Roguelike - Embrace the dnmRoa

melodiousmowl · Apr 19, 2018

Imagine if your favorite game had infinite replay value and was always a challenge by randomly generating parts of the game? Enter, Roguelikes (and all of their named variations, as well as games that use some form of procedural generation as part of the core game).

Roguelike OT's

Swords of Ditto - http://store.steampowered.com/app/619780/The_Swords_of_Ditto/

Some roguelike traits:

Permadeath (you've got one life to live, baby)
Randomly generated levels
Randomly generated items
Items that dont work the same across plays (a red potion could be one that heals you one time, and sets you on fire the next)
Random enemies
Random enemy placement

Minecraft
Terraria
Portal Knights
Starbound

tmarg · Apr 19, 2018

Most of those aren't roguelikes. I know a lot of people don't like hearing it, but the way mechanics are implemented in games actually matters, is not just pedantic nonsense.

Melchiah · Apr 19, 2018

OP, you should try Let It Die on the PS4, which is an excellent FTP title with Souls-like combat.

melodiousmowl · Apr 19, 2018

tmarg said:
Most of those aren't roguelikes. I know a lot of people don't like hearing it, but the way mechanics are implemented in games actually matters, is not just pedantic nonsense.

What's your delineation? Some games are definitely roguelike-likes as I like to coin them. And unfortunately theres no good term for games that are random/procedurally generated but not roguelikes, at least to my knowledge.

Xelan · Apr 19, 2018

melodiousmowl said:
What's your delineation? Some games are definitely roguelike-likes as I like to coin them. And unfortunately theres no good term for games that are random/procedurally generated but not roguelikes, at least to my knowledge.

Most people these days use the term rogue-lite for games that only borrows some of the features used in traditional roguelikes.

melodiousmowl · Apr 19, 2018

Melchiah said:
OP, you should try Let It Die on the PS4, which is an excellent FTP title with Souls-like combat.

Looks interesting - kinda like dead rising. Are there MTs? How much do they interfere with playing?

melodiousmowl · Apr 19, 2018

Corven said:
Most people these days use the term rogue-lite for games that only borrows some of the features used in traditional roguelikes.

So, dungeons of dredmor is a roguelike - random levels, you keep nothing between playthroughs, etc. yeah?

Do you start to consider things like item unlocks or permanent changes to the start of the game as starting to be something else?

Or is it just changing from overhead turn-based gameplay that is the line?

tmarg · Apr 19, 2018

melodiousmowl said:
What's your delineation? Some games are definitely roguelike-likes as I like to coin them. And unfortunately theres no good term for games that are random/procedurally generated but not roguelikes, at least to my knowledge.

To be honest, I don't love the term in the first place, I don't thing genres need to be named after one specific game, especially when so few people have actually played that game, and the mechanics that define the genre are being increasingly used in all sorts of otherwise unrelated games.

But if we are going to assume that it is a useful term to have, the games you list all have several problems. The one I personally take the most offence to is the faux-permadeath mechanics that accomplish the exact opposite of what permanent death does in a true rogue-like.
In a traditional rogue-like, there is practically no grinding, as every event is important, and even challenges that would be considered filler in other games must be completed as optimally as possible to make further progress possible. In the emerging rogue-like inspired games, failure is not only expected, it is often required, which takes the tight, tense gameplay that defines the original games and turns it into a grind fest.

Twig · Apr 19, 2018

melodiousmowl said:
Looks interesting - kinda like dead rising. Are there MTs? How much do they interfere with playing?

There are. They aren't necessarily necessary, but they do help, to a point.

The problem with Let It Die comes with time, though. It's just a huge fucking grind after a point. And it can't even be alleviated by dumping money into the game, not really. It's just... time. You can pay money to Not Die, technically, but you'll be beating your head against a wall unless you level up high enough etc etc etc.

I loved that game a lot until I hit that wall. ):

EDIT: It took me way too long to understand what the last word of the thread title was supposed to mean haha.

Melchiah · Apr 19, 2018

melodiousmowl said:
Looks interesting - kinda like dead rising. Are there MTs? How much do they interfere with playing?

