Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)

Weltall Zero · Apr 13, 2018

This might be slightly off-topic but this thread is the closest community of feminism-knowledgeable people I have at hand. I recently posted something I've been thinking about regarding gender differences, and it's one point where I seem to disagree with some feminists.

Weltall Zero said:
I fully agree with this. Excessive zeal in erasing gender differences usually results in the exaltation of "traditionally male" values and deprecation of "traditionally female" values; i.e. if you are a woman who wants to stay at home raising your children, you're "backwards". Ironically this perception doesn't apply to men who do so (they're "so progressive"), so it becomes yet another way in which women are oppressed.

What society should do is start appreciating these traditionally female values for the pillar of society they are, no matter who does them. There is no civilization if nobody takes care of the next generation, why isn't this seen as crucial work?

The other reason gender difference erasure bothers me is ignoring valuable qualities; in fact many of my views might be seen as female extremism. I mean, women are better at communicating, emphatizing and multitasking, so why are most bosses men, let alone most politicians? It would make more sense for me if women were in charge!

It is my intuition that actively downplaying gender differences is an artifact of the fight of feminism against a patriarchal society where "male characteristics" were seen as good and "female characteristics" as inferior; and that in an hypothetic post-patriarchal society, gender differences would be embraced and leveraged as there would be no stigma associated with them. But as this is a topic I've been mulling on for years and not really discussed with any other feminists (mainly because I know pretty much none in real life), I wanted to get some comment on it.

Twig · Apr 13, 2018

I dunno if that's been my experience. I almost always see feminists championing the idea of men being the stay-at-home parent. (If they want to be.) Among other things.

Also as to the last part in your quoted post, I honestly don't have the knowledge to back this up, but that sounds more like a trained behavioral quality than an in-born one? There are obviously biological differences between the biological sexes, but. I dunno, haha.

Deleted member 12009 · Apr 13, 2018

Twig said:
Also as to the last part in your quoted post, I honestly don't have the knowledge to back this up, but that sounds more like a trained behavioral quality than an in-born one? There are obviously biological differences between the biological sexes, but. I dunno, haha.

This stood out to me as well. I do think the larger point still stands- that feminine traits shouldn't be shunned. This really doesn't seem contrary to my understanding of feminist ideals and is part of a larger conversation on patriarchy and masculine purity.

Dary · Apr 13, 2018

I mean, women are better at communicating, emphatizing and multitasking

And herein lies the problem: we genderise personality traits and skills. There's no reason boys can't do those things as well as girls, but society doesn't expect it of them (and you could even argue that girls develop those traits because they're having to pick up the slack). Instead, we reinforce toxic behaviours from infancy because "that's what boys do".

I've heard numerous stories of boys treating girls (or, indeed, women, especially their own mothers) like shit...and people laughing it off. "Boys will be boys!" they always say.

Fuck off.

Which reminds me that girls "aren't supposed to swear". See how shit this is? We literally assign people an identity before they can even think for themselves, then expect them to conform, because humans are stupid and need to shove everything in neatly labelled boxes.

"Feminine traits"? They're fucking traits. Anyone can have them.

(if it wasn't obvious, this is one of my major bugbears in life XD)

Deleted member 12009 · Apr 13, 2018

Dary said:
"Feminine traits"? They're fucking traits. Anyone can have them.

Not sure if that was directed at me, but I fully agree with you all the same.

Dary · Apr 13, 2018

saintpride said:
Not sure if that was directed at me, but I fully agree with you all the same.

Naw, not you, just...THE WORLD.

Weltall Zero · Apr 13, 2018

Dary said:
And herein lies the problem: we genderise personality traits and skills. There's no reason boys can't do those things as well as girls, but society doesn't expect it of them (and you could even argue that girls develop those traits because they're having to pick up the slack). Instead, we reinforce toxic behaviours from infancy because "that's what boys do".

I've heard numerous stories of boys treating girls (or, indeed, women, especially their own mothers) like shit...and people laughing it off. "Boys will be boys!" they always say.

Fuck off.

Yeah, this is the nature vs nurture question all over again, and I get that it is extremely thorny. The example above is a perfect one of what I mentioned about "perceived traditionally male" traits being exalted (in this case, excused) by society. I think we agree that men being aggressive being seen as a positive trait is the result of a patriarchal society, right?

