Because they're huge sycophants that always goad him into taking potshots at Obsidian every chance they get in his forum posts?
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Chris Avellone alledges Obsidian almost silenced and forced him to never work on RPGs again
- Thread starter Strikerrr
- Start date
The site is full of white supremacists and adores Avellone. In the same thread he has also spent a fair amount of times bad-mouthing former co-workers, one of whom has rejected his account. It's entirely possible some shady shit went down, but frankly I don't find Avellone's one-sided accounts to a sycophantic audience of alt-righters a credible basis for any kind of conclusion.
And the fact that he is doing this the week before a new Obsidian game gets released, even though this all actually went down years ago, suggests spite as a motivating factor.
Yeah, that is good.
I personally have never seen one for life, because it is harder for them to hold up legally I assume. But that is not to say attempts have never been made.
A fair chunk of the community have hate boners for Obsidian too. I still remember all the people referring to Tyranny as "Tranny" and the number of people whining about sjw-this-or-that is quite high.
This is nuts. Highly highly disappointing. Obsidian is (was?) one of my favorite game companies, and that was mostly due to Avellone's involvement.
On a sidenote, I just found out he's working on a turn-based WW2 game with some sort of Influence system, Burden of Command. Cool concept, and glad to see him back to designing games.
On a sidenote, I just found out he's working on a turn-based WW2 game with some sort of Influence system, Burden of Command. Cool concept, and glad to see him back to designing games.
Wow, this is some terrible shit.
I thought Obsidian were one of the few good guys left, the fact they wanted to actually hurt Chris and leverage his need to money against being able to work or speak up is mind boggling.
I mean, why turn such a relationship sour? Instead of just letting him go and paying what he's owed, seems like sowing bad apples when you don't have to.
I thought Obsidian were one of the few good guys left, the fact they wanted to actually hurt Chris and leverage his need to money against being able to work or speak up is mind boggling.
I mean, why turn such a relationship sour? Instead of just letting him go and paying what he's owed, seems like sowing bad apples when you don't have to.
To be brutally honest this is how 100% of publishers and 90+% (probably 100%) of large developers operate. Medium/small developers no, but once you enter a certain stratosphere of any industry, EVERYONE becomes a shark.
Chris marks this carefully with the language "good business, bad ethics" but the savage truth is it's how practically every large body in this (and any) industry operates.
You don't like it? Lump capitalism.
Chris marks this carefully with the language "good business, bad ethics" but the savage truth is it's how practically every large body in this (and any) industry operates.
You don't like it? Lump capitalism.
I want to believe Chris because I have loved his contribution to gaming up to this point, but I also didn't know he hung out on the Codex and joined in with their shit. I may be losing my respect for both Obsidian and Avellone here (probably more for Avellone since he is an individual not a corporation and knowing he shares some awful views is... *sigh*).
Some of them were very upset that the game portrayed a matriarchal society (I think? haven't played the game yet) and that female companions outnumbered males. It's not realistic, you know.
Edit: This is not to say Obsidian did not try to get Avellone to sign some kind of non-compete agreement. That's entirely plausible, and ranges from normal shitty to wildly shitty based on the exact terms. But I'm not going to take his word for much of anything.
Hmm...I need some more info soon. For now I guess I might hold off on preordering the Obsidian Edition of Deadfire.
Of course on the Codex they won't give a shit, Avellone is a living God over there, not to mention in the same thread they're actively trashing on a Trans Dev from Harebrained Schemes just cause that's what the Codex do, but at least some people on Era might actually take a measured approach to this.
I don't doubt some fuckery went down with Obsidian management and he probably got screwed over to some degree and pushed out, but at the same time I don't exactly think Avellone is a completely reliable source or wholly innocent. He's throwing a ton of mud around and yeah sticking with the Codex forever now doesn't exactly speak to his character.
I urge everyone to listen to both sides of the story. Avellone has a history of lighting shit on fire.
i've read this in the past days
i was waiting for some site to pickup the "news" and open the thread
but zilch
i was waiting for some site to pickup the "news" and open the thread
but zilch
Larian handles codex the best. They acknowledge their existence and maintain its a very scary place and they dont want to anger them with bad games.