Nothing is gated behind microtransactions, but using real money certainly makes some of it more convenient, like the Express Pass (think of it as the monthly fee for MMOs) which gives you certain benefits, but you can play the game just fine without one. All in-game credits can be earned by playing, mostly from Tokyo Death Metro raids and completing quests. There are some difficulty spikes, that are good to know beforehand though. Unlock new fighter grades only when you're ready for it (e.g. grade 5 when you have tier 3 gear, grade 6 when you have tier 4 gear), since you unlock higher level Haters by doing so. I learned that the hard way. There's also a spike when you reach +20 floors, and it's advisable to upgrade your gear accordingly. I went through most of the game with Iron weapon and DIY Attack armor. It's also advisable to carry few Frongus with you, so you can deal with the Haters/Hunters more easily (some Hunters are immune to it though), and use auto-reviving Lifeshrooms that you get from Pillbugs on +10 floors.

EDIT:

Twig said:
There are. They aren't necessarily necessary, but they do help, to a point.

The problem with Let It Die comes with time, though. It's just a huge fucking grind after a point. And it can't even be alleviated by dumping money into the game, not really. It's just... time. You can pay money to Not Die, technically, but you'll be beating your head against a wall unless you level up high enough etc etc etc.

I loved that game a lot until I hit that wall. ):

Some of the upper tier gear can certainly take time to upgrade. Especially if it requires certain materials, like War Ensemble Red Metal or Reversal Metal, which are more time-consuming to acquire.

Has it been long since you played the game? I ask, because it's become somewhat easier during the year I've played it. There's a shop that appears three times a week, where you can buy materials with in-game credits, which you can earn aplenty from Tokyo Death Metro and the current weekly quests. I get about 500k Kill Coins and SPLithium every monday, and more from TDM raids and fights.

The bosses give faction metal rewards more often now, and the login and TDM rewards also give higher level materials. There's an event going on right now, which grants 6-star materials as login rewards, which you can only earn from +40 floors.

ara · Apr 19, 2018

Guess this is as good a thread as any to ask: what other good or great roguelikes/lites are there on Switch in addition to Binding of Isaac?

Twig · Apr 19, 2018

Melchiah said:
Nothing is gated behind microtransactions, but using real money certainly makes some of it more convenient, like the Express Pass (think of it as the monthly fee for MMOs) which gives you certain benefits, but you can play the game just fine without one. All in-game credits can be earned by playing, mostly from Tokyo Death Metro raids and completing quests. There are some difficulty spikes, that are good to know beforehand though. Unlock new fighter grades only when you're ready for it (e.g. grade 5 when you have tier 3 gear, grade 6 when you have tier 4 gear), since you unlock higher level Haters by doing so. I learned that the hard way. There's also a spike when you reach +20 floors, and it's advisable to upgrade your gear accordingly. I went through most of the game with Iron weapon and DIY Attack armor. It's also advisable to carry few Frongus with you, so you can deal with the Haters/Hunters more easily (some Hunters are immune to it though), and use auto-reviving Lifeshrooms that you get from Pillbugs on +10 floors.

EDIT:

Some of the upper tier gear can certainly take time to upgrade. Especially if it requires certain materials, like War Ensemble Red Metal or Reversal Metal, which are more time-consuming to acquire.

Has it been long since you played the game? I ask, because it's become somewhat easier during the year I've played it. There's a shop that appears three times a week, where you can buy materials with in-game credits, which you can earn aplenty from Tokyo Death Metro and the current weekly quests. I get about 500k Kill Coins and SPLithium every monday, and more from TDM raids and fights.

The bosses give faction metal rewards more often now, and the login and TDM rewards also give higher level materials. There's an event going on right now, which grants 6-star materials as login rewards, which you can only earn from +40 floors.

Yeah I played it near launch. Honestly don't really want to go back, but I have considered it a few times. Maybe some day. Good to hear it's better!

1upsuper · Apr 19, 2018

ara said:
Guess this is as good a thread as any to ask: what other good or great roguelikes/lites are there on Switch in addition to Binding of Isaac?

