YouTuber Linus breaks his iMac Pro, wants it to be repaired but Apple refuses

Cipherr · Apr 18, 2018

8byte said:
If they do not replace everything, there is a possibility that they damaged other hardware that could fault down the line. Since most repairs are covered under limited warranties, if they don't repair or replace those parts, they could be on the hook for liability for those faults, and would have to repair it again at their own expense.

Nope, warranty isn't an issue in this situation as its been voided. So that entire quote is void. They have no risk of being on the hook for anything. Leaving nothing but the actual cost of the repair which falls 100% on the owner solely. Even if it required replacing everything, its on his dime not theirs, and they don't have the liability risk.

And all of this is outside of the stupidity of releasing a product that supposedly can't be repaired in the first place.

prophetvx said:
Apple sell the retina screens for a 15 inch mac book for around $1300. I can't imagine how much they are selling the iMac pro screen for but I'd assume it's more than $2,500. Logic board another $1,500. PSU, $250? Then labour. In the car world if it costs 80% of the value or more, it's a write off.

Ridiculous prices or not, he destroyed 2 major components of the computer.

In the car world its a total loss because your carrier owes you only up to the value of the vehicle. However even if your repair bill for your car exceeds the value of the car itself, nothing stops you from footing the bill and having it repaired anyway if you decided you wanted to do so. You just cannot force your insurance carrier to pay above the cost of the vehicle itself.

Some of these comparisons are garbage man.

8byte · Apr 18, 2018

Sei said:
Simple lesson. Don't buy Apple.

Not because of their policies, but because they make hardware that can't be easily repaired.

nib95 said:
That is so crazy. Apple does the stupidest shit sometimes. Releasing a new super premium product that is not properly repairable. Ok then.

This is not the case. It is repariable, they simply don't WANT to repair it, because it doesn't offer them reasonable financial gain, and increases their liability for future repairs. Please do not pay attention to the OP as it omits key facts here.

8byte · Apr 18, 2018

Cipherr said:
Nope, warranty isn't an issue in this situation as its been voided. So that entire quote is void. They have no risk of being on the hook for anything. Leaving nothing but the actual cost of the repair which falls 100% on the owner solely. Even if it required replacing everything, its on his dime not theirs, and they don't have the liability risk.

And all of this is outside of the stupidity of releasing a product that supposedly can't be repaired in the first place.

If they REPAIR it, then it gets a new, DIFFERENT warranty. This is exactly the same as you sending in your PS4 to Sony once it is out of warranty for repairs. They will repair it or send you a new one with a NEW limited warranty. Have you never sent something in for repairs before?

Furthermore, regardless if it's on his dime or theirs, if the repairs don't yield the same amount of profit as smaller jobs, why take it on? Why rebuild the entire unit when you can focus your staff towards more profitable endeavors?

Are we doing to force companies to take each and every repair job now just because we're entitled? It is the choice of the business to decide if they are going to sacrifice the time for a job, and if it isn't as profitable as others...why take it? You'd literally be LOSING money on the job because you could be making MORE on other jobs.

This is basic economics here. Common sense.

Enzom21 · Apr 18, 2018

ZeroX said:
Read the thread. It is repairable. It just isn't if you total the machine through dismantling it yourself.

No, Apple sucks!

PixelatedProphet · Apr 18, 2018

Willectro said:
It makes you seem like you know what you're talking about when you say Cupertino instead of Apple. Ex. "That last update Redmond pushed out was bad."

I disagree. When you disassemble a product, whether it's a computer or car (as in his example), and make a video about it, and break the product in the process, why is the manufacturer responsible, regardless of if you will pay or not? And why does the video include shameless advertising jammed down the viewers throat? Why is advertising needed in this video? Same reason the dumb pleb dropped the screen - because it's content.

I like Linus, but this is just silly. When you fuck around with expensive hardware all the time like they do, unfortunately you will be eating some costs.

https://www.engadget.com/2018/04/11/ftc-warranty-warning/
"FTC makes clear 'warranty void if removed' stickers are illegal"

"Those stickers on gadgets that say you'll void your warranty if they're removed? You've probably come to expect them whenever you purchase a new device. The FTC has just made clear, however, that those warranty notices are illegal when it fired off warning letters to six companies that market and sell automobiles, mobile devices and video game consoles in the US. It didn't mention which automakers and tech corporations they are, but since the list includes companies that make video game consoles, Sony and Microsoft could be two of them.

Under the 1975 Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which the commission cited in its letter, companies can't put repair restrictions on their products unless they provide the parts or services for free or receive a waiver from the FTC. Thomas B. Pahl, Acting Director of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection, said in a statement:"

cubanb · Apr 18, 2018

You break it , you bought it

nib95 · Apr 18, 2018

ZeroX said:
Read the thread. It is repairable. It just isn't if you total the machine through dismantling it yourself.

It isn't totalled. Three parts need replacing or repairing, and he's willing to pay for it. A screen a main board and a PSU shouldn't be difficult or impossible to replace or repair, and if they are, Apples engineering of this product is quite frankly shit, as is their customer service and post support.

It doesn't really matter how these parts were broken, teardown, massive drop, age or whatever else, they're not catastrophic issues and should absolutely be repairable. I had my main board, display and battery replaced in an older Macbook Pro laptop. The display because it was giving me screen burn (despite being a TFT) and the main board and battery just through age and wear. This shit happens.

Sei · Apr 18, 2018

8byte said:
This is not the case. It is repariable, they simply don't WANT to repair it, because it doesn't offer them reasonable financial gain, and increases their liability for future repairs. Please do not pay attention to the OP as it omits key facts here.

I know it's repairable. Just saying, not easily repairable.

