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Television Displays and Technology Thread: The ERA of OLED is Now

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molnizzle

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
Nothing said:
The new Q9FN looks pretty cool. But if you care about HDR, I'm not sure how you can pay (anywhere close to) $3800 for a 65" television that doesn't have Dolby Vision, and its company is possibly still pushing HDR10+. Has Samsung come around on any of that stuff yet? Are they talking about any future updates to their 2017 or 2018 sets?
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This is a valid drawback for those who watch TV/movies on the same set (so most people, admittedly). Personally I already have have an OLED in my home theater for that. I'm just looking for the best gaming-specific TV to replace my old Panasonic plasma.

With this game motion plus out now and Freesync/HDMI VRR confirmed to be coming later via firmware update... the 2018 Samsung QLED's are looking mighty tempting.
 
DOTDASHDOT

DOTDASHDOT

Helios Abandoned. Atropos Conquered.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,079
This is one of the things I love about OLED, how you can have 0 blacks, mixed in with grey, and have bright speculars piercing through the black, I mean as much as I think FALD's are good, it's this end of the scale that means the most to me.

20180426_210256pqpv4.jpg
 
Nothing

Nothing

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,095
molnizzle said:
This is a valid drawback for those who watch TV/movies on the same set (so most people, admittedly). Personally I already have have an OLED in my home theater for that. I'm just looking for the best gaming-specific TV to replace my old Panasonic plasma.

With this game motion plus out now and Freesync/HDMI VRR confirmed to be coming later via firmware update... the 2018 Samsung QLED's are looking mighty tempting.
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this is true. I suppose that makes the Q9FN the best gaming-only TV. That is something to consider.
 
Chamber

Chamber

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,279
Apharmd said:
Yeah, I liked the KS9800 as well in 2016. Samsung's 2017 decisions are baffling in retrospect but, certainly for gaming, 2018 is very competitive. Options are good, I think in 2018 LG got too comfortable; they didn't fall as far as Samsung in '17 but I think there's a good argument to be made at the high-end for the Q8/Q9 versus the C8/E8.
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They just have different priorities. Samsung has a partnership with Xbox so they're all about gaming right now. OLED is mainly aimed at cinephiles and motion handling was the one issue holding them back so they worked on that. The rapidly falling prices on OLED aren't hurting either.
 
Lurkyseas

Lurkyseas

Banned
Dec 31, 2017
2,160
Question: Is either a 50" or a 55" HDTV good enough for 4K viewing?

I'm looking forward to buying myself a good 4K TV for my room on Black Friday in the near future.
 
Madness

Madness

Member
Oct 25, 2017
791
DOTDASHDOT said:
This is one of the things I love about OLED, how you can have 0 blacks, mixed in with grey, and have bright speculars piercing through the black, I mean as much as I think FALD's are good, it's this end of the scale that means the most to me.

20180426_210256pqpv4.jpg
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I mean if you have a bright room, you are SoL. The Q9FN looks pretty amazing. Having seen how much, for lack of a better word here, 'better' Dolby Vision can be over HDR. I do have to agree that if you are rarely the one to upgrade quickly, factor in DV support. Though some guys will always be OLED only because they need the black levels. No different than the plasma days. At the end of the day, your room you are buying your tv for, the content ie. Gaming or Movies, the size and price all factor into it
 
tmdorsey

tmdorsey

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,654
Georgia
DOTDASHDOT said:
This is one of the things I love about OLED, how you can have 0 blacks, mixed in with grey, and have bright speculars piercing through the black, I mean as much as I think FALD's are good, it's this end of the scale that means the most to me.

20180426_210256pqpv4.jpg
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Don't kill me OLED bruhs, but I feel like there's some black crush going on here. Seems like I should be able to make out more of the character than I'm seeing. Maybe it's just the picture?
 
DOTDASHDOT

DOTDASHDOT

Helios Abandoned. Atropos Conquered.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,079
tmdorsey said:
Don't kill me OLED bruhs, but I feel like there's some black crush going on here. Seems like I should be able to make out more of the character than I'm seeing. Maybe it's just the picture?
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There's a bit more shadow detail around Kratos, but there are quite a few bits in GOW, where it's like sheet black.
 
