Unfortunately, I feel like the saga isn't complete just yet. I feel like we're all here waiting for the other shoe to drop.
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"Channel Not So Awesome" - Ex-contributors of Channel Awesome detail a history of abuse (READ OP)
- Thread starter The Bear
- Start date
Unfortunately, I feel like the saga isn't complete just yet. I feel like we're all here waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Great first post, welcome.
Indeed, also, welcome.
I am very curious if they'll attempt to release another statement, and if it'll be as aggressively defensive as their last.
He keeps making statements that are ultimately meaningless. Malcolm, if you have nothing to say, don't say it. At this point, he's just alienating people more and more.
Thank you! I've honestly been looking for a place like this for ages. Over the past few years it's been hard to find places to chat with like minded people beyond some highly moderated subreddits.
Just a small observation, but I find it interesting this thread continues to attract new members.
Part of me really wants them to release another statement and see this blow up even more, but I also really want to be surprised and see them owning up to it all and trying to make some attempts to fix it.
That said I think its either going to be they make it worse or they say nothing at all.
Malcolm's tweets are pissing me off as well. If there's really some horrible shit going on can he tell us? Can he at least say which producers are toxic and we're supposed to stay away from? What evidence is supposed to be so damning yet hasn't been shown yet? If he can't talk about it then why is he allowed to allude to it at all, repeatedly, with nary a word on this holy grail of truth and virtue from CA management or anyone else involved?
And if it's supposed to be something to do with what's been released, then just say what you think the response means! Everyone from former producer to casual fan to forum poster to youtube pundit has only been able to see the response as bullshit with claims and evidence actually supporting things in the google doc! If your interpretation is so different from everyone else's and you are so apparently passionate about this subject to the point you insist everyone 'read', maybe you should share your interpretation to make it a little easier!
I apologise for the tone but I just can't stand this sort of smarter-than-thou attitude with no good faith and nothing to show for it. I actually can't stand it.
And if it's supposed to be something to do with what's been released, then just say what you think the response means! Everyone from former producer to casual fan to forum poster to youtube pundit has only been able to see the response as bullshit with claims and evidence actually supporting things in the google doc! If your interpretation is so different from everyone else's and you are so apparently passionate about this subject to the point you insist everyone 'read', maybe you should share your interpretation to make it a little easier!
I apologise for the tone but I just can't stand this sort of smarter-than-thou attitude with no good faith and nothing to show for it. I actually can't stand it.
Oh no, I'm starting to agree actually. I intensely dislike this attempt by CA to leave things hanging in an attempt to sidestep any blame. What they're implicitly saying is, "You can't judge us yet, the whole story isn't out yet".
It is interesting, as we discussed earlier its the most viewed thread in Era's history in OT.
I keep wanting to make silly jokes, like I just quickly photoshopped a picture of Spoony's face on Gandalf the White saying "I come back to you now at the turning of the tide" but with his fanbase being toxic, I hesitate posting it even if it is lighthearted.
The reason the old one got so big was because Marzgurl tweeted about it. I think she and a couple others brought a lot of attention and traffic to the site.
I think its best to let Spoony jokes lay for awhile, he needs the break.
Oh, i agree, or at least he could say "We have more to say, please wait for our next response expected this week" if there is actually something in the works, instead these vague none answers that imply there is some greater truth we're just unaware of or blind to. This all does far more harm than good for him and CA.
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I'll admit that how I found the site. While I hadn't seen any of her content for ages, I was following quite a few of the ex-CA producers. In regards to Spoony, I think he just needs to stay off of the internet and sort his life out.
Speaking of their next response, I wonder how Brad's conversation with the Walkers went last weekend. He's shut tight as a clam, so it can't have changed much.
Absolutely.
So let's go back to the next best thing... charts!
I'm including the other column this time so you all can see the raw numbers. Even though everything is high, daily views remains soft.
And there it is in graph form:
Also, I wonder why today was hit more with unsubscribes than the previous two days. It's odd how that works out. Spit-balling, I imaging two hundred more unsubscribes for the day, topping out around -1800, and total views for today will probably be under, or very close, to around yesterday's views. Also, if people were doubting about the Jack and Jill video being posted later to Youtube than normal, you can see on the graph the big spike a few days ago and how it isn't in simpatico with the other spikes (and you can also see the much greater drop-off in daily views since this began.
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It's not much at all, but I hope this vid of 3 cats wearing shades helps us through this bummer news
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g0uLsZWSjk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g0uLsZWSjk
Completely agree, and no need to apologize. He's already released a statement on his own experiences, which were positive, and that should've been enough. To keep passive aggressively vague-tweeting about it only makes him and CA look worse. It's funny that he's saying how people have been venomous about the situation when his own statements come off pretty toxic. I understand being loyal and defensive of your organization, company, etc, but it's only making matters worse if he continues making comments like this.
