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Shenmue I & II Remaster (8/21/2018; PC/PS4/XB1 - $29.99)
- Thread starter Y2Kev
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Frankly, I'll take the stencil real time shadows, higher res textures better geometry and better water from the Xbox version if the price to pay is some details I wouldnt have noticed.
One site I saw had that as the date, probably just placeholder, but I'm guessing it will be September/October. Hopefully Sega will tell us soon, as it seems they have a release date, they just don't want to say yet.
I don't think Sega should embark on something that ambitious without constant input from the original creators. That's not going to happen now as they're too busy making Shenmue 3.
Something like that would cost more than Shenmue 3. And Sega didn't even want to fund that.
Exactly.
It's a hard position for Sega and this is probably why they never re-released these games until now. How do they win? Remake the games and the purists will scream. Don't do enough and people will be disappointed. I think the "bare minimum" is enough, personally. I wanted the first two games available to the masses in order to make the third game more successful. It's also nice for me and others who no longer are able to play the first two games, but are very familiar with them.
It's a hard position for Sega and this is probably why they never re-released these games until now. How do they win? Remake the games and the purists will scream. Don't do enough and people will be disappointed. I think the "bare minimum" is enough, personally. I wanted the first two games available to the masses in order to make the third game more successful. It's also nice for me and others who no longer are able to play the first two games, but are very familiar with them.
Well I hope these games will sell well and be successful, the success of Shenmue 3 and continued support of the franchise partly hangs on the success of this remaster. We as fans need to show support and hope the rest will follow. Personally I feel like the gaming landscape has changed as such that titles as Shenmue can be moderately successful and turn a reasonable profit, so I am mostly optimistic for the future.
I don't know who out there is thinking "I can handle the graphics and gameplay of 20 year old Dreamcast games.....but 4:3 cut-scenes! It's too much!"
And I'm fine with the Xbox version of S2 if the insane bloom is toned down/removed - everything considered it's the more technically advanced version - and from what we've seen it has been.
And I'm fine with the Xbox version of S2 if the insane bloom is toned down/removed - everything considered it's the more technically advanced version - and from what we've seen it has been.
That was unreasonable.
Sega couldn't afford to do that for what is still a niche audience, especially for Shenmue 2. That game's world still feels huge and detailed, particularly the labyrinth Kowloon and a few skyscrapers. There's also a lot more voice acting/music/face animation to redo than those platform games from a generation earlier.
Your posts read very overly dramatic in a lot of the last few pages here. Even this one does too. Maybe that's just how you write, but please apply a little bit of self awareness and bump things down a notch. At least for the sake of discourse.
Hopefully you're aware that even the widescreen hacks available for these games have problems that likely can't be resolved without reanimating or redoing certain scenes. Don't confuse practicality for laziness. Now there's a developer chiming in on the issue over on the Dojo, it would be smart to sit down and listen, instead of sniping from a position of, and this isn't meant personally, ignorance.
Don't stick the fanboy strawman up because I'm trying to advocate an iota of understanding for developer's situation. It is beneath the otherwise positive tone this thread has had.
You're maybe understating the potential complexities of the licencing negotiation. Yu being able to use the Shenmue licence at all was nothing short of a minor miracle brought about thanks to his still solid reputation at SEGA, but it gets so much more complicated if they were also going to open the IP treasure chest to a dozen others. Companies are weird enough about their IP already, and YSnet aren't likely to invite anything that may negate or require renegotiation of the existing contract to licence the Shenmue IP. It just doesn't seem worth it for some capsule toys.
As for your other point about SEGA and Shenmue. Again, a few years ago people would have killed for that emulated prototype Shenmue Blitworks knocked up, and SEGA didn't even want to release that despite the proof of concept. SEGA's stance towards Shenmue has changed considerably since then, and it's important not to forget. The 4:3/16:9 thing is clearly not done with yet, but even if some scenes have to be locked to 4:3 it will just have to be accepted as a technical limitation that we're dealing with a 20 year old game that was not designed for that aspect ratio.