Sanctuary

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,243
tmdorsey said:
Don't kill me OLED bruhs, but I feel like there's some black crush going on here. Seems like I should be able to make out more of the character than I'm seeing. Maybe it's just the picture?
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Haven't seen the improvements to the 2017 or 2018 models, but the 2016 models are notoriously bad for their near black levels. My B6 does in fact crush at times, but even with that factored in, it still delivered a better picture than any competing tech of that year. The sets that came out later were supposed to have made slight improvements, but I don't know how much, nor if it can ever be improved enough to the point where you are not missing details from 1% - 10%. However, the picture you are quoting is later on in an area that has many super dark areas. It was plenty dark on my crummy Asus monitor that doesn't crush at all.
 
ShaDowDaNca

ShaDowDaNca

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,648
Merrill said:
I'd seriously consider this logic flawed. He is intentionally misleading you and others after being called out many times by other users about his "true fald" statements.

You will get what you pay for. Simple as that.
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Not sure if serious?
Do you have a actual counter/proof that what i said isn't true? If not please quit trolling me.
 
MrBob

MrBob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,670
Nothing said:
The new Q9FN looks pretty cool. But if you care about HDR, I'm not sure how you can pay (anywhere close to) $3800 for a 65" television that doesn't have Dolby Vision, and its company is possibly still pushing HDR10+. Has Samsung come around on any of that stuff yet? Are they talking about any future updates to their 2017 or 2018 sets?
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Yeah Samsung's excuses don't hold much water anymore. Especially when you can get a 65" TCL tv for 1000 dollars with Dolby Vision support. Plus DV is a more advanced version of HDR than HDR10+ Samsung is trying to push. I have a hard time feeling sorry for them when they can't eat a small DV fee for better HDR on their 3800 dollar TV. It's a glaring omission.

There is too much DV content out there now for Samsung to ignore the format. Glad to see they are finally getting serious about adding support.
 
Bumrush

Bumrush

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,770
Merrill said:
I'd seriously consider this logic flawed. He is intentionally misleading you and others after being called out many times by other users about his "true fald" statements.

You will get what you pay for. Simple as that.
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To be fair, life is not always "you get what you pay for" and it seems like - to an extent, this is true with the TCLs
 
DrFunk

DrFunk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,911
aka Bueno said:
He said it was the most impressive TV he's reviewed or something like that.

Amazing in both brightness and black levels.

Could not tell a difference between OLED and this TV in black levels until he got close to the Samsung and it fell just short of an OLED but otherwise said blacks were jet black, with great shadow detail.

Said peak brightness is top notch, Samsung rated at 2k nits which would be the highest of any Tv, but he actually measured it at closer to 2.5k.

Back lit not edge lit.

Something like 500 dimming zones and new algorithm, resulting in no noticeable halo-ing or very very very little if you try to look for it. He said it wasn't an issue.

Top notch color saturation

Basically said it's the mostly versatile TV (gaming, movies, sports, etc) in any viewig condition.

Samsung already had great game mode input lag but improved it on this year's models. He measured game mode at 16ms.

Said he had no complaints about the motion resolution, but was just ok nothing spetacular.

Viewing angles much improved.

Doesn't like the processing box, bigger than an Xbox One S, same amount of inputs as before.

Hope that helps
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oooooo Sony ain't gonna let that pass

methinks a Z9F *is* coming this year
 
0ptimusPayne

0ptimusPayne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,754
Welp I officially caved..Heading to BB to go pick up my B7 OLED. Wasn't satisfied with the 900e in my man cave. Hope I don't regret this lol.
 
Burger Time

Burger Time

Member
Oct 26, 2017
118
Marmelade said:
You won't have 1 frame of input lag added, look at the rtings figures for the Q8F.

Interpolation generally sucks when watching movies or TV shows because of the dreaded soap opera effect.
You don't have to worry about that with games.

If done right it can look very good, especially with such a low input lag



No idea how good the interpolation is on the Samsung though.
If it's relatively artifact free, it's gonna be great for 30fps games
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Wow, that looks awesome on the 30fps stuff. I'm assuming this isn't really needed with a proper freesync implementation but can they somehow be combined?
 

