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Should we move to a new OT after E3?

  • Yes

    Votes: 412 47.9%
  • No

    Votes: 95 11.0%
  • Wait for the Playstation 5

    Votes: 354 41.1%

  • Total voters
    861
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Deleted member 1326

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,965
Anyone got email like this they gave survey for my 3 yr anniversary of ps4 thing asking what you want from ps4 and psn and rate experiences in many aspects etc i just filled it out

screenshot_20180502-0gmu5b.jpg
Huh, I did not. Would you share what questions they asked?
I remember one of those from years ago and it was cool there were some features people could rate how important it was for them.
I remember there was name changes and PS classics in it.
 

ApeEscaper

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,720
Bangladeshi
Huh, I did not. Would you share what questions they asked?
I remember one of those from years ago and it was cool there were some features people could rate how important it was for them.
I remember there was name changes and PS classics in it.
I tried clicking on the survey again they sent to my email now it says link invalid maybe because i already done and submitted it it was mainly asking and rating many aspects of ps network and ps4 and allowed me to have my say on many parts and why i didnt find some stuff satisfactory etc and one question was what consoles and pc i own etc eh dont think its too important likely just random surveys sent to people who played on the ps4 consistently for 3 years
 

Henrik

Member
Jan 3, 2018
1,607
I hope no more knack. the concept is just bad. and the games are mediocre. just don't make them at all or give them to a small 3rd party studio. waste of time for a talented studio like sony japan
Mark Cerny is to blame for Knack. He is behind the concept and story of the IP.
https://youtu.be/LqMkQostWhI

His job was to get a Japanese team to work together because JS had problems to communicate and they were lacking the structure Japanese people are known for.
https://kotaku.com/how-sonys-most-creative-studio-rose-from-the-ashes-1458030068

Gavin Moore faced the same problems when the core team for Puppeteer grew bigger. At first they were 14 people in concept and prototyping stage as he talked about at GDC 2014. They brought in more staff in the last year and were 65 people. What he did was to make them into small teams and they had a review every second week. He wanted his staff to break out from that box "Gavin is God, obey him" to "this is not Gavin's game, this is our team's game". He worked hard for that craftmanship and when it finally started to click, the staff didn't no longer talking with their team only, they even started to communicate with the core team. Gavin was impressed, it was amazing to see, especially for a Japanese team.

2011~2013 were hard times for JS. Toyama didn't faced the same problems because he had a small team for Vita but when he increased staff for GR2 who came from Puppeteer and outside of that he was used to lead a team. We got GR2 on PS4 quite fast.

As time went on and JS had learn about structure Becker hired more and more staff. He wants JS to produce more titles than they did in the past. Outsourcing to other studios it's harder for Shu and others to playtest it. People here are saying JS should outsource when that was exactly what they did in the PS2 and PS3 days.

http://m.ign.com/articles/2017/06/30/how-playstationas-japan-studio-stands-out-a-ign-first
"At Japan Studio I think we have a lot of talented people, but for whatever reason I think we fell behind in terms of technology, and that started way back in the PS2 days and PS3," he said. "Japan Studio wasn't producing that many titles. And so with PS4, we're really starting to build the technology back up."

He wants JS to be more involved with game development so the staff learns from that experience and can improve for the next game and become better. Knack 2 may be a shit game but the staff got to learn about varied things like in-game cinematic, QTE, etc that could be useful for a better game.

https://blog.us.playstation.com/201...udio-allan-becker-speaks-to-playstation-blog/

PlayStation.Blog: How has JAPAN Studio changed in the last two or three years?
Allan Becker: We have become better focused and better prepared to compete in a fast and ever changing industry. The Studio is more open to new technologies and ideas and willing to grasp those opportunities when they come along. But at the heart JAPAN Studio still retains its core ideal to make creative, novel and imaginative titles.

PSB: More generally speaking, how do you choose which studios to collaborate with?
AB:
The key has less to do with the studios but which creative individual we wish to collaborate with. They are the one that we will work with, sometimes on a daily basis. So it is important to choose someone who has the same mindset as we do.


