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sfortunato

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,741
Italy
I think people overlook the fact that Labo is targeted at children and is a mix between a toy and a video-game.

Not all kid-targeted new IPs had succeeded in the video gaming industry. But among those who had succeeded, you can clearly see a pattern, which is inherent of the fact that kids are slower adopters because they are less informed (fact #1), they don't have disposable income (fact #2), and they are influenced by peers much more than young adults (fact #3).

GB Pokémon Red / Green / Blue FW 140.074 / LTD 7.936.360
NDS Tomodachi Collection FW 100.371 / LTD 3.692.859
3DS Yo-kai Watch FW 52.901 / LTD 1.332.971
NDS Style Savvy FW 86.446 / LTD 891.076
PS1 Monster Farm FW 60.876 / LTD 729.063
NDS Inazuma Eleven FW 41.458 / LTD 401.820
PS1 Yu-Gi-Oh! Monster Capsule Breed & Battle FW 80.259 / LTD 255.490
NDS Fossil Fighters FW 39.666 / LTD 253.350
GB Medabots: Metabee Ver. / Rokusho Ver. FW 14.119 / LTD 226.191

Not saying Labo will succeed in the same way---just that we can't say whether it's a failure or not based on FW week. That is, FW numbers are not telling per se of the performance of the game. Now, Labo is also a new concept altogether so it's difficult to gauge market interest because being unproven it might break or not depending on WOM and actual usability.
 

silpheed-mcd

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,384
"Giles Goddard worked at Nintendo for a number of years. He got his start being invovled with StarFox, and then eventually became an employee of Nintendo themselves. He worked for Nintendo up to the GameCube days, so he certainly put in some time with the comapny. In an intervienw with Eurogamer, Goddard discusses a number of elements about Nintendo, including their work style, working on Super Mario 64, and how he believes the company's focus has shifted.

EU: You have an image of Nintendo - or certainly I did - that it's like Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory, this magical world where all the games come from.

GG: No, it's a factory.

EU: Was there any sense of occasion, that you were doing something big?

GG: Never. We had this game, we had a schedule and we had to do it otherwise... Well, who knows what would happen.

EU: So there was no sense of magic?

GG: Not at all. I don't think there is now either. It's such a clinical, rigid way of working. It amazes me they get so much creativity out of that place, with Zelda and Mario. You go there and it's white, it's clinical cubicles and bells ringing for lunch and for going home and that's it. How they get any creativity out of that place is beyond me. But they do do it.

EU: The team you worked with - Miyamoto, Eguchi, Watanabe - what were they like?

GG: They were great to work with. The individuals at Nintendo were all really good people, extremely talented. There's nothing wrong with the people - it's just the culture that was so old school.

EU: You did the famous Mario 64 face at the start of Super Mario 64 - how did you get that asset, how were you allowed to do that?

GG: When we got the Indys, they came with a camera. I put ping pong balls on my face and I thought it'd be cool to use the camera to control the face. And the justification was to test out the skinning - at that point, if you had two joints they'd be two separate objects. There was no smoothing. That's what I was experimenting in - how to do skinning. And a good demonstration of that was the Mario face. If you have a boss there that's seen this iteration of skinning, of facial animation - it's dicking around with a purpose, it's progressive and it's new stuff.

EU: Mario seemed significant because of how it seemed to fix 3D gaming, with its camera and everything, almost overnight.

GG: It took more than a year to realise that that was actually a viable gaming mechanic. At that point, 3D was so experimental that even the Mario team were questioning whether it was the right thing to do. Should the camera do this and that? Are we right to do this?

There was shit like with Sega having patents on pressing buttons to change camera views, so there was that side of things - whether we were actually legally entitled to do this camera view. It'd be unheard of nowadays - can you have this view, because Sega had this view? So Sega patented that, and we wanted to have that on Star Fox, and legal said you can't do that because Sega patented that. And we had to find a way around the patent.

That era was so patent driven, so rigid in what you could do and couldn't do - it wasn't as free-form, so much of a wild west as people think it was. You had to work around a lot of stupid rules and legal stuff, and people not knowing whether 3D should be this way or that.

EU: Has Nintendo changed that much since?

GG: It's much the same. It did change a bit after Iwata-san passed away. Now it's very focussed on money. Iwata was adamant that their core philosophy should be on the game, not on the money. Now it's almost entirely the money, which does worry me a bit.

more here:
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...ho-smuggled-the-demoscene-into-super-mario-64

https://gonintendo.com/stories/307940-former-nintendo-employee-on-nintendo-s-clinical-rigid-work-sty


 
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Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,189
Over 600 games on Switch (end of March 2018)

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3DS, over 1.000

ZOYapyv.png
Yeah thought as much. in terms of quantity of support the 3DS really didn't receive all that. In terms of third party support the switch will surpass the 3DS next year I believe and while likely get some larger games ported to it from this point onwards
 

hiska-kun

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,410
Labo Variety Kit is back on the first spot on Amazon.jp. I wonder if this is the beginning of Golden Week Sales.

PS4 Slim is back on stock.
 

Nocturnal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,321
M-C 2018 Switch Top 10:
1) Splatoon 2 - 484.053
2) Kirby Star Allies(2018) - 433.488
3) Mario Kart 8 Deluxe - 351.851
4) Super Mario Odyssey - 300.190
5) The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild - 190.377
6) Mario + Rabbids(2018) - 167.333
7) Nintendo Labo Toy-Con 01: Variety Kit(2018) - 90.410
8) 1-2 Switch - 77.792
9) Arms - 65.975
10) The Snack World: TreJarers Gold(2018) - 51.502

Total SW Sales Top 10: 2.212.971


Famitsu 2018 Switch Top 10:
1) Splatoon 2 - 471.093
2) Kirby Star Allies(2018) - 445.194
3) Mario Kart 8 Deluxe - 335.724
4) Super Mario Odyssey - 322.271
5) The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild - 216.240
6) Mario + Rabbids(2018) - 190.861
7) Nintendo Labo Toy-Con 01: Variety Kit(2018) - 93.118
8) 1-2 Switch - 79.826
9) Arms - 75.024
10) Dragon Ball: Xenoverse 2 - 55.400

Total SW Sales Top 10: 2.284.751


M-C 2012 3DS Top 10:
1) Mario Kart 7 - 500.590
2) Super Mario 3D Land - 439.111
3) Monster Hunter 3G - 417.798
4) Kingdom Hearts 3D(2012) – 289.668
5) Resident Evil: Revelations(2012) - 244.116
6) Fire Emblem: Awakening(2012) - 242.600
7) Kid Icarus: Uprising(2012) - 231.558
8) Harvest Moon: The Land of Origin(2012) - 165.182
9) Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games(2012) - 137.326
10) Hatsune Miku and Future Stars: Project Mirai(2012) - 137.326

Total SW Sales Top 10: 2.805.275

Famitsu I guess didn't release figures back in 2012.