I agree that just replacing some parts it's not enough for liability clearance.

BigDes · Apr 18, 2018

I do wonder though that if they had just lied and said hey we dropped it by accident would Apple have repaired it?

8byte · Apr 18, 2018

nib95 said:
It isn't totalled. Three parts need replacing or repairing, and he's willing to pay for it. A screen a main board and a PSU shouldn't be difficult or impossible to replace or repair, and if they are, Apples engineering of this product is quite frankly shit, as is their customer service and post support.

It doesn't really matter how these parts were broken, teardown, massive drop, age or whatever else, they're not catastrophic issues and should absolutely be repairable. I had my main board, display and battery replaced in an older Macbook Pro laptop. The display because it was giving me screen burn (despite being a TFT) and the main board and battery just through age and wear. This shit happens.

The logic board accounts for like 70% of the system. The screen is roughly 25% of the cost. These aren't minor repairs. This isn't just replacing a hard drive or a GPU. It is a tiny box crammed with a lot of technology, and in order to achieve that you have to be exceptionally precise with literally everything.

If you aren't going to reasonably process the information provided to you, why even engage in discussion? If you hate apple, you hate apple, but that's no reason to dive into misinformation.

Cipherr · Apr 18, 2018

8byte said:
If they REPAIR it, then it gets a new, DIFFERENT warranty. This is exactly the same as you sending in your PS4 to Sony once it is out of warranty for repairs. They will repair it or send you a new one with a NEW limited warranty. Have you never sent something in for repairs before?

Furthermore, regardless if it's on his dime or theirs, if the repairs don't yield the same amount of profit as smaller jobs, why take it on? Why rebuild the entire unit when you can focus your staff towards more profitable endeavors?

Are we doing to force companies to take each and every repair job now just because we're entitled? It is the choice of the business to decide if they are going to sacrifice the time for a job, and if it isn't as profitable as others...why take it? You'd literally be LOSING money on the job because you could be making MORE on other jobs.

This is basic economics here. Common sense.

Have You? You are wrong. The warranty is NOT AUTOMATICALLY REINSTATED AND EXTENDED UNLESS THE ORIGINAL ISSUE WAS UNDER WARRANTY. Thats how it works. Don't believe me? Go ahead and walk your iPhone into an Apple store right now and get a broken display fixed with no AC+ to cover it and tell me if they extend your warranty. They don't. It doesn't work that way.

Shit call them and ask them if you don't believe me: 1-800-MY-APPLE

Why would they randomly extend the warranty for you after a repair you pay for that was your fault and not covered... Makes zero sense.

NotVeryFriendly · Apr 18, 2018

nib95 said:
It isn't totalled. Three parts need replacing or repairing, and he's willing to pay for it. A screen a main board and a PSU shouldn't be difficult or impossible to replace or repair, and if they are, Apples engineering of this product is quite frankly shit, as is their customer service and post support.

It doesn't really matter how these parts were broken, teardown, massive drop, age or whatever else, they're not catastrophic issues and should absolutely be repairable. I had my main board, display and battery replaced in an older Macbook Pro laptop. The display because it was giving me screen burn (despite being a TFT) and the main board and battery just through age and wear. This shit happens.

Actually because of how he damaged it the device would be considered totalled. Because of opening it and damaging (multiple) components while doing so, service on the device is not accepted simply because the full extent of damage may not be immediately clear and the total cost of repair (including labor and time) may exceed the cost of a new unit. If these components were faulty and it became clear through normal use, while a replacement is frankly more likely than a repair, a repair would have been much more feasible (and in either case, the device would have been serviced). That he opened it up and caused the damage is what renders it ineligible.

Deleted member 21709 · Apr 18, 2018

Redhead On Moped said:
And this is a pro-grade workstation. Anyone who buys this is buying it because they need it and/or will regularly use it and needs it to be at the ready for work.

To offer no resolution is insane.

Nobody who buys it for work is going to open it up to see what's inside though.

Having said that, Apple should offer an option to repair it.

maximumzero said:
I'm honestly a little baffled why this guy would buy an iMac in the first place. Everything I've seen of his seems to PC-centric.

... to make videos about it?

nib95 said:
It isn't totalled. Three parts need replacing or repairing, and he's willing to pay for it. A screen a main board and a PSU shouldn't be difficult or impossible to replace or repair, and if they are, Apples engineering of this product is quite frankly shit, as is their customer service and post support.

It doesn't really matter how these parts were broken, teardown, massive drop, age or whatever else, they're not catastrophic issues and should absolutely be repairable. I had my main board, display and battery replaced in an older Macbook Pro laptop. The display because it was giving me screen burn (despite being a TFT) and the main board and battery just through age and wear. This shit happens.

We have an expert! Nay, a genius..

nib95 · Apr 18, 2018

8byte said:
The logic board accounts for like 70% of the system.

If you aren't going to reasonably process the information provided to you, why even engage in discussion? If you hate apple, you hate apple, but that's no reason to dive into misinformation.

This is in itself a huge flaw in Apples engineering and design then. The fact that they can't just swap out a motherboard and separate components because of an overly complicated and limiting logic board design, which ends up being a detriment to consumers with respect to repairs and post support, not to mention ease and cost of upgrades etc.

asmith906 · Apr 18, 2018

NotVeryFriendly said:
The AppleCare Advisor did say (in his very first conversation with him) that Apple typically won't service a product which has been damaged as his had. This is also stated in the repair terms and conditions. That renders it ineligible for service and because of the way he damaged it, classified as beyond economic repair. The procedure for such is to simply decline service, which is what happened.

