Cmon it ain't that bad. Why would anyone feel any shame for playing the game in public with a character like this?
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
- Start date
- Status
Really? You hardly do at all, and I enjoyed it for whatever glimpse it was. Would've been cool to see Geralt's butt too.
Now you're just concern trolling. I didn't say adults didn't play those games, I said they were "aimed at younger audiences".
The rest of your post is just more deliberate obtuseness and changing the topics with tangents about GaaS. Which is funny considering how heavily sexualization is featured in Dota 2, hmmmm (lol, Google Image Search's first suggestion of keyword here is... "sexualized")
Not that any of this matters because that's not the point Jotakori was making. So... are you going to stop with that now, or...?
You don't say...
... sighSpeaking of Xenoblade, latest news!
I couldn't help but LOL.
XCX some of the absurd skimpy outfits didn't bother me much because they were usually party members and you could immediately switch them to something reasonable. NPCs were pretty much all reasonably dressed.
There's been a few solid XC2 designs, but shit like those really dampens any enthusiasm I may have for the game since there are no outfits.
Speaking of Xenoblade, latest news!
I couldn't help but LOL.
Well, this is what happens when you bring in several guest artists onto a game in Japan. It's how varied the gacha art for characters can get in gacha games like F/GO. Some are super tame, while others are like that. It's all up to the contracted artist and their "taste".
At this point, I've gotten used to it. Some trashy designs I even enjoy like Tharja and Camilia from Fire Emblem (even though I think the panties thing on Camilia is absurdly stupid). The west is making progress, but if you want positive change in Japan, you're going to have a huge uphill battle. It'll require turning the entire industry on its head.
Xenoblade 2 is starting to seem kind of embarrassing. I've already heard some people say this completely puts them off the game. Why can't there just be normal designs?
I was not saying that males don't respond to material data. You seem to assume that every male has read about the physiology and chooses his mates according to it.
My point was that ancient instincts still exist today and unconsciously people make decisions based on them or are at least swayed by them. This has nothing to do with our new scientific knowledge that the size of the breasts has no implication on the milk production. Of course today we view this differently but without this physiological knowledge how were mates choosen? Aren't bigger breasts more appealing, healthy, desirable if you don't have that knowledge?
As you said, nowadays it doesn't matter is more a thing of what you personally find attractive. But that is due to our knowledge we achieved. Instincts don't work on knowledge but are ancient programs that existed from the beginning, today less prevalent then in the past of course.
Maybe I am understanding you incorrectly, English is not my native language therefore I am sorry if I get something wrong during translation. =(
I absolutely adored the original minus some character outfits for #7, Sharla, and Lorithia. Xenoblade 2 is a spiritual sequel to the first game, but the art barely reflects that. This looks nothing like the original minus the world design and bad UI. I'm sad because hyped for a new game, but I can't look at the game without cringing.
to be fair every monolith game changed art style, even xenosaga
I can't bring myself to be mad at Xenoblade 2's designs because the majority of women's character armor has been deeply uncomfortable since the FIRST game, and X was so bad the default outfits and recolors were usually the only good non-cosmetic armor for women at all. This is a franchise that needed to be talked about long, long before this, and the fact that it's only come to a head now that it's actually being brought front and center when it was only slightly under the surface in the first place just. . .I don't know.
Xenoblade has always made Fire Emblem look dignified and kosher. Everyone gave them the go ahead on that by refusing to acknowledge problems while people that wanted more pandering flipped out about localization changes, and here we are. A whole game full of artistic vision, exactly what was asked for.
Xenoblade has always made Fire Emblem look dignified and kosher. Everyone gave them the go ahead on that by refusing to acknowledge problems while people that wanted more pandering flipped out about localization changes, and here we are. A whole game full of artistic vision, exactly what was asked for.
A big issue with the new Lara is they pretty much zapped anything unique and interesting about her. Just compare the backstories of the two. The rebooted Lara's backstory is one of her following in her dads footsteps. He's an archaeologist and she takes interest in it while he occasionally takes her on adventures with him. Their relationship would eventually get strained because of his obsession with artifacts which led to him neglecting her. She left and was then partially raised by another treasure hunter named Roth. She would eventually go on her first real expedition with a college friend and some others and that's where the events of the reboot start. The original Lara was a character that grew up in an aristocratic family with no relationship to archaeology. At the age of 21 on the way home from a ski trip her plane crashed and she was the only survivor. She had to figure out a way to survive on her own for two weeks until she finally found a village. Once she made it back home her life changed as she began traveling the world to learn about ancient civilizations. She would do that for eight more years. Her family eventually disowned her because of her refusal to marry the Earl of Farringdon. Because of this she went from having a rich life to having nothing. So she began to write books about her adventures and that's how she funded additional trips.