I'm expecting Switch software to start catching up on the 3DS lead during April/May and close the gap to because of DKTF launch and strong software performance during GW. It will fall behind once again due to the DQM release at the end of May. but as I've said I expect Mario Tennis Aces to end up with over >500K sales by the end of 2018. So overall by the end of July I think Switch's Top 10 will be ahead of 3DS sales and this will remain the case until the end of the year. Overall the first half of the year for the 3DS had much more releases than the Switch's first half of 2018.

Second half of the year things change and become loopsided for the Switch - 3DS only had Animal Crossing, New Super Mario Bros. 2 selling more than 1M and all other "big" titles sold less than 400K in 2012.

Compare that to the Switch which during the second half of the year potentially is getting Smash, Pokemon, Yo-Kai, Dragon Quest Builders 2, Taiko, Inazuma, Octopath and potentially another big title from Nintendo(I'm thinking Fire Emblem) and probably a few more 3rd party games. I honestly think many of these titles will end up selling more than 400K in 2018, the only ones I'm unsure about are Inazuma & Octopath.
 

Grads

Member
Oct 25, 2017
754
Actually page 25 of the Financial Results contains a graph with regional shares for several games, starting from the first Hokuto no Musou and ending with Attack on Titan 2. Blue = Japan, Red = Overseas (Asia included). If anyone's willing to do some pixel counting, we might get decent estimates of Japanese and overseas shipments for Fire Emblem Warriors, Dynasty Warriors 9 and Attack on Titan 2, three of the most recent titles included in the graph.
https://twitter.com/GameDataLibrary/status/989695575217070080 Already done.
NiOh: 1.61m OV, 290K DOM
FEW: 800k OV: 200k DOM
DW9: 475k OV, 255k DOM
AOT2: 340k OV, 180k DOM
 
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hiska-kun

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,410
Dynasty Warrios 9 just 255k domestic? I thought shipment was 260k. No digital sales?
Overtracked?
 

Peace

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
978
France
Your expectations on the debut, you publicly wrote, were based on the perception you had about expectations about other users. In fact, no one predicted Labo would have been huge right away. Further, many sales-age users clearly said that Labo was a wild card and a softer debut was going to be expected being a new IP AND a new concept altogether.

No one is saying "Labo having amazing legs in the future"---again, straw-man argument. People said that being a new IP and a new concept + being targeted towards kids, Labo performance will be telling not now, not in one month but in a longer time-span. You are saying: "the game sold bad in its debut!"---people are saying "Labo performance should be judged in the long-run" by using data on products that were also new IPs and new concepts at that time.

Also, the fact that you were correct about MHW doesn't mean that anyone can make an argument against what you're saying. People tend to remember the right predictions while the, probably more numerous, wrong predictions. It's selective memory.

PS: btw, Labo Variey is currently n.1 on Amazon top sellers in Japan.

I don't want to offense anyone here, but I wasn't strictly speaking about users on the MC thread. When I mentioned the "users" in my first post, it was more of a general comment of the hype around Labo, not just on MC threads. In fact, I had the Labo reveal thread in mind when I made my first comment about it being a phenomenon, even if I noted that some people here toned-down their expectations a little with the recent report last week. Maybe I had one or two particular MC thread member in mind, but certainly not the majority. I don't blame anyone for being hyped about Labo success, it is an appealing product and something I also thought would open bigger than it did.

Now, I understand what people are saying to me : Labo should be judged on the long term. Still, do I have to buy mindlessly the fact that it will have good legs without doubts ? No. Does the fact that the majority of people in this thread are willing to wait until christmas to gauge the success of the product forbid me to judge its debut as being meh (imo) ? Again, the answer is no.

The part about my MHW predictions was there because I - wrongly - thought CW_Sasuke was speaking about me when he mentioned crazy expectations, it wasn't for anyone else and certainly not to forbid people to argue with me. I always like a good discussion, even a heated one, I wouldn't be here if I didn't. Now sure, some hostile people should be more humble and chill-out a little.

Not all kid-targeted new IPs had succeeded in the video gaming industry. But among those who had succeeded, you can clearly see a pattern, which is inherent of the fact that kids are slower adopters because they are less informed (fact #1), they don't have disposable income (fact #2), and they are influenced by peers much more than young adults (fact #3).

GB Pokémon Red / Green / Blue FW 140.074 / LTD 7.936.360
NDS Tomodachi Collection FW 100.371 / LTD 3.692.859
3DS Yo-kai Watch FW 52.901 / LTD 1.332.971
NDS Style Savvy FW 86.446 / LTD 891.076
PS1 Monster Farm FW 60.876 / LTD 729.063
NDS Inazuma Eleven FW 41.458 / LTD 401.820
PS1 Yu-Gi-Oh! Monster Capsule Breed & Battle FW 80.259 / LTD 255.490
NDS Fossil Fighters FW 39.666 / LTD 253.350
GB Medabots: Metabee Ver. / Rokusho Ver. FW 14.119 / LTD 226.191

Not saying Labo will succeed in the same way---just that we can't say whether it's a failure or not based on FW week. That is, FW numbers are not telling per se of the performance of the game. Now, Labo is also a new concept altogether so it's difficult to gauge market interest because being unproven it might break or not depending on WOM and actual usability.

I can't overlook your demonstration, we'll see if that translates into reality and if the comparison between typical video-games like the ones you mentioned and Labo stands in the future. Like I said, I'm not convinced myself, but only future will tell. I agree about the fact#2 being a factor, I'm more doubtful about fact#1 being a reality and fact#3 having a real impact of a product debut (Nintendo did promote Labo correctly and from I read/heard here and there, they had a good marketing campaign in Japan).

Yeah, it's funny how people overlook that, even this guy:

Children - and their young parents/parents/grand-parents that are willing to buy Labo for them - are a big part of the casual/mainstream audience, especially the one that haven't adopted the Switch in mass yet (again, according to Nintendo datas). Labo is clearly meant to attract the family into the Switch, either the young kids by Labo in itself or their parents - indirectly - because they now have a Switch at home thanks to their children craving for Labo.

Parents (male/women) from 25 to 50 and grand parents from 50 to x + their young children/grand-children (let's say from 3 to ~9) make a lot of people being the possible target for buying Labo. Labo isn't your hardcore niche product like an anime 2D fighter or Shin Megami Tensei and that was my point. A point I'm sure you've perfectly understand already, even without further explanations.
 
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Psycho_Mantis

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,965
I don't really see KH3 getting to 1m if Final Fantasy can barely get there these days. 700-800k probably more likely.

But hey, DQXI and MHW surpassed my expectations so I could very well be wrong on this, lol.