It's not just speculation; anybody informed enough with the repair policies will know this is the case, how the device has been classed, and why service denied.

That just seems like a generic TOS not something saying they can't repair this specific product because of damages. This is a company that literally just released an update that kills non genuine touch screens for the 8. So if you crack your screen and buy a new one from eBay since it's impossible to get one from apple since they don't sell the parts you end up with an $800 paper weight and with those terms apple won't fix it. This stuff they get away with is amazing

8byte · Apr 18, 2018

Cipherr said:
Have You? You are wrong. The warranty is NOT AUTOMATICALLY REINSTATED AND EXTENDED UNLESS THE ORIGINAL ISSUE WAS UNDER WARRANTY. Thats how it works. Don't believe me? Go ahead and walk your iPhone into an Apple store right now and get a broken display fixed with no AC+ to cover it and tell me if they extend your warranty. They don't. It doesn't work that way.

Shit call them and ask them if you don't believe me: 1-800-MY-APPLE

Why would they randomly extend the warranty for you after a repair you pay for that was your fault and not covered... Makes zero sense.

https://www.apple.com/legal/sales-support/terms/repair/Retail_Repair_US_Terms_Conditions.html

5. Apple warrants for a period of ninety (90) days from the date of service (1) that service will be performed in a competent and workmanlike manner and (2) that all parts used to service your product will be free from defects in materials and workmanship, unless otherwise specified by Apple. Apple further warrants to the extent permitted by law, that batteries installed as part of Apple's battery replacement service for Apple portable Mac computers will be free from defects in materials and workmanship for one (1) year from the date of service. The foregoing warranty is an express limited warranty and in the event of breach, Apple will either (i) re-perform the service, (ii) repair or replace the part, or (iii) refund the cost of the service provided. In order to claim under the warranty you must return your product to the location where service was performed, at your expense. THIS WARRANTY AND ASSOCIATED REMEDIES ARE EXCLUSIVE AND IN LIEU OF ALL OTHER WARRANTIES, REMEDIES, AND CONDITIONS, WHETHER ORAL OR WRITTEN, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. APPLE SPECIFICALLY DISCLAIMS ANY AND ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. IF APPLE CANNOT LAWFULLY DISCLAIM IMPLIED WARRANTIES, THEN ALL SUCH WARRANTIES ARE LIMITED IN DURATION TO THE EXPRESS LIMITED WARRANTY. SOME STATES (COUNTRIES AND PROVINCES) DO NOT ALLOW LIMITATIONS ON HOW LONG AN IMPLIED WARRANTY (OR CONDITION) MAY LAST, SO THE LIMITATION DESCRIBED ABOVE MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.

Straight form their repair terms and conditions. This is not the same as 3rd party authorized repair vendors who may offer their own warranty solutions that differ from Apples. Do you care to discuss anything else? Or just lie more in a thread that you are taking entirely too personally?

If they make a repair on your hardware, they will cover it with a 90 day limited warranty. :)

BigDes · Apr 18, 2018

Ingueferroque said:
Nobody who buys it for work is going to open it up to see what's inside though.

They might want to open it up in the future to upgrade the ram though. Like there are legitimate reasons to open up a computer.]

The_Inquisitor · Apr 18, 2018

8byte said:
The logic board accounts for like 70% of the system. The screen is roughly 25% of the cost. These aren't minor repairs. This isn't just replacing a hard drive or a GPU. It is a tiny box crammed with a lot of technology, and in order to achieve that you have to be exceptionally precise with literally everything.

If you aren't going to reasonably process the information provided to you, why even engage in discussion? If you hate apple, you hate apple, but that's no reason to dive into misinformation.

They have to be able to replace the logic board. No part on it is 100% not defective. The industry standard is that 200 out of 1 million electronics will fail within 10 years for commercial products. They are likely refusing the repair because the damage was done out of abnormal circumstances. I have mixed feelings about them refusing this.

NotVeryFriendly · Apr 18, 2018

asmith906 said:
That just seems like a generic TOS not something saying they can't repair this specific product because of damages. This is a company that literally just released an update that kills non genuine touch screens for the 8. So if you crack your screen and buy a new one from eBay since it's impossible to get one from apple since they don't sell the parts you end up with an $800 paper weight and with those terms apple won't fix it. This stuff they get away with is amazing

That isn't just a generic terms of service; the advisor warns that device damaged as such can typically not be serviced, and that is applicable to this specific case. The ARS inspects it and determines that yes, it is ineligible and refused service as he was told.

The bolded is irrelevant. Other poor business practices do not mean all business practices are poor. That is not relevant to this topic.

The_Inquisitor said:
They have to be able to replace the logic board. No part on it is 100% not defective. The industry standard is that 200 out of 1 million electronics will fail within 10 years for commercial products. They are likely refusing the repair because the damage was done out of abnormal circumstances. I have mixed feelings about them refusing this.

The bolded is correct. The circumstances which caused the damage (i.e. he opened the device and damaged the components), combined with the extent of the damage, are what classifies this as beyond economic repair and makes it ineligible for service. If the device failed through normal means, the device would be serviced (repaired or replaced).

8byte · Apr 18, 2018

nib95 said:
This is in itself a huge flaw in Apples engineering and design then. The fact that they can't just swap out a motherboard and separate components because of an overly complicated and limiting logic board design, which ends up being a detriment to consumers with respect to repairs and post support, not to mention ease and cost of upgrades etc.

It is not a flaw, it is an intentional design choice for a very compact and sleek performance machine. It is a niche machine.

An F1 race car is exceptionally engineered, and incredibly difficult to work on for the average mechanic, because every single component is finely tuned and precisely installed...does that mean F1 cars are also products of huge flaws? This is absurd logic.