God, yes. I remember Shadow of the Colossus remake threads, Crash threads pre-release, and the same will likely happen for Spyro.
The grass truly isn't greener on the other side.
I think the best we can hope for is for it to be easy to mod so that modders can enhanced it down the road. Imagine something like the RE4 style mod but for Shenmue, it could end up looking a lot better than the base game.
Hoping for Sega to remake both games was unreasonable, this was expected. So let's hope they don't try to stop modding with DRM or something like that.
Hoping for Sega to remake both games was unreasonable, this was expected. So let's hope they don't try to stop modding with DRM or something like that.
It's horrible though. Really sad to hear they used that version
Textures in the wrong places are more of an issue than the shitty bloom and removed glass.
i'm so excited. we all wish this would get the bluepoint level update but, i'll take anything. hopefully it'll be better than the launch Z.O.E. ps3 set.
I'm curious, is there any video or anything you can point to that shows these downgrades?
glad to see this thread still goin
bless the shenmue fanbase for being rabid for over almost 2 decades now.
bless the shenmue fanbase for being rabid for over almost 2 decades now.
The texture differences are negligible as someone who's familiar with both versions, and I've always preferred the Dreamcast version, mainly for the Japanese VO. But if you're playing Shenmue II for the first time, or for the first time in 16 years, the "incorrect" textures will be completely imperceivable. No one's going to know or care that a little door sign is missing, or the bottom of an air conditioner is different (yes, people care about this). But higher poly counts, better shadows and better water...they actually make a difference.
"Downgrade" is already blowing the changes out of proportion. Watch the DF Retro video.
There's a couple music tracks that are different on the Xbox version also. This cutscene track is from the Dreamcast version: https://youtu.be/TZ3_sDCNQVA
And this is from the Xbox: https://youtu.be/S9O0CABtgpo
I hope they can use the Dreamcast version here, it sounds nicer with the piano and it's one of my favorite tracks and cutscenes in the game.
Also this track for this cutscene is used only on the Dreamcast version: https://youtu.be/M2anKVy__tM Xbox uses this: https://youtu.be/WoywTlu5Dhw
Not a biggie but again I prefer the Dreamcast version here. As far as I'm aware those are the only soundtrack differences.
And this is from the Xbox: https://youtu.be/S9O0CABtgpo
I hope they can use the Dreamcast version here, it sounds nicer with the piano and it's one of my favorite tracks and cutscenes in the game.
Also this track for this cutscene is used only on the Dreamcast version: https://youtu.be/M2anKVy__tM Xbox uses this: https://youtu.be/WoywTlu5Dhw
Not a biggie but again I prefer the Dreamcast version here. As far as I'm aware those are the only soundtrack differences.
The hyperbole is this thread is simply sad. I understand wanting the best for the series you love but come one:
- It's actually being re-released for the first time in over 15 years,
- All signs point to a decent remaster,
- With dual audio,
- Updated controls,
- Very likely a stable framerate and reduced loadtimes,
- 16/9 when possible and redrawn UI.
And here we have some people saying it's the laziest port ever after seeing less than a dozen screenshots and a press release.
Have some decency...
- It's actually being re-released for the first time in over 15 years,
- All signs point to a decent remaster,
- With dual audio,
- Updated controls,
- Very likely a stable framerate and reduced loadtimes,
- 16/9 when possible and redrawn UI.
And here we have some people saying it's the laziest port ever after seeing less than a dozen screenshots and a press release.
Have some decency...
I think nobody thought this was the case. The risk is too high for something that could be easily a AAA remake if that was the case.
This. It's just sad. I think the port as it is is good enough. I just hope they remove the awful daylight bloom of the xbox version version though. I also prefer the water of the Dreamcast version but I can live without it!
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Shenmue is one of my favorite games of all-time and I'm so glad it's finally being re-released. It would be awesome if it was released in the summer, also would help a lot being away from the heavy-hitters that come out in the fall.
