Oct 25, 2017
4,341
Toronto, Canada
Let's not give him any credit, the only reason he is doing this is because A. The state of CA is suing. B. Investors are mad this pending lawsuit wasn't disclosed C. Investors were already mad at how much money he is making.
If there's a good thing to come out of this situation, is that now they are under a microscope in the eyes of the public. If they don't improve, we can see that both investors, employees and I guess even consumers will retaliate until they are satisfied.

It shouldn't have even got to where it did, but the same can't be said for the countless other companies in the industry that have yet to be exposed, and are sure to be exposed in the future. My hope is that they are all watching, and shaking in their boots.
 
Jan 11, 2018
9,673
Whoa. Umm thats a good response. It sounds like firings are indeed on the table. Bobby Kottick as much of a dickhead as he is doesn't seem to be playing around. Hiring a law firm to investigate is much better than doing an internal investigation.

He should step down, just like Yves should.
This all happened under his watch and he allowed it to happen. He's only taking these steps to save his own neck.
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,628
If there's a good thing to come out of this situation, is that now they are under a microscope in the eyes of the public. If they don't improve, we can see that both investors, employees and I guess even consumers will retaliate until they are satisfied.

It shouldn't have even got to where it did, but the same can't be said for the countless other companies in the industry that have yet to be exposed, and are sure to be exposed in the future. My hope is that they are all watching, and shaking in their boots.
There's evidence that Ubisoft hasn't improved it's work culture in the last year since it's allegations.

Until there's firings at all levels, nothing will improve.
 

kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,496
"Tone deaf" seems like a very soft way to put it.

Something is tone deaf if it's substantively correct but presented in a poor tone.
Obviously Kotick believes that there really is a problem or he wouldn't be talking about reviewing managers regarding this. If that's the case it seems like the initial letter which said that the government was wrong and that Blizzard was basically fine wasn't just tone deaf, but it was flat out wrong.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,341
Toronto, Canada
There's evidence that Ubisoft hasn't improved it's work culture in the last year since it's allegations.

Until there's firings at all levels, nothing will improve.
Obviously not to discredit how shitty things are at Ubisoft, Insomniac, ND, Riot, etc but this one was really bad, to the point that someone commited suicide. I definitely agree that change needs to happen from the top, and I'd love to see Kotick resign and give his seat to someone more worthy, but all we can really do for now after this statement is again, keep them under the microscope just like how they are now. They only seem to care when it hurts the bottom line, and we are seeing the bottom line get hurt right now thanks to the employee's actions.
 

Veezy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
284
There's evidence that Ubisoft hasn't improved it's work culture in the last year since it's allegations.

Until there's firings at all levels, nothing will improve.
Indeed.

I said this somewhere else online, but there needs to be three things that occur in order to try to fix this issue:

1. A complete termination of the executive team with no severance. There are only two options with the executives. They either genuinely did not know, which makes them beyond incompetent, or they didn't care, which makes them unethical with the responsibility their position entails.

2. Complete and absolute scorched earth on the entire HR staff. I work in HR. I know how it works in most companies, especially large ones. They make the public proclamation that they are there to defend the employees and privately their number one concern is protecting the company from any liability. If this investigation has shown anything, they have failed absolutely at both tasks. I don't need to go beyond the cube crawls. An HR team that lets employees drink during work hours, inside the building, is allowing a level of liability that I cannot wrap my brain around. They completely and totally failed at their job and should be punished as such.

3. Every single member of leadership, regardless of tenure and team size, needs to be investigated by a 3rd party organization with coordination with local/state/federal law enforcement. Depending on results, termination and legal punishment needs to occur.

If there is not a complete clean up top to bottom and only a few token terminations, nothing will change.
 

unfashionable

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,072
if someone kills themselves due to duress in an environment that is beyond those considered remotely acceptable its manslaughter

thats how I see it
 
Oct 27, 2017
20,799
Am i wrong (and feel free to tell me I am, I do not mean to offend) to want COD 2021 to get delayed? I feel like delaying and/or impact Activisions biggest blockbuster is the best possible example to set for other companies to have. They won't change unless their bottom lines are affected sadly, so it's hard to not want activision to be made an example out of and derailing plans for a billion dollar installment seems like a good way to do that.

im not saying punish the devs working on it (punish the ones who have participated in this sexist, bs behavior) but just slow down development on it enough to force it to ship sometime next year instead, upsetting investors and activisions bottom line

maybe this is too far or unrealistic idk.
 

Auros01

Avenger
Nov 17, 2017
5,531
If kotic is allowed to put this inane plan in action, its like the phillip morris news saying they want to unsmoke the world, ban cigarretes in 10 years, etc.