Deleted member 21709 · Apr 18, 2018

BigDes said:
They might want to open it up in the future to upgrade the ram though. Like there are legitimate reasons to open up a computer.]

The ram can only be upgraded by Apple or an authorized pro repair center.

Deleted member 22630 · Apr 18, 2018

The_Inquisitor said:
They have to be able to replace the logic board. No part on it is 100% not defective. The industry standard is that 200 out of 1 million electronics will fail within 10 years for commercial products. They are likely refusing the repair because the damage was done out of abnormal circumstances. I have mixed feelings about them refusing this.

I wouldn't worry, if it was an economic fix Apple would of done it.

MusclesAreGirly · Apr 18, 2018

I can't make heads or tails of what has actually happened, yet.

8byte · Apr 18, 2018

BigDes said:
They might want to open it up in the future to upgrade the ram though. Like there are legitimate reasons to open up a computer.]

By the time you need to upgrade your memory on your iMac Pro, you will almost certainly be outside of the Warranty period. Even then, you can take it to an authorized repair or upgrade center and they can handle it for you and this entire fiasco is 100% avoidable to literally everyday customers. Opening it yourself to generate revenue on YouTube is not the same as a standard consumer.

The_Inquisitor said:
They have to be able to replace the logic board. No part on it is 100% not defective. The industry standard is that 200 out of 1 million electronics will fail within 10 years for commercial products. They are likely refusing the repair because the damage was done out of abnormal circumstances. I have mixed feelings about them refusing this.

Why though? The mixed feelings I mean. Apple is within their rights to refuse service, both legally and logically. He knew the risks, and his situation is extremely circumstantial and in no way can be extrapolated to the huge majority of people (which isn't that many) who will buy an iMac Pro. His experience with this is absolutely meaningless to everyone else who buys an iMac Pro, because almost none of those people will crack it open before their warranty runs out.

nib95 · Apr 18, 2018

8byte said:
It is not a flaw, it is an intentional design choice for a very compact and sleek performance machine. It is a niche machine.

An F1 race car is exceptionally engineered, and incredibly difficult to work on for the average mechanic, because every single component is finely tuned and precisely installed...does that mean F1 cars are also products of huge flaws? This is absurd logic.

Difficult, not impossible. F1 cars literally get stripped apart and pieced together all the damn time. As do cars, mobile phones and countless other devices.

And at the end of the day, if the customer is willing to pay for it, they should be able to repair it. There are other such sleek and similarly designed products on the market like the Dell 5720 all in one that don't have such post support limiting and frustrating engineering and design.

8byte · Apr 18, 2018

nib95 said:
Difficult, not impossible. And at the end of the day, if you customer is willing to pay for it, they should be able to repair it. There are other such sleek products on the market like the Dell 5720 all in one that don't have such post support limiting and frustrating engineering and design.

Again...they CAN repair it. They don't WANT to, because it isn't a cost effective use of their time. It isn't IMPOSSIBLE, it is just complex enough that a full repair is less coss effective than simply selling a new unit to the customer. Just look up opportunity cost and think like a business man, this is not a complicated subject.

And for the third time: This doesn't represent the experience that you or I would have. You or I aren't tearing apart our FIVE THOUSAND DOLLAR COMPUTERS on the internet within hours of getting them to try to "make more money" off it, and then when it's broken...MAKE EVEN MORE MONEY OFF OF IT.

Deleted member 22630 · Apr 18, 2018

nib95 said:
Difficult, not impossible. And at the end of the day, if you customer is willing to pay for it, they should be able to repair it. There are other such sleek products on the market like the Dell 5720 all in one that don't have such post support limiting and frustrating engineering and design.

I agree that Apple's philosophies are troublesome, but I don't think anyone should be forced to repair or do a job just because you will give them money. Also, the amount to make this worth Apple's time, would most likely be so large that you're better of just buying a new iMac Pro.

Sowrong · Apr 18, 2018

Cipherr said:
Have You? You are wrong. The warranty is NOT AUTOMATICALLY REINSTATED AND EXTENDED UNLESS THE ORIGINAL ISSUE WAS UNDER WARRANTY. Thats how it works. Don't believe me? Go ahead and walk your iPhone into an Apple store right now and get a broken display fixed with no AC+ to cover it and tell me if they extend your warranty. They don't. It doesn't work that way.

Shit call them and ask them if you don't believe me: 1-800-MY-APPLE

Why would they randomly extend the warranty for you after a repair you pay for that was your fault and not covered... Makes zero sense.

The original warranty isn't but a new 90 day is.

nib95 · Apr 18, 2018

8byte said:
Again...they CAN repair it. They don't WANT to, because it isn't a cost effective use of their time. It isn't IMPOSSIBLE, it is just complex enough that a full repair is less coss effective than simply selling a new unit to the customer. Just look up opportunity cost and think like a business man, this is not a complicated subject.

And for the third time: This doesn't represent the experience that you or I would have. You or I aren't tearing apart our FIVE THOUSAND DOLLAR COMPUTERS on the internet within hours of getting them to try to "make more money" off it, and then when it's broken...MAKE EVEN MORE MONEY OFF OF IT.

Which goes back to my original point, that this is a poor example of engineering and design, and also customer service and support.

There is little point designing a really sleek looking super expensive product, if a simple display, main board and psu repair resulting from a tear down, is too time consuming, expensive and difficult to repair. These things, whilst expensive, should be easy enough to repair, at least for Apple and its engineers.

One of the things that makes a products design sophisticated and commendable isn't just how it looks, but how practical it is, and part of that practicality stems from how easy and cost effective it is to repair.