Miyazaki and FromSoftware have been an exception to that rule on PS4. FromSoftware has a good reputation and is a quite large studio. If we mention Shift and GenDESIGN for example they didn't really produced the title they were the creative force for the game. Behind concept, game design and story. GenDESIGN is around 14 people and Shift was 18 people on Freedom Wars (whilst the dev team worked on GE2) as Dimps produced it when JS was lacking staff and team structure at the time.

It depends on projects how Becker look at them. Oreshika series was produced by Alfa System and created/directed by Shoji Matsuda.
 

Ricky_R

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,997
Knack 3 is a no-brainer.

You don't release two consecutive GOTYs and don't finish up the trilogy.
 

v_iHuGi

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,155
RaySpace is a terrible name dear lord if it's a Triple A called that and it's announced at E3 I'll broke my TV.
 

npclivesmatter

Banned for use of alt account
Banned
Apr 18, 2018
274
Mark Cerny is to blame for Knack. He is behind the concept and story of the IP.
https://youtu.be/LqMkQostWhI

His job was to get a Japanese team to work together because JS had problems to communicate and they were lacking the structure Japanese people are known for.
https://kotaku.com/how-sonys-most-creative-studio-rose-from-the-ashes-1458030068

Gavin Moore faced the same problems when the core team for Puppeteer grew bigger. At first they were 14 people in concept and prototyping stage as he talked about at GDC 2014. They brought in more staff in the last year and were 65 people. What he did was to make them into small teams and they had a review every second week. He wanted his staff to break out from that box "Gavin is God, obey him" to "this is not Gavin's game, this is our team's game". He worked hard for that craftmanship and when it finally started to click, the staff didn't no longer talking with their team only, they even started to communicate with the core team. Gavin was impressed, it was amazing to see, especially for a Japanese team.

2011~2013 were hard times for JS. Toyama didn't faced the same problems because he had a small team for Vita but when he increased staff for GR2 who came from Puppeteer and outside of that he was used to lead a team. We got GR2 on PS4 quite fast.

As time went on and JS had learn about structure Becker hired more and more staff. He wants JS to produce more titles than they did in the past. Outsourcing to other studios it's harder for Shu and others to playtest it. People here are saying JS should outsource when that was exactly what they did in the PS2 and PS3 days.

http://m.ign.com/articles/2017/06/30/how-playstationas-japan-studio-stands-out-a-ign-first
"At Japan Studio I think we have a lot of talented people, but for whatever reason I think we fell behind in terms of technology, and that started way back in the PS2 days and PS3," he said. "Japan Studio wasn't producing that many titles. And so with PS4, we're really starting to build the technology back up."

He wants JS to be more involved with game development so the staff learns from that experience and can improve for the next game and become better. Knack 2 may be a shit game but the staff got to learn about varied things like in-game cinematic, QTE, etc that could be useful for a better game.

https://blog.us.playstation.com/201...udio-allan-becker-speaks-to-playstation-blog/

PlayStation.Blog: How has JAPAN Studio changed in the last two or three years?
Allan Becker:
We have become better focused and better prepared to compete in a fast and ever changing industry. The Studio is more open to new technologies and ideas and willing to grasp those opportunities when they come along. But at the heart JAPAN Studio still retains its core ideal to make creative, novel and imaginative titles.

PSB: More generally speaking, how do you choose which studios to collaborate with?
AB:
The key has less to do with the studios but which creative individual we wish to collaborate with. They are the one that we will work with, sometimes on a daily basis. So it is important to choose someone who has the same mindset as we do.


Miyazaki and FromSoftware have been an exception to that rule on PS4. FromSoftware has a good reputation and is a quite large studio. If we mention Shift and GenDESIGN for example they didn't really produced the title they were the creative force for the game. Behind concept, game design and story. GenDESIGN is around 14 people and Shift was 18 people on Freedom Wars (whilst the dev team worked on GE2) as Dimps produced it when JS was lacking staff and team structure at the time.

It depends on projects how Becker look at them. Oreshika series was produced by Alfa System and created/directed by Shoji Matsuda.


thats because they stopped making fucking games. Sony and their bullshit Move move killed off a cpl of their talented devs. they put them to make mini games and suck. studio japan was god like in PS1 and somewhat during PS2 era.
 