FFXV is not the best representation of FF imo. I expect FF7R to outsell it in Japan whenever it releases.
KH3 will do well in Japan as I think the reception will be great. Going with 800k for now.

WW KH3 will be massive. I think it will easily become the best selling KH game ever.

Chris1964 What are your thoughts on ARMS's sales? New IP in the fighting game genre reaching 400k going on 500k in about a years time in Japan vs Tekken 7 and SFV sales

ARMS domestics sales aren't the thing you should be focused on, just like NB and Capcom don't really worry about Tekken and SF domestic sales.

The money is overseas and ARMS is at 1.85 million shipped. Considering the team behind it, its clear why they may not be happy continuing with it.

[NSW] Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm Legacy for Nintendo Switch <FTG> (Bandai Namco Games) (¥6.800) - 30%

Ouch. Guessing the shipment here is low as well. Guessing most have already bought it on PS4/PS3.
 

Mpl90

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,215
Japanese Switch eShop Chart - April 27th, 2018, 11:13 GMT {2018.04.13 - 2018.04.27}

01. Minecraft: Nintendo Switch Edition (Mojang/Microsoft)
02. Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 (Bandai Namco)
03. Human Fall Flat (Curve) | 50% Off
04. Voxel Shot for Nintendo Switch (SAT-BOX)
05. Stardew Valley (Chucklefish)
06. Snack World Trejares: Gold (Level 5)
07. Kirby: Star Allies (Nintendo)
08. Splatoon 2 (Nintendo)
09. Overcooked! Special Edition (Team 17)
10. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (Nintendo)
11. Arcade Archives: Vs. Super Mario Bros. (Hamster)
12. Portal Knights (Spike Chunsoft)
13. SD Gundam G Generation Genesis for Nintendo Switch (Bandai Namco)
14. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (Nintendo)
15. Wild Guns: Reloaded (Natsume)
16. Resident Evil Revelations 2 (Capcom) | 33% Off
17. KORG Gadget for Nintendo Switch (DETUNE Ltd.)
18. UnEpic (Flyhigh Works)
19. Monster Hunter XX Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) | 33% Off
20. Super Mario Odyssey (Nintendo)
21. Neo Atlas 1469 (Artdink)
22. SnipperClips: Cut it out together! (Nintendo)
23. Dragon Quest X: All-in-one Package (Square Enix)
24. ACA NeoGeo: Real Bout Fatal Fury Special (Hamster)
25. Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm Trilogy (Bandai Namco)
26. Golf Story (Sidebar Games)
27. Rei-Jin-G-Lu-P (Dwango) | 33% Off
28. Dragon Fang Z (Toydea) | 20% Off
29. Ninja Striker! (Circle)
30. Manticore - Galaxy on Fire (Koch Media)
 

DrWong

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,098
ARMS domestics sales aren't the thing you should be focused on, just like NB and Capcom don't really worry about Tekken and SF domestic sales.

The money is overseas and ARMS is at 1.85 million shipped. Considering the team behind it, its clear why they may not be happy continuing with it.

I don't know if I have to still laugh, start to cry or to just use the "don"'t want to read you" feature. "Pas peur du ridicule" we say in French.
 

ggx2ac

Sales Heaven or Sales Hell?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,504
Children - and their young parents/parents/grand-parents that are willing to buy Labo for them - are a big part of the casual/mainstream audience, especially the one that haven't adopted the Switch in mass yet (again, according to Nintendo datas). Labo is clearly meant to attract the family into the Switch, either the young kids by Labo in itself or their parents - indirectly - because they now have a Switch at home thanks to their children craving for Labo.

Parents (male/women) from 25 to 50 and grand parents from 50 to x + their young children/grand-children (let's say from 3 to ~9) make a lot of people being the possible target for buying Labo. Labo isn't your hardcore niche product like an anime 2D fighter or Shin Megami Tensei and that was my point. A point I'm sure you've perfectly understand already, even without further explanations.

Nah, it looks like I need a few things further explained.

Children - and their young parents/parents/grand-parents that are willing to buy Labo for them - are a big part of the casual/mainstream audience

What's the difference between a 'young parent' and a 'parent', and how does that factor into who they are buying Labo for?

Parents (male/women) from 25 to 50 and grand parents from 50 to x + their young children/grand-children (let's say from 3 to ~9) make a lot of people being the possible target for buying Labo.

What is the relevance of the age of the parent who needs to buy Labo for their kid?

If Labo is dependent on the age of the child, why does it matter what the age of the parent is?

If the product is dependent on a user within a specific age range, in your example: Children aged 3-9,
how does that actually make the product target a broad demographic?

Children - and their young parents/parents/grand-parents that are willing to buy Labo for them - are a big part of the casual/mainstream audience

Let's remove parent from your quote here and put in adult.

Children - and adults aged 18+, it's the holidays and you want to get a gift for your niece, you buy the Labo Variety Kit and you give to your niece the Labo Variety Kit.

A few hours later one of your relatives aged 18+ arrives to give a gift to your niece, a Labo Variety Kit, but it turns out the niece already has one, what happens to that extra Variety Kit?

Now let's put parents back into this, you are a father and you are buying a Labo Variety Kit for your kid, you have bought the kit and given it to your kid. A few hours later your wife arrives home with a Labo Variety Kit but you already bought one, what happens to the extra Variety Kit?

So in both examples, you have to prevent a lost sale. The extra Labo Variety Kit will be returned to the store for a refund unless you can prove that Labo isn't dependent on kids.

If Labo is dependent on kids, then it's a product targeted towards kids which is a niche demographic because of the narrow age range.

If it isn't a product dependant on kids, then it has to be proven that an adult aged 18+ would want Labo for themselves and a parent without a kid to give Labo to is the same thing as being a single adult.

In short, for it to be a product that sells to a broad demographic, it has to be able to sell to any age range regardless of dependents.
 
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Charamiwa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,069


Apparently Dragalia Lost got 500k pre registrations since they opened. Don't know if that's good or not in Japanese mobile world.
 

ggx2ac

Sales Heaven or Sales Hell?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,504


Apparently Dragalia Lost got 500k pre registrations since they opened. Don't know if that's good or not in Japanese mobile world.


That's really good, it happened in less than a day.

They had milestones for per 100k registrations and it's already been achieved.

I can post ones from Forwardworks games that had much longer times that it took to reach even 400k registrations.
 

casiopao

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,044


Apparently Dragalia Lost got 500k pre registrations since they opened. Don't know if that's good or not in Japanese mobile world.


No wonder Cygames would had no problem partnering with Nintendo there. There is literally a gigantic Nintendo fanbase who just started moving out to mobile game with Mario, Fire Emblem and Animal Crossing.