Their personalities are also quite different. The new Lara is very reserved. She's just very mellow in general. The original Lara on the other hand was outgoing, confident and pretty damn cocky. In many ways as far as personality goes, she was Drake before Drake.
I think the thing that bothers me the most about the "go play something else" argument is that it presumes that women are not hardcore consumers of the medium. If you play one or two games a year, then sure, you can probably limit yourself to games with little-to-no objectionable content. But if gaming is your main hobby, you're going to encountering sexualized designs and other issues on a regular basis.
Right now, I am considering picking up Ys VIII, a game with some female character designs that definitely make me uncomfortable. What are the other recently released, story-driven action RPGs with strong combat that I should be playing in its place? It's easy to suggest games that are several years old or not out yet when you don't actually care about how women are treated in games. It's a lot harder to find things to play when you are actually in this position.
I will always champion the games I love. I have bought multiple copies of titles like Life is Strange and Undertale so that I could give them to friends. But if I avoided every game with content that bothered me, I would have given up on gaming years ago.
Right now, I am considering picking up Ys VIII, a game with some female character designs that definitely make me uncomfortable. What are the other recently released, story-driven action RPGs with strong combat that I should be playing in its place? It's easy to suggest games that are several years old or not out yet when you don't actually care about how women are treated in games. It's a lot harder to find things to play when you are actually in this position.
I will always champion the games I love. I have bought multiple copies of titles like Life is Strange and Undertale so that I could give them to friends. But if I avoided every game with content that bothered me, I would have given up on gaming years ago.
You're quite right. I think the 'background radiation' of just getting so used to JRPG teen girls running around in their underwear made the guys silly outfit stand out more to me at the time, but sure, her outfit is far, far worse.
It would be interesting to read actual scientific polls or studies about what structural trends exist regarding women's opinions of the solution to sexualization in games, that is, whether it should be a case of zero sexualization across the board, far less sexualization in comparative terms, or equal opportunity sexualization (knowing that the social situation itself is not equal by any means due to power differences).
This is a problem, a lot of people are too used to sexualized teen girls (especially in anime styled games) that they just don't notice it anymore. They see it as normal. This happens when you're using that kind of style for years and years.
Thats why, for example, there was so much fuss about the FF Mobius guy, that had to be redesigned because it was too sexualized for being a man.
I agree though, at first stance the guy stands out because he's an abnormaly bad designed character, while the girl is just another fanservice design.
I just want to point out that this isn't true.
Most AAA games target adult males 18-32.
The more niche the games the less they target younger than 18 demographics.
Problematic is putting this trend lightly. This series went from having decent design sense to complete garbage in two iterations, made even worse by these sexualized lolis. Loli art is already borderline, but seeing it cranked up to 11 in this game is really, really uncomfortable. Is this design sense going to help or hurt sales, I wonder...
Witcher has some of the strongest most well written and well rounded women in all of gaming.
Essentially you slut shamed a character before you knew anything about them?
That design is from Fire Emblem. And specifically Awakening, the game credited for saving the series.
Cmon people, these womens only wants to play mainsteam games while womens body not be using as sex object. They are not saying you can't enjoy with porn, fully fanservice games, hentai, sex fantasy books etc. as long as game/book whatever is about to sex, sexy, making masturbate, making virtual girl/boy friend... They also don't saying sexy characters can't be happening in mainsteam games, they can but without cheap camera works, very absurd clothes, not just sexywomens (equality) and not only as for fap material. They are also not saying artist can't do this or this, they just saying if they are not going to do this i can support them fully and i can enjoy with their games fully, it's not so hard to understand, just think about it, put your place with a women and see from their perspective. Sure there are also womens likes these things, we can't deny that but no need to exclude who dislikes these.
You are saying don't play this game play different one but there is no game like Dragon Dogma (as far as i see there is no fanservice with this game, just saying as sample -as if-) how can they are going to enjoy a fantastic game like that one? No need to kill their fun for to see some absurd sexy womens in mainsteam games, that's so unnecessary and actually you have so much different options to play, watch and see sexy womens if you want.
But we should not forget this; horny persons paying good moneys for to see sexy girls/boys so creator doing their games for them ( sometimes some elements or entire game) because this is a risky business and they wants to earn their profit. Simplest example look Steam Trading card market, generally games with cute; sexy anime girls much more expensive than others.