There was a positive tweet from Malcolm? It's funny how I can't remember that, nor can I imagine it with the way he's been acting.
Tamara and Malcolm's first response was perfect of them and shouldn't have needed any elaboration. I feel bad for them, because it seems like they are in a bind, and they're getting a lot of heat from people and it isn't their fault. Malcolm has had some terrible things tweeted at him, and Tamara's poor video from last week got destroyed in dislikes and comments.
This was his first statement on things. He got a couple of things wrong, like saying Holly was gone by the time he got there, but he quickly corrected himself.
Could be a prominent YouTuber covered the topic, or an article came out raising awareness of it all. I do think we will see some more coverage of it even if the actual incident will die down.
His positive experiences about working with Channel Awesome and its staff and management, which is very fair for him to say, he can express his own experiences, but to go further than that is really where things get messy, and he seems to want to continue down that path.
The lengths some people are going to in order to make themselves feel vindicated in this whole thing is getting a little extreme.
BTW, I never mentioned it in my last post in this thread, but I used to go by Razma. I realized after I posted that my screen names don't match, but I started using this one because of everything that happened with Justin 4 years ago. Seeing him becoming so vilified that people are ready to bring torches and pitchforks for a dead man is really tough. I know people have reached out to Jenny (his widow) and that isn't fair either...
BTW, I never mentioned it in my last post in this thread, but I used to go by Razma. I realized after I posted that my screen names don't match, but I started using this one because of everything that happened with Justin 4 years ago. Seeing him becoming so vilified that people are ready to bring torches and pitchforks for a dead man is really tough. I know people have reached out to Jenny (his widow) and that isn't fair either...
Malcom just doesn't know when to stop. At this point he's probably a lost cause. It could come out that he's a Trumper and I probably wouldn't bat an eye now.
I can only hope Tamara keeps herself busy with her video games and movies to open her mouth anymore. I haven't seen anything from her for a while aside from non-CA stuff. (But I worry a lot)
I feel Mike and company somehow convinced them that it's all lies and sent them (Mainly Malcom) out to be their defense. But it really hurts to watch them do this because I love Malcom and Tamara way more than I've ever liked Doug or Rob. If I wanted anyone to succeed it'd be them. But all we can do is watch them dig themselves (Mainly Malcom) deeper and deeper unable to stop them.
Please guys. Jump in the lifeboats. The ship is pretty much underwater. Read the room.
I can only hope Tamara keeps herself busy with her video games and movies to open her mouth anymore. I haven't seen anything from her for a while aside from non-CA stuff. (But I worry a lot)
I feel Mike and company somehow convinced them that it's all lies and sent them (Mainly Malcom) out to be their defense. But it really hurts to watch them do this because I love Malcom and Tamara way more than I've ever liked Doug or Rob. If I wanted anyone to succeed it'd be them. But all we can do is watch them dig themselves (Mainly Malcom) deeper and deeper unable to stop them.
Please guys. Jump in the lifeboats. The ship is pretty much underwater. Read the room.
So I sat down to read the document and man, what a complete managerial mess.
That said I think the funniest bit of unintentional comedy is Doug asking someone "What do you base your funny voice on?" only to be told "Nothing. This is just my voice."
That said I think the funniest bit of unintentional comedy is Doug asking someone "What do you base your funny voice on?" only to be told "Nothing. This is just my voice."
That's the Malcolm I thought I knew. With the accusation in his recent tweet, it really does seem like someone's leaning into him.
This thread isn't about Doug Walker, but it's kind of about Doug Walker, and is a thing that has bugged me pretty muichsince #ChangeTheChannel started. Actually, it's a thing that's bugged since #MeToo as well. I'm sure for some people it absolutely true they never liked him anyway, but a lot of it feels performative, like they're trying to win brownie points/are afraid people like Lupa and Holly and MarzGurl will think less of them if they knew they were fans of DOug before this all came out.
Crud, I actually thought it would post a link to the rest of the thread too. I suck at this. Good thing there was only one other tweet in the thread, so I won't make this post unreadably large.
Crud, I actually thought it would post a link to the rest of the thread too. I suck at this. Good thing there was only one other tweet in the thread, so I won't make this post unreadably large.
I wouldn't be shocked if what's left of CA is trying to push them to defend them, but it's also possible that they're just being dumb, or at least Malcolm is now.
They definitely don't deserve harassment. However, the longer CA remains quiet, the worse things may get for the remaining contributors. It's not exactly fair for people to target Tamara, Malcolm, and perhaps even Brad and Larry when any further responses from CA mgmt is beyond their control (that we are aware of).