That said, outright adopting a strict dogma of "there are no differences at all" and dismissing any potential evidence to the contrary out of hand also feels "wrong" for me to do. I find it hard to put it into words but it's a bit like the reason why "I don't see color" becomes potential erasure of valuable diversity, identity and cultural aspects. Does that make any sense at all?

Dary said:
Which reminds me that girls "aren't supposed to swear". See how shit this is? We literally assign people an identity before they can even think for themselves, then expect them to conform, because humans are stupid and need to shove everything in neatly labelled boxes.

"Feminine traits"? They're fucking traits. Anyone can have them.

I meant statistical differences more than categorical ones ("on average, women are" rather than "all women are"), and particularly about skills rather than (expected) behaviours, but I understand that it's easy for me to make this (perhaps trivial) distinction from the confort of knowing society won't try to used them against me. Being a guy means I have the luxury of being fascinated by (hypothetical, perceived or actual) differences between genders, rather than think about what creative ways society is going to turn them against me yet again.

Dary said:
(if it wasn't obvious, this is one of my major bugbears in life XD)

It is, but that makes you point of view particularly valuable to me. Unfortunately it probably makes discussing this topic bothersome to you, for which I apologize.

rras1994 · Apr 13, 2018

Weltall Zero said:
That said, outright adopting a strict dogma of "there are no differences at all" and dismissing any potential evidence to the contrary out of hand also feels "wrong" for me to do. I find it hard to put it into words but it's a bit like the reason why "I don't see color" becomes potential erasure of valuable diversity, identity and cultural aspects. Does that make any sense at all?

I meant statistical differences more than categorical ones ("on average, women are" rather than "all women are"), and particularly about skills rather than (expected) behaviours, but I understand that it's easy for me to make this (perhaps trivial) distinction from the confort of knowing society won't try to used them against me. Being a guy means I have the luxury of being fascinated by (hypothetical, perceived or actual) differences between genders, rather than think about what creative ways society is going to turn them against me yet again.

Traits are traits. It's not that feminism is exalting "masculine" traits, it's saying that when women do those same things they are treated as negative. A man is assertive, a woman is bosy. A man is authoritive, a women is shrill. A man is confident, a woman is up herself. Women aren't different than men, we get angry, upset and struggle to control ourselves as much as men do. We just don't get to get away with it as much as men. I cannot get away with the same behaviour men can. I just can't. It's got nothing to do with me "inately" being more caring or understanding, I have to be. It's expected of me. And I'll point out that traditional feminine characteristics tend to revolve around constantly putting others before yourself. I'll note that in your original post, you discribed traditional female values as the pillar of society. Yeah, society wouldn't survive without the work women do, because they are constantly supporting everyone else. At the expense of themselves. We should not continue to push for any group to put themselves last in terms of need. Everyone should take a piece of the burden. I don't need to be told how it's great that I'm somehow naturally more caring, nurturing and communitive - I don't want to be placed into that expectation, which inevitably happens. In Uni, since girls are apparently better at communication and writing, in group work I was always expected to do the report writing cus I was expected to be better at it. I'm not. I ended up having to be cus otherwise we would have failed. And it backfired on the guys too, cus they ended up not really developing that important skill as they just accepted they wouldn't be good at it and therefore didn't try. But I ended up having to put in much more work to get the same grade as the others. And if I didn't, sure they would have got a lower mark, but so would I. There wasn't a choice. When you percieve traits/skills as specific to a gender, those expectations follow you. And you can't shake them off or get away from them. And it also works in the inverse, that it ends up people thinking you can't do something else, or won't be as good as it as a man. It forces you in a box, and it makes it very difficult to get out of the box. And what's worse is that people don't even realise they are being sexist. They aren't actively being douchbags so it's a lot harder to prove, and thus fight against.

Dary · Apr 13, 2018

Weltall Zero said:
Yeah, this is the nature vs nurture question all over again, and I get that it is extremely thorny. The example above is a perfect one of what I mentioned about "perceived traditionally male" traits being exalted (in this case, excused) by society. I think we agree that men being aggressive being seen as a positive trait is the result of a patriarchal society, right

That's my take on it. As has been brought up previously in this thread (I think?), there are plentiful examples of strong, warrior women/goddesses in ancient cultures, who certainly don't embody what we consider the "feminine ideal", and I think that points to a marked shift in the perception of women over time - a perception ultimately shaped by, and for, men.