By that fact alone, the hype for any mobile moves by Nintendo will be supported by its fanbase.^_^
 

Lite_Agent

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,572
Somewhere. I think.
Nintendo eShop Sales: April 19th to April 25th 2018

Nintendo eShop – Nintendo Switch

01./01. – Minecraft: Nintendo Switch Edition (Mojang) [12.5.2017]
02./10. – Voxel Shot for Nintendo Switch (SAT-BOX) [19.4.2018]
03./03. – Stardew Valley (Chucklefish) [12.1.2018]
04./New – Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm Trilogy (Bandai-Namco) [26.4.2018]
05./04. – Kirby Star Allies (Nintendo) [16.3.2018]
06./New – Wild Guns Reloaded (Natsume Atari) [19.4.2018]
07./New – Portal Knights (Spike-Chunsoft) [19.4.2018]

08./05. – Human: Fall Flat (Teyon Japan) [28.12.2017]
09./02. – The Snack World: Trejarers Gold (Level-5) [12.4.2018]
10./06. – Overcooked: Special Edition (Team17) [12.10.2017]
11./08. – Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (Nintendo) [28.4.2017]
12./07. – Splatoon 2 (Nintendo) [21.7.2017]
13./09. – Arcade Archives VS. Super Mario Bros. (Hamster) [22.12.2017]
14./New – ACA NeoGeo Real Bout Fatal Fury Special (Hamster) [19.4.2018]
15./New – Neo Atlas 1469 (Artdink Studio) [19.4.2018]
16./New – Ninja Striker! (Flyhigh Works) [19.4.2018]
17./New – Manticore - Galaxy on Fire (Koch Media) [19.4.2018]
18./New – SD Gundam G Generation Genesis (Bandai-Namco) [26.4.2018]

19./00. – DragonFangZ (Toydea) (currently on sale)
20./00. – Resident Evil Revelations 2 (Capcom) [28.11.2017] (currently on sale)

Nintendo eShop – Nintendo 3DS

01./01. – The Battle Cats POP (Ponos) [31.5.2015]
02./02. – Pokémon Crystal Version (Nintendo) [26.1.2018]
03./03. – Minecraft: New Nintendo 3DS Edition (Mojang) [14.9.2017]
04./08. – Detective Pikachu (The Pokémon Company) [23.3.2018]
05./04. – Ice Station Z (Wobbly Tooth) [05.4.2017]
06./05. – BattleminerZ (Wobbly Tooth) [17.1.2018]
07./06. – Bike Rider DX (Spicysoft) [26.12.2012]
08./New – Dragon Lapis (Kemco) [18.4.2018]
09./New – Sanrio Character Picross (Jupiter) [25.4.2018]

10./07. – Dragon Quest III (Square-Enix) [24.8.2017]

Nintendo eShop – Wii U

01./03. – Cube Life: Pixel Action Heroes (Teyon Japan) [09.8.2017] (currently on sale)
02./01. – Brain Age: Train Your Brain in Minutes a Day! / Dr. Kawashima's Brain Training: How Old Is Your Brain? (Nintendo, Virtual Console) [05.8.2015]
03./02. – Minecraft: Wii U Edition (Microsoft) [17.12.2015]
04./04. – Kirby Super Star (Nintendo, Virtual Console) [01.5.2013]
05./09. – Earthbound (Nintendo, Virtual Console) [27.4.2013]
06./10. – Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade (Nintendo, Virtual Console) [02.9.2015]
07./06. – Super Mario 64 (Nintendo, Virtual Console) [08.4.2015]
08./08. – Super Mario World (Nintendo, Virtual Console) [27.4.2013]
09./00. – Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards (Nintendo, Virtual Console) [19.8.2015]
10./07. – Kirby's Return to Dream Land / Kirby's Adventure Wii (Nintendo, Wii Download) [28.1.2015]

https://topics.nintendo.co.jp/c/article/c7556989-443c-11e8-b311-063b7ac45a6d.html

Important note: completely forgot about the Switch Top 20 last week, so the rank progression for the second half of the Top 20 this week may not be accurate.
 

Muu

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,976
Nah, it looks like I need a few things further explained.



What's the difference between a 'young parent' and a 'parent', and how does that factor into who they are buying Labo for?



What is the relevance of the age of the parent who needs to buy Labo for their kid?

If Labo is dependent on the age of the child, why does it matter what the age of the parent is?

If the product is dependent on a user within a specific age range, in your example: Children aged 3-9,
how does that actually make the product target a broad demographic?



Let's remove parent from your quote here and put in adult.

Children - and adults aged 18+, it's the holidays and you want to get a gift for your niece, you buy the Labo Variety Kit and you give to your niece the Labo Variety Kit.

A few hours later one of your relatives aged 18+ arrives to give a gift to your niece, a Labo Variety Kit, but it turns out the niece already has one, what happens to that extra Variety Kit?

Now let's put parents back into this, you are a father and you are buying a Labo Variety Kit for your kid, you have bought the kit and given it to your kid. A few hours later your wife arrives home with a Labo Variety Kit but you already bought one, what happens to the extra Variety Kit?

So in both examples, you have to prevent a lost sale. The extra Labo Variety Kit will be returned to the store for a refund unless you can prove that Labo isn't dependent on kids.

If Labo is dependent on kids, then it's a product targeted towards kids.

If it isn't a product dependant on kids, then it has to be proven that an adult aged 18+ would want Labo for themselves and a parent without a kid to give Labo to is the same thing as being a single adult.

In short, for it to be a product that sells to a broad demographic, it has to be able to sell to any age range regardless of dependents.

The product as designed is targeting kids. As with other building type products it can be enjoyed by all ages, but it's still kids that are the main target.

Product advertising is a mix of both. Make and Play as a TV commercial are intended to resonate with kids. You also have Labo camp video ads which are clearly targeted to parents/guardians — they're selling you on the idea of shared experiences with your kids.
 

Muu

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,976


Apparently Dragalia Lost got 500k pre registrations since they opened. Don't know if that's good or not in Japanese mobile world.


"Preregistration is open! With 500K preregistrations everyone gets 1500 MTXbux!"

No it has not been achieved yet. They'd make a far bigger deal about it if it had.
 

sfortunato

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,741
Italy
I don't want to offense anyone here, but I wasn't strictly speaking about users on the MC thread. When I mentioned the "users" in my first post, it was more of a general comment of the hype around Labo, not just on MC threads. In fact, I had the Labo reveal thread in mind when I made my first comment about it being a phenomenon, even if I noted that some people here toned-down their expectations a little with the recent report last week. Maybe I had one or two particular MC thread member in mind, but certainly not the majority. I don't blame anyone for being hyped about Labo success, it is an appealing product and something I also thought would open bigger than it did.

Now, I understand what people are saying to me : Labo should be judged on the long term. Still, do I have to buy mindlessly the fact that it will have good legs without doubts ? No. Does the fact that the majority of people in this thread are willing to wait until christmas to gauge the success of the product forbid me to judge its debut as being meh (imo) ? Again, the answer is no.

