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[GamingBolt] Graphics Analysis - God of War: Arguably The Best Looking Game of All Time
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You sir have good taste. I was about edi in Ori and The Blind Forest.
Trine, though beautiful, looks too busy at times.
And in what way? And why does the way that it is spending its budget (in this case I'm assuming raw poly count striving for photorealism) trump everything else that another model might excel at.
I don't care if they are digital doubles, some FIFA and Pro evolution models also look like "digital doubles" of the real life athletes, it doesn't make them as impressive and detailed as GoW's models.
It's not a good argument.
About my opinion: I think that this game at its best is probably the best looking thing out there, but the visuals aren't consistent and there are many areas that looks bad or bland, maybe because the scale is so huge it was too expensive to give each area the same treatment, I don't know, but the visuals while incredible can also be very inconsistent.
You say you are against check list but this right here is a checklist and falls under "antialiasing and post process" category. You are basically proving my point.
Uhm, it won't be GI without atleast 1 bounce pass. Second of all, ALL games have static global illumination.
global illumination = direct lighting + indirect lighting.
Global Illumination (GI) is a system that models how light is bounced off of surfaces onto other surfaces (indirect light) rather than being limited to just the light that hits a surface directly from a light source (direct light).
This is ps3 era tech that you are using to claim that this is the "best looking game of all time"?
Battlefield 3
One of the actual best looking game of all time with the best implementation of static global illumination is AC Unity
This is pretty much standard in alot of games today, Horizon, ROTR, QB, AC Unity, The division.. I could go on and on.
This is another one of DF hyperbole with the "realistic, high quality, amazing, high level" speech that is just full of surface detail and doesn't actually break down whats being done.
But again, the only dynamic light in that game that i can concretely say without a shadow of doubt is dynamic is the light that the main character shines.
But again, ALL games use dynamic lighting and most games also have shadow casting enabled on most of those light. GTA V, The division, QB, for example. Again if i were to provide a full list to your statements, there would be 20+ games for each response.
The actual amount of particles are limited. Game like QB is pushing alot more in particles than GOW.
Not true again, almost every game does this. This is an old technique all the way back from Batman Arkam Origins, The division has it, ROTR has it, Horizon, Steep has it.
Alot of games where snow is prominent uses tessellation / displacement heightmap based snow deformation.
What exact environment or scene are you talking about here?
Actually alot of games have alot more objects on the MC running with physics than GOW. The deformation is nothing but a normal map and other games do that too.
You still haven't shown anything that GOW does as good or better than other games.
This is without me bring up some of the short comings of GOW for example the hair lacking frizzness, fresnel, anisotropic reflection and sss.
Yeah a quick look at steam backs that up
http://store.steampowered.com/sale/2017_top_played/
You say you are against check list but this right here is a checklist and falls under "antialiasing and post process" category. You are basically proving my point.
Uhm, it won't be GI without atleast 1 bounce pass. Second of all, ALL games have static global illumination.
global illumination = direct lighting + indirect lighting.
Global Illumination (GI) is a system that models how light is bounced off of surfaces onto other surfaces (indirect light) rather than being limited to just the light that hits a surface directly from a light source (direct light).
This is ps3 era tech that you are using to claim that this is the "best looking game of all time"?
Battlefield 3
One of the actual best looking game of all time with the best implementation of static global illumination is AC Unity
This is pretty much standard in alot of games today, Horizon, ROTR, QB, AC Unity, The division.. I could go on and on.
This is another one of DF hyperbole with the "realistic, high quality, amazing, high level" speech that is just full of surface detail and doesn't actually break down whats being done.
But again, the only dynamic light in that game that i can concretely say without a shadow of doubt is dynamic is the light that the main character shines.
But again, ALL games use dynamic lighting and most games also have shadow casting enabled on most of those light. GTA V, The division, QB, for example. Again if i were to provide a full list to your statements, there would be 20+ games for each response.
The actual amount of particles are limited. Game like QB is pushing alot more in particles than GOW.
Not true again, almost every game does this. This is an old technique all the way back from Batman Arkam Origins, The division has it, ROTR has it, Horizon, Steep has it.
Alot of games where snow is prominent uses tessellation / displacement heightmap based snow deformation.
What exact environment or scene are you talking about here?
Actually alot of games have alot more objects on the MC running with physics than GOW. The deformation is nothing but a normal map and other games do that too.
You still haven't shown anything that GOW does as good or better than other games.
This is without me bring up some of the short comings of GOW for example the hair lacking frizzness, fresnel, anisotropic reflection and sss.