Deleted member 17092

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
20,360
Well I guess I hope lg can patch their input lag with interpolation. Doubtful. But at least I can do 120hz 1080p with downsampling
 
TLZ

TLZ

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,332
I've officially dropped wide color gamut from all my hdr and sdr settings on my C6. Apparently Normal is the way to go to push rec2020. Problem is wide color gamut is locked under sdr game mode so I'm forced to use that, and had to lower color to 40 to at least try match normal color gamut. Don't understand why LG did this and created this confusion.
 
dallow_bg

dallow_bg

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,630
texas
TLZ said:
I've officially dropped wide color gamut from all my hdr and sdr settings on my C6. Apparently Normal is the way to go to push rec2020. Problem is wide color gamut is locked under sdr game mode so I'm forced to use that, and had to lower color to 40 to at least try match normal color gamut. Don't understand why LG did this and created this confusion.
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Change your input icon to a PC so you can use Normal color gamut with Game Mode. It's a workaround, but at least colors look better.
 
Soriku

Soriku

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,906
Uhh, so...

I put my B7 on sale a few hours ago. Reason being I went to my closest Magnolia theater Best Buy and checked out the TVs again in the dark room. I've been thinking about this for a while. Last time I went there cuz I really wanted to see the 930e and how the brightness stacks up to the OLEDs, not just the LGs but also the A1. The brightness was good but I wasn't blown away. Went back home not thinking too much.

Went back yesterday. I had a change of opinion from what I saw last time. But actually not due to the 930e...rather the 900e caught my eye. It was weird. Last time I saw it I was like ehh 930e is better, 930e was right above it but this time it was just different for some reason. I didn't think the 900e was that different in brightness at least from the demos they showed, and in fact you know it might just be a settings issue but the 900e just looked more natural with a good level/balance of brightness while the 930e seemed overexposed, and I doubt the 900e was maxed out in case I wanted more brightness anyway.

The OLEDs excel in the dark but idk what's up with the A1s right next to the LEDs because everything they were showing was just really dull. The LGs looked better but dare I say I was more impressed by everything on the Sonys than even DV demos on the LGs? Wouldn't really bother me to go to a non DV display not huge on Netflix/UHD movies right now. It'll still have normal HDR.

But anyway more than this...the 900e they had there was a 75" but that's not relevant really, I liked the size of the 65" inches and 75 isn't doable for me from a room/cost perspective so tbh if I sell my OLED I'm strongly considering getting a 65" Sony 900e since the price is good now, I've started to feel my 55" OLED is a bit small, and I quite enjoyed the picture of the 900e and hell just based on the demos don't feel like it's any worse than my OLED at home really, if anything I was a bit more impressed than the instore OLEDs too :/

That said I think about everyone generally agrees size is about the most important thing right?

Viewing angle looked perfectly acceptable too imo.

As a side note about the 930e kinda sucks the input lag for 1080p is kinda high? Good for PS4 Pro/XBX I guess, but if you have a Switch, not so good. Not that I'm really sensitive to lag but I have started to notice it more recently.

OK done rambling.
 
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Smash-It Stan

Smash-It Stan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,280
Marmelade said:
You won't have 1 frame of input lag added, look at the rtings figures for the Q8F.

Interpolation generally sucks when watching movies or TV shows because of the dreaded soap opera effect.
You don't have to worry about that with games.

If done right it can look very good, especially with such a low input lag


No idea how good the interpolation is on the Samsung though.
If it's relatively artifact free, it's gonna be great for 30fps games
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This looks like black magic/wizardry. Even with solid flate 30fps frametime games, any game i've tried with motion smoothing looks like the FFXV example but with artifacts, visual noise and whatnot turned up to 1000. Did motion interlopation really get that much better compared to my 2011 tv?
 
Lakeside

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,229
Soriku said:
Uhh, so...

I put my B7 on sale a few hours ago. Reason being I went to my closest Magnolia theater Best Buy and checked out the TVs again in the dark room. I've been thinking about this for a while. Last time I went there cuz I really wanted to see the 930e and how the brightness stacks up to the OLEDs, not just the LGs but also the A1. The brightness was good but I wasn't blown away. Went back home not thinking too much.

Went back yesterday. I had a change of opinion from what I saw last time. But actually not due to the 930e...rather the 900e caught my eye. It was weird. Last time I saw it I was like ehh 930e is better, 930e was right above it but this time it was just different for some reason. I didn't think the 900e was that different in brightness at least from the demos they showed, and in fact you know it might just be a settings issue but the 900e just looked more natural with a good level/balance of brightness while the 930e seemed overexposed, and I doubt the 900e was maxed out in case I wanted more brightness anyway.