Henrik

Member
Jan 3, 2018
1,607
thats because they stopped making fucking games. Sony and their bullshit Move move killed off a cpl of their talented devs. they put them to make mini games and suck. studio japan was god like in PS1 and somewhat during PS2 era.
On PS2 we had Team ICO and new staff on Ape Escape 2 and 3. The original staff on Ape Escape were moved to other projects. That's about it. That is still weak compared to PS1.

Becker is mainly talking about in-house involvement rather than just outsourcing as they did in the PS2 and PS3 days. Shu said Legend of Dragoon 2 was in pre-production when he left Japan Studio in 2000.
http://www.egmnow.com/articles/news/sony-talks-about-cancelled-the-legend-of-dragoon-2/

Kouno mentioned about this direction by upper management at SIEJ at the time. Their order was to make more simple games with restricted budgets.
https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/132342/the_thoughtful_design_of_locoroco_.php?print=1

It's interesting that the projects seem to get more simple as you went on. Legend of Dragoon is a very complicated game, like the Final Fantasy series. Ico is a similar game, but much less complicated.

Then EyeToy being less complicated still, and finally, LocoRoco. Is that just a coincidence? Or is it that as you started to learn what you could take away, and still be left with a good game?

TK: Actually, no. That's just been the direction the company's been heading in the last few years. But with all the projects I've worked on, I tried to bring as much of myself to my work as I could.

Shu takes over from Phil Harrison in 2008 as president of WWS and came back to Japan. He was critical to the direction JS has been taken since he left the studio.
https://www./threads/shuhei-yoshida-more-resources-from-sony-japan-studios-on-ps3.378744/

They had people like Hasebe, Iwata, Takatsuka who left JS after the PS1 era. Art director and CG movie director Kenichi Iwata moved to different companies to work on Xbox games (character designer on Phantom Dust, you recognize his LOD style). SCEJ's upper management took third party support in Japan for granted like Shu said. So they fell behind technology.
 

Deleted member 33

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
1,457
There's one thing that stands out to me.

On the PS4, most of PlayStation's iconic cartoony mascot characters are represented:
  • 2016's Ratchet & Clank.
  • Remakes of the Crash and Spyro trilogies.
  • PS2 ports of all three Jak & Daxter games.
  • PS2 port of Ape Escape 2.
  • Remastered Parappa the Rapper 1, PS2 port of Parappa 2
  • Remastered Medieval
  • Remastered port of Tearaway.
But there's no Sly Cooper representation on PS4. No remakes. No sequels. No remasters. No PS2 ports.
 

GamerDude

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,313
There's one thing that stands out to me.

On the PS4, most of PlayStation's iconic cartoony mascot characters are represented:
  • 2016's Ratchet & Clank.
  • Remakes of the Crash and Spyro trilogies.
  • PS2 ports of all three Jak & Daxter games.
  • PS2 port of Ape Escape 2.
  • Remastered Parappa the Rapper 1, PS2 port of Parappa 2
  • Remastered Medieval
  • Remastered port of Tearaway.
But there's no Sly Cooper representation on PS4. No remakes. No sequels. No remasters. No PS2 ports.

I would love anything Sly related. Even just a remaster package of those games. The only one I've ever played was the game they released on PS3. Really liked it.
 

klee123

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,104
On PS2 we had Team ICO and new staff on Ape Escape 2 and 3. The original staff on Ape Escape were moved to other projects. That's about it. That is still weak compared to PS1.

Becker is mainly talking about in-house involvement rather than just outsourcing as they did in the PS2 and PS3 days. Shu said Legend of Dragoon 2 was in pre-production when he left Japan Studio in 2000.
http://www.egmnow.com/articles/news/sony-talks-about-cancelled-the-legend-of-dragoon-2/

Kouno mentioned about this direction by upper management at SIEJ at the time. Their order was to make more simple games with restricted budgets.
https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/132342/the_thoughtful_design_of_locoroco_.php?print=1

It's interesting that the projects seem to get more simple as you went on. Legend of Dragoon is a very complicated game, like the Final Fantasy series. Ico is a similar game, but much less complicated.