I never said I was against checklists being used, I said using checklists to determine 'the best looking games' is farcical because it is. The Poster I was responding to asked me what GOW does that either most other games don't do, or don't do as well. As noted by many, God of War has very good motion blur and temporal AA.
You're absolutely right about GI being used in most games because I had a brain fart, but aside from that you're straight up delusional. The 'gotcha's you think you have even if true don't undermine the rest of the post, and you are misconstruing what the OP was asking. I wasn't replying to you.
Again it's especially telling that you refer to GI as 'PS3 tech' as the basis of questioning what's impressive, which just highlights that you don't understand the issue. You're basically obsessed with tech and a drive to photo-realism. Even in this rebuttal post you have so many questionable statements like when you rebuff the GPU particles with one game instead of engaging with the topic honestly.
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God of War and a lot of games in general, shame because with the devs even admitted with better hardware they would've pushed it even further, (starting with real strands of hair and even more complex lighting for instance), they also used an incredibly high quality performance capture method and to reiterate, expensive as hell lighting, resulting in incredibly lifelike characters:
See above.
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It's too obvious really, he changes his tune to fit his narrative, and quite ironic too calling out DF's tech analysis as hyperbole but on the other hand saying what GOW does tech wise is mediocre. Simply unfair
to those guys in Santa Monica who worked their butts off to make this good looking game (budget and time wise as possible) and being called out mediocre by a fanboy to fit his agenda.
Also note that he ignores things like the Voxel grid lighting and then says 'you can't name one thing!', or says 'so many games have more physics on their characters attire than God of War!', it's like.
It's clear even clear with his own videos in the snow deformation section that God of War does it more accurately with better approximation. Where as with Tomb Raider (seriously take a look) you can see that it's essentially calculating with a far more basic preset shapes (less actual deformation through poly's). This is especially clear when you look at the wire-frame portion of the video. GoW is more detailed in its snow deformation, and seldom few could even arguably match it at the moment.
God of War
https://g.redditmedia.com/nHPbG3sgk...nted=false&s=0086b96e515fec03aab7a9dbc21b6365
Tomb Raider
https://youtu.be/XNdsoJuugTw
You can also see that the tessellation for Snow in Assassins Creed 3 isn't as detailed as Tomb Raider, or GoW. He sets benchmarks where it suits him and ignores them where it doesn't.
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I absolutely detest console exclusives, only play PS4 games that friends own, and it's absurd to say anything other than that GOW looks incredible.
Mediocre? Give me a break.
Mediocre? Give me a break.
I never said GOW used normal map for snow deformation.
My exact words were "Alot of games where snow is prominent uses tessellation / displacement heightmap based snow deformation."
What i did say concerning normal map was the muscle contortion.
Every statement i have made so far have been bullseye. Your inaccurate depiction of GI shows you lack some knowledge required to discuss technical aspects of game engines and hence the ability to adequately evaluate rendering pipeline of games and their visual fidelity.
You can call me delusional but i backed up all of my statement with visual evidence and facts.
Lastly saying something is based off of several decade old tech is not diminishing its qualities.
But what it showcases is that the person using that as their supporting argument might not be as knowledgeable as they think in that subject.
The reason i haven't posted 20+ pics is because i don't want to flood this thread with more pic evidence than i have already done.
God of war has probably the best implementation of snow tech, I have seen. For the other part it is up there current gen title not better... I prefer HZD more consistent...
Another fact, HZD art direction is not photorealistic , same thing than God of War. ND games are stylized too. Out of Detroit and Death Stranding the other game art direction are not photorealistic...
Another fact, HZD art direction is not photorealistic , same thing than God of War. ND games are stylized too. Out of Detroit and Death Stranding the other game art direction are not photorealistic...
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At the end of the day you've said that everything God of War does is mediocre and that there isn't one single impressive thing about it. No one can have a reasonable conversation on that basis.
What you're talking about is baking skin deformation through linear blending.
They are using realtime pose shape deformation of the model mesh.
"We wanted to read subtle emotions on characters' faces and used specific technology to help achieve this, such as pose-space deformation, which was previously only used in films."
https://godofwar.playstation.com/stories/evolving-tech-gow
GPU based Real-Time Weighted Pose-Space Deformation
http://graphics.usc.edu/cgit/publications/papers/Rhee06_EG.pdf
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I find it funny that you go to your friends house to play with their PS4 exclusive games. I wonder what you say to them " Hey can I come over to your house to play your PS4 exclusive games because I hate console exclusive games and don't want to waste my money supporting such ridiculous practice like what you are doing, but please let me play your console exclusive so I can chime in a forum about the exclusive game"
Sorry corrected, it was not what I wanted to say... Like I said only Detroit and Death Stranding have phororealistic art direction...
