You guys are angry at yo-yo decision of cutting the throath of the person who cut 2 of her limbs before when she thought it would prevent the world from blowing up ??
#Teamyoyo , #teamlemon
#Teamyoyo , #teamlemon
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Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. S5 |OT| Six Seasons and a Seventh
- Thread starter Absent
- Start date
She knew exactly what she was doing and I'm glad she did. Stupid comic trope of talking down powerful evil psychopaths always backfires. I thought they were going with that old trope until YoYo turned it on its head. Like most of the evil comic villains should be shot on sight at this point.
The problem with this logic is "judge, jury, executioner," all in one package. It's also really to say someone deserves to die when you don't have to pull the trigger. On top of this, Daisy isn't wrong about Ruby: she was raised to be a weapon without any choice of her own. She was bred to be the Destroyer from day fucking one. She'd also be a pretty great fighter on their side, but she 100% believes that the gravitonium is hers because she's had that belief hammered into her head. She doesn't fully understand what's happening and that's her partially her fault for not actually bothering to look outside of her own bratty needs, but also her mother's fault for railroading her down a dark tunnel with blinders on regarding information and education.
Now then, let's keep in mind: they have no idea what does and does not change the timeline. Killing Ruby may not have fixed anything, and may have been completely pointless. Killing her was probably the best option, but there's nothing that says it was the right one.
By plot armour I meant more in regards to Daisy always being written to be right e.g. No consequence to Robbin being moved to the lighthouse despite the Talbot tease or rather than Ruby just dying she has the weird gravity explosion because there's got to be some objective negative consequence to Yo-Yo's decision.
As for the Fitz stuff it's more in regards to him being willing to operate on Daisy against her will to save the future but not being willing to sacrifice himself and Simmons despite the fact they believe they're immortal and the future can't be changed? The original reason he gave for fixing the chamber in the prior ep was him saying the outcome would be the same no matter what, yet at the same time he's afraid him and Simmons could die? I thought the whole point of the Daisy torture was to show his pragmatism was unshakeable, now he's showing he wouldn't being to make the decision he forced Daisy to take if it was him of Simmons at risk and just comes across as a hypocrite?
I don't know, I just think the writing took a major dive in the last couple of episodes.
Daisy isn't written to always be right, though. She's been shown to be incredibly brash and harsh. Everyone has questioned her. Also bringing Robin out of hiding exposed her to Talbot, and the threat of attack on the Lighthouse due to Hale's deal with Qovac that we saw at the end of the episode. We also know that Robin's biological mother is dead in the future. And we have no idea what the consequence of killing Ruby is. We know that a flash of light is a bad indicator of the loop, and we've had two already: the beacon, and now this. This is honestly probably a fear dimension scenario, which Daisy was also wrong about as we've seen demonstrated.
Also I don't know where you're getting that Fitz's pragmatism is unshakable. Remember what Aida said: Fitz is the romantic. Fitz does what he does out of how much he cares for others. He doesn't see them as expendable, and he certainly doesn't see Jemma that way. Also, remember during the firefight when Jemma's gun jammed and she yelled about why they thought they could do this? I believe that they're realizing that they've locked themselves in the loop by rushing headlong into these situations because they're "invincible."
The team is realizing more and more how much fucking up they're doing.
Also I don't know where you're getting that Fitz's pragmatism is unshakable. Remember what Aida said: Fitz is the romantic. Fitz does what he does out of how much he cares for others. He doesn't see them as expendable, and he certainly doesn't see Jemma that way. Also, remember during the firefight when Jemma's gun jammed and she yelled about why they thought they could do this? I believe that they're realizing that they've locked themselves in the loop by rushing headlong into these situations because they're "invincible."
The team is realizing more and more how much fucking up they're doing.
Didn't get that impression, but regardless, from their PoV, she's the one attacking them.
I definitely disagree there. I'm not saying that if it was me, I'd have what it takes to slice her neck without remorse. I just perfectly see where YoYo is coming from.
And they have to consider what Ruby, accidentally or otherwise, might do to them if left unchecked. It's easy for us as viewers to wag our fingers, to use our knowledge that there is a few episodes left to come to the conclusion that obviously things aren't yet resolved. They don't have that knowledge, and they were in a tense, extremely dangerous situation. I mean, you gotta do what you gotta do.
Regardless, she clearly thought about her decision, it was premeditated as opposed to "She took my arms, AHHHH I'LL KILL YOU ASAP"
That same episode had them realize that maybe they should chill with pushing their luck regarding their presumed invincibility. Call them a hypocrite or w/e, but Fitz putting Jemma over EVERYTHING is completely consistent with his characterization.
I don't agree.
