DSA from my observations have become a lot more radical recently. The editor of Jacobin is one of their national leaders. And at the last conference they voted to disaffrilate from the godawful second internationale.
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Looks like Jentzen will lose but
looks like they can bitch
apparently the state dems didn't help his campaign at all either
looks like they can bitch
apparently the state dems didn't help his campaign at all either
Jabari Brisport, the DSA-endorsed NY City Council candidate I canvassed for in Crown Heights, lost. Not exactly surprising given that he's a Green Party candidate running against a Dem incumbent, but 30% is at least better than I might have expected.
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I'm still more impressed with the work - Kwasha Sawant from Socialist Alternative has done more than any of the Socialist councillor's I've seen in the United States. Although I politically don't really agree with their tendency and have issues.
This bodes well for what I've been hoping the DSA could be, which is a pressure force at many levels of hierarchy, especially state house
OP
OP
Who else was there? I was only really paying attention to the VA and NJ races.
edit: stupid me didnt even think about looking at DSA's Twitter
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I typed communism on news today, the conservatives are working a lot on anti communism lately
Even Trump:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/11/07/national-day-victims-communism
Their goal is quite clear, the criminalization of communism, or to destroy It moraly that you cant even talk about It, lots of people end the discussion of communism with "the communism killed billions".
Also another point its the comparison to nazism, there's a wide spreaded false relativism that nazism is as bad as communism, or worse since communism killed more.
This ultimately has the objective to weaken the communists, or the acceptance of the labours that reformism is the maximum possible in the world, and capitalism as the only possible model, with that you Destroy the only real menace to the 1% owners of the world.
I know you guys already know this, but i had to talk, lol.
Even Trump:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/11/07/national-day-victims-communism
Their goal is quite clear, the criminalization of communism, or to destroy It moraly that you cant even talk about It, lots of people end the discussion of communism with "the communism killed billions".
Also another point its the comparison to nazism, there's a wide spreaded false relativism that nazism is as bad as communism, or worse since communism killed more.
This ultimately has the objective to weaken the communists, or the acceptance of the labours that reformism is the maximum possible in the world, and capitalism as the only possible model, with that you Destroy the only real menace to the 1% owners of the world.
I know you guys already know this, but i had to talk, lol.
Has anyone read "October" by China Mieville? Thoughts? I'm reading "The Empire Must Die" (Mikhail Zygar), it's pretty entertaining but ultimately flawed. Zygar, the journalist who created Project1917 (mentioned in this thread), is too focused on drawing parallels to modern day Russian politics for the book to succeed as a chronicle of 1900-1917.
The most famous is:
Ten days that shook the world by John Reed
There's also
The History of Russian revolution wrote by Trotsky
Ten days that shook the world by John Reed
There's also
The History of Russian revolution wrote by Trotsky
Communism has always been a forbidden idea in the west. It was often used as justification for imperialist expansions by the west too. So I'm not surprised by the public display of condemnation.
Socialism is a scary word too. Many were downright scared of the crazy world the "socialist" Sanders could create when in reality what he was proposing was far more in lines with a new deal like structure.
This revisionist history going around to excuse the evils of nazism by instead pointing to communism is worrisome. I see comments like "I'd rather be a freaking nazi than a murderous communist!" way too often. It's blatantly obvious why it's being done but still worrisome none the less.
Edit: Not to mention the US and UK's indirect support of South Africa's Apartheid government during the angola wars simply because the opposition had communistic/socialistic ideologies show me exactly where the prioroties lie. To them a government that believed in racial purity and segregation was the lesser of two evils.
Socialism is a scary word too. Many were downright scared of the crazy world the "socialist" Sanders could create when in reality what he was proposing was far more in lines with a new deal like structure.
This revisionist history going around to excuse the evils of nazism by instead pointing to communism is worrisome. I see comments like "I'd rather be a freaking nazi than a murderous communist!" way too often. It's blatantly obvious why it's being done but still worrisome none the less.
Edit: Not to mention the US and UK's indirect support of South Africa's Apartheid government during the angola wars simply because the opposition had communistic/socialistic ideologies show me exactly where the prioroties lie. To them a government that believed in racial purity and segregation was the lesser of two evils.