I should say these sort of threads definitely working because i also following these threads since Gaf and learned lot of things from different women perspectives. Thank you all and hope one day we can see equality for this aspect or no more only sex object womens in mainsteam games.
Sorry if my English annoying, not my first language.
You are saying don't play this game play different one but there is no game like Dragon Dogma (as far as i see there is no fanservice with this game, just saying as sample -as if-) how can they are going to enjoy a fantastic game like that one? No need to kill their fun for to see some absurd sexy womens in mainsteam games, that's so unnecessary and actually you have so much different options to play, watch and see sexy womens if you want.
But we should not forget this; horny persons paying good moneys for to see sexy girls/boys so creator doing their games for them ( sometimes some elements or entire game) because this is a risky business and they wants to earn their profit. Simplest example look Steam Trading card market, generally games with cute; sexy anime girls much more expensive than others.
I should say these sort of threads definitely working because i also following these threads since Gaf and learned lot of things from different women perspectives. Thank you all and hope one day we can see equality for this aspect or no more only sex object womens in mainsteam games.
Sorry if my English annoying, not my first language.
Last edited:
Yennefer is a good female character in terms of role, agency and even in general if you ask me, but it is possible to dislike the way the nudity was handled in that specific scene compared to Geralt. Though I probably would agree that it worked in context, I think making such criticisms remains valid and not slut shaming.
Last edited:
"I saw her naked and did not need to see her ass so I have labeled her as how Witcher treats women"
You do not think so?
OP
OP
"Ugh, really? The first we see of an important female character is her naked ass? I'm sure this won't be a pattern of female objectification throughout the game, regardless of how well written the women are" = slut shaming. TIL.
Us Shining Force fans got to see the franchise turn into fanservice loli shit long before Fire Emblem, when they started having the artwork done by a hentai artist (Tony Taka). Shining Force not only went from cool SRPGs to mediocre ARPGs, but art-wise, we went from this to this -- I kid you not.
So. It's only fair that you Fire Emblem fans get to suffer with us!
I'm joking obviously. It sucks, I know.
There's pretty much no such thing as "slut-shaming" a character.
Silver chestplate equipped on a male characte:
Silver chestplate (exactly the same item) equipped on a female character:
I love Dragon's Dogma, but it's not exempt from sexist shit like this, sadly. It also has tons of women-only equipment pieces that are nothing more than lingerie. And 90% of the pawns you can hire are loli females dressed like that.
That said I don't disagree with your post in general, just want to show that yes, even in games where people might not realize there is fanservice, there actually is, lol.
Last edited:
No, it's not slut shaming. It's maybe unfairly categorizing the characterization, but that isn't even remotely slut shaming. For what it's worth, though, despite good writing I do think the female character designs often skew too far into sexualization just for the sake of it.
At least in Fire Emblem you can go for 'operation get behind the lolis', removing and selling their weapons and sending them off to meet the enemy en-masse equipped with nothing more than their ridiculous outfits. Hail permadeath :D
Most crap JRPG lolis sit on the subs bench for the next 30 hours without the option to chuck them out of the airship/airlock/continent. That has to be far worse. Especially when the obligatory 'use all the party members you deliberately haven't levelled' section pops up. Eurgh.
Last edited:
Nooo! :D The only Shining Force game I've played was Resurrection of the Dark Dragon (GBA remake of a Megadrive one)- was that a good or bad one?
It's been a while since I've seen a common-or-garden Metal bikini, that's about as pure an example of the difference in some male/female armour as you can get.Silver chestplate equipped on a male characte:
Silver chestplate (exactly the same item) equipped on a female character:
I love Dragon's Dogma, but it's not exempt from sexist shit like this, sadly.
It was an... okay one? Haha. The original is much better IMO. The new characters/battles added in the remake are a fun little addition I guess, and IIRC the translation was better, but IMO they ruined the original art style which was one of its strength (not because of sexualization though, fortunately -- it was just really mediocre art compared to Yoshitaka Tamaki's art in the original. Still, I'd play that remake over anything that came after SF3 for sure.
Shining Force 1 is the game I credit for getting me into video games at the tender age of 10 or so. So it really hurts to see the absolute lows the franchise has sunk to since the PS2 era. RIP :(
That was a remake of the first Shining Force game. The first two + Shining in the Darkness are mostly safe from this. I think III is as well but I admittedly haven't played it. It's when they stopped numbering them where it ran straight off a cliff. I'm hoping the Switch FE game eases off of this.
Interesting- I might ask about SF elsewhere in future rather than head off topic here, but it's one of the series. I've always meant to play, I really like the centaurs instead of knights.