Weltall Zero said:
That said, outright adopting a strict dogma of "there are no differences at all" and dismissing any potential evidence to the contrary out of hand also feels "wrong" for me to do. I find it hard to put it into words but it's a bit like the reason why "I don't see color" becomes potential erasure of valuable diversity, identity and cultural aspects. Does that make any sense at all?

It does, and it's certainly complicated. Untangling society from hundreds - thousands - of years of social mores isn't easy. It might even be impossible. But genderising what are the basic traits of being a Decent Person (empathy, being a good listener etc) is ... yeah. And that's what we, as a society, do: push all the responsibility for being a decent human being on women, so men can do whatever the hell they want without worrying about the mess.

Saying "that's just the way things are" just strikes me as an excuse for things - men, especially - not to change.

Weltall Zero said:
It is, but that makes you point of view particularly valuable to me. Unfortunately it probably makes discussing this topic bothersome to you, for which I apologize.

Nah, it's not a problem. We won't get anywhere as a society if we don't discuss these things!

Weltall Zero · Apr 13, 2018

rras1994 said:
Traits are traits. It's not that feminism is exalting "masculine" traits, it's saying that when women do those same things they are treated as negative. A man is assertive, a woman is bosy. A man is authoritive, a women is shrill. A man is confident, a woman is up herself. Women aren't different than men, we get angry, upset and struggle to control ourselves as much as men do. We just don't get to get away with it as much as men. I cannot get away with the same behaviour men can. I just can't. It's got nothing to do with me "inately" being more caring or understanding, I have to be. It's expected of me. And I'll point out that traditional feminine characteristics tend to revolve around constantly putting others before yourself. I'll note that in your original post, you discribed traditional female values as the pillar of society. Yeah, society wouldn't survive without the work women do, because they are constantly supporting everyone else. At the expense of themselves. We should not continue to push for any group to put themselves last in terms of need. Everyone should take a piece of the burden. I don't need to be told how it's great that I'm somehow naturally more caring, nurturing and communitive - I don't want to be placed into that expectation, which inevitably happens. In Uni, since girls are apparently better at communication and writing, in group work I was always expected to do the report writing cus I was expected to be better at it. I'm not. I ended up having to be cus otherwise we would have failed. And it backfired on the guys too, cus they ended up not really developing that important skill as they just accepted they wouldn't be good at it and therefore didn't try. But I ended up having to put in much more work to get the same grade as the others. And if I didn't, sure they would have got a lower mark, but so would I. There wasn't a choice. When you percieve traits/skills as specific to a gender, those expectations follow you. And you can't shake them off or get away from them. And it also works in the inverse, that it ends up people thinking you can't do something else, or won't be as good as it as a man. It forces you in a box, and it makes it very difficult to get out of the box. And what's worse is that people don't even realise they are being sexist. They aren't actively being douchbags so it's a lot harder to prove, and thus fight against.

I see, thanks! I never saw it in terms of expectations and "baselines", but reframing it as such makes it so much clearer to me. I was always first of the class so my mother just grew used to it and was disappointed whenever I got any less than an A; that didn't make for particularly pleasant learning at school and university. And indeed, in groups I simply got used to be the one that pulled the weight. Of course, in my case and everyone like me, it eventually stopped as an adult, when society didn't expect more of me just because (or at least, rewarded me accordingly). For it to continue for the rest of one's life, ugh... I can't even imagine :(. And I myself was doing precisely that.

All of this is extremely enlightening; truly, thank you. Unsurprisingly, there is a lot I hadn't considered, which I more or less suspected and is why I brought up the matter.

Dary said:
It does, and it's certainly complicated. Untangling society from hundreds - thousands - of years of social mores isn't easy. It might even be impossible. But genderising what are the basic traits of being a Decent Person (empathy, being a good listener etc) is ... yeah. And that's what we, as a society, do: push all the responsibility for being a decent human being on women, so men can do whatever the hell they want without worrying about the mess.

That's also something I hadn't seen in this light. My take was that (modern western) society simply didn't care at all about these characteristics (not so much that it cared for them in women only), and instead valued aggressiveness and competition over cooperation; that's what I felt we needed to change. At least our conclusions seem to be pretty similar: that everyone should practice kindness and empathy as much as society traditionally expects from women.