This particular track is not recorded from the Dreamcast version. It's a remastered track made by a Shenmue modder who goes by the name LanDC. I made a request to LanDC to remaster it because I didn't like the quality of music coming from the Dreamcast or Xbox.
Here are examples of music that has changed going from Dreamcast to the Xbox.
Shenmue II Music: Saving Shenhua (Dreamcast Version)
https://youtu.be/1wBmeyFmClw
Shenmue II Music: Saving Shenhua (Xbox version)
https://youtu.be/8S8MlPSTA3U
I really hope the Dreamcast tracks are used for these remasters or even higher fidelity versions of these tracks.
Huh, that is interesting. Well LanDC did a good job then, it sounds much better.
If you want to see how much of a non-issue the Xbox texture changes are: http://shenmuedojo.net/new/extras/s2xboxvsdreamcast.html
They also fixed some things in the Xbox version like the OutRun cabinet. Having the better lighting/water is much more important than a handful of missing overhead signs and window textures, if you ask me.
They also fixed some things in the Xbox version like the OutRun cabinet. Having the better lighting/water is much more important than a handful of missing overhead signs and window textures, if you ask me.
...I could never EVER have noticed these differences on my own even if I played both versions. How are people complaining about this?
What, there are like 5 signs missing in the whole city, a texture is rotated wrong, and there are like 10 textures that are different? Like...what? Most of those aren't even "downgrade", they are simply differences, it's different, not better, not worse, and the few actual "downgrades" are completely overshadowed by the HUGE upgrades.
And regarding the bloom and blur... come on, bloom and blur was the shiny new thing that everybody loved back in the original Xbox days. It's 2018. They know the blur looks horrible, they know many people dislike the bloom. Of course there'll be a toggle, for god's sake.
What, there are like 5 signs missing in the whole city, a texture is rotated wrong, and there are like 10 textures that are different? Like...what? Most of those aren't even "downgrade", they are simply differences, it's different, not better, not worse, and the few actual "downgrades" are completely overshadowed by the HUGE upgrades.
And regarding the bloom and blur... come on, bloom and blur was the shiny new thing that everybody loved back in the original Xbox days. It's 2018. They know the blur looks horrible, they know many people dislike the bloom. Of course there'll be a toggle, for god's sake.
I imagine the M2 ports of the arcade games will be used, just like in the more recent Yakuza titles. That would mean that Hang-On might be replaced with Super Hang-On, but I do not personally mind that.
I am not sure if AfterBurner II will be in this game. The Tomcat license seems finnicky to work with, but would they end up replacing it or just have nothing there instead? I would be totally fine with Power Drift replacing it, for example.
I am not sure if AfterBurner II will be in this game. The Tomcat license seems finnicky to work with, but would they end up replacing it or just have nothing there instead? I would be totally fine with Power Drift replacing it, for example.
This is a good post.
Personally, I'm really excited to play these for the first time in over a decade, especially now with original VAs!
Is this already been posted? A developer of d3t has posted this on Shenmue Dojo:
So what about that Spaghetti, you still think I'm "obtuse" regarding the 4:3 parts of the trailer?
And sad to see the Xbox version of S2, that is clearly inferior :/
So what about that Spaghetti, you still think I'm "obtuse" regarding the 4:3 parts of the trailer?
And sad to see the Xbox version of S2, that is clearly inferior :/
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Yea i have the pal dreamcast and xbox version. The dreamcast chugs heavily when you get to kowloon. The xbox version is much better.
Edit: iv just looked at those comparison pics and its more up for debate than i realised. Maybe the dreamcast would be better port if they can inprove performance.
Personally, I still think that it is too early to be making a judgement in the 4:3 issue. We haven't heard a official statement from Sega or D3T for starters. Even the language used from Allan implies that things could/might change:
"For technical reasons some parts of the game are currently limited to 4:3."
We also know that there might be graphical updates here and there which could also "fix up" the xbox issues. This is even without mentioning the fact that there will be dual language support, an additional modern control scheme and a new updated UI.