The part about my MHW predictions was there because I - wrongly - thought CW_Sasuke was speaking about me when he mentioned crazy expectations, it wasn't for anyone else and certainly not to forbid people to argue with me. I always like a good discussion, even a heated one, I wouldn't be here if I didn't. Now sure, some hostile people should be more humble and chill-out a little.

Then I suggest you to not form your own expectations based on a generic measure of "interest" in a gaming forum. Also, I'm pretty sure most of the people who commented in the Labo reveal thread don't follow sales and don't know how actually products targeted towards kids behave. In MC thread I never saw people saying Labo would have been huge right away.

You're using a straw-man argument: no one is saying that Labo will surely have legs. Everybody is saying that its FW debut doesn't tell much about its performance because it's not a product targeted towards core gamers that buy day-one and also Switch has yet to be adopted by a younger audience.

I can't overlook your demonstration, we'll see if that translates into reality and if the comparison between typical video-games like the ones you mentioned and Labo stands in the future. Like I said, I'm not convinced myself, but only future will tell. I agree about the fact#2 being a factor, I'm more doubtful about fact#1 being a reality and fact#3 having a real impact of a product debut (Nintendo did promote Labo correctly and from I read/heard here and there, they had a good marketing campaign in Japan).

You might be more doubtful but you can ask to everyone working in the toy industry. I'm not inventing anything. Kids are typically less informed because they don't read forums or news website. Also, kids tend to follow the peers as they adopt products their classmates/friends have. That's why those games sold so well in the long-run.

ARMS domestics sales aren't the thing you should be focused on, just like NB and Capcom don't really worry about Tekken and SF domestic sales.

The money is overseas and ARMS is at 1.85 million shipped. Considering the team behind it, its clear why they may not be happy continuing with it.

NB and Capcom had started to focus on Western markets because they had to. I'm pretty sure they cared a lot about domestic sales when Tekken and Street Fighter were million sellers in Japan alone (plus, arcade was a big market). That's true for virtually every company. There are some franchises that have sales more skewed towards the domestic market. Splatoon is an example. On Wii U, it sold half of its worldwide LTD in Japan. ARMS sold pretty well in Japan, but it still sold 75% of its total worldwide LTD overseas---and it might not be done yet.

Anyway, a question. Considering the following facts:
1. Nintendo had expected 10m Switch in FY17 + around 3m Switch sold during the launch month.
2. Forecasts are typically decided before games are released and while might be adjusted on-road resources are devoted based on preliminary forecasts.
3. Nintendo had always intention to launch Kart, Splatoon, Zelda and Odyssey during the first year.

Now, how much do you think Nintendo was going to realistically expect from ARMS given the 13m installed base up until March 31, 2018 and the internal competition from big guns...? You imply that Nintendo is not happy with the performance. ARMS shipped 1.81m units. Did they expect ARMS to sell, I don't know, 2m units on a 13m installed base (forecast when realistically ARMS went into full production)? So did they expect that 1 out of 6 Switch owners would have bought a new IP game in the fighting genre released between Mario Kart and Splatoon?
 

Muu

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,976
And just to make a sense of how insane 500K pre-registrations in a day would be:

Fate/Grand Order, now famous waifu game about your favorite characters in mythology, began pre-registration just as 2014 was ending.
https://app.famitsu.com/20141228_479478/

There's an announcement late June 2015 that pre-registration has surpassed 500K.
https://app.famitsu.com/20150629_539914/

Fate as a series has had long-standing support of a rabid fanbase, and the shitshow that would be the initial app launch had not yet affected these initial pre-registrars. You're insane if you think that a generic looking phone ARPG is going to hit that kind of number in this short of a timeframe.

Damn you google translate

I prefer Babelfish
 

Pokémon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,683
Why is the Variety Kit so much more popular than the Robot Kit? I would have thought that kids would opt for the Robot Kit since you know being able to play a robot in a game sounds cooler than playing the piano or fishing.
 

Peace

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
978
France
Then I suggest you to not form your own expectations based on a generic measure of "interest" in a gaming forum. Also, I'm pretty sure most of the people who commented in the Labo reveal thread don't follow sales and don't know how actually products targeted towards kids behave. In MC thread I never saw people saying Labo would have been huge right away.

You're using a straw-man argument: no one is saying that Labo will surely have legs. Everybody is saying that its FW debut doesn't tell much about its performance because it's not a product targeted towards core gamers that buy day-one and also Switch has yet to be adopted by a younger audience.

You can follow sales thread as much as you want, it doesn't make you smarter or more knowledgable than the people outside of those thread. Sales aren't an exact science, especially when it comes to a product like Labo. People expectations in this thread don't hold more value than the expectations of people outside, or at least, I don't filter them that way myself. I saw a lot of hype around a product, a good marketing campaign from Nintendo, I heard some stuff about how the japanese marketing campaign for Labo was on point, I expected it to open bigger than it did, that's all.

Let's also not forget something here. If Labo had opened with something like 500k right off the start, does that invalidate the fact that it would sell like a toy on the long term ? It could have open big AND sold on the long term. It's not like opening as low as 120k was mandatory. It's an overlooked argument.

About the "straw-man argument" regarding Labo legs :
This will be another evergreen title for Nintendo that will continue to sell, especially over holidays.

But for now, sales look fine and it's poised to continue to sell.

Nah, Labo is the type of product that will sell extremely well during the holidays. #evergreen garanteed

To a lesser extent :
This means that the product releases well before the holiday to garner word of mouth and to prove its value as a toy. Then, that word of mouth would translate into big sales during the holiday period when parents buy toys for their children. No one expected this to debut massively (no had any idea what it'd do, either), rather they expected the thing to launch reasonably (as it did) and then sell strongly as the holidays approach.

It's just two or three pages, I won't browse them all. To be clear, it's not the majority (I don't have the time to check), but let's not pretend I'm imagining things. Also, it can't be a straw-man argument when people are trying really hard to convince me the game have high chances to sell on the long term with long demonstrations and comparisons from a decade ago (you're part of them). Some people, like you, are actually convinced the game will have legs and I won't judge them for it, to each their own (I prefer to wait the two next weeks to judge), but don't play it like I'm imagining things.

You might be more doubtful but you can ask to everyone working in the toy industry. I'm not inventing anything. Kids are typically less informed because they don't read forums or news website. Also, kids tend to follow the peers as they adopt products their classmates/friends have. That's why those games sold so well in the long-run.