Like how is this even a debate. Ignoring the fact that Ruby is an unstable Hydralette that has maimed and tried to kill people with little remorse, and absolutely intended on killing Fitzsimmons after she got what she wanted because that's what evil psychopaths do, and went into an anti-Captain America chamber to become what NAZI's dubbed "Destroyer of Worlds," the gravitonium was playing volleyball with her already twisted mind. You saw what happened to Creel. The only way they would be able to "talk her down" was to get the gravitonium out of her. It just so happened that slicing her throat did the trick.
The reason it's a debate is because YoYo knew that they were locked in unless they let Coulson die. That's what we have to assume is the truth. Her saying she saved the world doesn't ring true given what we know. So right now, she killed a scared kid who got way in over her head.
Also, I've made my argument for Ruby's redemption: she was a born and bred weapon who wanted the thing she was bred to do, but ultimately she simply wanted to choose to do what she wanted. Daisy says it straight up: It's not her fault she is the way she is. She was literally engineered to be this way, but she has that childishness that was both her downfall and the source of a possible redemption.
Also, I've made my argument for Ruby's redemption: she was a born and bred weapon who wanted the thing she was bred to do, but ultimately she simply wanted to choose to do what she wanted. Daisy says it straight up: It's not her fault she is the way she is. She was literally engineered to be this way, but she has that childishness that was both her downfall and the source of a possible redemption.
I'm not sure if the writers are intentionally making Daisy unlikable in this arc or not. She's all over the place on her judgement, yet the script keeps screaming "she's the leader!!!" Yes, it's pretty much her first time really given the weight of command, and fuck-ups are to be expected, but those are supposed to be identified as such. The apprentice gets thrust into command, makes brash, wrong decisions, the master returns, scolds them for those decisions, but the apprentice learns and grows from the experience. That's how it's supposed to happen. Only, here, Daisy fucks up, Coulson returns, and just gives her a 'it's hard, but you're doing well' thing, and that's it.
So we get Coulson seriously violating her, and she's all "whatever". Then Fitz does it, and she acts like there can never be redemption for him (which ignores their entire history). Then she watches a girl who was genetically engineered and raised to be evil incarnate crush someone's skull, attack her own mother, attack HER, and is like "oh, she's so innocent, I was getting through to her! She can't be blamed for her actions!" Completely ignoring the fact that Ruby sliced Yo-Yo's arms off and attempted to kill Fitz, Simmons, Coulson, and others BEFORE infusing with the gravitonium.
"I had it under control, she was coming around..." yeah, fuck you and your self-righteous revisionist bullshit...especially the way she says "..and then Yo-Yo KILLED her."
So we get Coulson seriously violating her, and she's all "whatever". Then Fitz does it, and she acts like there can never be redemption for him (which ignores their entire history). Then she watches a girl who was genetically engineered and raised to be evil incarnate crush someone's skull, attack her own mother, attack HER, and is like "oh, she's so innocent, I was getting through to her! She can't be blamed for her actions!" Completely ignoring the fact that Ruby sliced Yo-Yo's arms off and attempted to kill Fitz, Simmons, Coulson, and others BEFORE infusing with the gravitonium.
"I had it under control, she was coming around..." yeah, fuck you and your self-righteous revisionist bullshit...especially the way she says "..and then Yo-Yo KILLED her."
ICEing her to get her to the past
Which is not at all on the same tier of what Fitz did
Sorry, but they're close to identical. In both cases Daisy had made a clear decision which was ignored by rendering her helpless. Yes, it's easy to see what Fitz did as worse because of the visceral nature of it, and because Daisy was given a voice during the scene, but if it had played out with Fitz knocking her out completely, quietly performing surgery on her, then, when she woke up, informing her that her powers are back, then I think more people would understand how the two situations are the same.
They aren't the same. Reducing the situation to simply removing Daisy's choice makes them the same, but there's a greater nuance to it that does make them different. Look at how quickly Daisy got over being ICEd. She wasn't traumatized by it. She was like, "yeah that makes sense that you'd do that thing."
Daisy's decisions this season have revolved around her desire to have stability and control over her life, something that is constantly denied. The one time she was given control of a team (CATERPILLAR), she was brainwashed and the whole thing was wrecked. Every time she's been given choice, she chooses drastic options because she doesn't fully understand control. It has nothing to do with making her unlikable. She legitimately has no idea what she's doing. She saw that same thing in Ruby.
THIS, like wtf, shouldn't even need to be said
That's not what happened though.
Show is poor now, same locations every week, and about to be backed into a corner by Infinity War. Whilst we know the movies couldn't care less what happens in TV land, the TV arm of Marvel has desperately clung onto the belief for years that they're actually connected...but Infinity War will (sadly, admittedly) eviscerate that very notion.
I've said it before, it is a shame that the movie division couldn't have Martin Freeman, or Benedict Cumberbatch (seasoned TV performers) pay a visit to at least keep some sort of pretence going but that's just how it is.
I know this show has it's fans on here, and I'll continue to watch, but this season feels such a slog right now.