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It's too late for the old guard, the youth of America is already too seduced by radical communism to give it up now. The Red Menace has finally won by appealing to those damnStarbucks-drinking, podcast-listening, gender-bending, vegan, coastal elitist millennials.
I feel like they really could have put in the little bit of effort maintain some semblance of logical validity within a few paragraphs.
Anyway, this is a fun thing. I don't know how much you guys might care about the first episode, but the next one is about transit with the leader of the NDP, Jagmeet Singh, and Doug Ford.
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OP
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So I believe, unless I've made some errors here, after last night we are up to 24 confirmed (?) self-declared socialists who are elected/serving now.
Bernie Sanders - Indep Senator, Vermont
Pat Noble - SP USA Red Bank Regional High School BoE member
Kshama Sawant - Socialist Alternative Seattle city council member
Mike Sylvester - DSA Maine state legislator
Julie Ann Nitsch - DSA Austin, TX community college trustee
Carlos Rosa - DSA Chicago, IL Alderman
Dylan Parker - DSA Rock Island, IL city council member
khalid kamau - DSA South Fulton, GA city council member
Lee Carter - DSA VA HoD member
Seema Singh Perez - DSA Knoxville, TN city council member
JT Scott - DSA Somerville, MA Alderman
Ben Ewen-Campen - DSA Somerville, MA Alderman
Charles Decker - DSA New Haven, CT Alderman
Anita Prizio - DSA Allegheny county council district 3 member
Mik Pappas - DSA Pittsburgh, PA district justice
Kara Gloe - DSA Moorhead, MN school board
Tristan Rader - DSA Lakewood, OH city council
Brian Nowak - DSA Cheektowaga, NY town council
Denise Joy - DSA Billings, MT city council
Vanessa Agueldo - DSA Peekskill, NY city council
Scott Alberts - DSA Upper Darby, PA treasurer
Joel Sipress - DSA Duluth, MN city council
Justin Farmer - DSA Hamden, CT town council
Ross Grooters - DSA Pleasant Hill, IA city council
Bernie Sanders - Indep Senator, Vermont
Pat Noble - SP USA Red Bank Regional High School BoE member
Kshama Sawant - Socialist Alternative Seattle city council member
Mike Sylvester - DSA Maine state legislator
Julie Ann Nitsch - DSA Austin, TX community college trustee
Carlos Rosa - DSA Chicago, IL Alderman
Dylan Parker - DSA Rock Island, IL city council member
khalid kamau - DSA South Fulton, GA city council member
Lee Carter - DSA VA HoD member
Seema Singh Perez - DSA Knoxville, TN city council member
JT Scott - DSA Somerville, MA Alderman
Ben Ewen-Campen - DSA Somerville, MA Alderman
Charles Decker - DSA New Haven, CT Alderman
Anita Prizio - DSA Allegheny county council district 3 member
Mik Pappas - DSA Pittsburgh, PA district justice
Kara Gloe - DSA Moorhead, MN school board
Tristan Rader - DSA Lakewood, OH city council
Brian Nowak - DSA Cheektowaga, NY town council
Denise Joy - DSA Billings, MT city council
Vanessa Agueldo - DSA Peekskill, NY city council
Scott Alberts - DSA Upper Darby, PA treasurer
Joel Sipress - DSA Duluth, MN city council
Justin Farmer - DSA Hamden, CT town council
Ross Grooters - DSA Pleasant Hill, IA city council
Hey y'all, I'm not a socialist but I've been meaning to do some more reading about it so I appreciate the thread. Also wanted to chime in and say that it was interesting to learn in my history course this sem that the U.S. in the early 20th century showed sizable political support for socialism with a few towns electing socialist mayors and Eugene Debs getting close to under a million votes in an election.
It's going to be necessary when automation makes 30-50% of the population completely unemployable within the coming decades.
I think it's necessary right now.
Glad to see some countries at least trying pilot schemes.