I wouldn't be shocked either, but these mealy mouthed vagueness is really getting on my nerves. But then I'm not really in his situation nor have I ever been.
THANK YOU! I may not be the only one who think some of his work has critical merit, but I sure feel like it!
Initially i thought perhaps hes scared for his job, hes acting a bit rash, i get that, but he kept going, and then kept going after the JW stuff came out which is where i really thought a line would be drawn. I was really disappointed, and now i'm just kind of bitter. Like i said before, i've no goodwill left for Malcolm i'm afraid, and i quite liked him.
I think for quite a lot of us this hasn't changed our opinion on Doug Walkers creative output, I think for many we kind of outgrew him a long time ago (or perhaps he just didn't evolve), and you're right, some of his work may have merit, swampbird provided some great personal examples of that, and we do owe some gratitude to him for assisting in launching the careers of some other wonderful talent, but thats not say that this doesn't shed a different light on a lot of his past work.
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His tweets increasingly come across like CA management told him that there was some other truth to what was going on with some parts of this... but literally just that, that some other truth existed, and not what the truth actually is. So he's basically waiting on the same reveal from management, which I'm sure will be a trainwreck if they ever actually attempt to do it.
...I know I'll probably end up watching B99 eventually but now I'm just confused how Fievel even comes up.
Same age, same boat here.
When this first started and I made the original thread, it was mostly silly dunking on Doug, Rob, and Mike. There were some serious stuff, like the rape scene in To Boldly Flee, people being duct taped to sets and passing out, but a lot was just incompetence like craft services, not knowing basic filmmaking stuff and having enough camera, not having scripts be done on time so people could actually learn their lines, and so on. Only until the document hit did we kind of know the seriousness of some things, and as days and weeks went on. In hindsight, if we knew the things today that we knew a month ago, and knowing that the thread would have been the only compiled source of all there grievances up until the release of the document, I would have made the thread a little more somber in tone (still, I was able to site to most of the tweets, so there's that at least). But, even with the seriousness of some stuff, like Mike Ellis and Holly, her having to be escorted home with these guys with baseball bats and a samurai sword to a safe house, where they tested their pepper spray by spraying it into a sink, is still just comical. Even after the first response, it still felt like it could be a little on the light side with some very heavy things thrown in. Then, they did that second response, outed Jew Wario and a victim of rape, and now it's just a sad travesty.
Edit: the book and the movie are different, I get it! :p
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I mean...there were huge sections of the book relating to the depressing story of a young, naive boy trying to escape a wretched life in Eastern Europe, only to face prejudice, beatings, several near-death experiences, and repeated rejection by the establishment he admired. So like, not completely the same, but there's a similar undercurrent to it all.
Haven't seen the film so can't comment on that.
Conversely: that is NOT in the movie! (Haven't read the book) guess my comparison isn't the greatest then.
I do think thats why this has been such a journey for so many of us, as it did start off fairly lighthearted, we had some fun kinda dunking on some past shenanigans, and then the document came out and we realized there was some very serious grievances, misogyny and wrongdoings, and then man did things take a dark turn with Jew Wario, as you said. Its been a month since you posted that initial thread too, feels like a week.
... The book actually kind of did, but implied that Tommy may have been the victim of sexual abuse. Its a grey area, and dark.
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Ah that explains it. Yeah, I listened to the book (As read by Greg Sestero!) years before the film was even picked up. Meant to see the film, never did.
I really did make a lot of mental comparisons between Doug and Tommy as this has happened, but I keep running into two major differences; Tommy's an immigrant trying to succeed in a foreign country, Doug (While born abroad) is completely American, and two- Tommy is successful outside his acting career (Somehow...) and Doug is only successful in his "acting" career.
Also, those only reading the book are missing out- no-one does a better Tommy Wiseau impression than Greg.
Ah yes, I remember that. That was...well that was a thing...
Tommy has a good amount of money, the book hints that it comes from a person (a elderly one?) he takes care of and also the jeans business (he might have inherited that from the person).
Honestly the book is incredibly vague on that point- Greg talks about that stuff but never makes the same connection, and I don't see it either. Tommy's old friend who was dead and yet an Executive Producer for The Room didn't seem to have any real wealth. No clue about the jeans business.
But enough about Tommy Wiseau, we're here for Channel Awesome. I've come far too close to derailing lol.
Its quite good, and other than that section is mostly a light read.
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That pretty much sums up what I feel on it, and I have felt slightly uncomfortable with the how-could-anyone-ever-like-this tone a lot of comments have taken.