Dary · Apr 13, 2018

rras1994 said:
And I'll point out that traditional feminine characteristics tend to revolve around constantly putting others before yourself. I'll note that in your original post, you discribed traditional female values as the pillar of society. Yeah, society wouldn't survive without the work women do, because they are constantly supporting everyone else. At the expense of themselves.

The basic foundations of an abusive relationship with a narcissist, but on a social scale. It's scary stuff.

Weltall Zero · Apr 13, 2018

I forgot to reply to this part (thanks Dary for requoting):

rras1994 said:
I'll note that in your original post, you discribed traditional female values as the pillar of society. Yeah, society wouldn't survive without the work women do, because they are constantly supporting everyone else. At the expense of themselves. We should not continue to push for any group to put themselves last in terms of need. Everyone should take a piece of the burden.

I fully agree, in case it isn't obvious in my post. But I believe the first step for the realization that the burden needs to be shared, is the realization that there is a burden at all, and that it's such an important, crucial one. As long as society perceives child-rearing as a second-rate, trivial task, there's no incentive for it to equalize who takes care of it.

rras1994 · Apr 13, 2018

Weltall Zero said:
That's also something I hadn't seen in this light. My take was that (modern western) society simply didn't care at all about these characteristics (not so much that it cared for them in women only), and instead valued aggressiveness and competition over cooperation; that's what I felt we needed to change. At least our conclusions seem to be pretty similar: that everyone should practice kindness and empathy as much as society traditionally expects from women.

I will say that you are right that these traits are undervalued - careers that are focus heavily on percieved female skills tend to be underpaid - teaching, nursing, childcare. I would argue they are undervalued because they are associated with women. If more men were expected to embody these traits, I feel like the work would be considered more valuable. There was a thread recently about the pay gap in the Games Industry in the UK, were I saw many argue that it wasn't that women were paid less then men for work, it was that they didn't want to do the same jobs as men like programmer cus they were women and preferred PR or Marketing or something like that, which didn't pay as much. But it in itself is very suspicious that women as a group across all Industries just all so happen to prefer the lower paying jobs. It's likely both that we as a society don't value skills that are percieved as feminine (hence the lower pay in those areas) and that we push women out of the male skill associated jobs.

Weltall Zero · Apr 13, 2018

rras1994 said:
I will say that you are right that these traits are undervalued - careers that are focus heavily on percieved female skills tend to be underpaid - teaching, nursing, childcare. I would argue they are undervalued because they are associated with women. If more men were expected to embody these traits, I feel like the work would be considered more valuable. There was a thread recently about the pay gap in the Games Industry in the UK, were I saw many argue that it wasn't that women were paid less then men for work, it was that they didn't want to do the same jobs as men like programmer cus they were women and preferred PR or Marketing or something like that, which didn't pay as much. But it in itself is very suspicious that women as a group across all Industries just all so happen to prefer the lower paying jobs. It's likely both that we as a society don't value skills that are percieved as feminine (hence the lower pay in those areas) and that we push women out of the male skill associated jobs.

Fully agreed. It all forms a complex, tangled web of causes and effects and self-reinforcement loops that makes it extremely hard to untangle without comprehensive knowledge of how all the parts interact. And unfortunately, it also makes it hard to convince others (especially the ones that don't want to be convinced) that there's an issue at all; they just point at what seem like immutable causes and say "working as intended" / "it's just the way it is / always has been". But these aren't immutable, just a confluence of many interrelated factors that many take for granted.

And I just realized the above pretty much describes society in general. :/

esserius · Apr 14, 2018

To a certain degree, the problem of pay is largely a result of capitalism being oligarchic by nature. It's effectively the evolution of aristocracy, just without any assumed responsibility as a wealthy person.

HyperFerret · Apr 14, 2018

FFXIV announced it was adding skimpy bunny suits for male player characters. (Which I love, I'm gonna wear those bunny ears everywhere)

Que a huge thread on the Japanese forum and a similarly large thread on the subreddit discussing about not being able to turn off other players' customizations because "muh immersion."

Oh, once it was the men being fetishized, now people are uncomfortable with it? It's fine for catgirls to run around in bikinis but not for the guys to wear playboy bunny outfits?

Ferrs · Apr 14, 2018

HyperFerret said:
FFXIV announced it was adding skimpy bunny suits for male player characters. (Which I love, I'm gonna wear those bunny ears everywhere)

Que a huge thread on the Japanese forum and a similarly large thread on the subreddit discussing about not being able to turn off other players' customizations because "muh immersion."