You cant foster this enviroment for decades and then say you were ignorant about it and here are 5 bullets to make it all better.

The past matter here. The hundreds or thousands impacted by this culture cant have been for nothing. The leadership have to all be ousted.

I guess for the gamer's part, what we can do is fuck with their money. Dont play or pay anything related to them until this is resolved. It takes shareholders to instigate action, and they only see their own pockets.
This is exactly how I felt after reading Kotick's letter.

The buck stops with the CEO. If you allowed this environment to fester for 10+ years, you share in the responsibility and, thus, no longer have any credibility. Take your golden parachute and get out.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,256
Whoa. Umm thats a good response. It sounds like firings are indeed on the table. Bobby Kottick as much of a dickhead as he is doesn't seem to be playing around. Hiring a law firm to investigate is much better than doing an internal investigation.

Maybe if they didn't hire a firm that's a notorious union-buster firm.

I pretty much guarantee that this supposed investigation is basically a smokescreen for them putting union-busters on the payroll.
 

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
10,055
Regarding pay, how are things in the US? Do people openly speak about how much they are making, they have saved, that sort of stuff?
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,390
Regarding pay, how are things in the US? Do people openly speak about how much they are making, they have saved, that sort of stuff?

No. They are allowed to share but management usually frowns on it (while making you feel like you should keep your mouth shut because you're one of the lucky ones).
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,341
Toronto, Canada
Jon Spector, VP of the Overwatch League in support of the walkout:




This after his last statements, which had already been posted here:




He's also been retweeting the news as they develop on his Twitter. He was a director in the League for a while, but he became VP in 2020. The league has been vastly improved in the time that he was appointed to that position and it makes me happy to see him support the employees at the offices.
 
Oct 26, 2017
516
Yes Bobby, you are "sooo" worried about the victims and workers. You CEO's types, with anual multi-million dollars bonus, always are, right?
JFC at these PR canned "apologies", these "we are listening" bs.

And, what are the chances all the fired creeps are back as "consultants", ala Ubisoft?
 

Tbm24

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,691
Regarding pay, how are things in the US? Do people openly speak about how much they are making, they have saved, that sort of stuff?
Generally speaking in the US I've always found people are very weird with discussing their pay openly. To the point I've made many people uncomfortable because I do if the context of the conversation calls for it, in my opinion.
 

ket

Member
Jul 27, 2018
13,133
Ex-Bioware worker claims the company betrayed her, also says that the experience was traumatic:

 

SunBroDave

"This guy are sick"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,335
Ex-Bioware worker claims the company betrayed her, also says that the experience was traumatic:


I believe she was the lead writer on Rift Apart. Given the recent discussions about Insomniac, I wonder if that was one of the companies that she left due to the "deep and ingrained sexism"
 

Deleted member 17184

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,240
Oct 25, 2017
4,341
Toronto, Canada
Soe, a well known figure in the OW Esports scene as one of the Hosts for the OWL has shared the following:




It's sad, but this is also due to her being in the US with a work visa as part of her contract.




Someone like her should not be afraid of losing their job, or even the place that they currently live in. I'm sure there are many women just like her that feel they can't come out and support the cause because of the same thing.
 

JustinBailey

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,596
Ex-Bioware worker claims the company betrayed her, also says that the experience was traumatic:


Yeah. Among the most important things that should be a focus of this discussion - and this applies outside the gaming industry as well - is the fact that there are willing participants in HR, executives, positions of power who will literally destroy people and make things up to do it. I've seen it myself in finance, healthcare, etc. All the way up to CFOs. People literally fabricating performance reviews to get people out. And what does this mean? It means the employers have too much power. It means every single fucking employee of anything larger than a mom and pop should unionize. And it means United States labor laws all need to be rewritten.

So on top of everything that is gender related here, there's also the matter of employee / employer power.
 

ElNino

Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,756
Regarding pay, how are things in the US? Do people openly speak about how much they are making, they have saved, that sort of stuff?
I'm not in game dev (FinTech), but we are not "allowed" to discuss our compensation directly with anyone but direct management. Not to say it doesn't happen from time to time, but in 15+ years I can count on one hand the number of people I have discussed with or heard discussing compensation.

Unforuntately most people do not like having those conversations, even with friends. Capitalism makes us selfish people
This is true for me (minus the capitalism part). The only person I discuss my compensation with is my spouse. Not because I am selfish, but because those details are private and nothing beneficial could come from discussing it.