Edit: I was not knowing God of War use mesh deformation for muscle... Another great technology for the game...
Edit 2: The most complex rigged character of a Sony game is Ellie for Last of US 2 said by Neil Druckmann
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That isn't how friendship works. Maybe you're unfamiliar with the concept.
Well, SoT came out and that was not the case...except, you know, for the water :P
Detroit and Death Stranding also don't have photorealistic art direction. All of these games despite being realistic push for the look of a film, and by design avoid the mundane lighting conditions of real life:
How strong the color of the flame is
The perfectly placed spotlight
The light pointed directly at her face
Driveclub is a good example of a game where the lighting at times, looks completely mundane:
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Detroit and Death Stranding also don't have photorealistic art direction. All of these games despite being realistic push for the look of a film, and by design avoid the mundane lighting conditions of real life:
How strong the color of the flame is
The perfectly placed spotlight
The light pointed directly at her face
But character are less stylized than the other... After they use light like in movie in cutscene the same things is done in most of the games but Detroit use it in gameplay sequence because detroit is a playing cutscene, the gameplay are the choice you made....
I am not sure Death Stranding will use the it during gameplay... After they will maybe do like HZD and hide the lighting condition were the graphics are not shinning.
Edit: it the reason of the accelarated change of from day tpmo night on HZD they don't want to have mundane lighting condition...
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Lol people bringing up tomb raider and qb like they are even contenders.
Nothing has come close to The Order, at least for consoles, and that was a launch window game.
All these games were great looking, spectacles to behold for sure. But none of them were great games.
GoW has some of the best gameplay, rpg elements, story, progression, AND the visuals. It beats all those games hands down.
If you just want to argue visuals, then yes, just go back to the order 1886. Or wait for Detroit. That might get there. Quantum Break and Tomb Raider don't come close to it visually.
Nothing has come close to The Order, at least for consoles, and that was a launch window game.
All these games were great looking, spectacles to behold for sure. But none of them were great games.
GoW has some of the best gameplay, rpg elements, story, progression, AND the visuals. It beats all those games hands down.
If you just want to argue visuals, then yes, just go back to the order 1886. Or wait for Detroit. That might get there. Quantum Break and Tomb Raider don't come close to it visually.
New batch, can't wait for photomode, all shots are the beginning of the game, no spoiler at all.
But the snow deformity in other parts of the game look nowhere as good, worst than ps3 level, with no deformation at all or "disappearing deformation".
Virtual fighter 5 on ps360 had better deformation simulation than this I think.
The Order came out two years after the PS4 launched and look at my posts about the tech of Quantum Break. Tomb Raider as well, is incredible comparable when it comes to snow tech.
This is a thread about visuals, there's an OT if you want to gush about gameplay instead of derailing this one.
Really brings home the idea that calling this the best looking game of all time is really off the mark.
....people are actually comparing the models for Quantum Break and God of War?
God of War models look like it's from a different generation. Some scenes are CG quality at times.
The only character models that's up to par is the girl from Hellblade, and Aloy.
God of War models look like it's from a different generation. Some scenes are CG quality at times.
The only character models that's up to par is the girl from Hellblade, and Aloy.
Quantum Break literally has more complex models and better animation in cutscenes than the ones used in God of War. They literally used a higher quality performance capture and model scanning method, http://www.di4d.com/work/entertainment/quantum-break/
and that was one of the most consistent praises for the game
http://www.di4d.com/news-blog/praise-for-quantum-break-facial-animation/
One of the main weaknesses of God of War specifically is the stiff, (for modern standards), facial animation and eye shading:
See the examples two examples I posted above.
The idea that QB is not a notable example of performance capture, modeling, and lighting in this industry is ridiculous.
no one is derailing. Maybe you just decided to leave out the VISUALS part of my post.
The order is a better game for visuals than the games you mentioned, The end.
GoW is also doing things qb and tr are not, visually. Even if not as photorealistic. Which is why it's getting such high legitimate praise.
Why don't you then show me how GOW graphics is not mediocre? What i have said is that GOW is no where near "the best looking game of all time" or even the best looking game this gen. The division, AC Unity, Uncharted 4, Horizon, QB, all easily surpasses it. When you compare the actual tech and the visual fidelity, its not even close.