Like I said, two of the things he wants repairing I needed repaired with a Macbook Pro. Just through general wear and tear or faults.

Cipherr · Apr 18, 2018

8byte said:
https://www.apple.com/legal/sales-support/terms/repair/Retail_Repair_US_Terms_Conditions.html

5. Apple warrants for a period of ninety (90) days from the date of service (1) that service will be performed in a competent and workmanlike manner and (2) that all parts used to service your product will be free from defects in materials and workmanship, unless otherwise specified by Apple. Apple further warrants to the extent permitted by law, that batteries installed as part of Apple's battery replacement service for Apple portable Mac computers will be free from defects in materials and workmanship for one (1) year from the date of service. The foregoing warranty is an express limited warranty and in the event of breach, Apple will either (i) re-perform the service, (ii) repair or replace the part, or (iii) refund the cost of the service provided. In order to claim under the warranty you must return your product to the location where service was performed, at your expense. THIS WARRANTY AND ASSOCIATED REMEDIES ARE EXCLUSIVE AND IN LIEU OF ALL OTHER WARRANTIES, REMEDIES, AND CONDITIONS, WHETHER ORAL OR WRITTEN, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. APPLE SPECIFICALLY DISCLAIMS ANY AND ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. IF APPLE CANNOT LAWFULLY DISCLAIM IMPLIED WARRANTIES, THEN ALL SUCH WARRANTIES ARE LIMITED IN DURATION TO THE EXPRESS LIMITED WARRANTY. SOME STATES (COUNTRIES AND PROVINCES) DO NOT ALLOW LIMITATIONS ON HOW LONG AN IMPLIED WARRANTY (OR CONDITION) MAY LAST, SO THE LIMITATION DESCRIBED ABOVE MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.

Straight form their repair terms and conditions. This is not the same as 3rd party authorized repair vendors who may offer their own warranty solutions that differ from Apples. Do you care to discuss anything else? Or just lie more in a thread that you are taking entirely too personally?

If they make a repair on your hardware, they will cover it with a 90 day limited warranty. :)

Yes, because while you are close, you are still wrong. Look further:

https://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/wty-refurb.html

------------------

EXCLUSIONS AND LIMITATIONS

This Apple Limited Warranty applies only to hardware products manufactured by or for Apple that can be identified by the "Apple" trademark, trade name, or logo affixed to them. Apple's Limited Warranty does not apply to any non-Apple hardware products or any software, even if packaged or sold with Apple hardware. Non-Apple manufacturers, suppliers, or publishers may provide their own warranties.

Software distributed by Apple under the Apple brand name (including, but not limited to system software) is not covered under this Limited Warranty. Refer to the Apple Computer, Inc., Software License for more information.

Apple and its Authorized Service Providers are not liable for any damage to or loss of any programs, data, or other information stored on any media, or any non-Apple product or part not covered by this warranty. Recovery and reinstallation of system and application software and user data are not covered under this Apple Limited Warranty.

This warranty does not apply: (a) to damage caused by accident, abuse, misuse, misapplication, or non-Apple products; (b) to damage caused by service (including upgrades and expansions) performed by anyone who is not an Apple Authorized Service Provider; (c) to a product or a part that has been modified without the written permission of Apple; or (d) if any Apple serial number has been removed or defaced.
--------------------------------

And thus the part everrrrryone misses because they are (no offense) too busy reading only the first Google result and never digging further. The information you provided does not apply in the case we are talking about in the OP because they voided their warranty with the way they damaged the device. ONLY if the repair was covered under the warranty would they get the extended 90 day extension.

That does not apply in this scenario. Linus willingly and on camera voided the warranty on this device. That falls under the "damage caused by abuse/misuse/misapplication" and fairly IMO. (That's not the issue I have a problem with). Because of that Linus can pay to get repairs done, but the only thing covered is the integrity of the replacement parts used at the time of the replacement. He wouldnt get 90 days of anything. Remember, he wouldnt qualify for a refurb in this case.

Sowrong said:
The original warranty isn't but a new 90 day is.

Neither is in this scenario because the warranty is voided from the outset. I don't know why the pushback. You all realize this makes perfect sense right? With the way they broke this particular device why on earth would they want to give that person a warranty of any kind. Paid repairs? Sure, but you are on your own after that. This is from what I understand has been entered in this thread an intentionally voided warranty for the sake of a teardown.

8byte · Apr 18, 2018

nib95 said:
Which goes back to my original point, that this is a poor example of engineering and design, and also customer service and support.

There is little point designing a really sleek looking super expensive product, if a simple display, main board and psu repair resulting from a tear down, is too time consuming, expensive and difficult to repair. These things, whilst expensive, should be easy enough to repair, at least for Apple and its engineers.

One of the things that makes a products design sophisticated and commendable isn't just how it looks, but how practical it is, and part of that practicality stems from how easy and cost effective it is to repair.

Sorry man, I just don't think you understand any of this. Like, at all. It really looks like you're talking about things you're utterly clueless about, making baseless assumptions, all the while talking in circles and bringing up points I've addressed and debunked. You do you, but I don't think this is the topic for you. Especially not if you're going to talk about technical issues with little technical understanding and just a basic philosophy of "what you believe". You're just making baseless claims or excuses instead of just backing down and accepting very simple ideas. You don't always have to be "right".

Deleted member 3758 · Apr 18, 2018

SolidChamp · Apr 18, 2018

apieceofstrange said:
please stop referring to Apple as Cupertino

This. WTF?