That said, several of my wife's family members are public sector (teachers and fire fighters) so their pay has been disclosed already.
 

seroun

Banned
Oct 25, 2018
4,519
Ex-Bioware worker claims the company betrayed her, also says that the experience was traumatic:



I believe she was the lead writer on Rift Apart. Given the recent discussions about Insomniac, I wonder if that was one of the companies that she left due to the "deep and ingrained sexism"

Bioware was founded much similar to Blizzard: a boys club. And I'm sure that while EA has improved over the years (it seems to be true what they say about diversity) I think that when a place is a boys club, it's a boys club.

I hope all of this fucking shit makes everyone that has hurt the victims look at themselves in the mirror and ask themselves if they are gonna accept that, in some ways, they were responsible. And if she has then worked in Insomniac I imagine there was some stuff happening there too.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,753


Ubisoft workers have started a petition too - hopefully this spreads to more and more studios, AAA and indie, as has been said by so many devs this is not just a few studios, this happening to some degree in all of the industry.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,390
I'm not in game dev (FinTech), but we are not "allowed" to discuss our compensation directly with anyone but direct management. Not to say it doesn't happen from time to time, but in 15+ years I can count on one hand the number of people I have discussed with or heard discussing compensation.


This is true for me (minus the capitalism part). The only person I discuss my compensation with is my spouse. Not because I am selfish, but because those details are private and nothing beneficial could come from discussing it.

That said, several of my wife's family members are public sector (teachers and fire fighters) so their pay has been disclosed already.

I don't think this is true. This is the narrative we've been lead to believe because it behooves companies to keep this stuff secret, but having all compensation be out in the open would greatly help those who are underpaid, and put more pressure on those who are overpaid. It is really only beneficial if you are earning more than what people would consider you're worth.
 

FLEABttn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,011
I think there can be some level of redemption for folks if they work to correct wrongs they've done. But I also wouldn't take it at face value until they can demonstrate having done that.
 

ElNino

Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,756
I don't think this is true. This is the narrative we've been lead to believe because it behooves companies to keep this stuff secret, but having all compensation be out in the open would greatly help those who are underpaid, and put more pressure on those who are overpaid. It is really only beneficial if you are earning more than what people would consider you're worth.
At my employer there isn't much room to be under or over paid since any non-director level positions fall into a relatively small salary range of roughly $20,000. On top of that, the only part of compensation that is even remotely discressionary is our bonus which can only max out to 10-12%. So even if you feel you are underpaid (which I do), there is really nothing you can do but leave since there is almost no wiggle room to adjust your comp anyways.

For reference, when I did previously discuss my salary concerns with management and they agreed that I could use a bump and increased my comp by a small amount (less than 5%) which then prevented me from gaining a year-over-year increase the following year. So the net result over two years was zero since the HR payroll system simply balanced out my increase one year with the following one.

When discussing with family and friends, unless they were looking for work at my company or field (none are) then I see no benefit of discussing what we make.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,390
At my employer there isn't much room to be under or over paid since any non-director level positions fall into a relatively small salary range of roughly $20,000. On top of that, the only part of compensation that is even remotely discressionary is our bonus which can only max out to 10-12%. So even if you feel you are underpaid (which I do), there is really nothing you can do but leave since there is almost no wiggle room to adjust your comp anyways.

For reference, when I did previously discuss my salary concerns with management and they agreed that I could use a bump and increased my comp by a small amount (less than 5%) which then prevented me from gaining a year-over-year increase the following year. So the net result over two years was zero since the HR payroll system simply balanced out my increase one year with the following one.

When discussing with family and friends, unless they were looking for work at my company or field (none are) then I see no benefit of discussing what we make.
Oh, you're talking about telling your friends and neighbors. Yeah, I don't necessarily see a direct benefit in revealing that, I was more talking about within the company itself, salary transparency within a company can help a lot even if it's to motivate you to find another job. :)
 

ElNino

Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,756
Oh, you're talking about telling your friends and neighbors. Yeah, I don't necessarily see a direct benefit in revealing that, I was more talking about within the company itself, salary transparency within a company can help a lot even if it's to motivate you to find another job. :)
Oh sure, I personally wouldn't have a problem discussing salary with colleagues except that I know it wouldn't lead anywhere productive here. Moving to another job is really the only option if pay is your primary concern. For myself, while I certainly feel I am underpaid, my work/life balance is at least positive and my spouse has a very demanding job so I'm willing to sacrifice some pay if it allows us to better handle our home situations.
 

Tyrant Rave

Has A Pretty Cool Jacket
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,696
Part of me thinks that Kotaku piece deserves its own thread. I couldn't even make it through the whole thing— it's disgusting.