the point but also straight up proves the point of the one it's "parodying" whilst simultaneously taking the word butt too literally instead of actually listening to the critique, LMFAO, this is sexualization?:
not only that, but it's unsurprisingly it's from a garbage individual:
Description:This video gives a glimpse into Neil Cuckmann's feminist agenda that is perverting Naughty Dog's creative vision and will have grave implications for The Last of Us 2. See how Neil kneels at the altar of Anita and then gets friendzoned anyway.
So I have to ask what the hell kinda channels are you following?
Rifles being the most popular weapon in a previous BF game disproves that notion entirely. Again, they weren't forced to do that at all. If you were talking about medics you'd have a point about things having to be skewed. But the fact that gameplay concessions have to be made does not contradict the fact that even when games are trying to be grounded that they still end p being stylized even when the intent is to be more grounded. Just for instance the least shocking or reaction worthy thing in TLOU2 trailer which I'm almost 100% sure is objectively the most grounded depiction of violence in the literal history of this medium, is the part where a guy gets shot through the mouth and neck with arrows in incredibly quick succession for someone who's in the rain, wearing a rain jacket, and has to manually aim each shot. The most popular genre is action adventure. So action movie tropes and logic are the most prevalent.
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Another thing, the video above uses the same few examples over and over. MGS, Batman, Spiderman etc (basically games where the male character is wearing spandex type clothing). In reality, he has so few counter examples that he has to show MGS like 30 times.
Cindy and Quiet are good examples that support your point very well in regards to breaking immersion or looking out of place. So those are huge games that aren't made to revolve around scantily clad women so when it shows a focus on that in particular it's going to be weird and not necesarry to the game/plot. Can't imagine what my wife would say during that rain scene with Quiet, pretty awkward.
Other times you have games like DOA Volleyball that I've never played but understand that there's a particular audience for that product and it's aimed directly at them. If they had (or do they already?) the same game with male characters in short trunks I wouldn't care either because I respect that it's not made for me.
Does that make any rational sense or am I coming off as ignorant on this topic?
Edit: Want to apologize for using "my wife" in this post but I'm saying it as that is the most likely person who would be there when I'm playing games and thus most likely to comment. So I can't say what her reaction would be but to me it was an awkward scene.
Other times you have games like DOA Volleyball that I've never played but understand that there's a particular audience for that product and it's aimed directly at them. If they had (or do they already?) the same game with male characters in short trunks I wouldn't care either because I respect that it's not made for me.
Does that make any rational sense or am I coming off as ignorant on this topic?
Edit: Want to apologize for using "my wife" in this post but I'm saying it as that is the most likely person who would be there when I'm playing games and thus most likely to comment. So I can't say what her reaction would be but to me it was an awkward scene.
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I'll be fair, the first time i really took offence was with the beach volleyball games, i think by the guys from DoA and maybe even slightly sooner with "jiggly boobs physics" introduced in many games during the PS2 era. But likely this has gone back further, without me ever really noticing it back then.
That said, i think the real problem is "variety" on one hand and parental guidance on the other. Women are represented in a similar fashion in adult entertainment. Yet we don't see this as a problem, since it's basically the entire point of porn. Obviously, it's purely fantasy in both cases. If you see those videogames in the same light, it becomes difficult to object. But at that time, the issues i spoke of earlier come into play: variety in videogames in general, and parental guidance / rating system for those games that are guilty of objectifying women. I understand that not everybody wants to play games where woman are objectified, but many will, just because they like the core gameplay mechanics of said game, and there isn't a true alternative that offers the same experience, minus the boobs being "thrown around". Let's say you like MGS, but you could do without the way woman are portrayed in the game, what alternative is there? So i understand the issue for women (and men) who take offence. But i'm wondering if it'd still be an issue if a fitting rating system was created for those games, that was visible (not unlike the warnings on cigarette packages these days) and was strictly applied. These games would get lesser sales, less budget would be made available for future games. Parents would be made more aware of the content of these games. More budget would flow towards similar games (from a gameplay perspective) but without the skimpy outfits for women and other offensive content. Or it would possibly be enough of an incentive for "innocent" games that are also guilty of the same antics (let's say, Xenoblade 2) to forego these types of character designs.