I am skeptical because it might be co-opted by libertarians & liberals to be used to dismantle welfare systems because "now people have their own income, so "we" don't need to pay for societal "services"" and thus you get even more privatization.
It also might propagate a neoliberal ideology by individualizing societal responsibilities by saying that each person now has their own basic income, so they are now free to do whatever they want with that money and responsible for their own individual well-being (as neoliberal subjects).
But it's a good idea, but with how flexible and efficient capitalism is in co-opting and appropriating human existence and phenomena, I fear that this policy could be co-opted and transformed into the benefit of capitalism.
Yeah I agree it's necessary now. I think automation is going to kick the legs out from under a few countries before they realize it's necessity.
Yeah. It's gonna get ugly.
I'm not looking forward to living through that one bit.
Agreed. I know I'm watching the Ontario pilot program with some degree of hope.
I share these fears myself. At the moment I think that even if capitalism stalls things out, the new status quo would nonetheless lift many out of poverty and make a beach-head for further socialist initiatives (like workplace democratization and worker ownership). They can't stall forever.
Being a "socialist" doesn't matter. What matters is being proletarian and, if you're not, that you're not a reactionary.
"Socialism" isn't an identity. It's a political and revolutionary process.
But this is true. The Soviet Union and Nazi Germany were practicing joint military operations and trade partners from 1939 until Germany invaded.
People like it because it sounds nicer than "minimum wage". But that's what it is. It isn't Socialist in any way shape or form.
I was Reading this again Just now, i think its Worth sharing
Comrade Albert Einstein
https://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism
Another quote
Comrade Albert Einstein
https://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism
Yeah man, that sucks to see it repeated over and over on this thread.
The nazi persecuted and killed communists and leftist sympathizers in Germany and Poland from the start.
The URSS didn't acted promptly because of a historic mistake of hoping that Germany was -- sooner then later -- staging a communist revolution by itself and by thinking that the fascist party were a "lesser evil" when compared to the imperialistic western-liberalism.
Both are mistakes in its political readings, of course (and I would even argue that the latter weren't a mistake, we just need to look at Africa, middle-east and south america to see how evil and dehumanizing western-imperialism has been). But to say that the URSS were close allies with the Nazi German is just parroting some Trotskyist non-sense and to succumb to the anti-soviet liberal propaganda.
That, as we all should know, the US helped spread after the 60's (https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP86S00588R000300380001-5.PDF)
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How i see:
Soviet Union was not that strong, they are still recovering from the civil war, its good to remember that in that war they fought against troops from us, italy, UK, France, canada, greece etc etc
So they arent ready for war, and all the world wanted to destroy them not so long Ago, a non agression pact with nazi germany would give time for them in the war thats arriving.
Also the antikomintern pact was signed before the molotov pact, so they wanted to fuck each other sometime down the Road when they signed the pact.I Think its wrong to call It an aliance.
From what i remember Stalin wanted to replicate the russian revolution formula in germany, state weak by the war, radicalization of the people against the government etc.
If someone that Studied this wants to correct me in something be my guest, im here to learn too, im not an expert in this front.
Also Stalin still sucks, but i dont think Thats why he sucks.
Soviet Union was not that strong, they are still recovering from the civil war, its good to remember that in that war they fought against troops from us, italy, UK, France, canada, greece etc etc
So they arent ready for war, and all the world wanted to destroy them not so long Ago, a non agression pact with nazi germany would give time for them in the war thats arriving.
Also the antikomintern pact was signed before the molotov pact, so they wanted to fuck each other sometime down the Road when they signed the pact.I Think its wrong to call It an aliance.
From what i remember Stalin wanted to replicate the russian revolution formula in germany, state weak by the war, radicalization of the people against the government etc.
If someone that Studied this wants to correct me in something be my guest, im here to learn too, im not an expert in this front.
Also Stalin still sucks, but i dont think Thats why he sucks.
They actively provided military training and material goods to the fascist war machine. They instructed international parties to halt agitation against fascist enemies. They actively planned a joint invasion of Poland together.
No amount of excuses here. Stalin actively collaborated with fascism until the fascists betrayed him.