As far as roguelites go, Enter the Gungeon, Darkest Dungeon, and Don't Starve are good.

For roguelikes, Yodanji is a nice, simple title that's best in short bursts. It's actually pretty tough and has a large amount of yokai for you to unlock and use, each with unique movesets.

melodiousmowl · Apr 19, 2018

ara said:
Guess this is as good a thread as any to ask: what other good or great roguelikes/lites are there on Switch in addition to Binding of Isaac?

Not too many off the top of my head... umm Crypt of the necrodancer, crawl

ElephantShell · Apr 19, 2018

Is Slay the Spire a roguelike? or lite? I've been obsessed with that this year.

simtmb · Apr 19, 2018

Could drag this into an endless argument of what exactly qualifies to be a rougelike.

If it's randomly generated and has permadeath as a feature, its often categorized as a roguelike (or sometimes roguelite? silly term), that's why you see anything from a traditional dungeon crawler to a shooter bearing the label as they feature these two pillars.
But in truth, there isn't exactly an agreed definition, the only thing close to one would be the Berlin interpretation, so I'd suggest anyone curious to play the originals; Rogue, Moria, Angband etc and see how they compare and make up your own mind.

On-topic, my favorites would be the Chunsoft ones, Mystery Dungeon series games, and one I've been playing recently that is quite similar to Shiren is DragonFangZ, a strong recommendation to those that like the Shiren games, as it plays very well.

melodiousmowl · Apr 19, 2018

tmarg said:
To be honest, I don't love the term in the first place, I don't thing genres need to be named after one specific game, especially when so few people have actually played that game, and the mechanics that define the genre are being increasingly used in all sorts of otherwise unrelated games.

But if we are going to assume that it is a useful term to have, the games you list all have several problems. The one I personally take the most offence to is the faux-permadeath mechanics that accomplish the exact opposite of what permanent death does in a true rogue-like.
In a traditional rogue-like, there is practically no grinding, as every event is important, and even challenges that would be considered filler in other games must be completed as optimally as possible to make further progress possible. In the emerging rogue-like inspired games, failure is not only expected, it is often required, which takes the tight, tense gameplay that defines the original games and turns it into a grind fest.

I actually don't like the unlocking mechanic all that much (im assuming this is what you mean by fake permadeath), but the games that use it a little (binding of isaac) or a lot (enter the gungeon) I never felt compelled to play just to unlock new dungeon resources.

I also appriciate games taking the core concepts and mixing it up, theres no need to keep playing rogue, imho

Melchiah · Apr 19, 2018

Twig said:
Yeah I played it near launch. Honestly don't really want to go back, but I have considered it a few times. Maybe some day. Good to hear it's better!

I've actually thought about quitting for good now, that they announced tier 5 gear and grade 7 fighters. I just got my Waiting Room defenses optimized with T4 gear and G6 fighters, and I really don't want to go through the grind again. I've enjoyed the game a lot, but it's time do something else. I'll have to see what the Killer 7 event offers next month though, before I bid my farewell. ;)

melodiousmowl · Apr 19, 2018

simtmb said:
Could drag this into an endless argument of what exactly qualifies to be a rougelike.

If it's randomly generated and has permadeath as a feature, its often categorized as a roguelike (or sometimes roguelite? silly term), that's why you see anything from a traditional dungeon crawler to a shooter bearing the label as they feature these two pillars.
But in truth, there isn't exactly an agreed definition, the only thing close to one would be the Berlin interpretation, so I'd suggest anyone curious to play the originals; Rogue, Moria, Angband etc and see how they compare and make up your own mind.

On-topic, my favorites would be the Chunsoft ones, Mystery Dungeon series games, and one I've been playing recently that is quite similar to Shiren is DragonFangZ, a strong recommendation to those that like the Shiren games, as it plays very well.

Wayyyy back in the late 80's, there was this roguelike for mac that was semi-futuristic and for the life of me I cant remember the name. One of 3 games from being a kid I cant remember and I cant find them on archive sites.

ara · Apr 19, 2018

1upsuper said:
As far as roguelites go, Enter the Gungeon, Darkest Dungeon, and Don't Starve are good.