Forums and website aren't the only source of informations, a good marketing campaign can sell a product to a kid through many ways and I'm sure Nintendo did its work. I don't buy that japanese kids don't know about Labo yet, at least, I consider it only a possibility among others. It seems to me like you absolutely want to believe that kids don't know about Labo yet, which could explain the sales debuts number, but it's just a possibility. Another possibility is : they know about Labo because of the marketing campaign and the WOM that already been spread before the actual release and maybe they don't care about it as much as you would like them to ? How can you tell one possibility is more realistic than the other ? How can you tell the explanations isn't that the parents consider Labo as too fragile for their children for exemple ? Why do you only cater to the children not being informed enough ?

If the product is dependent on a user within a specific age range, in your example: Children aged 3-9,
how does that actually make the product target a broad demographic?

Because the child won't buy the toy himself, Labo targets the child AND his parents/grand-parent/whatever. Nintendo want the child to crave Labo and they also want the parents/whatever to be willing to buy it. You can't sell Labo without the two-part plan working. The target isn't only the child, it can't work that way.

Plus, if the mainstream/broad appeal part of the context I described really disturb you to this point, you can just consider that I think Labo has a much broader appeal than hardcore niche stuff like Shin Megami Tensei or 2D anime fighter and the point still stand. I'm sure there are a lot of children in Japan, even with its ageing population, much more than your typical niche market.

What's the difference between a 'young parent' and a 'parent', and how does that factor into who they are buying Labo for?

I don't know, age maybe ? It's seems obvious to me. Putting young-parents (20 to 25) and older parents (25 to 50) in the same bag doesn't sound right to me, especially when we're speaking about sales demographic. I separate them to show that parents are already a wide enough market in themselves to consider it a big part of the mainstream audience because you can have child from a very young age to a much older age, especially if you add grand-parents/aunt/uncle into the mix. Like I said above, you can't just target the child with Labo, you have to also target the adult who'll buy it for them, which make Labo targets a way much broader audience than just children. That plus the fact they're a lot of children in Japan (compared to a niche market like 2D anime fighters or SMT) makes a lot of potential buyer (adults) and user (children) as a target. Or at least, that's my take on it.

I won't answer all your questions because it's frankly quite a mess and I won't spend more time than you did writing it.
 
Last edited:
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
Why is the Variety Kit so much more popular than the Robot Kit? I would have thought that kids would opt for the Robot Kit since you know being able to play a robot in a game sounds cooler than playing the piano or fishing.

The Variety Kit has a bunch of cool software features.

The Robot Kit has like no gameplay depth whatsoever.
 

casiopao

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,044
Why is the Variety Kit so much more popular than the Robot Kit? I would have thought that kids would opt for the Robot Kit since you know being able to play a robot in a game sounds cooler than playing the piano or fishing.

More flexible. As it provide more things to children whether they are boys or girls while Robot is arguably specifically targeted to boys.
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,189
You can follow sales thread as much as you want, it doesn't make you smarter or more knowledgable than the people outside of those thread. Sales aren't an exact science, especially when it comes to a product like Labo. People expectations in this thread don't hold more value than the expectations of people outside, or at least, I don't filter them that way myself. I saw a lot of hype around a product, a good marketing campaign from Nintendo, I heard some stuff about how the japanese marketing campaign for Labo was on point, I expected it to open bigger than it did, that's all.

Let's also not forget something here. If Labo had opened with something like 500k right off the start, does that invalidate the fact that it would sell like a toy on the long term ? It could have open big AND sell on the long term. It's not like opening as low as 120k was mandatory.

About the "straw-man argument" regarding Labo legs :






To a lesser extent :


It's just two or three pages, I won't browse them all. To be clear, it's not the majority (I don't have the time to check), but let's not pretend I'm imagining things. Also, it can't be a straw-man argument when people are trying really hard to convince me the game have high chances to sell on the long term with long demonstrations and comparisons from a decade ago (you're part of them). Some people, like you, are actually convinced the game will have legs and I won't judge them for it, to each their own (I prefer to wait the two next weeks to judge), but don't play it like I'm imagining things.



Forums and website aren't the only source of informations, a good marketing campaign can sell a product to a kid through many ways and I'm sure Nintendo did its work. I don't buy that japanese kids don't know about Labo yet, at least, I consider it only a possibility among others. It seems to me like you absolutely want to believe that kids don't know about Labo yet, which could explain the sales debuts number, but it's just a possibility. Another possibility is : they know about Labo because of the marketing campaign and the WOM that already been spread before the actual release and maybe they don't care about it as much as you would like them to ? How can you tell one possibility is more realistic than the other ? How can you tell the explanations isn't that the parents consider Labo as too fragile for their children for exemple ? Why do you only cater to the children not being informed enough ?



Because the child won't buy the toy himself, Labo targets the child AND his parents/grand-parent/whatever. Nintendo want the child to want Labo, craving for it and they also want the parents/whatever to be willing to buy it. You can't sell Labo without the two-part plan working. The target isn't only the child, it can't work that way.

Plus, if the mainstream/broad appeal part of the context I described really disturb you to this point, you can just consider that I think Labo has a much broader appeal than hardcore niche stuff like Shin Megami Tensei or 2D anime fighter and the point still stand. I'm sure there are a lot of children in Japan, even with its ageing population, much more than your typical niche market.



I don't know, age maybe ? It's seems obvious to me. Putting young-parents (20 to 25) and older parents (25 to 50) in the same bag doesn't sound right to me, especially when we're speaking about sales demographic. I separate them to show that parents are already a wide enough market in themselves to consider it a big part of the mainstream audience because you can have child from a very young age to a much older age, especially if you add grand-parents/aunt/uncle into the mix. Like I said above, you can't just target the child with Labo, you have to also target the adult who'll buy it for them, which make Labo targets a way much broader audience than just children. Or at least, that's my take on it.

I won't answer all your questions because it's frankly quite a mess and I won't spend more time than you did writing it.
I really don't understand your argument here especially your 500k comment. The reason why people were expecting a release in that range wasn't arbitrary. The chances it would have launched at something like 500k was practically none existent. How many brand new toys do you think performs like that? How many brand new Ip's do you know performs like that? (dedicated console owners are far more likely to pre-order a product than your average toy buying family especially for more expensive products) Even new IPs that went on to have massive legs almost never performs like that.

Your talking about parents buying toys for kids the least likely demographic to pre-order an untested expensive product in large numbers. That's why people weren't expecting a launch like that the typical sales pattern for a toy doesn't conform to that so expecting 500k first week in a single region for a family orientated product is an entirely arbitrary prediction not based on anything.

Predictions are not an exact science but we have these things like probability distributions and historical performance. Outliers will always exist but the point is they're outliers they occur rarely.
 

MoonFrog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
"Giles Goddard worked at Nintendo for a number of years. He got his start being invovled with StarFox, and then eventually became an employee of Nintendo themselves. He worked for Nintendo up to the GameCube days, so he certainly put in some time with the comapny. In an intervienw with Eurogamer, Goddard discusses a number of elements about Nintendo, including their work style, working on Super Mario 64, and how he believes the company's focus has shifted.