Then EyeToy being less complicated still, and finally, LocoRoco. Is that just a coincidence? Or is it that as you started to learn what you could take away, and still be left with a good game?

TK: Actually, no. That's just been the direction the company's been heading in the last few years. But with all the projects I've worked on, I tried to bring as much of myself to my work as I could.

Shu takes over from Phil Harrison in 2008 as president of WWS and came back to Japan. He was critical to the direction JS has been taken since he left the studio.
https://www./threads/shuhei-yoshida-more-resources-from-sony-japan-studios-on-ps3.378744/

They had people like Hasebe, Iwata, Takatsuka who left JS after the PS1 era. Art director and CG movie director Kenichi Iwata moved to different companies to work on Xbox games (character designer on Phantom Dust, you recognize his LOD style). SCEJ's upper management took third party support in Japan for granted like Shu said. So they fell behind technology.

That was my issues since the PS3 era from them. The majority of their output felt more like novelties or tech demos with the majority of them being pretty average.

They should have kept and nurtured some of the talent they had during the PS1 and 2 years, and they would be thriving as an in house developer today.
 

Deleted member 864

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,544
giphy.gif


I'll take anything Sly related, even if it's just a collection of the four games, although another entry would be really nice too.
 

Henrik

Member
Jan 3, 2018
1,607
That was my issues since the PS3 era from them. The majority of their output felt more like novelties or tech demos with the majority of them being pretty average.

They should have kept and nurtured some of the talent they had during the PS1 and 2 years, and they would be thriving as an in house developer today.
I was happy to see Rain and Puppeteer announced in 2012 and gave me glimpse of hope for great things to come.

But then Mark Cerny shattered my dreams and announce Knack the year after and confirmed proud on stage he is working with Japan Studio on this project. My reaction was yawn... "Are they kidding!!??"
 

npclivesmatter

Banned for use of alt account
Banned
Apr 18, 2018
274
On PS2 we had Team ICO and new staff on Ape Escape 2 and 3. The original staff on Ape Escape were moved to other projects. That's about it. That is still weak compared to PS1.

Becker is mainly talking about in-house involvement rather than just outsourcing as they did in the PS2 and PS3 days. Shu said Legend of Dragoon 2 was in pre-production when he left Japan Studio in 2000.
http://www.egmnow.com/articles/news/sony-talks-about-cancelled-the-legend-of-dragoon-2/

Kouno mentioned about this direction by upper management at SIEJ at the time. Their order was to make more simple games with restricted budgets.
https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/132342/the_thoughtful_design_of_locoroco_.php?print=1

It's interesting that the projects seem to get more simple as you went on. Legend of Dragoon is a very complicated game, like the Final Fantasy series. Ico is a similar game, but much less complicated.

Then EyeToy being less complicated still, and finally, LocoRoco. Is that just a coincidence? Or is it that as you started to learn what you could take away, and still be left with a good game?

TK: Actually, no. That's just been the direction the company's been heading in the last few years. But with all the projects I've worked on, I tried to bring as much of myself to my work as I could.

Shu takes over from Phil Harrison in 2008 as president of WWS and came back to Japan. He was critical to the direction JS has been taken since he left the studio.
https://www./threads/shuhei-yoshida-more-resources-from-sony-japan-studios-on-ps3.378744/

They had people like Hasebe, Iwata, Takatsuka who left JS after the PS1 era. Art director and CG movie director Kenichi Iwata moved to different companies to work on Xbox games (character designer on Phantom Dust, you recognize his LOD style). SCEJ's upper management took third party support in Japan for granted like Shu said. So they fell behind technology.


that was one of the reasons playstation doesn't do well in japan anymore. they don't really make japanese games. even the 3rd party collaborations are weak weak as hell. ps2 had kingdom hearts as exclusive. many castlevania games multiple final fantasy games. so god damn many level 5 games. and many more

ofcourse japan doesn't give a shit about ps4. or even ps3.

just imagine. if Sony made only JRPGs for the ps4. because Sony made absolutely 0. 0 first party japanese games. it would sell worse than xbox one here and europe.