For roguelikes, Yodanji is a nice, simple title that's best in short bursts. It's actually pretty tough and has a large amount of yokai for you to unlock and use, each with unique movesets.

melodiousmowl said:
Not too many off the top of my head... umm Crypt of the necrodancer, crawl

Great, thanks! Aside from Yodanji none of these are exactly new names to me, but I've only tried Don't Starve before so I'll be sure to take a look at the others. Pardon the stupid meme, but roguelites are perfect on the Switch. Good games to play when you're lying in bed, listening to podcasts.

As for "real" roguelikes, I'll have to get back to Caves of Qud soon. Bought it a while back and while it seemed like it could be fantastic, I never ended up really putting time in to learn it due to other big games getting in the way.

I'll have to take a look at Slay the Spire, too. Looks fun.

squidyj · Apr 19, 2018

I think a lot of games in this 'genre' dont really have exceptional core gameplay which is why I like Dead Cells so much. It's so enjoyable to just play and kill stuff in that game.

ara · Apr 19, 2018

squidyj said:
I think a lot of games in this 'genre' dont really have exceptional core gameplay which is why I like Dead Cells so much. It's so enjoyable to just play and kill stuff in that game.

Been waiting for that game to come out of EA before buying it. There been any news on that front?

Adnor · Apr 19, 2018

Not going to join the conversation about what is and what isn't a roguelike because that hasn't been important for years now ~~with any game with any kind of procedural generation calling themselves roguelikes even when there's no real punishment for dying (koffkoffroguekofflegacykoff).~~

One of favorite roguelikes lately is Caves of Qud, from the creators of Sproggiwood, it's a post apocalyptic, sci-fi roguelike where you can play as a mutated human with special abilities, going from having extra arms, or legs, or horns, or being photosynthetic, or having the power to control fire with your mind. It has weekly updates, adding more and more content. It's actually really pretty for what it tries to do, has a good interface, mouse support if that's your thing.

But no post recommending CoQ is complete without quoting Something Awful's goon Angry Diplomat's description of the game:

Get killed by ANGRY MUTANT PLANTS. Get killed by ANGRY MUTANT ANIMALS. Get killed by ANGRY MUTANT BUGS. Kill a bear and EAT IT, just EAT AN ENTIRE BEAR. KILL EVERYTHING. Descend into the DEPTHS OF THE WORLD and retrieve ANCIENT TECHNOLOGICAL ARTIFACTS. KNIFE-FIGHT a GIANT DRILL ROBOT and WIN. Be a COOL WASTELAND KNIGHT. Be a TWO-FISTED COWBOY. Be a HOMICIDAL NINJA TURTLE with an AXE and a SHOTGUN. SPONTANEOUSLY BURST INTO FLAMES. Get into a GUNFIGHT with a HYENA-MONSTER and accidentally anger a HERD OF MAJESTIC HULKING DEMON HORSES with your crossfire. Fly into the air like a BEAUTIFUL EAGLE and then SWORD-FIGHT a GIANT DRAGONFLY. MIND CONTROL a TWO-HEADED BOAR and MAKE IT WEAR CHAIN MAIL and KILL YOUR ENEMIES. Encounter a LEGENDARY PLANT with an INTIMIDATING SKULL MASK and the ability to THROW FIERY DEATH FROM ITS HANDS. CONTRACT HORRIFYING DISEASES. Go to THE DEATHLANDS and discover that THE DEATHLANDS are called THE DEATHLANDS because they will KILL YOU DEAD. HACK OFF A ROBOT'S HEAD AND EAT IT. Get into a SLEDGEHAMMER DUEL with a 'ROIDED-OUT SUPERCANNIBAL. Be SO TECHNOLOGICALLY ILLITERATE that you BREAK A BOX OF CRAYONS attempting to figure out what it is. Be SO TECHNOLOGICALLY GIFTED that you can make an ACID GRENADE out of a PLASTIC TREE and a FOLDING CHAIR. Build your own FLAMETHROWER. Build your own LASER GUN. Build your own HANDHELD NUCLEAR BOMB and BLOW YOURSELF UP WITH IT. Collect MAGMA in a CANTEEN. Pour MAGMA into a pool of ACID to see what happens. DRINK MAGMA. TELEPATHICALLY LOCATE an enemy and HATE IT TO DEATH with your TERRIFYING BRAIN SORCERY. Have your LEGS CUT OFF and then REGROW YOUR LEGS and pick up your previous legs and EAT YOUR OWN LEGS. Encounter your EVIL TWIN and then summon six of your own GOOD TWINS to fight your evil twin's SIX EVIL TWIN TWINS in a FOURTEEN-WAY PSYCHIC LASER DEATH RAVE and then BURN TO DEATH when all of the combined PYROKINETIC MIND FIRE from all of the TIME CLONES causes the ENTIRE MAP TO COMBUST AND MELT.