EU: You have an image of Nintendo - or certainly I did - that it's like Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory, this magical world where all the games come from.

GG: No, it's a factory.

EU: Was there any sense of occasion, that you were doing something big?

GG: Never. We had this game, we had a schedule and we had to do it otherwise... Well, who knows what would happen.

EU: So there was no sense of magic?

GG: Not at all. I don't think there is now either. It's such a clinical, rigid way of working. It amazes me they get so much creativity out of that place, with Zelda and Mario. You go there and it's white, it's clinical cubicles and bells ringing for lunch and for going home and that's it. How they get any creativity out of that place is beyond me. But they do do it.

EU: The team you worked with - Miyamoto, Eguchi, Watanabe - what were they like?

GG: They were great to work with. The individuals at Nintendo were all really good people, extremely talented. There's nothing wrong with the people - it's just the culture that was so old school.

EU: You did the famous Mario 64 face at the start of Super Mario 64 - how did you get that asset, how were you allowed to do that?

GG: When we got the Indys, they came with a camera. I put ping pong balls on my face and I thought it'd be cool to use the camera to control the face. And the justification was to test out the skinning - at that point, if you had two joints they'd be two separate objects. There was no smoothing. That's what I was experimenting in - how to do skinning. And a good demonstration of that was the Mario face. If you have a boss there that's seen this iteration of skinning, of facial animation - it's dicking around with a purpose, it's progressive and it's new stuff.

EU: Mario seemed significant because of how it seemed to fix 3D gaming, with its camera and everything, almost overnight.

GG: It took more than a year to realise that that was actually a viable gaming mechanic. At that point, 3D was so experimental that even the Mario team were questioning whether it was the right thing to do. Should the camera do this and that? Are we right to do this?

There was shit like with Sega having patents on pressing buttons to change camera views, so there was that side of things - whether we were actually legally entitled to do this camera view. It'd be unheard of nowadays - can you have this view, because Sega had this view? So Sega patented that, and we wanted to have that on Star Fox, and legal said you can't do that because Sega patented that. And we had to find a way around the patent.

That era was so patent driven, so rigid in what you could do and couldn't do - it wasn't as free-form, so much of a wild west as people think it was. You had to work around a lot of stupid rules and legal stuff, and people not knowing whether 3D should be this way or that.

EU: Has Nintendo changed that much since?

GG: It's much the same. It did change a bit after Iwata-san passed away. Now it's very focussed on money. Iwata was adamant that their core philosophy should be on the game, not on the money. Now it's almost entirely the money, which does worry me a bit.

more here:
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...ho-smuggled-the-demoscene-into-super-mario-64

https://gonintendo.com/stories/307940-former-nintendo-employee-on-nintendo-s-clinical-rigid-work-sty



Interesting interview.

The last bit is sad. Sounds very much like who we thought Iwata was from the outside.
 

ggx2ac

Sales Heaven or Sales Hell?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,504
Because the child won't buy the toy himself, Labo targets the child AND his parents/grand-parent/whatever. Nintendo want the child to crave Labo and they also want the parents/whatever to be willing to buy it. You can't

I showed with my example that you didn't bother answering. Anyone can buy a kid Labo, it doesn't mean Labo requires a parent to actually buy the product, you can buy it for your niece because you are not the target audience. The target audience is kids.

Plus, if the mainstream/broad appeal part of the context I described really disturb you to this point, you can just consider that I think Labo has a much broader appeal than hardcore niche stuff like Shin Megami Tensei or 2D anime fighter and the point still stand. I'm sure there are a lot of children in Japan, even with its ageing population, much more than your typical niche market.

That's great, I'm not talking about broad appeal. You had two posts where one was, "Labo targets children", which is a niche demographic and has had ads targeting them. And one which was, "Labo targets mainstream and casual audiences" to which I ask, where are the ads with a hip female college student making a Robot Kit with her friends?

I don't know, age maybe ? It's seems obvious to me. Putting young-parents (20 to 25) and older parents (25 to 50) in the same bag doesn't sound right to me, especially when we're speaking about sales demographic. I separate them to show that parents are already a wide enough market in themselves to consider it a big part of the mainstream audience because you can have child from a very young age to a much older age, especially if you add grand-parents/aunt/uncle into the mix. Like I said above, you can't just target the child with Labo, you have to also target the adult who'll buy it for them, which make Labo targets a way much broader audience than just children. That plus the fact they're a lot of children in Japan (compared to a niche market like 2D anime fighters or SMT) makes a lot of potential buyer (adults) and user (children) as a target. Or at least, that's my take on it.

So you don't know what you're talking about and couldn't put up a convincing argument for why the age of a parent should matter for buying a kid Labo, for who it is for. Thanks.

I won't answer all your questions because it's frankly quite a mess and I won't spend more time than you did writing it.

Don't worry, it's just making it more easier for me to find holes in your arguments.
 
OP
OP
Chris1964

Chris1964

SalesEra Genius
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,155
ARMS promotion was 90% tied with Switch hardware. Being close to the launch, ARMS was advertised alongside the console---ads would happen anyway. Also, Nintendo forecasted 14m Switch during the first fiscal year, IIRC. How much they were going to expect from ARMS initially? 2m seems already a lot, considering being a new IP and with a lot of competition.
From the moment Nintendo decided to stop roster updates for Arms and focus on Pokken instead it's clear they expected more. 2m isn't any magic number for a game on Switch from Mario Kart team and comparisons with a game that bombed and another that is a shadow of the past won't make Nintendo invest more if they see there are better ways to spend resources.
 

Muu

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,976
More flexible. As it provide more things to children whether they are boys or girls while Robot is arguably specifically targeted to boys.

Hey my daughter loves robots! And dinosaurs!

There's a show on Netflix called Dino-Trux that looks completely like a boy's show. My daughter's a bit squeamish about even mild amounts of cartoon violence, but loves the show for its other hook -- building a bunch of crazy contraptions to solve problems such as being stranded, fighting scraptors, etc. It'd be nice if Labo games tried to be a bit more multi-faceted -- you don't need to go full-on girly to appeal to girls as well.

I don't know, age maybe ? It's seems obvious to me. Putting young-parents (20 to 25) and older parents (25 to 50) in the same bag doesn't sound right to me, especially when we're speaking about sales demographic. I separate them to show that parents are already a wide enough market in themselves to consider it a big part of the mainstream audience because you can have child from a very young age to a much older age, especially if you add grand-parents/aunt/uncle into the mix. Like I said above, you can't just target the child with Labo, you have to also target the adult who'll buy it for them, which make Labo targets a way much broader audience than just children. That plus the fact they're a lot of children in Japan (compared to a niche market like 2D anime fighters or SMT) makes a lot of potential buyer (adults) and user (children) as a target. Or at least, that's my take on it.