We have waited for Sega to acknowledge us and this series for such a long time and after more than a decade they finally have. They are creating a version that will allow us to play on current systems with some added bells and whistles, at an insane price and people are still crying...
I understand that it might not be the perfect image of what some people imagined but damn, we should be excited and thankful as this majorly increases our chances of seeing more/another game after 3 and ultimately that is what we all want, to see how the story (that we have waited for 17 years so far) ends.
All I'm saying is please wait for Sega or D3T to officially announce something before we all start going ape.
You keep referring to this as a non-issue but for a game like Shenmue which prided itself on offering an unparalleled amount of detail and where the sheer depth of detail is the defining feature of both games after all of this time... surely you can see how altering the level of said detail would be annoying to some?
I get it, it doesn't bother you. Good for you!
But it does bother others. Their opinions aren't suddenly invalid because you don't happen to agree, get over yourself man.
It's 'indecent' to want the best for your favourite games of all time?
You tried to denounce hyperbole and fell right into it yourself haha
Am I being naive for expecting the final version to have 16:9 format without zoom?
The 4:3 parts are the cutscenes and we saw why they are 4:3 because characters out of the field stops moving.
As for Xbox version, not it's not "clearly inferior". Sure, there are some misplaced textures... and some others that were corrected:
http://shenmuedojo.net/new/extras/s2xboxvsdreamcast.html
Then again, that's for the environnement differences... on top of that, Xbox version has higher polycount Ryo, better textures here and there, better waters AND environnemental shadows.
Probably yeah as it doesn't seem to be technically feasible which I can both understand and be disappointed about (shock! horror!)
At least they are being presented in their original ratio and aren't cropped and stretched (a la Shenmue The Movie) in an awkward attempt to match the gameplay footage.
Let me get this straight. The Xbox version has:
- heavily reduced texture shimmering
- the occasional higher-res texture, increased poly model
- a much better framerate - some areas by ~10 frames
- less aggressive character pop-in
- load times that can be 10+ seconds faster
- much better water effects
- environmental shadows (completely missing from the DC version)
People got so caught up in the 16:9/4:3 controversy that an even bigger issue goes unnoticed...
Due to not understanding or simply ignoring how overscan worked for CRT displays, d3t is making an error in their Shenmue HD project. The in-game graphics are stretched horizontally by about 10%. The error was made because the original games have black borders on the left and right. It's an integral part of their 4:3 presentation and was done to ensure that various overscan settings in CRT TVs wouldn't cut out important parts of the frame. Sadly, d3t erroneously stretched the in-game graphics to where the black bars used to be. The result is appalling - everything is stretched horizontally in an ugly way. I'm attaching .gif files which illustrate the error.
Due to not understanding or simply ignoring how overscan worked for CRT displays, d3t is making an error in their Shenmue HD project. The in-game graphics are stretched horizontally by about 10%. The error was made because the original games have black borders on the left and right. It's an integral part of their 4:3 presentation and was done to ensure that various overscan settings in CRT TVs wouldn't cut out important parts of the frame. Sadly, d3t erroneously stretched the in-game graphics to where the black bars used to be. The result is appalling - everything is stretched horizontally in an ugly way. I'm attaching .gif files which illustrate the error.
People got so caught up in the 16:9/4:3 controversy that an even bigger issue goes unnoticed...
Due to not understanding or simply ignoring how overscan worked for CRT displays, d3t is making an error in their Shenmue HD project. The in-game graphics are stretched horizontally by about 10%. The error was made because the original games have black borders on the left and right. It's an integral part of their 4:3 presentation and was done to ensure that various overscan settings in CRT TVs wouldn't cut out important parts of the frame. Sadly, d3t erroneously stretched the in-game graphics to where the black bars used to be. The result is appalling - everything is stretched horizontally in an ugly way. I'm attaching .gif files which illustrate the error.
The horror, cancel this mess before it's too late.