Slick Butter · Apr 19, 2018

Here to recommend Unexplored! It's such an amazing little game. It's definitely a rogue-lite, being real time and having progression outside of each run, but it leans hard on its Rogue roots.
The levels generated in it are amazing, they spawn with shortcuts and cycles, even between floors! Some of the best procedurally generated anything out there. And there's so much stuff to find, including spells, rings, cloaks, and potions with all different kinds of effects.
Also it has some of the weightiest, satisfying 2D top-down combat I've played, and it's a very challenging game overall that can suck you in for a very long time.

1upsuper · Apr 19, 2018

ara said:
Great, thanks! Aside from Yodanji none of these are exactly new names to me, but I've only tried Don't Starve before so I'll be sure to take a look at the others. Pardon the stupid meme, but roguelites are perfect on the Switch. Good games to play when you're lying in bed, listening to podcasts.

As for "real" roguelikes, I'll have to get back to Caves of Qud soon. Bought it a while back and while it seemed like it could be fantastic, I never ended up really putting time in to learn it due to other big games getting in the way.

I'll have to take a look at Slay the Spire, too. Looks fun.

Caves of Qud is awesome. Cogmind is another great, fairly recent deep roguelike on Steam.

Slick Butter said:
Here to recommend Unexplored! It's such an amazing little game. It's definitely a rogue-lite, being real time and having progression outside of each run, but it leans hard on its Rogue roots.
The levels generated in it are amazing, they spawn with shortcuts and cycles, even between floors! Some of the best procedurally generated anything out there. And there's so much stuff to find, including spells, rings, cloaks, and potions with all different kinds of effects.
Also it has some of the weightiest, satisfying 2D top-down combat I've played, and it's a very challenging game overall that can suck you in for a very long time.

You just sold me on this.

squidyj · Apr 19, 2018

ara said:
Been waiting for that game to come out of EA before buying it. There been any news on that front?

It's getting closer but there's still at least another boss they're going to add that isnt in the update that they recently pushed to beta so it's definitely not imminent.

QisTopTier · Apr 19, 2018

Im a big fan of Risk of Rain

Slick Butter · Apr 19, 2018

ara said:
Pardon the stupid meme, but roguelites are perfect on the Switch.

I absolutely agree. Or handhelds in general. Honestly, though I like the exclusives I have (though Puyo Puyo Tetris and Bomberman both went multiplat RIGHT AFTER I GOT EACH ONE), my favorite Switch games are The Binding of Isaac and Don't Starve.
Would kill for an FTL port!

Also, Distrust is another fun one, kind of evokes both Don't Starve and Dungeon of the Endless to varying degrees and is inspired by The Thing. Been enjoying it a ton with online co-op. Not a great game, but I find it to be very enjoyable.

More_Badass · Apr 19, 2018

Slick Butter said:
Here to recommend Unexplored! It's such an amazing little game. It's definitely a rogue-lite, being real time and having progression outside of each run, but it leans hard on its Rogue roots.
The levels generated in it are amazing, they spawn with shortcuts and cycles, even between floors! Some of the best procedurally generated anything out there. And there's so much stuff to find, including spells, rings, cloaks, and potions with all different kinds of effects.
Also it has some of the weightiest, satisfying 2D top-down combat I've played, and it's a very challenging game overall that can suck you in for a very long time.