You know, knowing that it's from Codex, I'm feeling some doubt on Chris's account. Especially this close to Deadfire's release.
This reads like a series of bad decisions that lost him all of his leverage in a time where he really couldn't afford to take a stand. He said he was being de-ownered, but admits he quit of his own accord which can screw up your healthcare and 401k etc so he didn't sign anything before he quit then came to the table afterwards.
I mean it sounds super sinister "They tried to silence me and not have me work in the field anymore!," but any major business will usually make a non-compete/critique clause when they're doing a severance with a former employee in a high position.
I don't like to cast doubt, but his complaints in the thread seem super personal and somewhat self-inflicted. =/
I mean it sounds super sinister "They tried to silence me and not have me work in the field anymore!," but any major business will usually make a non-compete/critique clause when they're doing a severance with a former employee in a high position.
I don't like to cast doubt, but his complaints in the thread seem super personal and somewhat self-inflicted. =/
It would be helpful if you included responses from others at Obsidian like Eric Fenstermaker who was Narrative Lead on PoE, now a freelance writer himself:
As well a response from Anthony Davis, Lead Programmer at Obsidian:
Interesting. I'd like to hear more from the higher ups, since this is all rather polarizing, but I doubt we will.
Yes, there's a reason why this came to light now. Follow the money.
Yeah that all is just... either he screwed himself horribly, in which case, sorry dude, or Obsidian literally stole from him, in which case he should get a lawyer and not post shit about it on message boards until the legal proceedings are settled.
I don't think there is anything that surprising from both Avellone's account and the other Obsidian employees telling their own experience there on the codex forums. It seems the issues were more between Avellone, Feargus and the other owners. It seems it went sour between them and they wanted to get rid of Avellone and his stake in the company with some terrible and excessive non compete clause. He's probably embellishing the story a bit and omitting important details. I don't see how the anecdotal experiences of people working there act as a validation or a rebuttal of the story since they are not Avellone and they probably didn't have a stake in the company either.
But the story would have more credibility if it had been posted elsewhere. Codex is not a reputable source.
Moreover I don't see why you wouldn't buy more Obsidian games because of this. The story implied Feargus and the owners are acting shady not the majority of people working on the games.
But the story would have more credibility if it had been posted elsewhere. Codex is not a reputable source.
Moreover I don't see why you wouldn't buy more Obsidian games because of this. The story implied Feargus and the owners are acting shady not the majority of people working on the games.
When did Chris Avellone himself under his own name and being quoted directly become a disreputable source and what does it have to do with RPGCodex exactly? If you're going to shoot the messenger because you don't like the message board Avellone is posting on that's pretty shallow.
My best, mostly baseless, speculation is that it went something like:
- Chris Avellone and other owners develop some personal animosity. God knows why or whose fault it is.
- Avellone gets increasingly side-lined in the company due to a combination of said animosity and personal issues -- at other points I think he's mentioned major ongoing family health issues.
- Said side-linery culminates in most of his work on Pillars getting cut, as described by Eric Fenstermaker.
- Avellone quits in a huff, without reading his contract. Turns out by doing so, he forfeits a bunch of shit he would/should otherwise have gotten.
- He tries to get some of that shit back but the remaining owners hate him at this point and dick him around a lot at the negotiating table, and he walks.
I really have no stance here. This could easily just be a disgruntled ex employee situation. No one is infallible in that regard. At the same time, someone pouring out about a bad experience, well I don't want to discount their account either. I like both Chris and his contributions and Obsidian over the years. This sucks.
Lol, that makes me smile. I know nothing about RPG codex. But I just find that funny.
The truth almost always lies somewhere in the middle. So it definitely wouldn't surprise me if you were near spot on.
I didn't know any of this stuff obviously but the way Avellone was tossed out by Feargus always rubbed me the wrong way. I had already felt like he was harming the company with some of his decisions but then he chases away their strongest asset and now we know why. Feargus needs to go. They still have some talent there but Obsidian's been a shell of themselves for a long time now (New Vegas/AP was 8 years ago!) and it's clear that management is only making things worse.
I would feel nervous to accept someone's word if they got it out there through an interview with Breitbart or Fox News too, so I don't really see the difference.
