Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. S5 |OT| Six Seasons and a Seventh

CallMeShaft said:

I was just re-watching this, and noticed a particular part of the episode that kinda explains what was different with this timeline. I know some have had a difficult time trying to decipher what exactly changed the events in time.

During the scene where Daisy gives off control of Shield to Mack, Coulson makes an appearance and states that Yo-Yo "didn't go through that for nothing", which confirms that Yo-Yo debating about letting Coulson die is the reason that he sneaks the centipede serum into Daisy's gauntlets instead of taking it himself. He even hands Daisy the gauntlets right after saying that. So the difference is that Yo-Yo convinced Coulson to not take it because he believes it'll doom humanity, so he hides them on Daisy with the expectation that she uses it. It was not because a character injected it into him when he was unconscious or anything like that.


Also, while Mack really ticked me off this season with how he behaved with the whole Ruby situation, his actor (Henry Simmons) killed it in the scene where Fitz dies. Of course he plays second fiddle to Ian (the best actor on the show bar none), but it's not easy to portray the level of sadness that Mack had during that moment, while simultaneously acting as if nothing is wrong as to not worry Fitz. It's a fine line and Henry played it perfectly.


I'm going to miss this show a hell of a lot for the next year, but look forward to being a part of the re-watch group here. I also have a couple groups on Youtube who I've been watching react to season 1, and it's nice to re-live it a bit through their eyes.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Good analysis. That was one part of the episode that left me wondering right after it finished - I wasn't sure exactly where the timeline shifted. Obviously, the serum being in Daisy's gauntlet but how did that action get initiated? Thanks for explaining.

Fitz's death scene was tough - I had not even given a thought to the frozen Fitz still in space so this was a pretty devastating scene. Very well done and the acting was off the charts, as you said.

This is the first AoS season finale I watched close to the premiere date (day after on Hulu)... what an experience. Quite a bit different than just binging everything on Netflix. It's really been a pleasure watching this season with all of you and reading through the thoughts immediately after.

Looking forward to season 6!

Keyser S said:

It felt more anime than Matrix - but the best parts of the Matrix were influenced by anime I guess. Launching Talbot into space of a Vegeta move.

I think I'd trust this VFX team and writers with live-action Dragonball (with a big budget - x10 what we have now probably). They would do good work.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

After some thought I think these would be my season rankings: 4, 2, (1 and 5 tied), 3. If we were to break it up like people sometimes do into arcs it would look a little different (particularly 3 and 5), but it looks mostly fine as it.

I really liked the first half of season 5. It was interesting to move forward through the arc and I really liked the flashbacks slowly revealing what happened to the team in aftermath of the bad timeline and how humans came to be in this state. Dead Yoyo was heartbreaking. Hunter breaking Fitz out was great.

The back of the season was pretty uneven for me. I enjoyed the callbacks to previous seasons. I really wanted to like Hale, and I did like her flashbacks to her career in Hydra, but that whole side of the storyline just wasn't interesting to me. Ruby was corny, even by comic book TV standards, and the conflict from her death was understandable at the root level I guess but overall wasn't all that compelling. The Confederacy is pretty meh. I liked where they ultimately ended up in the season but the journey was pretty rocky.

However, "The Devil Complex" is the best episode of the season and one of the great moments I've seen on TV in a while. And that's with a fairly forgettable B plot with Coulson and Hale. The nightmare rift seemed like filler in previous episodes, but it was worth it to set up Fitz letting the Doctor out. It's such a betrayal and cuts to the core of the show and the team. Iain is predictably fantastic playing Fitz and his completely damaged mind, but Liz, Chloe and Jeff are great here, too. One of the real high points of the entire series.

yoo if the Fox deal goes through, we could get AoS S6 next summer that leads into a reboot: Agents of SWORD on Disney's streaming channel

So question, in the video we see of Daisy walking away from the quinjet in the timeline where the earth cracks, does she still look back and yell at the plane or just walk off?

If so, I wonder what she is saying to the quinjet in that timeline.

H.Cornerstone said:

So question, in the video we see of Daisy walking away from the quinjet in the timeline where the earth cracks, does she still look back and yell at the plane or just walk off?

If so, I wonder what she is saying to the quinjet in that timeline.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I assume it's the same.
The only difference here being that Coulson didn't leave her with the syringe in the OG.

Magwik said:

The only difference here being that Coulson didn't leave her with the syringe in the OG.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Hmm, come to think of it, why didn't he do that in other iterations of the loop, though? What have they done differently this time that they didn't try in who-knows-how-many previous iterations? I'm not sure this really makes sense...