I know why Shenmue appeals to people, thanks, and I totally get it if you prefer the texture work in the Dreamcast version. I do too. But to blow the texture changes out of proportion by saying they're porting a "clearly inferior" version is a massive exaggeration. I'm sorry, but it is. Anyone who hasn't been beating the DC > Xbox drum for the past 15 years will. not. care.
Not sure if it was mentioned, but DATA DISCS have announced they're repressing the soundtrack for Shenmue.
I've been after it for a while, but the first run copies reach about £70 second hand and new ones I've seen for over a £100.
I'll be keeping an eagle eye on their Twitter.
Tracks are:
A1. Shenmue - Sedge Tree (Original Version)
A2. Shenhua - Sedge Flower (Original Version)
A3. Encounter with Destiny
A4. Christmas on Dobuita Street
A5. The Sadness I Carry on My Shoulders
A6. Cherry Blossom Wind Dance
A7. Daily Agony
------------------------------------------------
B1. Tears of Separation
B2. Dawn
B3. Snowy Scenery
B4. Separated from Yokosuka
B5. Departure for Hope
B6. The Place Where the Sun Sets (Version 2)
The Xbox version is vastly interior and they are making a big mistake directly porting that version. The only reason for that is the fact that Xbox games are basically PC games running on DirectX 8.1, so it's just easier and quicker to port that one.
The improved framerate is a not an argument in this case since the remaster must be at solid 30 FPS anyway or else it will be a joke in this day and age. The remaster must improve upon performance and image quality per se. That's not dependent on the Xbox version.
Heavily reduced texture shimmering? See above.
Less aggressive pop-up? Again, see above.
Load times? For the third time, see above.
Occasionally better textures? Occasionally is the key-word here. In many cases, they are worse or missing.
Much better water effects? Add them to the DC version. That's what remasters are for. Otherwise, it's an HD up-render which shouldn't cost more than $5.
Environmental shadows are missing from the DC version, but they honestly don't add anything important to the game's presentation because they were added as an afterthought on the Xbox, so they weren't intended as a part of the art direction initially. In fact, I dislike how they cancel out characters' shadows.
The bloom in the Xbox version is horrendous. The worst I've ever seen. It goes against the game's art direction and makes the sharp and gritty Hong Kong from the DC version look like somebody's drug-induced dream. Please, Lord, make them remove this dumpster fire bloom.
Last but not least, the blur effect during battles which was added to the Xbox version. That is the worst offender, making all the battles seem like they're running on QuickTime player from 1999 with awful artifacts.
TL;DR - the DC version is the better foundation for an HD remaster, so they should use that version and add the good bits from the Xbox version instead of going the lazy way and basing the project on a version with tons of texture errors and awful effects.
The improved framerate is a not an argument in this case since the remaster must be at solid 30 FPS anyway or else it will be a joke in this day and age. The remaster must improve upon performance and image quality per se. That's not dependent on the Xbox version.
Heavily reduced texture shimmering? See above.
Less aggressive pop-up? Again, see above.
Load times? For the third time, see above.
Occasionally better textures? Occasionally is the key-word here. In many cases, they are worse or missing.
Much better water effects? Add them to the DC version. That's what remasters are for. Otherwise, it's an HD up-render which shouldn't cost more than $5.
Environmental shadows are missing from the DC version, but they honestly don't add anything important to the game's presentation because they were added as an afterthought on the Xbox, so they weren't intended as a part of the art direction initially. In fact, I dislike how they cancel out characters' shadows.
The bloom in the Xbox version is horrendous. The worst I've ever seen. It goes against the game's art direction and makes the sharp and gritty Hong Kong from the DC version look like somebody's drug-induced dream. Please, Lord, make them remove this dumpster fire bloom.
Last but not least, the blur effect during battles which was added to the Xbox version. That is the worst offender, making all the battles seem like they're running on QuickTime player from 1999 with awful artifacts.
TL;DR - the DC version is the better foundation for an HD remaster, so they should use that version and add the good bits from the Xbox version instead of going the lazy way and basing the project on a version with tons of texture errors and awful effects.
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