The OLEDs excel in the dark but idk what's up with the A1s right next to the LEDs because everything they were showing was just really dull. The LGs looked better but dare I say I was more impressed by everything on the Sonys than even DV demos on the LGs? Wouldn't really bother me to go to a non DV display not huge on Netflix/UHD movies right now. It'll still have normal HDR.

But anyway more than this...the 900e they had there was a 75" but that's not relevant really, I liked the size of the 65" inches and 75 isn't doable for me from a room/cost perspective so tbh if I sell my OLED I'm strongly considering getting a 65" Sony 900e since the price is good now, I've started to feel my 55" OLED is a bit small, and I quite enjoyed the picture of the 900e and hell just based on the demos don't feel like it's any worse than my OLED at home really, if anything I was a bit more impressed than the instore OLEDs too :/

That said I think about everyone generally agrees size is about the most important thing right?

Viewing angle looked perfectly acceptable too imo.

As a side note about the 930e kinda sucks the input lag for 1080p is kinda high? Good for PS4 Pro/XBX I guess, but if you have a Switch, not so good. Not that I'm really sensitive to lag but I have started to notice it more recently.

OK done rambling.
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Trying to compare a TV at home to a demo TV in a store is a massively flawed comparison, let alone trying to compare two different technologies that way. I mean get what you want, but it's a flawed comparison. Your eyes are biased by the lighting in store, the settings, the demo material, heck even the sets around what you are viewing.
 
Dankir

Dankir

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,513
Well this week I said fuck it and made the jump. Yesterday got my new Denon AVRX6300 Reciever, today bought a Vizio M75 and 4 In ceiling speakers from Aperion Audio to complete my 7.1.4 Atmos setup.

Can't wait!!!
 
DOTDASHDOT

DOTDASHDOT

Helios Abandoned. Atropos Conquered.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,079
AVF member Q9FN:

"I'm not going to lie guys I'm very impressed with this tv and the viewing angle is much better than I was expecting, yes there is a little DSE and the the blacks are not anywhere near oled with the lack of detail, and there is a litte light bleed into black bars but overall it is very very good."

Finally some real user impressions, instead of listening to bullshit hyperbolic reviews.
 
DrFunk

DrFunk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,911
Kyoufu said:
How does the Q9FN compare to the ZD9 in terms of FALD zones and peak brightness?
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The Z9D still has more zones (~450 vs ~650), but the Q9FN is (apparently) overall brighter and does a better job with blooming, say reviews. I want to read more user reviews though. The Z9D is still an incredible tv for being nearly 2 years older, though.
 
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Waffle

Waffle

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,838
One1stepahead said:
The Q9FN is the best LCD out there at the moment and i still see a HUGE difference compared to the OLED. Damn.

y4SND.png

bEfns.png
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I'm not exactly sure why the first image looks the way it does. I can see why the second scene would cause some issues but why is the FALD causing such big blooming around the ring? Can someone who is knowledgeable with this stuff explain it to me please. Thanks :)
 
DOTDASHDOT

DOTDASHDOT

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Oct 26, 2017
3,079
Waffle said:
I'm not exactly sure why the first image looks the way it does. I can see why the second scene would cause some issues but why is the FALD causing such big blooming around the ring? Can someone who is knowledgeable with this stuff explain it to me please. Thanks :)
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The zones are too big for the bright parts essentially, hense why it bleeds into the blacks, more zones the better basically, as that would shrink the area illuminated.
 
Waffle

Waffle

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,838
DOTDASHDOT said:
The zones are too big for the bright parts essentially, hense why it bleeds into the blacks, more zones the better basically, as that would shrink the area illuminated.
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Ah... thanks. I just assumed around 450 dimming zones would allow it to be a bit better than that. Especially that first image. That's a shame, but most of that video looked pretty darn good for an LCD to me.
 
DOTDASHDOT

DOTDASHDOT

Helios Abandoned. Atropos Conquered.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,079
Waffle said:
Ah... thanks. I just assumed around 450 dimming zones would allow it to be a bit better than that. Especially that first image. That's a shame, but most of that video looked pretty darn good to me.
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It comes down to the dimming algorithm they use too, apparently Samsung are dimming the edges of each zone, to control blooming, but all FALD's get caught out, and will go haywire sometimes.
 
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