TheDanimal said:

With getting frozen Fitz back, we will also probably get Enoch back too!

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Hype

Auros01 said:

Good analysis. That was one part of the episode that left me wondering right after it finished - I wasn't sure exactly where the timeline shifted. Obviously, the serum being in Daisy's gauntlet but how did that action get initiated? Thanks for explaining.

Fitz's death scene was tough - I had not even given a thought to the frozen Fitz still in space so this was a pretty devastating scene. Very well done and the acting was off the charts, as you said.

This is the first AoS season finale I watched close to the premiere date (day after on Hulu)... what an experience. Quite a bit different than just binging everything on Netflix. It's really been a pleasure watching this season with all of you and reading through the thoughts immediately after.

Looking forward to season 6!

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

:)

BorganXI said:

SHIELD plotlines always move quickly, so I expect Fitz to be resolved in one or two episodes before some new threat emerges.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I love that about this show. Stuff is always happening.

Holy shit. Something just gave "The Gift" a massive contender for my favorite finale of all time.

Lotus said:

I never got why people split up seasons for their rankings, it's all or nothing for me.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I dislike this as well. Seasons tell an entire story throughout the entire thing. To break it up, and say that these 11 episodes of a set of 22 are better than these 22, is disingenuous as a whole to the medium. It also doesn't help that S4 was told in a pod format, which means people can pick the pod they prefer and put it above another season. It's upsetting and ruins criticism and discussion as a whole.

Tathanen said:

Yeah but why didn't Coulson take the serum this time? We've been led to believe that "Coulson being saved," is what leads to the destruction of the world, presumably future Yo Yo was referring to the exchange where they had to choose between saving Coulson and killing Graviton. And in her timeline, they save him, and then he and Daisy encounter Talbot together or whatever and one way or another they lose and he blows everyone up. The fine details there aren't super important. All we know is that Yo Yo watches the world end, and thinks "if we had used the serum to kill Graviton this wouldn't have happened."

So what's the actual thing that changed? Is it really just "Coulson chose not to take it?" If so, why? We've been led to believe that this shit has been looping a few times already, right? What did Yo Yo do differently this time that she didn't do previous times? What was the chain reaction that resulted in Coulson making that choice, when he didn't up until now?

I just wish they had been more explicit about the predicating event, since "how do we break the loop" was such a fundamentally huge question all season long.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I like that it's vague, but I also don't think it really is. If I recall correctly, she said something changed right after Polly got back and then cut to Daisy and Talbot, yeah? So, that would indicate that something during that specific clash changed from the original outcome:

1) Daisy originally did not have the syringe for a number of reasons (Coulson was injected, it got left it back at the Lighthouse, it got left it on the Zephyr, broke it, etc.), and Talbot absorbed her
2) Daisy originally did not have the syringe for a number of reasons, and Talbot killed her
3) Daisy had the syringe, but it broke and Talbot absorbed her
4) Daisy had the syringe, but it broke and Talbot killed her
5) Daisy had the syringe and injected Talbot with it, causing an explosion
6) Daisy had the syringe and injected Talbot with it, but it didn't affect him and he absorbed her
7) Daisy had the syringe and injected Talbot with it, but it didn't affect him and he killed her

My guess is that either one or two happened, one being the most likely (someone posted earlier that the combination of Talbot's gravitonium powers plus Daisy's quake powers caused the planet to crack). Primarily because when Robin says it, it is immediately in that moment that we see Daisy find the syringe. Now, there are other things that could have happened as well, but my bet is on that.

adrem007 said:

Maybe that's what irks me, Mack for the last few eps was in the wrong re:Ruby

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

We

Don't

Know

That


We literally do not know what would have happened had Ruby been saved because we don't know every combination of events that lead to the end of the world, let alone every single combination of events from each moment. For all we know, saving Ruby would have avoided this whole thing. Ruby and Hale could have been redeemed, the Confederacy defeated, and Talbot may never have come to power. What we do know is that this particular combination of events lead to a very happy ending.

BKatastrophe said:

We

Don't

Know

That


We literally do not know what would have happened had Ruby been saved because we don't know every combination of events that lead to the end of the world, let alone every single combination of events from each moment.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Yes, we also don't know if the team saying fuck it and disbanding wouldn't somehow lead to happiest ending ever. But chances are it wouldn't and there is no reason to assume it's the better solution, just like there is no reason to take a chance with Ruby

Uh, so, what is the status of Deke? He wasn't in the last few scenes. I might have rewatch it.