Unexplored is basically an evolved Brogue in real time, it's amazing

Also if you want to get into roguelikes, Brogue may seem intimidating at a glance due to its ASCII style, but it's actually one of the games to play as an introduction to roguelikes. It simplifies many of the design aspects and stats so it's more accessible to understand while also capturing the essence of the genre: complex interactions with the environment and enemies through spells and actions, interlocking systems that interact in emergent ways, and the player adapting to and manipulating those systems to progress. Its most defining feature is its dynamic elements; gas, fire, liquids, etc all flow and spread realistically and interact with each other

This article does a good job highlighting what makes Brogue so enjoyable
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/05/08/drinking-myself-to-permadeath-in-brogue/

Adnor · Apr 19, 2018

brogue is great, and if we want to get really technical, is closer to Rogue than most roguelikes, even the classics like NetHack or AngBand lol

brogue is also so goddamn pretty, just a great use of colors that make the ascii graphics really easy to read.

1upsuper · Apr 19, 2018

More_Badass said:
Unexplored is basically an evolved Brogue in real time, it's amazing

Also if you want to get into roguelikes, Brogue is a great introduction, accessible without being overwhelming, while still being complex and emergent and improvisational. Brogue may seem intimidating at a glance due to its ASCII style, but it's actually one of the games to play as an introduction to roguelikes. It simplifies many of the design aspects and stats so it's more accessible to understand while also capturing the essence of the genre: complex interactions with the environment and enemies through spells and actions, interlocking systems that interact in emergent ways, and the player adapting to and manipulating those systems to progress. Its most defining feature is its dynamic elements; gas, fire, liquids, etc all flow and spread realistically and interact with each other

This article does a good job highlighting what makes Brogue so enjoyable
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/05/08/drinking-myself-to-permadeath-in-brogue/

Yup. A good chunk of the brilliance of the "hardcore" ascii roguelikes comes from the seemingly endless amount of possible unique interactions and the depth of player options. I used to love the Chunsoft roguelikes until I played Nethack.

spineduke · Apr 19, 2018

I classify those as roguelites (just to differentiate them from the traditional roguelikes, as they may not feature every gameplay element in its strictest sense). It's my favorite type of game so the indie wave after Spelunky has been very kind to me.

Seeing that Unexplored has already been recommended,

Here are some other ones I can suggest:

Caves of Qud - A post-apocalyptic roguelike, probably the closest thing to a roguelike here.
Death Road to Canada - Charming zombie game thats part Oregon Trail, part action adventure
Darkest Dungeon - Pretty RPG, it's on sale right now.
Invisible Inc. - A pretty clever turn based stealth strategy game. Build variations go really far here
Into the Breach - Another great strat game, by the FTL dudes
Dead Cells - Castlevania style roguelite - basically a far superior version of what Rogue Legacy was trying to do.
WASTED - Fallout inspired first person shooter
Slay the Spire - A great Hearthstone style game, I really like how you have to build your deck from scratch every time you start a run.
Nuclear Throne - A Vlambeer arcade affair - tons of weapons and perks to work through, but no metagrind.
Synthetik - Similar to Nuclear Throne, but slower paced . You have do have a metagrind to unlock new classes and gear.
Steredenn - Arcade style shmup
Hand of Fate 2 - Card based affair mixed with some Arkham style combat - pretty fun. I haven't played the 2nd one yet, because it's a bit too expensive. 1st is also fun, but a bit on the janky side.

I'm also not a fan of grinding stuff through an overlying metagame - games which I try to avoid for the most part. Games like Into the Breach and Invisible Inc can let you change your starting setup, but its nowhere as much of a grind like what you find in Isaac or Enter the Gungeon. Dead Cells is probably the only recent game that I enjoyed that really broke this rule.

Visanideth · Apr 19, 2018

Dead Cells looks amazing and I'll snatch it as soon as it hits PS4 (I prefer to play real time games on console).

I actually really enjoed Rogue Legacy and so did my wife.