Oh, once it was the men being fetishized, now people are uncomfortable with it? It's fine for catgirls to run around in bikinis but not for the guys to wear playboy bunny outfits?

*pretends to be shocked.

PtM · Apr 14, 2018

Never mind.

HyperFerret · Apr 14, 2018

I love that FFXIV is giving even more options for dudes to be skimpy, it was always a pretty balanced game (or more balanced than most games) in that if gear barely covered the body on a woman, it usually also barely covered the body on a man.

I've been waiting for my bunny suit for a while now, I just can't help by laugh at the people hating on the very idea.

SolidSnakex · Apr 14, 2018

HyperFerret said:
FFXIV announced it was adding skimpy bunny suits for male player characters. (Which I love, I'm gonna wear those bunny ears everywhere)

Que a huge thread on the Japanese forum and a similarly large thread on the subreddit discussing about not being able to turn off other players' customizations because "muh immersion."

Oh, once it was the men being fetishized, now people are uncomfortable with it? It's fine for catgirls to run around in bikinis but not for the guys to wear playboy bunny outfits?

I checked the Subreddit and it really doesn't seem that bad. It seems most find the suggestion ridiculous, and the most upvoted comment (with 2x gold) even makes that point by saying that people somehow didn't have a problem with their "immersion" when female characters were running around in bikini and maid "armor". Some of the Japanese posters on the Square forum are apparently mocking the person that made the OP as well according to a Reddit translation with one asking if the OP would also like an option to turn off everyone in the world except for himself.

RpgN · Apr 14, 2018

HyperFerret said:
FFXIV announced it was adding skimpy bunny suits for male player characters. (Which I love, I'm gonna wear those bunny ears everywhere)

Que a huge thread on the Japanese forum and a similarly large thread on the subreddit discussing about not being able to turn off other players' customizations because "muh immersion."

Oh, once it was the men being fetishized, now people are uncomfortable with it? It's fine for catgirls to run around in bikinis but not for the guys to wear playboy bunny outfits?

Are there pictures/screenshots of the bunny suits for male player characters? I find the thought to be so novel that I can't imagine how it would look like in practice.

Deleted member 18021 · Apr 14, 2018

That thread isn't so bad. It's shockingly polite, but it's also hilariously transparent timing to be asking for this.
I wouldn't be against not seeing every third Catgirl or Au Ra dressed like this, but turning off glamours seems like it would cause trouble than it's worth. It would also make it really obvious just how poor the gear variety situation is.

RpgN said:
Are there pictures/screenshots of the bunny suits for male player characters? I find the thought to be so novel that I can't imagine how it would look like in practice.

They aren't the traditional playboy bunny suits, but like so:

sensui-tomo · Apr 14, 2018

HyperFerret said:
FFXIV announced it was adding skimpy bunny suits for male player characters. (Which I love, I'm gonna wear those bunny ears everywhere)

Que a huge thread on the Japanese forum and a similarly large thread on the subreddit discussing about not being able to turn off other players' customizations because "muh immersion."

Oh, once it was the men being fetishized, now people are uncomfortable with it? It's fine for catgirls to run around in bikinis but not for the guys to wear playboy bunny outfits?

Its probably the same player base that complained about that one armor that Final fantasy mobius game had for the main protag which more or less equated to "we dont want men looking sexualized"

UtterlyPerplexed · Apr 14, 2018

Don't get me started on Mobius. Just one glance at a good number of their female card arts and nearly every costume that belongs to Meia (with corresponding official artwork) and it's cheesecake central. Male main character showed off skin? Unacceptable. The hypocrisy is even more naked than some of the designs.

Oh and that new Xenoblade 2 thread is another predictable shit show, but that shouldn't shock anybody.

Morrigan · Apr 14, 2018

UtterlyPerplexed said:
Oh and that new Xenoblade 2 thread is another predictable shit show, but that shouldn't shock anybody.

"Stop shitting up Xenoblade threads with your complaints about the designs, make your own thread", they said.

Twig · Apr 14, 2018

Morrigan said:
"Stop shitting up Xenoblade threads with your complaints about the designs, make your own thread", they said.

My thoughts exactly.

Every time.