GOW actually has one of the worst looking snow tech. The snow looks way too rough and is not physically accurate. It also doesn't reflect nor does it use sub surface scattering.
and in terms of snow deformation Batman Origins and Horizon has it beat.
The Division has the best snow tech and its not even close.
I never ignored it, i said "This is pretty much standard in alot of games today, Horizon, ROTR, QB, AC Unity, The division"
Looks like you have a habit of misquoting/misrepresenting my actual responses.
Notice i never said who does it better? But i was responding to your statement that said "Adaptive tessellation for snow deformation (most games don't do this)"
Alluding that GOW is the only games that does snow deformation when infact almost all games which feature primarily snow environment does it.
But yet Again you are misrepresenting my response.
Now when it comes to who does it visually better?
Batman Arkam Origins and Horizon hands down have a more impressive snow deformation.
ROTR deformation is actually more accurate for the type of snow in its environment but what mess up the look is that they don't add adequate enough normal map and breakaway snow on top of the tessellated area.
They do, ROTR alone have several items dangling from her body, let alone her hair.
These are simple things and I always provide proof but i don't want to clog this thread. But for example you mentioned muscle contusion and i replied with other games have done it. its nothing new because its what is already being done with cloth.
Quantum Break On PC looks better than The Order, QB's biggest issue was IQ, a necessity because the game can't run on the original XB1 otherwise.
Detroit's pre-release materials already have better visuals than God of War.
Quantum Break literally has more complex models and better animation in cutscenes than the ones used in God of War. They literally used a higher quality performance capture and model scanning method, http://www.di4d.com/work/entertainment/quantum-break/
and that was one of the most consistent praises for the game
http://www.di4d.com/news-blog/praise-for-quantum-break-facial-animation/
One of the main weaknesses of God of War specifically is the stiff, (for modern standards), facial animation and eye shading:
See the examples two examples I posted above.
The idea that QB is not a notable example of performance capture, modeling, and lighting in this industry is ridiculous.
Are they using separate models between cutscenes and gameplay or something? The references I have for Jack are 75k
Lara uses almost 200k
RE7 Guy 121k.
Hellblade Girl 81k
http:///kBbc.png
I mean heck, the ThunderJaw in Horizon is 550k.
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I saw the videos, I'm not impressed.Quantum Break literally has more complex models and better animation in cutscenes than the ones used in God of War. They literally used a higher quality performance capture and model scanning method, http://www.di4d.com/work/entertainment/quantum-break/
and that was one of the most consistent praises for the game
http://www.di4d.com/news-blog/praise-for-quantum-break-facial-animation/
One of the main weaknesses of God of War specifically is the stiff, (for modern standards), facial animation and eye shading:
See the examples two examples I posted above.
The idea that QB is not a notable example of performance capture, modeling, and lighting in this industry is ridiculous.
But I'll take your word that the animation for Quantum Break in cutscenes is better but come on, I was talking about the quality of the character models. Take both Kratos' and the main character from QB side by side and there's a huge difference.
This is the first hour of the game, you can't tell this is the best part the game has to offer, again, first hour. The art direction will be madness for sure, because the first temple I did was awesome, graphically and art wise.
Why don't you then show me how GOW graphics is not mediocre? What i have said is that GOW is no where near "the best looking game of all time" or even the best looking game this gen. The division, AC Unity, Uncharted 4, Horizon, QB, all easily surpasses it. When you compare the actual tech and the visual fidelity, its not even close.
GOW actually has one of the worst looking snow tech. The snow looks way too rough and is not physically accurate. It also doesn't reflect nor does it use sub surface scattering.
and in terms of snow deformation Batman Origins and Horizon has it beat.
The Division has the best snow tech and its not even close.
I never ignored it, i said "This is pretty much standard in alot of games today, Horizon, ROTR, QB, AC Unity, The division"
Looks like you have a habit of misquoting/misrepresenting my actual responses.
Notice i never said who does it better? But i was responding to your statement that said "Adaptive tessellation for snow deformation (most games don't do this)"
Alluding that GOW is the only games that does snow deformation when infact almost all games which feature primarily snow environment does it.
But yet Again you are misrepresenting my response.
Now when it comes to who does it visually better?
Batman Arkam Origins and Horizon hands down have a more impressive snow deformation.
ROTR deformation is actually more accurate for the type of snow in its environment but what mess up the look is that they don't add adequate enough normal map and breakaway snow on top of the tessellated area.
They do, ROTR alone have several items dangling from her body, let alone her hair.