While it's much easier to admit now that NC just isn't very good and other such things, full disclosure: until just before the doc came out (ie when i started hearing allegations at the end of March), I was still subbed to NC on youtube and had been a pretty consistent watcher of his for well over a year. Before then I had ducked in and out of watching him before sort of rediscovering him through youtube, getting nostalgic for the days I had watched him since 2011. (looking back on it now, it's likely due to the 'retirement' of NC in 2012 that started me being inconsistent in watching him). I had... many problems with things he said about feminism and masculinity and the like, but I'm no stranger to problematic media; I mean fuck, I'm watching a ton of Super Sentai and Kamen Rider recently where you can count on homophobic and transphobic shit getting rolled out and in some cases the idea of a female kamen rider is treated as a joke. I digress, but the point is I still loved watching his stuff and still found humour in it despite cringing at those elements.
I also admit, completely, that I not only watched but loved To Boldly Flee.
Yeah. I know.
I just really liked seeing a ton of producers I liked getting together and going on this fun adventure. I revelled in the stupid shit like the space houses and the distraction song because, hey, it was all in good fun. Even Linkara - who I've been consistently watching and have honestly been more of a fan of than nc since last year or so - enjoys it so I felt justified in that even more. I also had recently found a lot of joy in Doug and Rob's first viewing series even though I was vaguely aware of Rob being an asshole.
I do want to admit a couple of caveats here to be completely honest, however. Part of why I was able to enjoy the anniversary movies so much was because of an illusion I and a lot of others here laboured under -- that it was just a group of people getting together and enjoying themselves. This meant I didn't take it as seriously and I got a vibe that everyone loved doing what they were doing so I got sucked into it as well. It's only after the doc came out with things like no craft supplies and the horrific rape joke rewrites that I've come to realise how completely opposite it was from how I initially thought.
Secondly... I stand by what I said earlier in the thread. I do think NC is just not a good series at all for serious critical analysis in the slightest. Even if I'm only able to admit this in hindsight and did in fact take a lot of Doug's "criticisms" at face value while I enjoyed him, it is mindless entertainment with no critical merit whatsoever at best.
To sum up... I didn't just watch but loved both NC and the anniversary movies until the truth recently came out. I fully admit to both this and my being uncomfortable with the idea and tone that you had to be stupid to ever find merit in them, though I also admit that with both new information and an unbiased hindsight said new information has sobered me up to, they are pretty much trash regardless.
... One day something similar is gonna come out for Game Grumps and it's gonna force me through this wringer all over again.
When all of this dies down (eventually???), I hope we can create a community thread for... fans of ex-channel awesome people or whatever fits best.
I really don't think we've seen too much of people suddenly disliking the NC just because of this news, i think that sentiment had been around for quite sometime, really starting when Lupa left initially, at least thats when it did for me, and just how stale and poor his critique was, he just never grew as a creator or critic.
Nothing to be ashamed of for enjoying the movies within the context of its just friends having fun making a passion project, but like i said this all certainly sheds a different light on a lot of it.
I do think we're safe with the Game Grumps, while i'm sure there is some behind the scenes drama, i think Arin and Danny are legitimately good people, love each other and those they work with and try their best to create and build a healthy work environment.
I hope so. It's just with a lot of their jokes about offence and tumblr and stuff that I wince and get that same "yeah this is just one bad callout away from me dropping these guys and seeing they were always really bad about this stuff" vibe I'm experiencing with NC right now.
I think this is an intersection of factors-- like you said, some of it's performative virtue (have we found a phrase that successfully reclaims "virtue signalling" from the abyss of meaninglessness, yet?). Stuff that gradually morphs from "productive conversation" to "using these words and liking/buying these things makes me a good person"-- I think of a post on tumblr I saw on a blog run by and mostly for black women, asking people to please stop tagging reblogs of her stuff "I'm white", as the action had transmogrified from a mark of good faith participation to just... co-opting someone else's time and labor with a tag. It's eerily easy to curate a worldview/the worldview you want people to see on the internet, without doing much mental, emotional or actual work.
And some of it, more in the case of JW, maybe, is we the audience wanting to believe that we can see through people. That our own goodness is reflected in the stuff we buy/like. It would be less confusing if it weren't true, sometimes, that the media/figures we're drawn to correlates with our personal beliefs.
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I'm a pretty big GameGrumps fan and its really rare they've ever said anything thats raised a flag (well, except for Jon) and if they have they've said so much thats overwhelmingly positive that I truly think they're solid people.
Best to not engage, just a crappy drive-by post.
At work. Bored. Wanted to see why this thread was 500 pages long since I had no clue wtf a channel awesome even was. Left in disbelief that people care this much about a washed up youtube channel.