Thanks for the info :-) Yeah, I'm optimistic about the Switch FE following Echoes, I really liked most of the designs and the art style of that one. Less so the FE Heroes art though.
Just as sad is how much this blends in with other designs I've seen, including a significant proportion of the outfits you can find in PSO2.Speaking of Xenoblade, latest news!
I couldn't help but LOL.
Some of it is, of course, cross-pollination with freelancers getting brought in to do work across games, but it really shows how much the industry in Japan uses itself as reference: an incestuous relationship with in turn creates derivative works that are so samey it's almost impossible to differentiate them from one another.
I feel as though any straight male gamer should want more variety in the industry, and not just more and more of the same shit over and over again. If nothing else, it'd be less boring, right? And yet they continue to churn out more and more of the same crap; stuff that blends in so thoroughly it becomes a sea of boob & butt poses and unnecessary skin exposure.
I just want to move on from all of this...
It's especially annoying as the male rare blades, while rare, are actually more distinctive, with one being fan service...and another being in armor. Like, why can't we a female blade have that? The one female blade that could be an awesome armor design is ruined because she's in the middle of said design completely exposed because of course she is. (On mobile so can't find the picture.) I find it disappointing when compared to previous Xenoblade Chronicles games and what few concept art we've seen of that future Monolith Soft Game as at least the outfits, even if the are fan servicey, at least matched there style instead of sticking out so much that the camera goes out of its way to hide it.
Ahh... PSO2. The game where its series had such a respectable and well designed character
turned into this
of course, with her underwear properly designed because that is SO important (also, yes, you can buy and run with nothing but that underwear in your character)
And yes, all of the designs looks the same. I tend to see people they like anime styled designs like those because they are more original... but I just see the same shit everywhere. It's no different that western devs recurring a lot of times to grounded characters.
It's not about seeing her naked. It's about a reoccuring pattern of what we've seen in the FRANCHISE (in regard to some female NPCs), not just TW3. How the camera pans around, how they're presented to the player.
The first game rewards you for sleeping with women with fucking trading cards. And as others have mentioned, these depictions have not vanished in TW3, even if they do have strong female characters.
It's not one or the other. You can simultaneously write good and bad characters. I'm not saying we need to throw out The Witcher as a franchise, I'm saying the devs should be called out when they have sexist content in their games and work to make a better, more improved product next time.
Yes, it's one 100% understandable, I criticize such designs myself and the main example for me is Quiet too. That kind of stuff actually stopped me from playing a bunch of games.
While not a real solution, I love that you can do this. I'll definitely take the idea next time I play a FE game.
I'll be honest, in this particular case I find the first one so dreadful (I'm talking about the art mainly, though also the design itself is pretty terrible) that I actually prefer Tony's perfectly sameface pin-ups.
I wouldn't mind more eroticism in games that isn't of the braindead cheesecake/fanservice variety. There are ways to be sexy without putting women in chainmail bikinis or reducing them to objects to be ogled.
Generic 90's anime >>>>>>>>>>>>>> generic modern anime, y'all know it :D
Overall I do prefer the art in SF1 and 2.
But, this is getting a bit off-topic right now I guess.
Well, Spiriel (SF3) isn't my favourite design, I just used her as a design that is, y'know, respectful to female warriors.
Overall I do prefer the art in SF1 and 2.
But, this is getting a bit off-topic right now I guess.
You are not understanding your OWN point, is the problem here.
You are saying that men are biologically programmed to seek large breasts in women, despite the fact that breast size is a secondary sexual characteristic that is largely irrelevant to maintaining a genetic line.
This MEANS, if true, that men are programmed "since ancient times" with an inborn error. That their instincts lead them to pursue [less good] mates due to an incorrect biological imperative.
That is simply a blatant form of misandry and I'm against it.
Speaking of Xenoblade, latest news!
I couldn't help but LOL.
Please, please, please tell me this isn't official art for XC2.
Cmon it ain't that bad. Why would anyone feel any shame for playing the game in public with a character like this?
The saddest thing is that this is a pretty cool character idea / design, if the author didn't feel they had to fall in with the "huge boobs out" and "thong with less cloth than an ant's knickers" troop. And this applies to a lot of of those Blades, which as a huge Xenoblade fan is bordering on tragic. :(
I don't deny it, though for me '90s anime is more like this
Not that... thing. Anyway, you said it, boss: /OT.
Indeed it is, official character art. After all, what can you expect when they let certain artists do whatever they want without, I suppose, giving them any kind of limitation? Quite simply, the only solution was to hire someone else.
Just to help clarify, a character being attractive to the audience is totally apart from their design/treatment being sexualized.
- Status