8byte · Apr 18, 2018

Cipherr said:
Yes, because while you are close, you are still wrong. Look further:

https://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/wty-refurb.html

------------------

EXCLUSIONS AND LIMITATIONS

This Apple Limited Warranty applies only to hardware products manufactured by or for Apple that can be identified by the "Apple" trademark, trade name, or logo affixed to them. Apple's Limited Warranty does not apply to any non-Apple hardware products or any software, even if packaged or sold with Apple hardware. Non-Apple manufacturers, suppliers, or publishers may provide their own warranties.

Software distributed by Apple under the Apple brand name (including, but not limited to system software) is not covered under this Limited Warranty. Refer to the Apple Computer, Inc., Software License for more information.

Apple and its Authorized Service Providers are not liable for any damage to or loss of any programs, data, or other information stored on any media, or any non-Apple product or part not covered by this warranty. Recovery and reinstallation of system and application software and user data are not covered under this Apple Limited Warranty.

This warranty does not apply: (a) to damage caused by accident, abuse, misuse, misapplication, or non-Apple products; (b) to damage caused by service (including upgrades and expansions) performed by anyone who is not an Apple Authorized Service Provider; (c) to a product or a part that has been modified without the written permission of Apple; or (d) if any Apple serial number has been removed or defaced.
--------------------------------

And thus the part everrrrryone misses because they are (no offense) too busy reading only the first Google result and never digging further. The information you provided does not apply in the case we are talking about in the OP because they voided their warranty with the way they damaged the device. ONLY if the repair was covered under the warranty would they get the extended 90 day extension.

That does not apply in this scenario.

Neither is in this scenario because the warranty is voided from the outset.

Hey bud, that sentence means the warranty becomes void if those circumstances apply, not that your device is ineligible for a warranty post repairs.

As an example, if you take your device in for warranty repairs, and then drop it into a bucket of water, the warranty is void and no longer covers your device.

Sowrong · Apr 18, 2018

Cipherr said:
Yes, because while you are close, you are still wrong. Look further:

https://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/wty-refurb.html

------------------

EXCLUSIONS AND LIMITATIONS

This Apple Limited Warranty applies only to hardware products manufactured by or for Apple that can be identified by the "Apple" trademark, trade name, or logo affixed to them. Apple's Limited Warranty does not apply to any non-Apple hardware products or any software, even if packaged or sold with Apple hardware. Non-Apple manufacturers, suppliers, or publishers may provide their own warranties.

Software distributed by Apple under the Apple brand name (including, but not limited to system software) is not covered under this Limited Warranty. Refer to the Apple Computer, Inc., Software License for more information.

Apple and its Authorized Service Providers are not liable for any damage to or loss of any programs, data, or other information stored on any media, or any non-Apple product or part not covered by this warranty. Recovery and reinstallation of system and application software and user data are not covered under this Apple Limited Warranty.

This warranty does not apply: (a) to damage caused by accident, abuse, misuse, misapplication, or non-Apple products; (b) to damage caused by service (including upgrades and expansions) performed by anyone who is not an Apple Authorized Service Provider; (c) to a product or a part that has been modified without the written permission of Apple; or (d) if any Apple serial number has been removed or defaced.
--------------------------------

And thus the part everrrrryone misses because they are (no offense) too busy reading only the first Google result and never digging further. The information you provided does not apply in the case we are talking about in the OP because they voided their warranty with the way they damaged the device. ONLY if the repair was covered under the warranty would they get the extended 90 day extension.

That does not apply in this scenario.

Neither is in this scenario because the warranty is voided from the outset. I don't know why the pushback. You all realize this makes perfect sense right? With the way they broke this particular device why on earth would they want to give that person a warranty of any kind. Paid repairs? Sure, but you are on your own after that. This is from what I understand has been entered in this thread an intentionally voided warranty for the sake of a teardown.

Because they have to warranty their work. It doesn't matter if the product is out of warranty, if someone is paying for parts and labor they're getting a 90 day limited warranty on those parts working as intended. I worked for Apple.

Deleted member 4034 · Apr 18, 2018

Redhead On Moped said:
I am absolutely livid.
I am so mad after watching this.

Save that energy for when something actually happens to you.

NotVeryFriendly · Apr 18, 2018

nib95 said:
Difficult, not impossible. And at the end of the day, if you customer is willing to pay for it, they should be able to repair it. There are other such sleek products on the market like the Dell 5720 all in one that don't have such post support limiting and frustrating engineering and design.

nib95 said:
Which goes back to my original point, that this is a poor example of engineering and design, and also customer service and support.

There is little point designing a really sleek looking super expensive product, if a simple display, main board and psu repair resulting from a tear down, is too time consuming, expensive and difficult to repair. These things, whilst expensive, should be easy enough to repair, at least for Apple and its engineers.

One of the things that makes a products design sophisticated and commendable isn't just how it looks, but how practical it is, and part of that practicality stems from how easy and cost effective it is to repair.

Like I said, two of the things he wants repairing I needed repaired with a Macbook Pro. Just through general wear and tear or faults.

He can pay for the repair. The payment is the cost of a new device.