That said, i think the real problem is "variety" on one hand and parental guidance on the other. Women are represented in a similar fashion in adult entertainment. Yet we don't see this as a problem, since it's basically the entire point of porn. Obviously, it's purely fantasy in both cases. If you see those videogames in the same light, it becomes difficult to object. But at that time, the issues i spoke of earlier come into play: variety in videogames in general, and parental guidance / rating system for those games that are guilty of objectifying women. I understand that not everybody wants to play games where woman are objectified, but many will, just because they like the core gameplay mechanics of said game, and there isn't a true alternative that offers the same experience, minus the boobs being "thrown around". Let's say you like MGS, but you could do without the way woman are portrayed in the game, what alternative is there? So i understand the issue for women (and men) who take offence. But i'm wondering if it'd still be an issue if a fitting rating system was created for those games, that was visible (not unlike the warnings on cigarette packages these days) and was strictly applied. These games would get lesser sales, less budget would be made available for future games. Parents would be made more aware of the content of these games. More budget would flow towards similar games (from a gameplay perspective) but without the skimpy outfits for women and other offensive content. Or it would possibly be enough of an incentive for "innocent" games that are also guilty of the same antics (let's say, Xenoblade 2) to forego these types of character designs.
Disagree with Cidney she is a sexy pretty mechanic in a fantasy setting where the group of main protagonists are hot and attractive Otome game stereotypes looking like a boyband. There is nothing out of place about Cidney in a setting with main characters like that
Yes they don't have to be sexualized but the creator felt like it because they like it and wanted to make a game for people who also like it. There isn't really anything to argue at this point and it just boils down to a personal opinion "I don't like the setting and its designs"
Of course too much of the same can make it less crazy because of how similiar stuff can look and how it becomes generic. And even within stylized and sexualized outfits designers could certainly be more creative at times
As i said i am all about more. Any kind of designs from super fanservicy to realistic and too much of one thing can get boring
Other people already adressed what you said about BF and LoU. Also i wouldn't really consider BF realistic. Its very action movie esque.
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I've never understood it personally. Maybe in 2D art, but in 3D, even now, things are still too 'uncanny valley' for me to consider any 3D model sexy.
So trying really hard, with unrealistically huge boobs, and skimpy outfits regardless of weather/context, is pathetic and often grotesque.
So trying really hard, with unrealistically huge boobs, and skimpy outfits regardless of weather/context, is pathetic and often grotesque.
Whether Quiet's character design is justified by the in-world explanation is debatable though, as evidenced by the fact that we are still debating this years later. I'm not sure what point you're making in regards to TLOU and Bayonetta.
The issue with your analogy is that this isn't a subject that comes down purely to taste. For things like food and genre preferences your analogy is applicable. Heck, I'd say it'd work for Microsoft vs Sony vs Nintendo video game debates which can consist of more than just taste, but ultimately it's a low stakes argument. Somebody shits on one of the 3 and it doesn't matter because they're all huge corporations raking in cash and our arguments here don't mean much to them. Bringing that kind of analogy in here is problematic because women face inequality on a daily basis in their real lives. So coming home and looking for an escape in video games only to find that women are treated like objects can hit too close to home. This subject has plenty of room for discussion about how sexuality is employed in video games for men and women, when that crosses into objectification, and how that impacts gamers, the industry, and society.
TL:DR- The subject of sexualization and objectification of women in games needs to be treated with respect and a certain level of decorum because it can negatively affect people and has societal implications. Comparing it to forum warrior fights misses the important nuances specific to the subject at hand.
- Status