Sony japan needs a rehaul. because we still need some of that japanese culture to rub onto us once in a while. I'd vote for expanding studio japan. and acquiring an another medium sized japan studio for next gen console. but that prob wont happen.
 

Henrik

Member
Jan 3, 2018
1,607
that was one of the reasons playstation doesn't do well in japan anymore. they don't really make japanese games. even the 3rd party collaborations are weak weak as hell. ps2 had kingdom hearts as exclusive. many castlevania games multiple final fantasy games. so god damn many level 5 games. and many more

ofcourse japan doesn't give a shit about ps4. or even ps3.

just imagine. if Sony made only JRPGs for the ps4. because Sony made absolutely 0. 0 first party japanese games. it would sell worse than xbox one here and europe.


Sony japan needs a rehaul. because we still need some of that japanese culture to rub onto us once in a while. I'd vote for expanding studio japan. and acquiring an another medium sized japan studio for next gen console. but that prob wont happen.
Becker is already working on it behind the scenes. Rome was not built on a day.

It seemed it already started for Team ICO to obey Becker's new rules.
https://www./threads/kenji-kaido-leaves-sce-producer-of-ico-sotc.488706/

Becker wanted a new focus on technology to embrace new tools as quick as possible to keep up with the industry. Team ICO were bunch of artists who cared more about art than update your tech skills as we saw what happened to TLG on PS3. And nobody can denies that.

It didn't only seemed Team ICO was alone to have that problem inside JS
http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...-write-games-and-why-variation-is-everything/

"Were there points where you thought 'I shouldn't have done this, it's too ambitious?"

"[Laughs] I think there were points my staff hated me, because we don't really use any technology: we wrote our own rendering engine, our cloth engine, etc… and we'd have 3D. But we don't really use any physics engines at all or anything. All that animation has to be done by hand. What we say is that you basically shouldn't be able to see anything in Puppeteer twice. So all my background artists would make all these backgrounds and then people would run past them in two seconds. That's it. And people would get angry with me because they would ask if they can we use stuff again, but I'd say no."

Not could use any technology at all is really bad. Physics engines have big companies like Square Enix, Capcom used for quite some time now. Good on Moore teaching the staff the way to new technologies. That probably opened up the mind on artists inside JS.
 

Femto0

Banned
Apr 28, 2018
2,591
Do You know what a potential purchase could be? Cygames,with them first party Sony could fill two huge hole, Sony could have a big trojan horse in the mobile market and with the right investments granblue fantasy could became huge as final fantasy
 

Nakenorm

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
22,276
Do You know what a potential purchase could be? Cygames,with them first party Sony could fill two huge hole, Sony could have a big trojan horse in the mobile market and with the right investments granblue fantasy could became huge as final fantasy

I just Googled Granblue Fantasy, I'm not sure I want it to be as huge as FF.
 

Undrey

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,647
I really don't get why Sony is so weird with the Sly series. How much would it really cost to port the PS2 games a la the Jak series? Then there's that TV series that hasn't had an update in who knows how long. It feels like they've been ignoring Sly for years now.
 
Nov 21, 2017
4,663
Do we have any possible hints about some big stuff for E3?
First party wise both The Last of US Part 2 & Marvel's Spider-Man are confirmed to be showing up at E3 for Sony. Sony XDev Europe also last year teased big things coming in 2018 so likely we will hear something from them as they tend to spread their announcements at E3 & PGW/PSX. Sony also recently renewed the Syphon Filter trademark leading some to speculate that is the next game Bluepoint Games is remaking. Sony also typically has a VR segment so it is possible that Sony's Manchester Studio may finally reveal their 1st game.

Other currently announced first party games that could appear during Sony's E3 conference include:
Ghost of Tsushima
Days Gone
Death Stranding
Concrete Genie
Dreams
Blood and Truth
 

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
8,393
I'd be surprised if we didn't get gameplay for Ghost of Tsushima and a target year. Kinda the same for Death Stranding considering how smooth its development seems to be.

Also, not Sony-related (although it's going to release on PS4), but I'm really curious about Remedy's new project.
 
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