Dell is an odd example, they have the same policy (http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/usc...mer-basic-hardware-service-description-en.pdf) and would also refuse service in this instance:

1. LIMITATIONS TO SERVICE COVERAGE. THIS AGREEMENT IS OF LIMITED DURATION AND COVERAGE. In addition to the other limitations set forth in this Agreement, Service will only be provided in the Covered Service Area, and this Agreement extends only to original purchasers of the System shown on your invoice and to any person who buys the System and this Agreement from the original purchaser or a subsequent transferee; as long as all transfer procedures have been complied with. This Agreement extends only to uses for which the System was designed. Except as stated below, the services that Dell,Dell's Authorised Reseller, or Dell's Authorised Service Provider agrees to provide under this Agreementare labor only which is necessary because of any defect which exists or occurs in materials or workmanship in the System or in any System component covered in your warranty. Preventive maintenance is not included. Installation, de-installation, or relocation services and operating supplies are not included. Repairs necessitated by software problems or as a result of alteration, adjustment, or repairby anyone other than Dell, Dell's Authorised Reseller, or Dell's Authorised Service Provider (or their representatives) and repair services which are necessary due to manufacturer's recall of Systems or System components are not included. Dell, Dell's Authorised Reseller, and Dell's Authorised ServiceProvider are not obligated to repair any System or System component in the following instances:

a. damage resulting from accident, misuse, neglect, failure to follow instructions for proper use, care or cleaning of the System, or abuse of the System component (such as, but not limited to, use of incorrect line voltages, use of incorrect fuses, use of incompatible devices or accessories, improper supplies) by anyone other than Dell (or its representatives),

b. damage resulting from an act of God such as, but not limited to, lighting, flooding, tornado, earthquakes, tidal waves and hurricanes,

c. failure due to an external factor (fire, flood, failures or fluctuations of electrical power or air conditioning),

d. repairs due to excessive use, wear and tear,

e. use of components or software not supplied by Dell,

f. the moving of the System from one geographical location to another or from one entity to another, or

g. where a service technician determines there is no trouble found (e.g., the error cannot be re- created).

EDIT: HP mentioned in the quote below is less clear, but:

Eligibility. HP's service, support and warranty commitments do not cover claims resulting from:
1. improper use, site preparation, or site or environmental conditions or other non-compliance with applicable Supporting Material;
2. Modifications or improper system maintenance or calibration not performed by HP or authorized by HP;
3. failure or functional limitations of any non-HP software or product impacting systems receiving HP support or service;
4. malware (e.g. virus, worm, etc.) not introduced by HP; or
5. abuse, negligence, accident, fire or water damage, electrical disturbances, transportation by Customer, or other causes beyond HP's control

I believe the bolded would also disqualify it.

Zing · Apr 18, 2018

Redhead On Moped said:
What I don't get is why they can't just bill Linus the cost of repair and parts and just have him ship that one out and get a certified refurb pro. That seems like the right thing to do. Why not just do that? What happened to world class customer support.

I'm trying to figure out why you care, let alone why you are "livid"?

Oh shit why did I even press play. I legitimately feel dumber for having watched 10 seconds of this video.

nib95 · Apr 18, 2018

8byte said:
Sorry man, I just don't think you understand any of this. Like, at all. It really looks like you're talking about things you're utterly clueless about, making baseless assumptions, all the while talking in circles and bringing up points I've addressed and debunked. You do you, but I don't think this is the topic for you. Especially not if you're going to talk about technical issues with little technical understanding and just a basic philosophy of "what you believe". You're just making baseless claims or excuses instead of just backing down and accepting very simple ideas. You don't always have to be "right".

Nah, you're evidently just willing to accept or defend what I'd consider subpar post support and repair limitations, presumably because you're a fan of the company, product and/or brand.

The reality is this issue likely wouldn't have occurred with similar competing products or other popular companies like Dell or HP, and is instead more of an Apple centric limitation in design and show of anti-consumerism. Of course companies like Dell could refuse the repair, but they likely wouldn't because it likely wouldn't be as prohibitively expensive or complicated, and ultimately the customer is still paying for it.

Personally I think the logic board being so over encompassing and unified is a negative. Whilst it may be elegant in terms of what it allows aesthetically externally, it is fundamentally prohibitively expensive and complex to repair (without replacement) and also to upgrade (eg the components soldered on to it that in other systems simply just slot in).

Something like this is a far more practical and consumer friendly solution to me, even if it isn't as pretty or sophisticated looking.

P. S. I'm a Mac user myself.

Tbm24 · Apr 18, 2018

8byte said:
It is not a flaw, it is an intentional design choice for a very compact and sleek performance machine. It is a niche machine.

An F1 race car is exceptionally engineered, and incredibly difficult to work on for the average mechanic, because every single component is finely tuned and precisely installed...does that mean F1 cars are also products of huge flaws? This is absurd logic.

I mean, you can still replace any broken parts in an F1 car just about, and they do is likely the point here. Swapping the logic board means they'd still retain their cpu, memory, and ssd. These three things alone make up a significant chunk of the overall cost of the iMac Pro. It's just silly to suggest these things cant be replaced when they clearly can. If apple determines that's not worth their time, that's on Apple, of which then I can criticize that decision.

Deleted member 9207 · Apr 18, 2018

vodalus said:
I think the real solution is, don't buy this product.

Never buying from Cupertino.

So, how much's an Imac Pro going for from Apple these days?

theusedversion · Apr 18, 2018

saenima said:
It' Huelen. It's always a bit.

Ohhhh I remember this person. I thought this person seemed familiar.

Cipherr · Apr 18, 2018

Sowrong said:
Because they have to warranty their work. It doesn't matter if the product is out of warranty, if someone is paying for parts and labor they're getting a 90 day limited warranty on those parts working as intended. I worked for Apple.

If true this is genuinely and truthfully news to me. I had a 4S OOW and took it in for repairs and was told upon picking it up I had zero coverage for anything repaired during the service because it was so far OOW at the time I took it in. I remember coming home and trying to research it and the above was as close as I could find to back up the employees word.

CrunchyFrog · Apr 18, 2018

Reversed said:
Thought it was this Linus

I imagine his reaction would be similar

Sho_Nuff82 · Apr 18, 2018

nib95 said:
This is in itself a huge flaw in Apples engineering and design then. The fact that they can't just swap out a motherboard and separate components because of an overly complicated and limiting logic board design, which ends up being a detriment to consumers with respect to repairs and post support, not to mention ease and cost of upgrades etc.