Scarlet Death said:

Uh, so, what is the status of Deke? He wasn't in the last few scenes. I might have rewatch it.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

He told Daisy he was leaving the Lighthouse because if he was going to blink out of existence soon, he wanted to see the world some more first.

So I've been thinking back about why the gang was taken by Enoch to prevent the extinction level event. So how did bringing them to the future prevent the extinction level event from happening, assuming Enoch meant Talbot blowing up the Earth.

entrydenied said:

So I've been thinking back about why the gang was taken by Enoch to prevent the extinction level event. So how did bringing them to the future prevent the extinction level event from happening, assuming Enoch meant Talbot blowing up the Earth.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

That's pretty much all the last page has been discussing...?

The whole situation started because Robin's drawings turned out to be prophetic, and Enoch somehow realized this enough to act on it, attempting to engineer the situation in a way to fix it.

Daisy was always the key, because her powers combined with gravitonium are what breaks the world.

Although we never see it play out, we have to assume a situation that doesn't involve time travel at all would have come to the same result. Without the time jump, Coulson would not have lived long enough to become part of the conflict, and with everyone taken to jail at the diner like they expected they would have not been in a position to stop Hale's ambitions.

adrem007 said:

Yes, we also don't know if the team saying fuck it and disbanding wouldn't somehow lead to happiest ending ever. But chances are it wouldn't and there is no reason to assume it's the better solution, just like there is no reason to take a chance with Ruby

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

My point is that we can't say Mack was wrong if he was never put into the situation to be wrong in the first place. We don't know that Ruby would've gone psycho. She and Hale could have been redeemed.

The only way we'd know if Mack was wrong is if they had saved Ruby, and she turned on them. That's my point and has been my point since the argument started episodes ago.

BKatastrophe said:

My point is that we can't say Mack was wrong if he was never put into the situation to be wrong in the first place. We don't know that Ruby would've gone psycho. She and Hale could have been redeemed.

The only way we'd know if Mack was wrong is if they had saved Ruby, and she turned on them. That's my point and has been my point since the argument started episodes ago.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Your argument is basically that one can't be wrong because there is a possibility that things could always turn out worse. I don't agree with that

I am not sure I like the idea of having Frozen Fitz still out there.... Once they changed the future, then he should've disappeared because they created a new timeline, and the frozen fitz died in the rubble in Chicago...

I base all my time travel theories on Back to the Future...

- Shield gets taken to the future by Enoch
- Fitz is left behind
- Fitz freezes himself with help from enoch and waits until 2090 to wake up to help team
- Team makes it back to present day lighthouse (this should've been a paradox unless they come back after Fitz is already frozen)
- Team successfully changes the future, which should mean that Fitz did not need to freeze himself with help from enoch, and therefore that timeline should erase itself and the Fitz that we see die is the one and only Fitz.

Unless I missing something, I think Fitz should be dead....


Now, lets move onto Coulson..... Wouldn't it be a trip if in (putting this behind a spoiler wall, just in case)

A4 Rumors

Mod Edit: Please label spoilers that are outside the thread topic

Parisi said:

Now, lets move onto Coulson..... Wouldn't it be a trip if in (putting this behind a spoiler wall, just in case)

Spoiler

Avengers 4 when Tony Stark and the others go back in time to around the first Avengers movie, they fit in some time to save Coulson from getting speared by Loki, and that is how they can keep him on Shield, since it does not premiere until next summer, after the movie will have been out for a few weeks...

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I swear, there needs to be a stickied thread on how spoiler tags work.

You should be labeling that as "Avengers 4 set photo spoilers." No one has any reason to know that's what the spoiler tag will be about.

Just a reminder that the group rewatch is starting this week! Don't forget to post any impressions to the group watch thread!

I don't see why Fitz traveling back in time would erase his past self, just as the group traveling to the future didn't erase future Yo-Yo. The thing with time travel stories is that you just can't base all the rules defined in another story, because it's so open ended that you can't apply a universal set of rules to it. (The series lampshades this a whole lot, with the Fitz and Simmons arguments on whether time is unchanging or if their actions can influence outcomes.)

ZeoVGM said:

I swear, there needs to be a stickied thread on how spoiler tags work.

You should be labeling that as "Avengers 4 set photo spoilers." No one has any reason to know that's what the spoiler tag will be about.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I respect your opinion...

BKatastrophe said:

My point is that we can't say Mack was wrong if he was never put into the situation to be wrong in the first place. We don't know that Ruby would've gone psycho. She and Hale could have been redeemed.