I've said it before, it is a shame that the movie division couldn't have Martin Freeman, or Benedict Cumberbatch (seasoned TV performers) pay a visit to at least keep some sort of pretence going but that's just how it is.
I know this show has it's fans on here, and I'll continue to watch, but this season feels such a slog right now.
Exactly. What-ifs are nonsense in this scenario.
Also, it's still not the same.
The second half of this season is giving me huge vibes of Angel season 4. Very dark with a number of characters crossing over that shade of grey.
They are connected.
Like, jesus. Just stop.
Also how is this gonna be backed into a corner by IW? What's the plot and ramification of IW on the MCU that would affect AoS?
I've been saying, Fitz is basically Wesley.
In regards to Infinity War; we have to remember that the past like 4 episodes all happened in the span of like 2 days. This entire arc could be taking place last fall or earlier this year. And with IW being moved up a week, that also hurts them a bit. I hope they do have an episode planned to deal with the fall out from IW though. Even if it's the 2nd to last or last episode of the season.
No need to get upset because others view things very differently chaps. All about opinions.
That's not the point. There's literally no reason for people to keep saying "it's not connected." So what if it doesn't affect the movies? Like, they're still connected. There's a disdain for this that I don't understand and never will.
There's no disdain on my part whatsoever? There's nothing I would love more than for the MCU's cinematic tales to be carried on through it's TV narratives, I've even theorised in this thread before about ways in which it could or should happen, but nothing the TV division ever does will have any sort of serious impact on the movies. That's sadly just how it is. We'd all like to keep up the pretence that there's a solid connection, but there isn't. If you choose to believe they're connected that's absolutely fair enough, many others choose not to. Marvel Studios make too much money to give even a second thought to what the TV shows are doing.
And again, as I've said before, it's unfortunate. I'd love for the likes of Punisher and Kingpin to take the step up to the big screen as there are so many stories these characters could be pivotal in, played brilliantly by Bernthal and D'Onofrio - stars with a proven box office track record. But it's important to realise that either actor could be dropped within seconds if Marvel wanted to bring their own take to cinemas.
And again, as I've said before, it's unfortunate. I'd love for the likes of Punisher and Kingpin to take the step up to the big screen as there are so many stories these characters could be pivotal in, played brilliantly by Bernthal and D'Onofrio - stars with a proven box office track record. But it's important to realise that either actor could be dropped within seconds if Marvel wanted to bring their own take to cinemas.
There is no pretense. It is connected. It takes place in the same universe, and there's no reason to say otherwise.
Let's put it this way: In comics, there are isolated stories all the time. Stories that don't take into account other in universe events. That's just how it is. It doesn't mean those stories aren't within the same universe. Just because the movies have more impact doesn't mean the shows don't exist. There's no pretending, there's no desperate clinging. It's all being taken at face value, so why take it any other way?
How reliable is Cancel Bear? The person thinks that Agents is "likely to be renewed by May 2018."
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/re...-week-30-the-crossing-will-probably-get-lost/
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/re...-week-30-the-crossing-will-probably-get-lost/
It doesn't seem like they're tying in this season. If there's a tie-in, it'll likely be after a renewal as a post-season stinger.
Yeah, I get you.
I'm afraid that someone will post unmarked spoilers in the form of a question.
I'm not going to spoil anything however the film has been out in Australia for a day now and after watching it they will 100% need to address it in agents of shield. I'm really looking forward to next weeks episode now. Complete game changer
The producers mentioned they're very, very excited to do S6 if given the opportunity. (I have not seen it yet, but am aware of the A4 casting leak)
They're pretty damn reliable, they're basically the original gold standard for predicting renewal and cancellation. Their "Cancellation Bear" mascot is so well known that it's even been referenced in at least one TV show (Galavant).
That said, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is a hard one to do predictions for because of the Disney/Marvel factor. They seem to be assuming Disney will intervene and renew the show regardless of ratings, but that's a variable they can't really predict confidently.
Reminder that there is no indication this season is happening in real time. The entirety of season 5 could take place before Infinity War.
They've been predicting that for months. I do hope they're right on this.
No, get out while you can. You don't need to be spoiled about how Coulson single handedly defeats Thanos.
Given the casting leak for A4, there's definitely some amount of time between the two movies.
I thought that indicated
time travel
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I'd be surprised if it was time travel, since they let AoS use it for S5 and Captain Marvel is clearly gonna have some sort of time travel/dilation/carbonite thing going on.
Yeah I came back from it a couple of hours ago. Only way it wont have MASSIVE impact on the AoS or netflix shows is if they happen before it.
It's very unlikely they react to the film until a potential season 6 premiere.
Remember, the US release of the film was moved up a week so if there is any reaction at all, it would be in the final two episodes of the season, May 11 and May 18.
But I think they're too deep into what is happening now in the show to switch to an Infinity War tie-in at this point.