But designer electronics have been moving this way for years. I'm sure it's been mentioned but you can't take apart the new Surface Pro either. These companies "achieve" their form factor, battery life, and cooling solutions by redistribution of normal parts, reduction of footprint, and cutting back on traditional attachment/sealing solutions.

Anyone serious about opening up a system should be building their own.

NotVeryFriendly · Apr 18, 2018

nib95 said:
The reality is this issue likely wouldn't have occurred with similar competing products or other popular companies like Dell or HP, and is instead more of an Apple centric limitation in design and show of anti-consumerism. (Editted in:) Of course companies like Dell could refuse the repair, but they likely wouldn't because ultimately it wouldn't be as prohibitively expensive or complicated, and ultimately the customer is still paying for it.

Do you have evidence of this or is it speculation to respond to seeing their terms of service for repairs? Their terms of service as above outline that they have the right to refuse the service. IT's not just a matter of the consumer paying for it, when a device is modified as it was in the original post one cannot be certain that the repair of just the easily identified damaged components is enough to fix the system. The cost of the repair can far exceed the initial perceived cost (ballooning above the unit price) which is why they're typically not touched by companies, because the consumer may simply abandon the device after repairs have been completed if the cost of repair is more than the cost of a new unit. Samsung, Apple, Google, Sony, HP, Dell, Nintendo, and Microsoft to name but a few all have similar policies.

EDIT: I have also learned Dell also classify products as Beyond Economic Repair.

MRORANGE · Apr 18, 2018

Some of these comment on this thread are just poor.

Its pretty clear that he was willing to pay and people saying "derp just get a new one " don't understand the complication of the matter especially in a business critical situations in which data and devices are ireplacable to a business needs and a repair is nessecary.

Locking a device so much that even hour 3rd party licensed apple techs cannot even fix it Ian crazy.

There is a YouTuber whip fixes apple computers for a living and does a great in-depth look at PCB soldering on apple boards and it's amazing the process he has to go through to do the simple fixes fhat a normal motherboard undergoes due to apple's method of hardware protection.

nib95 · Apr 18, 2018

Sho_Nuff82 said:
But designer electronics have been moving this way for years. I'm sure it's been mentioned but you can't take apart the new Surface Pro either. These companies "achieve" their form factor, battery life, and cooling solutions by redistribution of normal parts, reduction of footprint, and cutting back on traditional attachment/sealing solutions.

Anyone serious about opening up a system should be building their own.

Speaking from a personal perspective, whilst I'm not interested in building my own system anymore, I do like having the option of upgrading parts (memory) without having to go through official channels at insane mark ups, or risk soldering, especially out of warranty.

Likewise, I don't want to be lumbered with crazy high repair costs because of all encompassing logic board designs, for what is ultimately very little in the way of practical space saving. Like, this iMac sits on a desk. I really don't care if it's half an inch to an inch thicker if more of the components are traditionally seperate, and easier to repair, replace and upgrade. The latter is far more important to me than very negligible aesthetic differences.

Perhaps in a tablet and things similar I'd think somewhat differently, as these are ultimately mobile devices where space saving is far more rewarding, with greater practical application.

Tbm24 · Apr 18, 2018

Sho_Nuff82 said:
But designer electronics have been moving this way for years. I'm sure it's been mentioned but you can't take apart the new Surface Pro either. These companies "achieve" their form factor, battery life, and cooling solutions by redistribution of normal parts, reduction of footprint, and cutting back on traditional attachment/sealing solutions.

Anyone serious about opening up a system should be building their own.

The bullshit lack of support for the Surface is directly what caused my company to dump it as a supported device. Going to the microsoft store every time it had a problem wasn't an option. So now we use a shitty dell knock off of a surface that's objectively worse but has much better support options.

8byte · Apr 18, 2018

Tbm24 said:
I mean, you can still replace any broken parts in an F1 car just about, and they do is likely the point here. Swapping the logic board means they'd still retain their cpu, memory, and ssd. These three things alone make up a significant chunk of the overall cost of the iMac Pro. It's just silly to suggest these things cant be replaced when they clearly can. If apple determines that's not worth their time, that's on Apple, of which then I can criticize that decision.

That's just it, no one is suggesting they can't be replaced, at least I'm not.

I'm suggesting that the opportunity cost of repairing this device is low, comparatively to doing more mundane, reliable, and speedy repairs. Taking on this repair would be a poor choice, in a business sense, for multiple reasons I've addressed throughout the last few pages.

You can 100% criticise Apple for not taking the iMac Pro in for repairs, but I think it's important to have that cricism come from a reasonable place, not just "oh fuck these guys! They should do it for money!". It's not that simple, as I've addressed with opportunity costs, warranty concerns, and bottom line profits. It's understandable to be upset if Apple refuses in certain situations, but I don't think it's reasonable to be upset because they wouldn't repair something someone intentionally put in jeopardy and destroyed in order to turn profit on the internet. No company, no matter how shitty, big, or profitable they are, should be subject to a loss because one customer broke his own hardware and voided his warranty. That's a risk you take when you break something open and tamper with it. Specifically if the company states in their warranty / policies that they are not obligated to repair broken hardware if it the damages are due to misuse or neglect.

It's silly to apply this specific situation to the whole of customer experience with Apple, because it absolutely does not apply to the rest of us (unless you're ripping apart five thousand dollar machines in your spare time for profit, in which case, learn from his mistakes I guess).

YouTuber Linus breaks his iMac Pro, wants it to be repaired but Apple refuses

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Nice thread btw :)

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