Anyways, I love the genre. I'm actually looking for something that follows one of these molds:

- classic "fail forward" roguelike, bit like Rogue Legacy (try, die, respawn a bit stronger and more knowledgeable, try again till you succeed). RPG-esque if possible.

- more strategically oriented roguelike, on the blueprint of Slay the Spire and Dream Quest - almost random everything, take what you're given and build a strategy to succeed. Basically the survivalist roguelike.

Platforms: PS4, PC, iOS.

Thanks in advance.

Darkstorne · Apr 19, 2018

ara said:
Guess this is as good a thread as any to ask: what other good or great roguelikes/lites are there on Switch in addition to Binding of Isaac?

Everspace is coming to Switch!

I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet. It's Roguelite I suppose, since death allows you to spend credits on upgrades to your spaceship, or buying an entirely new ship, but the quickest way to describe it would be first-person FTL. It's got the same FTL-like galaxy map that changes with each playthrough, and like FTL you're constantly pushing forwards to try and escape the big bad space fleet hot on your heels. Every location is procedurally generated, but stunningly beautiful in Unreal Engine 4.

melodiousmowl · Apr 19, 2018

spineduke said:
I classify those as roguelites (just to differentiate them from the traditional roguelikes, as they may not feature every gameplay element in its strictest sense). It's my favorite type of game so the indie wave after Spelunky has been very kind to me.

Seeing that Unexplored has already been recommended,

Here are some other ones I can suggest:

Caves of Qud - A post-apocalyptic roguelike, probably the closest thing to a roguelike here.
Death Road to Canada - Charming zombie game thats part Oregon Trail, part action adventure
Darkest Dungeon - Pretty RPG, it's on sale right now.
Invisible Inc. - A pretty clever turn based stealth strategy game. Build variations go really far here
Into the Breach - Another great strat game, by the FTL dudes
Dead Cells - Castlevania style roguelite - basically a far superior version of what Rogue Legacy was trying to do.
WASTED - Fallout inspired first person shooter
Slay the Spire - A great Hearthstone style game, I really like how you have to build your deck from scratch every time you start a run.
Nuclear Throne - A Vlambeer arcade affair - tons of weapons and perks to work through, but no metagrind.
Synthetik - Similar to Nuclear Throne, but slower paced . You have do have a metagrind to unlock new classes and gear.
Steredenn - Arcade style shmup
Hand of Fate 2 - Card based affair mixed with some Arkham style combat - pretty fun. I haven't played the 2nd one yet, because it's a bit too expensive. 1st is also fun, but a bit on the janky side.

I'm also not a fan of grinding stuff through an overlying metagame - games which I try to avoid for the most part. Games like Into the Breach and Invisible Inc can let you change your starting setup, but its nowhere as much of a grind like what you find in Isaac or Enter the Gungeon. Dead Cells is probably the only recent game that I enjoyed that really broke this rule.

Slick Butter said:
Here to recommend Unexplored! It's such an amazing little game. It's definitely a rogue-lite, being real time and having progression outside of each run, but it leans hard on its Rogue roots.
The levels generated in it are amazing, they spawn with shortcuts and cycles, even between floors! Some of the best procedurally generated anything out there. And there's so much stuff to find, including spells, rings, cloaks, and potions with all different kinds of effects.
Also it has some of the weightiest, satisfying 2D top-down combat I've played, and it's a very challenging game overall that can suck you in for a very long time.

Man, so many games I have not heard of or went off my radar!

Unicorn · Apr 19, 2018

I've finally got invested in Caves of Qud recently. Though, I turned on saves so it is no longer a rogue like. It seriously feels like a Fallout+Morrowind+Dwarf Fortress game.

When I watched the movie Annihilation it just made me think of Qud more and since then I've been putting in time.