Xaszatm · Apr 14, 2018

I mean, let's be fair here, this thread is the "shitting on XBC2 female designs" thread :P

rras1994 · Apr 14, 2018

Xaszatm said:
I mean, let's be fair here, this thread is the "shitting on XBC2 female designs" thread :P

Hey! We are an equal opportunity thread here! We will shit on all the bad female designs from any game :D There just happens to be alot of them in Xenoblade 2....

Pascal · Apr 14, 2018

Xaszatm said:
I mean, let's be fair here, this thread is the "shitting on XBC2 female designs" thread :P

And I love this thread for it.

Deleted member 18021 · Apr 14, 2018

Xaszatm said:
I mean, let's be fair here, this thread is the "shitting on XBC2 female designs" thread :P

As all threads should be.

Lotus · Apr 14, 2018

Morrigan said:
"Stop shitting up Xenoblade threads with your complaints about the designs, make your own thread", they said.

Lmao this

SchrodingerC · Apr 14, 2018

Morrigan said:
"Stop shitting up Xenoblade threads with your complaints about the designs, make your own thread", they said.

It's a never ending cycle at this point lol.

Dary · Apr 14, 2018

IT SOLD A MILLION COPIES THAT VALIDATES EVERYTHING!!!

Xaszatm · Apr 14, 2018

Dary said:
IT SOLD A MILLION COPIES THAT VALIDATES EVERYTHING!!!

My reaction to that thread in a nutshell:

Tfritz · Apr 14, 2018

Dary said:
IT SOLD A MILLION COPIES THAT VALIDATES EVERYTHING!!!

You forgot to include the context that "big holiday release on new, wildly hot console" is an extremely niche title on a console with a small install base.

caliph95 · Apr 14, 2018

Morrigan said:
"Stop shitting up Xenoblade threads with your complaints about the designs, make your own thread", they said.

hey sometimes we talk about other games

Choppasmith · Apr 14, 2018

Xaszatm said:
I mean, let's be fair here, this thread is the "shitting on XBC2 female designs" thread :P

It wasn't too long ago when I posted my experience getting to the Blushy Crushy scene in this thread when a couple days or so later, it was talked about in another thread with this thread being referred to as the "awful XBC2 hate thread".

Xaszatm · Apr 14, 2018

Choppasmith said:
It wasn't too long ago when I posted my experience getting to the Blushy Crushy scene in this thread when a couple days or so later, it was talked about in another thread with this thread being referred to as the "awful XBC2 hate thread".

Speaking of which, how far are you in that?

RpgN · Apr 14, 2018

MochaKoffee said:
They aren't the traditional playboy bunny suits, but like so:

Thank you for sharing. It didn't disappoint. It's pretty tacky and ridiculous. It conveys the same feeling with costumes of female playable characters. Only it feels amusing because we don't have enough of those examples for male playable characters. You would hope that guys would be a tiny bit self aware or understand how it feels for girls...other people often take that Mobieus game as an example but I remember vividly how Raiden and especially Vaan were hated for the exact same reason (I don't want to play as a girl but Snake, put on some shirt, looks much better with a shirt with FFTA2 etc). Now some guys are trying to rewrite history, saying that they complained about those characters for being bad characters. I can only hope we will get more such characters to make them know this feeling girls had to deal with for a long time.

rras1994 said:
Hey! We are an equal opportunity thread here! We will shit on all the bad female designs from any game :D There just happens to be alot of them in Xenoblade 2....

Don't remind me of Xenoblade 2. I still can't believe what happened with it. I used to buy all Xenogames but now I will never buy this even if I had a Switch pure out of principle. What happened with the game is pure tragic. It also made me feel bad for supporting the franchise up to this point.

Pablo Mesa · Apr 14, 2018

Morrigan said:
"Stop shitting up Xenoblade threads with your complaints about the designs, make your own thread", they said.

I mean what ks left to discuss about xenoblade design at this point?? Every single possible argument from each side has been done already

Xaszatm · Apr 15, 2018

Pablo Mesa said:
I mean what ks left to discuss about xenoblade design at this point?? Every single possible argument from each side has been done already

And...what is your point?

Choppasmith · Apr 15, 2018

Xaszatm said:
Speaking of which, how far are you in that?

I didn't get much farther than that before getting Guacamelee from Giftbot and Dragon Quest Builders during a special sale and thought I'd take a break to try those games.