These are simple things and I always provide proof but i don't want to clog this thread. But for example you mentioned muscle contusion and i replied with other games have done it. its nothing new because its what is already being done with cloth.
I was speaking of the snow deformation. Snow is looking better in Horizon and snow dedormation is pretty good too but not as good as God of War imo.
And muscle deformarion with mesh is new...
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I do agree that saying this is the best looking game of all time is hyperbole but bloody hell, it's up there. Trying to play it down to looking mediocre is rediculous.
The high quality of the character models is specifically one of the reasons why the animation looks so lifelike. They're genuinely digital doubles of the actors:
Even the eyes in QB are yet another example of a next gen game with better looking eyes than the ones in God of War, note, all of these are genuine examples of games with incredibly high poly models with high res textures, so when God of War misses the mark on that it really stands out :
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You just named some of the most technologically accomplished games on the market and your best showing are when you can only name a title or two in an area where it is arguable that it does it better than God of War.
How convenient that you and you alone get to decide the criteria when other people have already pointed out what the GOW snow excels at over other titles.
You're projecting. For instance with this comment about Voxel grid lighting, not only do most games not use it (this is a fact) to degree of its usage in God of War is note worthy. I never said otherwise in my list by the by. But suddenly 'other games that are among the best on the market also using it' means that all games use these things equally as well or that because a handful of games also use the technique somehow is disproves the statement that most games do not use the technique! Because you're talking out of both sides on your mouth for whatever will allow you to discredit GOW at the time.
This is in fact not true. You'd need to get more specific for it to be accurate.
Hving seen the wire frame this absolutely is not true.
I do not believe you are capable of listing all the items on Kratos. The fact that you listed 'several' items for Lara shows just how little objective thought you've put into this. DF mentions how essentially ever item that Kratos is wearing is simulated, not just the dangling bits. Most games don't do it to the standard of Lara or Kratos, period. Which exposes how disingenuous you are.
These are simple things and I always provide proof but i don't want to clog this thread. But for example you mentioned muscle contusion and i replied with other games have done it. its nothing new because its what is already being done with cloth.
Go look up pose space deformation.
You need to stop changing the goal posts for every little thing and engage the topic honestly or I'm done responding. You are continuously taking comments out of context and interpreting statements selectively to suit your needs. I'm not the only one noticing this.
"But the thing is, nothing GOW does is great, its all very mediocre" - iamthatiam
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Eden you're losing me. You are showing those pictures side by side and it's proof that the Kratos' model looks better. When it comes to the eyes I'd say it's really hard to say how QB's look better than the ones in HZD, RoTR or GoW.
That needs better explanation.
That needs better explanation.
Eye shader is better in HZD or other game like Hellblade, UC4, RoTR than GOW
Ok, how? Because from what I've seen there's no major differences.
Are you confusing "I prefer this art direction" with "This is better tech." Because I literally made a post about the eye shaders earlier in the thread, GoW objectively has worse eye shaders than a good amount of games
Game's definitely a looker. Kratos model is especially a highlight, from the screenshot thread:
The highs are very high especially the scale,, but I'd say the highs of the game don't quite reach the level seen in games like Uncharted's living room scene or Hellblade's performance capture, one shortcoming is the eyes, eye shaders are so important to nail these days as they really bring a character to life:That fucking turtle
Well no, I'm looking at all those pictures, I watched a couple of QB videos, just finished a session of GoW and I'm wondering how on earth is the eye shading in GoW has worse.
It doesn't make sense. I'm looking at what's on my screen and there's no discernible difference. All look great. Which is why I want someone to tell me what QB is doing that's any better and why GoW's look worse.
The thing is, people keep posting the same early game screens of God of War and those look nice and all, but what the game later throws at you is 10 times more impressive, technically and artistically. People are really sensitive to spoilers, even in the dedicated photo thread, so right now one can't show the stuff that is really meaning business.
I'm sure that many, that haven't played the game and that are arguing it isn't even that impressive or pretty, would be really, really surprised.
I'm sure that many, that haven't played the game and that are arguing it isn't even that impressive or pretty, would be really, really surprised.
Iv'e played many a game like you all, But Kratos looks the best character model I have seen in a game ever, Galahad/Drake/Alloy Are all top tier, But Kratos looks the best.
SSM always deliver when it comes to visuals, But personally I'm more impressed with the sound quality but that's for another thread.
SSM always deliver when it comes to visuals, But personally I'm more impressed with the sound quality but that's for another thread.
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