I love Avellone, but there needs to be words from Obsidian as well. Business can sour the best of relationships. With the amount of stress that Obsidian was under for years, tensions had to have been high for a long time. MCA's words are still highly disturbing.
Avellone should just go talk to Pete Hines and get himself taken care of at Beth Soft. It seems like everyone was happy with his work on Prey, and lord knows BGS could use his help.
Avellone should just go talk to Pete Hines and get himself taken care of at Beth Soft. It seems like everyone was happy with his work on Prey, and lord knows BGS could use his help.
I don't know about that. It's sometimes the case that a person can have a legitimate grievance, even a plausible legal claim, but a lawsuit is a less attractive option than just eating the loss and venting when the opportunity arises.
But I agree with you all that there are reasons not to take this story as gospel (and that the Codex is gross).
Can someone explain how you can be a co-owner and lose all of your shares in a company without compensation?
Yeah we've gotta have some business law people here. Seems literally impossible, or if it happened wildly illegal.
I like the disclaimer, especially as it sheds more light into the situation from Eric's view.
I really think something did happen to slight Chris's perspective on what actually happened. However, it could be because he is disgruntled by the situation that is causing him to be so negative, similar to David Ballard's situation
Wut? Pillars was one of the most successful Kickstarter games ever and sold very well for them giving Obsidian their first major fully owned IP to exploit. Tyranny despite issues and so so sales, in large part due to Paradox's poor marketing of the game, was another great game far better than many of the other cRPGs that have come out lately. Now they're less than 5 days away from releasing what looks to be a massively improved sequel with Deadfire, which was the most successful Fig campaign and even more successful than the PoE Kickstarter. And by all accounts they have something pretty big cooking with the Cain/Boyarsky game. I'd hardly call that a shell. They may not be in the big budget AAA space anymore, but that's probably a good thing.
I kinda want to hear the other side here, because the timing is a little suspicious. That being said I met Avellone a few times at PAX East and he seemed rather chill both the year PoE was launching and the year after, so for this to happen especially on Codex is rather something.
Still processing this story but I feel like there is a huge contradiction between wishing the devs well and putting this story out right before the release of their next game in what seems an intentional effort to detract from the launch of the game.
Also I can't fathom why anyone with integrity tries to cultivate a positive relationship with a community that still thinks its cool to call everyone "faggots" like we're chillin' in the 1980s.
Also I can't fathom why anyone with integrity tries to cultivate a positive relationship with a community that still thinks its cool to call everyone "faggots" like we're chillin' in the 1980s.
This sort of puts into context some things. If I recall correctly, obsidian actually WANTS to be bought by someone. You'd think it'd be easy to find a buyer for a talented studio. Maybe this stuff was an open secret in the Industry and put perspective buyers off
Wow. I didn't find their most recent games like Pillars and Tyranny engaging at all despite the CRPG revival hype but I had no idea this kind of stuff was going on there. I'm glad other devs like inXile and Larian carry the CRPG banner.
He doesn't pander to the codex dwellers however and often goes against their views. In an old interview for another site one of his st atements about a Fallout MMO which he thought could do well was matched with a provocation for the site users to light their torches or whatever. I'll agree the site's forums are a pretty awful place but I still check the website daily alongside all the other gaming news sites and it doesn't seem to be reflected on the site content. But, again, all this makes no difference unless Avellone comes out and says this interview never happened and it's all a lie, otherwise this thread is about Avellone speaking of shady/shitty shenanigans at Obsidian, not the site or any derailing conspiracy theories of yours. Also, none of this will even begin to make a dent to any upcoming game's sales, if anything it will be forgotten by next week by most, if they wanted to affect that game's sales they sure aren't being effective, lol.
Last edited:
I'm afraid I pointedly avoided Corporations and have forgotten everything I had to learn for the bar exam, but it doesn't strike me as impossible for a privately-held corporation to arrange itself so that the board can remove an "owner" and deprive/him her of his/her ownership stake with little or no compensation.
Pillars 1 was mediocre at best and a long shot from some of their classics they've made. Tyranny was even worse and way under budgeted by Paradox resulting in probably the most forgettable crpg since they've come back to the industry. We'll see about pillars 2 and the cain/boyarsky project but they used to be one of the leaders in the RPG space in the previous 2 gens. They're barely in the conversation anymore right now.