Deleted member 11413 · Apr 19, 2018

You have a distinct lack of Japanese roguelikes in the OP. I would suggest Shiren the Wanderer: Tower of Fortune and the Dice of Fate or One Way Heroics

melodiousmowl · Apr 19, 2018

Slick Butter said:
Here to recommend Unexplored! It's such an amazing little game. It's definitely a rogue-lite, being real time and having progression outside of each run, but it leans hard on its Rogue roots.
The levels generated in it are amazing, they spawn with shortcuts and cycles, even between floors! Some of the best procedurally generated anything out there. And there's so much stuff to find, including spells, rings, cloaks, and potions with all different kinds of effects.
Also it has some of the weightiest, satisfying 2D top-down combat I've played, and it's a very challenging game overall that can suck you in for a very long time.

I have been watching vids on Unexplored, and it looks like the controls are kind of floaty. Is that at all the case? Only thing keeping me from pressing the buy button immediately.

Unicorn · Apr 19, 2018

melodiousmowl said:
I have been watching vids on Unexplored, and it looks like the controls are kind of floaty. Is that at all the case? Only thing keeping me from pressing the buy button immediately.

I mean, just a tad, but it's just momentum and even enemies are affected, so it works. Unexplored is really really good. Worth the price for the dungeon generator alone.

Deleted member 2620 · Apr 19, 2018

A great "roguelike" (in the OP sense) that I've been playing lately is Samurai Aces

but my favorite roguelikes are probably Shiren and Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup. Cogmind seems dope too.

Bio · Apr 19, 2018

If you like Roguelikes be sure to check out City of Brass when it drops early next month. Been messing with that the past few weeks and it is seriously good shit. Developed by Uppercut Games, which is headed by some of the key people behind Bioshock. Looks great, and has a real unique take on the genre.

melodiousmowl · Apr 19, 2018

Bio said:
If you like Roguelikes be sure to check out City of Brass when it drops early next month. Been messing with that the past few weeks and it is seriously good shit. Developed by Uppercut Games, which is headed by some of the key people behind Bioshock. Looks great, and has a real unique take on the genre.

Ohhh, reminds me of Ziggurat but updated

hydruxo · Apr 19, 2018

I love Enter The Gungeon. I mean, I'm pretty trash at it but I don't even mind because the massive variety of guns keeps it interesting enough that even if I don't get far it's still a blast to play.

capitalCORN · Apr 19, 2018

Lord of Ostia said:
You have a distinct lack of Japanese roguelikes in the OP. I would suggest Shiren the Wanderer: Tower of Fortune and the Dice of Fate or One Way Heroics

If you're so legit, where's Elona on you list?!

Deleted member 11413 · Apr 19, 2018

capitalCORN said:
If you're so legit, where's Elona on you list?!

Honestly I'd never heard of that game before, but I just looked it up and it looks pretty good!

Slick Butter · Apr 19, 2018

melodiousmowl said:
I have been watching vids on Unexplored, and it looks like the controls are kind of floaty. Is that at all the case? Only thing keeping me from pressing the buy button immediately.

Hard to say because people call a lot of different things floaty. Probably, it is a bit, but I'd call it more slippery because the game is kind of sandboxy and has physics, but things react as if they're maybe lighter than they should be.

piratepwnsninja · Apr 19, 2018

I highly recommend Dungeonmans. It does have meta-progression, so if that isn't something you like, stay away, but I really enjoy this one.

melodiousmowl · Apr 19, 2018

piratepwnsninja said:
I highly recommend Dungeonmans. It does have meta-progression, so if that isn't something you like, stay away, but I really enjoy this one.

Lul, I like that it has the same kind of irreverence as Dreadmor

ara · Apr 19, 2018

Tried Unexplored for a couple of runs. I like how it plays, but it kiiinda feels very simple and sort of vanilla. Does it open up a lot later on? Lots of user reviews mentioned it having a ton of depth and so on. I don't really know what to expect. Unless GOW and Y6 completely destroy me, I'll give it a few more runs this weekend.

There was one detail I loved, though. Named my first character Ara the First, and when I died and started a new run, it had automatically named my next character Ara the Second lol.

melodiousmowl · Apr 19, 2018

Also, there are some games coming out that are doing at least some kind of procedural:

Below

and, I don't know how the mode will end up, but

Bloodstaind, Ritual of the Night is supposed to have some kind of random mode.

Roguelike - Embrace the dnmRoa

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