The only way we'd know if Mack was wrong is if they had saved Ruby, and she turned on them. That's my point and has been my point since the argument started episodes ago.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Well, Enoch brought them to the future because of an extinction level event. So, as another poster above points out, if he doesn't take them to the future, Hale gets them. I'm going to assume that means Ruby gets the gravitonium goes nuts and blows the world apart. So.....

I mean, she cut off Yoyo's arms for fun.

adrem007 said:

Your argument is basically that one can't be wrong because there is a possibility that things could always turn out worse. I don't agree with that

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

My argument is that Mack isn't wrong for thinking that there was a better option that wasn't just killing Ruby. Just because YoYo ended up right doesn't mean Mack was proven wrong.

Parisi said:

I respect your opinion...

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

That's... not an opinion. I'm stating, factually, how spoiler tags are supposed to work.

You need to let people know what the spoiler tag is regarding. Otherwise, the spoiler tag is pointless. There are people in this thread who are still trying to avoid IW spoilers so I imagine Avengers 4 is even worse.

Not sure why you replied like that instead of just editing your post to fix the mistake.

If what I read is a real spoiler based on set pics and not just a random theory about IW4 I'm not happy. Please edit your post to give fair warning if that's the case Parisi

Parisi said:

I am not sure I like the idea of having Frozen Fitz still out there.... Once they changed the future, then he should've disappeared because they created a new timeline, and the frozen fitz died in the rubble in Chicago...

I base all my time travel theories on Back to the Future...

- Shield gets taken to the future by Enoch
- Fitz is left behind
- Fitz freezes himself with help from enoch and waits until 2090 to wake up to help team
- Team makes it back to present day lighthouse (this should've been a paradox unless they come back after Fitz is already frozen)
- Team successfully changes the future, which should mean that Fitz did not need to freeze himself with help from enoch, and therefore that timeline should erase itself and the Fitz that we see die is the one and only Fitz.

Unless I missing something, I think Fitz should be dead....


Now, lets move onto Coulson..... Wouldn't it be a trip if in (putting this behind a spoiler wall, just in case)

Spoiler

Avengers 4 when Tony Stark and the others go back in time to around the first Avengers movie, they fit in some time to save Coulson from getting speared by Loki, and that is how they can keep him on Shield, since it does not premiere until next summer, after the movie will have been out for a few weeks...

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

That logic makes no sense, Past-Fitz is already frozen in space by the last episode and the future is changed after he gets frozen, not before, so if anything is going to disappear because they fix the future, it's Future-Fitz's dead body.

But, by that logic, everyone else on the team would also vanish unless there was a way for them to get back in the now non-existent future they went to.

Parisi said:

I respect your opinion...

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Then edit your spoiler tag to indicate it's based on set photos.

I still kinda want to know what was the catalyst for the timeline changing. What exactly made it so that a)Fitz and May saved Polly and Mack and b) Coulson gave the syringe to Quake and what made her use it...

Parisi said:

I am not sure I like the idea of having Frozen Fitz still out there.... Once they changed the future, then he should've disappeared because they created a new timeline, and the frozen fitz died in the rubble in Chicago...

I base all my time travel theories on Back to the Future...

- Shield gets taken to the future by Enoch
- Fitz is left behind
- Fitz freezes himself with help from enoch and waits until 2090 to wake up to help team
- Team makes it back to present day lighthouse (this should've been a paradox unless they come back after Fitz is already frozen)
- Team successfully changes the future, which should mean that Fitz did not need to freeze himself with help from enoch, and therefore that timeline should erase itself and the Fitz that we see die is the one and only Fitz.

Unless I missing something, I think Fitz should be dead....

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

You are missing something: They went back in time after Fitz was already frozen. This is explicit.

Slayven said:

I think in the OG time line Talbot absorbed Quake and destroyed the world, in this new one the juice gave Quake enough power to fight him off

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

That's not what's in question. The question has been, how did events change that delivered the serum to Daisy at the moment she needed it.

This is mainly why I think they needed more than an hour to resolve this. A lot of the details are just glossed over and things turned out OK because they always do in the end.

https://decider.com/2018/05/22/agents-of-shield-season-5-netflix-release-date/

The fifth installment of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. will arrive on Netflix on Sunday, June 17, 2018

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

BrokenFiction said:

https://decider.com/2018/05/22/agents-of-shield-season-5-netflix-release-date/

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

This is a little unusual right? I thought they normally didn't put out a season until right before the next one started. There's a chance if I knew it would be up this fast I would have waited so I could binge it, haha.

abrack said:

This is a little unusual right? I thought they normally didn't put out a season until right before the next one started. There's a chance if I knew it would be up this fast I would have waited so I could binge it, haha.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Apparently not. Quick Googling tells me Season 4 was available in June as well. I could be wrong though; I never heard of the site I found reporting it.

abrack said:

This is a little unusual right? I thought they normally didn't put out a season until right before the next one started. There's a chance if I knew it would be up this fast I would have waited so I could binge it, haha.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Nah, it comes out pretty quick, at least for AoS

Ok, this finally hit me... The new guy we hired to run the front desk looks just like Deke! He even acts like him and his super nice and wide eyed appeal. It's crazy, haha.

