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Xenon

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,266
"Man up" exemplifies all of that depending on context and historical usage. Usually, it's used when men are displaying sadness. Boys don't cry, remember? You better man up and stop crying. It's a term that makes men bottle up their emotions which gets displayed in unhealthy and sometimes violent ways.

It may be used by, but the term itself is more about being the model man, so these people have a fucked view of what that is. We want remove that, not a positive reaffirmation for men. Most of the use for me is when with a group of male friends trying to push someone to something positive. Like going to talk to that girl they have been talking about, or freaking quit being so lazy and play some defense. If I was in mixed company or at work I'd most likely use step up. But the former is more personal and a group bonding thing.

The second part about toxic is just bullshit. What are some examples of toxic being used in a bad way? Any term can be used in a bad way, should we remove all words?

The point of this conversation is the example. People want to label the term toxic because it can be and remove it, even though it has value. I find that toxic.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,200
It may be used by, but the term itself is more about being the model man, so these people have a fucked view of what that is. We want remove that, not a positive reaffirmation for men. Most of the use for me is when with a group of male friends trying to push someone to something positive. Like going to talk to that girl they have been talking about, or freaking quit being so lazy and play some defense. If I was in mixed company or at work I'd most likely use step up. But the former is more personal and a group bonding thing.

The point of this conversation is the example. People want to label the term toxic because it can be and remove it, even though it has value. I find that toxic.
The fact that you know to self-censor yourself means that on some level you understand that the term is problematic, otherwise you'd have no problem telling women to man up.
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237
I mean, even if somehow you could nebulously "enforce" monogamy, but, like, harder, how exactly would that make these peeps any less repulsive and undesirable?
The only thing I can think of is if people were forced legally or socially to remain with the first person they have sex with. Any angle you come at enforced monogamy, you see that it's a stupid suggestion.

It may be used by, but the term itself is more about being the model man, so these people have a fucked view of what that is. We want remove that, not a positive reaffirmation for men. Most of the use for me is when with a group of male friends trying to push someone to something positive. Like going to talk to that girl they have been talking about, or freaking quit being so lazy and play some defense. If I was in mixed company or at work I'd most likely use step up. But the former is more personal and a group bonding thing.



The point of this conversation is the example. People want to label the term toxic because it can be and remove it, even though it has value. I find that toxic.
Many people use man up in totally unhealthy ways like the crying example.

I don't think it has value at all. Any way a man can be good, a woman can be good as well. If you're telling a guy to be a good person, tell them to be a good person. Because man up has been used in insidious ways that have fucked men and women up. That's why it's toxic. It's not just because it's a term I like. There are real life consequences.
 

Deleted member 17092

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
20,360
It's socially enforced. There is still a stigma surrounding cheating. People are still weird about polyamorous relationships. Legally, only marriage between two people is recognized. Any additional marriages are null.

And monogamy was the solution to polygyny, the system that let rich men monopolize women. We do not have polygyny currently.

And Peterson said socially enforced monogamy in his clarification, but, again, monogamy isn't the solution because we already socially enforce monogamy.

I think having multiple casual partners is pretty common actually, and isn't really being shunned outside of religious conservatives and now these incels. Lots of people aren't in committed relationships and have multiple sexual partners. There are a lot of polyamorous types you could say but they don't actually subscribe themselves to that community.
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
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Oct 28, 2017
9,237
I think having multiple casual partners is pretty common actually, and isn't really being shunned outside of religious conservatives and now these incels. Lots of people aren't in committed relationships and have multiple sexual partners. There are a lot of polyamorous types you could say but they don't actually subscribe themselves to that community.
But again, enforced monogamy was a solution to polygyny, not polyamory. It was the monopolization of women by men that seemingly caused men to be violent in ancient times, not because women can have different lovers.
 

Deleted member 18407

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
3,607
It may be used by, but the term itself is more about being the model man, so these people have a fucked view of what that is. We want remove that, not a positive reaffirmation for men. Most of the use for me is when with a group of male friends trying to push someone to something positive. Like going to talk to that girl they have been talking about, or freaking quit being so lazy and play some defense. If I was in mixed company or at work I'd most likely use step up. But the former is more personal and a group bonding thing.



The point of this conversation is the example. People want to label the term toxic because it can be and remove it, even though it has value. I find that toxic.