This is not "anti Communist propaganda". It is historical truth. Stalin is not synonymous with Communism and his faults are his own. This is one of them.
And before the Nazis started killing communists and leftists in Eastern Europe it was Stalin.
Garbage pseudo revolutionary phrase mongering.
No amount of excuses here. Stalin actively collaborated with fascism until the fascists betrayed him.
This is not "anti Communist propaganda". It is historical truth. Stalin is not synonymous with Communism and his faults are his own. This is one of them.
And before the Nazis started killing communists and leftists in Eastern Europe it was Stalin.
Garbage pseudo revolutionary phrase mongering.
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Hey so I consider myself extreme left for the US and I think we need to take a lot more influence from socialism but I had to take a step back the other night after Carter won and some DSA woman said we need to asbolish prisons and the police. Uh, is that a common DSA viewpoint? Cause the US police and prison systems are garbage and are in need of major reform but that sounded like crazy talk to me.
You're not an extreme leftist.
The DSA are generally milquetoast Liberals, if they're too radical for ya, well...
Extreme leftist in the current US climate. I'm sure I align with almost all of the DSA's positions but is the complete abolishment of prisdons and police a common viewpoint among them? What exactly is supposed to replace them.
Prison abolition is a movement that is not extreme in any sense and people within it are actually quite sensible. I highly suggest reading Bill Ayer's "Demand the Impossible! A Radical Manifesto" where he outlines exactly why prison abolition is a rational and sensible thing to strive for. The Lit Review podcast had an absolutely wonderful podcast interview with Ayers that I highly, highly recommend listening to - Ayers is so wonderful to listen to.
Then if you are interested, read the important work by prison abolition activists here for example: https://jacobinmag.com/2017/08/prison-abolition-reform-mass-incarceration
(Mariama Kaba on Twitter is absolutely essential voice to listen to look up @prisonculture).
And then there's the prison abolition syllabus if you want to dive further into the topic and perhaps even do some local activism depending on where you are situated: http://www.aaihs.org/prison-abolition-syllabus/
I have tremendous respect for the prison abolition movement, and honestly they're the movement I think other transformative political movements in the US should look to as structural role models. They seem to recognize that any real movement has to be comprehensively extensive geographically, hierarchically, and temporally; they aim to exert pressure everywhere
I just read that article and most arguments are about things I support and yet they still maintain that they want to end prisons entirely at the end of it all? There are dem soc countries that still have prisons because they are necessary in certain instances. Edit:I oppose for-profit prisons, I oppose prison/slave labor, I oppose capital punishment and I oppose harsh punishments for non violent drug offenders and in general think proper rehab is more preferable.
I also think no police force is laughable but I can understand the thought that the US police needs to be abolished and then re-instated which is much more reasonable, but still would probably never happen and would cause a pretty chaotic year or so
I also think no police force is laughable but I can understand the thought that the US police needs to be abolished and then re-instated which is much more reasonable, but still would probably never happen and would cause a pretty chaotic year or so
"Abolished and then reinstated in a massively decreased capacity" is what most prison abolitionists, in my experience, actually have as their goals. Like, no-one really thinks if we catch someone who performs a mass shooting rehabilitative justice is on the table, that person probably just needs to be out of society. But our prisons are stuffed with people who either shouldn't be there or who we could be actually rehabilitating in other, less inhumane ways
Yeah that's a pretty different end goal than what I had been getting before. I just don't see how they would plan to handle the complicated transitional period. But at least I agree with the ideal here instead of what I gleaned from Twitter lol
See to me this reads like horseshoe theory libertarian type stuff that I would never personally be down with.
And defending the police and the state is a reactionary and right wing position.
So this is one of those things that I get in theory, but I still haven't quite gotten onboard with. The way people usually describe complete police replacement systems are via local volunteers on a rotation, but I'm still very concerned about how the self-selection process of volunteering could create similar personnel problems to what we see currently, and more broadly how highly local solutions that rely on community intimacy scale up to large urban populations
Community intimacy isn't inherently incompatible with dense populations.
You can volunteer but a volunteer police force is still a police force. A community handling its own affairs would do so organically and democratically.