I won't answer all your questions because it's frankly quite a mess and I won't spend more time than you did writing it.

20-25 and 25-50? That's a very odd set of age ranges to classify parents as young or old.

That said, I believe I posted this above but the product itself targets children. The advertising, on the other hand, targets both children (make, play ads) and adults (discover, labo camp footage showing family interaction time). You are correct that there are multiple demographics being targeted but that's strictly in terms of product marketing. It's important to make this distinction, because in any form of media, entertainment, toys, etc you can have different combination of these kinds of efforts, and shows the kind of sales strategy they're employing.

  • Kamen Rider and Sentai/power ranger series make use of good looking male talent, because the intention is to convince Japanese mothers to watch with their kids -- this is important in Japan where households often only have 1 TV.
  • Precure series have 20-30 something males as their subtarget, likely continuously achieved by keeping their anime look more in line w/ adult-oriented shows than simpler stuff for kids, decent fight choreography, story, etc.
  • STEM toys in general target the parents in their marketing -- Robots "help teach your kids code," codeapillars "help your kids learn logic," etc etc etc. The toys themselves are stupid light flashers that have just the bare minimum of customizability.
 

Peace

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
978
France
So you don't know what you're talking about and couldn't put up a convincing argument for why the age of a parent should matter for buying a kid Labo, for who it is for. Thanks.

The "I don't know" you bolded was sarcastic, as you would have understand if you had read the next ten words. I won't insist, but yeah... at least try to be humble.

Don't worry, it's just making it more easier for me to find holes in your arguments.

"Find holes in your arguments", like you're on a mission or something ? Anyway, don't overstimate yourself, the only holes that exist here are the one present in your education. You should seriousely behave a little.

1 - From all the people I discussed here you're probably the worst at arguing.
2 - You seem to have some really bad behavior problem.

I'm sure you'll understand if I don't answer to you anymore in the future, it seems I already gave you much more attention than you deserve.

20-25 and 25-50? That's a very odd set of age ranges to classify parents as young or old.

I wrote older, not old (that would have been mean, I agree).
 
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sfortunato

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,741
Italy
From the moment Nintendo decided to stop roster updates for Arms and focus on Pokken instead it's clear they expected more. 2m isn't any magic number for a game on Switch from Mario Kart team and comparisons with a game that bombed and another that is a shadow of the past won't make Nintendo invest more if they see there are better ways to spend resources.

Maybe but given initial Switch sales forecasts I'm skeptical Nintendo was expecting 2m+ during the fiscal year. It would have meant an adoption rate of around 1/6---pretty high expectations considering it was releasing in June, sandwiched between Mario Kart and Splatoon. It might be that initial plans were to update the game up until the end of 2017 and move the team on something else. Or maybe release a sequel in a couple of years instead of pushing DLC. I don't know but I'm skeptical Nintendo would have expected much more from a new IP in the fighting genre during the first year on a tiny installed base.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,617
First Day Sell-through {2018.04.26}

[PS4] Jikkyou Powerful Pro Baseball 2018 <SPT> (Konami) (¥7.980) - 50%
[PSV] Jikkyou Powerful Pro Baseball 2018 <SPT> (Konami) (¥6.980) - 50%

[PS4] Utawarerumono: Chiriyukusha e no Komoriuta # <SLG> (Aqua Plus) (¥6.800) - 50%
[PSV] Utawarerumono: Chiriyukusha e no Komoriuta # <SLG> (Aqua Plus) (¥6.800) - 50%

[NSW] SD Gundam G Generation Genesis for Nintendo Switch <SLG> (Bandai Namco Games) (¥6.800) - 30%

[NSW] Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm Legacy for Nintendo Switch <FTG> (Bandai Namco Games) (¥6.800) - 30%

Rayman Land

[3DS] Dillon's Dead-Heat Breakers <ACT> (Nintendo) (¥4.980) - less than 10%
Dillon got a retail release? Rip
 

ggx2ac

Sales Heaven or Sales Hell?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,504
"Find holes in your arguments", like you're on a mission or something ? Anyway, don't overstimate yourself, the only holes that exist here are the one present in your education. You should seriousely behave a little.

1 - From all the people I discussed here you're probably the worst at arguing.
2 - You seem to have some really bad behavior problem.

I'm sure you'll understand if I don't answer to you anymore in the future, it seems I already gave you much more attention than you deserve.

You should take your own advice below because you're the one that looks to be hot and bothered that you resort to personal attacks as pointed out by the mod in the thread.

I always like a good discussion, even a heated one, I wouldn't be here if I didn't. Now sure, some hostile people should be more humble and chill-out a little.
 

Aters

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,948
Nintendo didn't want ARMS to be another Splatoon, at least in terms of sales. They wouldn't have released the game between Mario Kart and Splatoon itself. They knew it was a fighting game so overall a much more difficult genre to sell. I still don't think Nintendo expected much more from ARMS.

Nintendo was expecting to sell, how much, 14m units in the first fiscal year? Plans for ARMS were detailed given this hardware expectations. The game is close to 2m. Was really Nintendo expecting ARMS to sell more on a 14m installed base given the competition from Kart, Odyssey, Zelda and Splatoon? If they expected more than 2m from ARMS, how much they would have expected from Splatoon? 8m?
Like all GaaS titles, Nintendo plan to sell it well after first year. That's why it has such an early release date. Splatoon didn't have the best launch either.

The kind of spotlight ARMS got is not what a 2nd-tier 2M seller would get. Nintendo know fighting games are hard sellers, sure, but they still decided to give it a crack. It's not like platforming games sell so well outside Mario. Fighter is perfect for GaaS, that's why Nintendo wanted to give it a try.

What's worrying is not that ARMS only sold 2M so far, it's that it doesn't seem to sell now.
 
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DarkDetective

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,906
The Netherlands
First Day Sell-through {2018.04.26}

[PS4] Jikkyou Powerful Pro Baseball 2018 <SPT> (Konami) (¥7.980) - 50%
[PSV] Jikkyou Powerful Pro Baseball 2018 <SPT> (Konami) (¥6.980) - 50%

[PS4] Utawarerumono: Chiriyukusha e no Komoriuta # <SLG> (Aqua Plus) (¥6.800) - 50%
[PSV] Utawarerumono: Chiriyukusha e no Komoriuta # <SLG> (Aqua Plus) (¥6.800) - 50%

[NSW] SD Gundam G Generation Genesis for Nintendo Switch <SLG> (Bandai Namco Games) (¥6.800) - 30%

[NSW] Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm Legacy for Nintendo Switch <FTG> (Bandai Namco Games) (¥6.800) - 30%

Rayman Land

[3DS] Dillon's Dead-Heat Breakers <ACT> (Nintendo) (¥4.980) - less than 10%
Decent percentages imo. Rip Dillon, but I kind of expected that already.