It maybe useful in your group but even you say you'd use a different term in mixed company because of how easily it can be misconstrued. Seems like you can recognize the term has issues but you don't want to admit it.
 

Xenon

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,266
The fact that you know to self-censor yourself means that on some level you understand that the term is problematic, otherwise you'd have no problem telling women to man up.

I'm not censoring anything when in mixed company. As far as using it with just men in the office, I don't think it's professional. That doesn't mean it's toxic. There is a huge difference there.
 

RounD

Member
Oct 29, 2017
260
So I just listened to the Munk debate. My take away was that the Pro side went with Peterson is a angry white man and that he thinks woman shouldnt be allowed to wear make up in the work place, it was in a vice interview, google it.

But really only Stephen Fry made the debate worth listening to and even then he didnt get to say much.
 

BrucCLea13k87

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,950
FFS I look this asshole up on YouTube and now my feed has become inundated with his ridiculous videos with descriptions like "Brilliant Peterson rips apart SJW feminist argument." FML
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
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Oct 28, 2017
9,237
So I just listened to the Munk debate. My take away was that the Pro side went with Peterson is a angry white man and that he thinks woman shouldnt be allowed to wear make up in the work place, it was in a vice interview, google it.

But really only Stephen Fry made the debate worth listening to and even then he didnt get to say much.
Peterson went as far as calling women who complain about sexual harassment yet wear makeup hypocrites.

FFS I look this asshole up on YouTube and now my feed has become inundated with his ridiculous videos with descriptions like "Brilliant Peterson rips apart SJW feminist argument." FML

Tell me about it. I would open them in incognito windows, but sometimes I search my history for them.
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237
Now buy my self help book, the "Norwegian way to success!".

A clean room is like a well fermented fish, it takes some work and patience but in the end you can smell the success of hard work.
Can't wait to watch hundreds of hours of you basically saying cliche advice with subtle attacks against those damned SJWs sprinkled in.

Depends if you go into the conversation expecting to learn yourself.
So you didn't expect to learn anything? I expected to learn something and I did.
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237
Maybe he means in a Peterson sense
The vague mysteries of the Peterson.

Peterson cannot be known. You can only feel the pinch of his pincer claws. You feel the effects of Peterson, but to know Him? Impossible. His Acolytes only catch a glimpse of His being and interpret His will for those who haven't the required serotonin levels. You may ask an Acolyte if Peterson is atheist or Christian and they will wisely answer, "yes." You may want clarification on his use of Cultural Marxism and you will be offered the Holomodor.

Such is the Precision of Peterson.
 

Dehnus

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,900
Can't wait to watch hundreds of hours of you basically saying cliche advice with subtle attacks against those damned SJWs sprinkled in.
SJW's are like lemmings meeting a wolverine, they screach on the top of their lungs about rights, giving themselves heart attacks while doing so, but they have little substance. The true Norwegian is like the Wolverine, he watches the Lemming screach himself to death, before feasting on his less manly, less energetic competitor for national resources. And then he mates with the beautiful Elf Maiden of the Misty Fjørd rather than being forced to march in marxist droves with the other lemmings in service of the Feminist Swamp Troll of Northern Wastelands near Sweden.

Are you a Lemming or a Wolverine? You are neither, you are a human viking from Norway! The top competitor for the natural resources.

(something like this XD? )
 

Sub Boss

Banned
Nov 14, 2017
13,441
One day he will publish the Jordan Peterson Dictionary and its going to sell millions to both critics and lobsters alike
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237
SJW's are like lemmings meeting a wolverine, they screach on the top of their lungs about rights, giving themselves heart attacks while doing so, but they have little substance. The true Norwegian is like the Wolverine, he watches the Lemming screach himself to death, before feasting on his less manly, less energetic competitor for national resources. And then he mates with the beautiful Elf Maiden of the Misty Fjørd rather than being forced to march in marxist droves with the other lemmings in service of the Feminist Swamp Troll of Northern Wastelands near Sweden.

Are you a Lemming or a Wolverine? You are neither, you are a human viking from Norway! The top competitor for the natural resources.

(something like this XD? )
Man, if Peterson started to talk about Vikings and shit, well, he'd be courting a very specific group. Not that he isn't doing so already.