StarCreator said:

Apparently not. Quick Googling tells me Season 4 was available in June as well. I could be wrong though; I never heard of the site I found reporting it.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

They've been putting them up there quick since like, S2.

ZeoVGM said:

I swear, there needs to be a stickied thread on how spoiler tags work.

You should be labeling that as "Avengers 4 set photo spoilers." No one has any reason to know that's what the spoiler tag will be about.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Shit..... Was that an actual Avengers spoiler for the next movie then? For shame man :|

People really need to be better with spoiler tags.

StarCreator said:

That's not what's in question. The question has been, how did events change that delivered the serum to Daisy at the moment she needed it.

This is mainly why I think they needed more than an hour to resolve this. A lot of the details are just glossed over and things turned out OK because they always do in the end.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I honestly think it's fine. We know for sure that Coulson was the deciding factor. Robin states he puts the pieces together, and they bring up the possibility of that being the team. Future YoYo states that they have to let Coulson die. My guess, and this is just a guess, is that Daisy passing off the torch to Mack is what did it. It brought the team together in a way that made them want to stay together as not only a team, but a family. That's the big factor. Coulson also knowing he was supposed to die, according to YoYo, was almost certainly a difference from the prior timeline and that caused him to give Daisy the serum. Also, it's very possible that Mack made the decision to focus the majority efforts on saving people as opposed to attacking Talbot, whereas in the previous timelines that may not have happened.

Like I said, I like the vagueness.

FUNKNOWN iXi said:

Shit..... Was that an actual Avengers spoiler for the next movie then? For shame man :|

People really need to be better with spoiler tags.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Yes, the set photos implies what he said. (Not the Coulson part, obviously.)

No one knows the exact context yet though.

And Parisi has for some reason still not edited it.

Parisi said:

Now, lets move onto Coulson..... Wouldn't it be a trip if in (putting this behind a spoiler wall, just in case)

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Did... did you just post Avengers 4 spoilers so casually without warning? What the frack dude? Edit your shit. I didn't want to read that.

Fucking hell... if it's a spoiler then ZeoVGM is right, you need to learn how to use spoiler tags.

Man I'm having a hard time seeing where I'd put S5 compared to the rest. It's so much more high concept than the rest. It just feels so different. There's like, zero spy shit. It's all high sci-fi

Mariolee said:

You saying there ain't time to film this dude and send it online?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

In the bad timeline, Internet is probably down a few minutes later when the earth is destroyed, so the people that took shelter in the lighthouse only have the video feed stored locally there, with Quake going out of the plane

It looks like they're finally putting season 4 out on blu ray. Right now it's up for preorder on Amazon UK:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Marvels-Agents-S-H-I-L-D-S4/dp/B07CZVP64N/



Releases July 2nd.

No US release. Still waiting on season 3 here. :(

ZeoVGM said:

No US release. Still waiting on season 3 here. :(

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I ended up just importing from Amazon UK, it's region free. Just preordered S4 from there as well.

Remember how Garrett made Ward shoot Buddy? Just like Hale and Ruby killed their dogs? And Garrett said he wasn't all in on Hydra...

Look at my fine new Season 4 avatar. Some of the finest comic book show ever.

Did we ever start up our rewatch of the show guys? Or did we just forget about it?

Pachimari said:

Look at my fine new Season 4 avatar. Some of the finest comic book show ever.

Did we ever start up our rewatch of the show guys? Or did we just forget about it?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Rewatch is on!

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ma...tch-ot-the-long-road-to-untitled-movie.43830/

Tetsujin said:

Rewatch is on!

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ma...tch-ot-the-long-road-to-untitled-movie.43830/

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Wow, completely missed this, and all this time I had just been waiting for us to start. Thanks for showing me the way Tetaujin! :)

Looks like Chloe got a fairly serious injury on the set of a movie. The delay for the premiere (and I assume start of filming) for Season 6 might be a good thing.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BjvA4N1AGaW/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=2oell7jlptt2