Plus I'm visiting and staying with my mom for vacation right now, and she let's me catch up with games on her (nicer than mine) TV, but she has her PC on the other side of the room where she does her point and click games and so I like to watch what I play and thankfully Builders has nothing objectionable or distracting. It's super addicting and scratches that big open world itch left by Breath of the Wild nicely (not really comparable in scope, but it's nice).

I'm even telling my sister this, asking me if I'm taking Xenoblade with me, and she goes

(in cheerful, mildly singsong voice) "Oh yes, we must teach you how to be a good maid." "Yeah Mom would hate that."

And before some lurker sees this post. Yeah I know that's not the end all be all of the game. That's just the bit that really sticks out to her that we both sort of love to hate on.

Pablo Mesa · Apr 15, 2018

Xaszatm said:
And...what is your point?

What is the point of making a thread about a topic there is nothing left to be discussed about?? ( till they reveal the new DLC blades as 1 seems to be a girl)

Xaszatm · Apr 15, 2018

Pablo Mesa said:
What is the point of making a thread about a topic there is nothing left to be discussed about?? ( till they reveal the new DLC blades as 1 seems to be a girl)

And the OP who made that thread isn't one of us who have been complaining about it on this thread? And, since I AM going to be making a Xenoblade Chronicles 2 thread....eventually why shouldn't someone make a thread topic? How do you know there is nothing left to be discussed?

Jotakori · Apr 15, 2018

Pablo Mesa said:
What is the point of making a thread about a topic there is nothing left to be discussed about?? ( till they reveal the new DLC blades as 1 seems to be a girl)

Maybe because people are still playing it and just coming to the table with their thoughts, and deserve to put those thoughts out there on what they did and didn't like? Plus, needless sexualization like to XB2's extent is extremely frustrating when in a game that should be able to stand on its own without it; some may want to vent and I don't see why that's a problem.
And I mean all that aside, that thread has 20 pages already so clearly people still want to discuss it.

SENPAIatLARGE · Apr 15, 2018

MochaKoffee said:
That thread isn't so bad. It's shockingly polite, but it's also hilariously transparent timing to be asking for this.
I wouldn't be against not seeing every third Catgirl or Au Ra dressed like this, but turning off glamours seems like it would cause trouble than it's worth. It would also make it really obvious just how poor the gear variety situation is.

They aren't the traditional playboy bunny suits, but like so:

This is the gold standard for games with fanservice imo. Cheesecake for everyone no matter your preference

Pablo Mesa · Apr 15, 2018

Xaszatm Jotakori ok, granted thread has a merit of being, but still then discussion will not be anything new from what been arguments back and forth already for the past 5-6 months (till the new Blades are showcased and the Story DLC)

Daysean · Apr 15, 2018

Not trying to derail or anything, but i am honestly amazed that this thread is still going since its creation on Nov 7, 2017

Redcrayon · Apr 15, 2018

Pablo Mesa said:
What is the point of making a thread about a topic there is nothing left to be discussed about?? ( till they reveal the new DLC blades as 1 seems to be a girl)

It's April, the game released as a £60 title in December. I imagine a lot of people that didn't want to pick up another lengthy game last year are just now getting around to try it. Not everyone plays a game at launch and then thinks there's nothing else to talk about regarding it, or that it's 'old news' just four months later. People still bring up well-trod arguments about stuff they didn't like about games from decades ago, let alone a few months.

I imagine those of us that discussed the character designs in previous threads probably follow rpg news fairly closely, but the Switch is going to have plenty of owners after Christmas looking for a new big game after finishing Zelda- that's the advertising line they used for it here anyway.

RpgN · Apr 15, 2018

Redcrayon said:
It's April, the game released as a £60 title in December. I imagine a lot of people that didn't want to pick up another lengthy game last year are just now getting around to try it. Not everyone plays a game at launch and then thinks there's nothing else to talk about regarding it, or that it's 'old news' just four months later. People still bring up well-trod arguments about stuff they didn't like about games from decades ago, let alone a few months.

I imagine those of us that discussed the character designs in previous threads probably follow rpg news fairly closely, but the Switch is going to have plenty of owners after Christmas looking for a new big game after finishing Zelda- that's the advertising line they used for it here anyway.

This and other replies are good explanations. Plus I find it odd that the thread needs to be justified. We still have threads being made about old games like FFVII and what not. There is always something to discuss unless mods think threads shouldn't be made.

Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)

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