One day he will publish the Jordan Peterson Dictionary and its going to sell millions to both critics and lobsters alike
One word will have hundreds of different definitions because he is P R E C I S E
 

Dehnus

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,900
Man, if Peterson started to talk about Vikings and shit, well, he'd be courting a very specific group. Not that he isn't doing so already.

Well then he can act really obtuse about not being a "NAZI" XD.

Besides, I just think the man is a fraud that wants to scam poor sods out of money (outside of catering to right wing extremists).
 
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Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237
Well then he can act really obtuse about not being a "NAZI" XD.

Besides, I just think the mane is a fraud that wants to scam poor sods out of money (outside of catering to right wing extremists).
I flip back and forth on whether or not he's a charlatan or not. I'm leaning in the direction of he actually believes in all of this shit, but that still leaves room for exploitation.
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237

Veggen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,246
Well, since he doesn't provide context, it means whatever you think it means. For me, I'm going to give it the worst reading especially in light of enforced monogamy. I think he wants people to be abstinent.
Just wait until he takes over North America after gathering incels into shipping containers ala Eden of the East. He probably sees himself as a future champion for their cause.
 
Nov 14, 2017
2,332
It's like 0.5%, and largely concentrated within Mongolia and surrounding regions.

Also he was a genocidal conqueror.

Ignore me if your post was sarcastic lol.
I thought the part where I said people born before him were descended from him gave it away! That is a slightly lower percentage than I would've thought based on comedy bits and clickbait articles, but the concentration aspect certainly makes sense.
 

Pyramid Head

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,839
Has anyone seen the movie 'The Lobster's with Colin Farrell? It's set in a dystopian near-future where forced monogamy is a thing. I just thought that was funny.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,808
For some reason I'm reading The Man who Laugh from Hugo (because I like unfinished trilogy) and seeing someone as capable as Hugo casually defend insane positions in this book is enlightening.
It's not because the form is awesome that you can't decipher that the content is not full of shit.
I think for some people they have this issue with Peterson in that they really like the form.

God, he really is this century's Freud, huh
Nah, Freud was actually precise in his speech.
 
Nov 27, 2017
680
I watched that debate show with Stephen fry and Peterson. I definitely agreed with Peterson and Fry over the other two. Was really hard to watch though.
 

Spuck-

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
996
Peterson is a complete grifter, so credit to him for getting paid for writing an overly wordy, bad self help book. Equally boo to him for enabling the incel army and their persecution complex because women won't submit to them.

Overall, fuck him.
 

Xenon

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,266
Have you ever watched this video about "man up"?


"Yeah, so be a real man like me. Right ladies." nod-wink lol

This is just a bunch of talking points in poetry form. I don't disagree with everything he says but that doesn't make him less of a tool. If you want to broaden the concept and/or remove the limitations of masculinity good for you. Its a worthy cause and I encourage it. But if you then turn around and try to say you're a better person because of it, fuck you.





 

raterpillar

Banned
Nov 12, 2017
1,393
"Yeah, so be a real man like me. Right ladies." nod-wink lol
I love arguments like this. Deep down everyone must be as cynical as you are! That way you can rationalise your own shit behaviour and avoid any opportunity for self-betterment!
You're supposed to see the poverty of this attitude when you're 14.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,178
UK
"Yeah, so be a real man like me. Right ladies." nod-wink lol

This is just a bunch of talking points in poetry form. I don't disagree with everything he says but that doesn't make him less of a tool. If you want to broaden the concept and/or remove the limitations of masculinity good for you. Its a worthy cause and I encourage it. But if you then turn around and try to say you're a better person because of it, fuck you.




I'm not even sure how you see that message from it. He's not saying he's a better man at all. Just want a broader range of masculinity. Chill.
 

Ebullientprism

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,529




I don't see how you can see what Peterson says and then claim that he isn't "all that right."


I dont think I could ever understand the mentality here. Lets just go ahead and assume that there is a top secret team on Youtube that is subtly creating content that will move women towards STEM fields. Ok? Even if I buy into that conspiracy, how is this a bad thing?

Best case scenario some kid discovers an interest they never had. Goes on to do amazing things with their life. Worst case scenario, some else closes out a video they dont like and that you never have to watch.
 
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